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| The 42-year-old Bills offensive coordinator is “clearly the favorite” to become the next Giants head coach, according to someone familiar with the process. He has been the favorite to many all along, given his relationship with new Giants GM Joe Schoen and the fact that Daboll has other supporters inside the organization, too. ... That doesn’t mean Daboll is a lock to get the job, though. There is still strong support for former Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who many believe is the top choice of co-owner John Mara. Flores and Schoen don’t have a history together, though they have spoken in the last few weeks, according to sources. So Flores still has his chance to stake his claim to the job. |
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In comment 15574443 One Man Thrill Ride said:
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Or videos detailing their schematic skill? Weighing the pro's and con's of these two desirable candidates who will have multiple opportunities at head coaching vacancies? Their teams played each other 6 times in the last three years, and those outcomes might inform an opinion.
But instead of talking about sports and the joys of the game, somehow this conversation gets steered repeatedly into a conspiracy theorist narrative. Why is that?
(not singling you out, Mr. Tuff1, just using your post as.a jumping off point to redirect the conversation into something more productive)
There has been plenty of conversations discussing Daboll's offensive approach. Just because you missed them doesn't mean they don't exist. And there has been plenty of conversations about the work Flores did in Miami with a limited QB.
And here is what Buffalo vs Miami has revealed the last four years - Buffalo has Josh Allen and Miami doesn't. Buffalo has owned Miami with Allen - 7-1 record, 21/5 TD/INT, 63% completion %, 7.8 YPA, 4 rushing TDs. He's a Hall of Fame QB who is becoming impossible to defend.
This isn't a conspiracy. It's questioning Mara's role in the hiring process of a HC; and if he's already contradicted his words when he said the GM was in charge in hiring the HC.
Sometimes getting out of the Kool Aid line is a very healthy thing...
Ahhh, I must have missed those detailed conversations. Unfortunately, the Thrill Ride, an intellectual of international repute, cannot patrol BBI for 23 hours a day and post on every thread. Just this afternoon, the line for Kool Aid was unusually slow. Some say it's a supply chain issue, but others speculate the pigheaded owner of the Kool Aid company is micro-managing the water::sugar ratios and ruining the beloved family business.
bw, you are an impressive football savant flourishing amidst a sea of degeneracy. To grind the tape on all eight of those MIA-BUF games in the brief 31 minutes between our posts. Peak efficiency -- is this how you elegantly skate through life's uncertainties?
Those are some nice composite stats from Josh A., all the more impressive when you consider he was evidently playing 1 vs. 11.
Do me this kindness. When you take a break from taking a break and find a spare moment, perhaps summarize the attitudes of the Daboll's philosophy on offense. I'd like to know what insights those elite, high-level conversations produced.
Do you think Daboll's blending of zone and gap scheme concepts might be too ambitious in year 1 of a rebuild? Do we have the existing personnel to run power, counter, etc.? What about the pass game? Is the preponderance of motion, jet motion, orbit motion, etc. coupled with a high rate of play action stressing defenses in ways that create opportunities for the QB? How might Daboll shape an offense with a differently skilled QB?
In the games you scouted, how did Flores attempt to stymie this varied attack? Did he lean on his predilection for cover-0 and employ primarily five-man fronts? Did the Bills pre-snap tactics create confusion for the force defenders and alley defenders? Did they try pattern match zone concepts, knowing an aggressive man-heavy approach would leave them susceptible to scrambles by an athletic QB? What adjustments did Flores make, game over game, in the face of the losing streak?
Thanks for the offering to help. Looking forward to your response. I think both these coaches could do well here!
This is one hell of a buzzword salad.
It's not like hiring Urban Meyer.
I know right? Fantastique!
:-)
Why would the Giants not be extremely interested in having Flores coach the team? Why would Joe Schoen not want to seriously consider him - perhaps even give him the job?
I'll take someone who was on the trajectory of becoming a really nice head coach over an unproven coordinator. I hope Daboll will be awesome. But I want Flores to coach this team.
The Dolphins fired Flores because they're stupid. Got it.
The Giants have the worst record in the league over the past five years, but they're smart enough to see that the Dolphins were foolish to fire Flores. Got it.
Do you realize how insane your posts get sometimes?
The modern game is largely driven by the QB's performance. Thus, that's why the synopsis of Allen's performance was provided. Sometimes less is more, but just as powerful. Perhaps you need to take another look at those aggregate numbers and let them sink in this time. I would think a man of such "intellectual...international repute" would be able to make the connection.
It's premature to answer your questions about Daboll's offensive approach with NYG - assuming he gets the nod - because we don't know who the QB is going to be. Nothing is getting solved/incorporated until that is answered. So, guessing is an exercise in futility. And, of course, building out a new roster in general.
If Jones is the QB, my guess/hope is Daboll will look to speed up Jones's decision making by getting him on the move more to make one read throws. And find a RB who runs with a more one cut, north-south style. But until we know the constituent parts, it's really not productive.
I am encouraged, however, by the idea that Daboll doesn't run "his system" and force players to fit into it. He's doesn't force square pegs into round holes. His approach seems malleable; and he's very open minded to finding systems that fit the talent. Which is exactly what he did in Buffalo with Allen. That's encouraging.
Frankly, I don't know anything about Flores's defensive game-planning from game-to-game v Buffalo. My guess is you don't either. But it doesn't speak well of Flores approach because Buffalo has basically scored at will, averaging close to 35PPG. I'm certainly all ears if you actually do have a handle on what you write. Alas, I am dubious. But fire away to prove me wrong.
Thanks for the offering to help. Looking forward to your response. I think both these coaches could do well here!
Bravo….Bravo. This is the best post I have seen on here in a very long time. Well done Thrill.
You guys have created the narrative that Schoen might not be able to operate on his own. And if our coaching hire fits your narrative, you’ll still blame Mara every single day until we start playing games.
And if we suck with Flores, you’ll blame Mara.
If we stuck with Daboll, you’ll say “well at least we have a plan. I’m happy.”
All because of stupid theories created by fans who hate John Mara.
Nah - we get it. We just realize that Mara is the owner of the team and that isn’t changing. He was the owner of the team for our last two Super Bowls. So unless he goes brain dead overnight he is still gonna be around and hopefully he just hired the right guy.
I’m not gonna sit here just to bitch and moan about Schoen and the coach and go against every single person that works in the NFL who basically said we made a strong hire. If you guys on BBI want to create narratives based on your own Mara obsession then be my guest. But people throughout the NFL applauded the move.
Whoever the coach ends up being is just another piece to the rebuild and hopefully we make the right hire. Plenty of people here want Flores, and that includes people who have been here forever through the good and the bad.
You guys have created the narrative that Schoen might not be able to operate on his own. And if our coaching hire fits your narrative, you’ll still blame Mara every single day until we start playing games.
And if we suck with Flores, you’ll blame Mara.
If we stuck with Daboll, you’ll say “well at least we have a plan. I’m happy.”
All because of stupid theories created by fans who hate John Mara.
I don't think you are looking at this correctly. The majority of this board WANT Schoen to own and control this hiring process. So, what you are seeing is disappointment, not a need to establish a narrative - IMV.
You guys have created the narrative that Schoen might not be able to operate on his own. And if our coaching hire fits your narrative, you’ll still blame Mara every single day until we start playing games.
And if we suck with Flores, you’ll blame Mara.
If we stuck with Daboll, you’ll say “well at least we have a plan. I’m happy.”
All because of stupid theories created by fans who hate John Mara.
Or, you can just own the fact that you want Flores.
And if Flores is the choice and he's great, bravo. And if he's the choice and he sucks, it'll just be yet another example of Ryan slurping at the Mara fountain, and you'll never eat a bite of crow.
Just own your preference. No more "let's see how it plays out" nonsense. It's a fucking message board. Of course we're going to see how it plays out. Say who you want and deal with being right or wrong.
I'll even jump right in:
My top choice is Brian Daboll.
My second choice is DeMeco Ryans, who doesn't appear to even be a candidate at this time.
My third choice would be Mike McDaniel (also not a candidate at this time), but I don't think we live on a planet where Mara would ever sign off on him as HC, so my revised third choice is Dan Quinn.
I have no problem going on record as saying that I don't want Brian Flores as HC. If he gets hired, I will root for him all the way and would be thrilled to be wrong in my instincts that he's another Judge. But I have no problem putting it out there that I don't want Flores.
I don't think Frazier or Graham make any sense as HC options, and I think both are/were courtesy interviews.
Your turn.
What are you responding to?
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nothing happened.
What are you responding to?
Nevermind, I see BW's post that you were referring to.
For me, hiring Daboll would demonstrate that Schoen led the process and got his man.
Probably not.
'Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left.'
Daboll is the guy I want, but I'm going to have a hard time believing John and Chris will ever step back. I believe Schoen was probably the prescribed hire before the process started.
And that doesn't mean that Schoen or Daboll are bad - I'm happy with both.
I just don't trust John and Chris not to interfere. Like I said above, I think Jones is the big canary in the coal mine because keeping him beyond 2022 doesn't make sense under any scenario - if they do that's Mara, and that's a red alert situation.
2. Daboll. Pretty much for the offense alone I think he’d be great but I don’t necessarily love that he has never actually been a head coach and had to be the voice of a whole team. He seems to be a real laid back kinda dude. Very respected obviously but he has bounced around a ton. I’m sure he can be a good head coach but I’m taking the more proven guy in Flores over him.
3. Pederson. Got a raw deal on Philly. The guy won a super bowl with nick foles as his quarterback and if not for a drop against Saints he might have been on his way to another with Foles as QB. Think he’s a good leader and really good playcaller. Just as good of a play caller as Daboll in my opinion. And he’s got experience in the big games.
4. Ryans - would have liked to have interviewed him but clearly that’s not happening. Seems to be an up and coming leader and he’s putting on a clinic right now in the playoffs against some really good offenses.
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Do all these theories go away? Because it’s clear Daboll is Schoen driven.
For me, hiring Daboll would demonstrate that Schoen led the process and got his man.
Same. And that's why it's going to happen. Outside of Harbaugh (which apparently isn't happening), there are no demonstrably better candidates.
2. Daboll. Pretty much for the offense alone I think he’d be great but I don’t necessarily love that he has never actually been a head coach and had to be the voice of a whole team. He seems to be a real laid back kinda dude. Very respected obviously but he has bounced around a ton. I’m sure he can be a good head coach but I’m taking the more proven guy in Flores over him.
3. Pederson. Got a raw deal on Philly. The guy won a super bowl with nick foles as his quarterback and if not for a drop against Saints he might have been on his way to another with Foles as QB. Think he’s a good leader and really good playcaller. Just as good of a play caller as Daboll in my opinion. And he’s got experience in the big games.
4. Ryans - would have liked to have interviewed him but clearly that’s not happening. Seems to be an up and coming leader and he’s putting on a clinic right now in the playoffs against some really good offenses.
When you actually articulate your thoughts instead of just defending the team at all turns, you have some really interesting views, Ryan.
I genuinely wish you would post more like this instead of the standard "let's wait and see" mantra. Either way, thanks for sharing your POV.
2. Daboll. Pretty much for the offense alone I think he’d be great but I don’t necessarily love that he has never actually been a head coach and had to be the voice of a whole team. He seems to be a real laid back kinda dude. Very respected obviously but he has bounced around a ton. I’m sure he can be a good head coach but I’m taking the more proven guy in Flores over him.
3. Pederson. Got a raw deal on Philly. The guy won a super bowl with nick foles as his quarterback and if not for a drop against Saints he might have been on his way to another with Foles as QB. Think he’s a good leader and really good playcaller. Just as good of a play caller as Daboll in my opinion. And he’s got experience in the big games.
4. Ryans - would have liked to have interviewed him but clearly that’s not happening. Seems to be an up and coming leader and he’s putting on a clinic right now in the playoffs against some really good offenses.
Agree with pretty much all that you posted. I feel similarly. I won't be sad if it's Daboll or Flores but I am kind of leaning to Flores based on what you say here. And I know it's not popular but I wouldn't be sad for Peterson.... lol. And I don't even hat the idea of Dan Quinn.
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to protect against any perception of flouting the Rooney rule?
Conspiracy theories aside, this was literally my first thought.
Will Schoen and the next HC have complete authority to decide the future of Jones and Barkley?
With how wrong they've been for years now, too. Hilarious.
Ummm? I have no idea of your football background and... Not for nothing but pot meet kettle and all that? lol
Just sayin. Not trying to be a Richard because I do like a lot of your posts... but sometimes... lol
Don't underestimate the power of an unshakable hand in the face of a storm.
Sometimes a fiery HC personality is exactly what players tune out when they're already on the verge of making business decisions. "Fuck this guy" is a really easy conclusion to reach when your salary is guaranteed for next season.
Smugness doesn't bother me if the poster knows what they're talking about.
The head in the sand crew that's been clueless for years and accusing everyone else of being miserable - that's quite a load of bullshit.
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Do all these theories go away? Because it’s clear Daboll is Schoen driven.
Daboll is the guy I want, but I'm going to have a hard time believing John and Chris will ever step back. I believe Schoen was probably the prescribed hire before the process started.
And that doesn't mean that Schoen or Daboll are bad - I'm happy with both.
I just don't trust John and Chris not to interfere. Like I said above, I think Jones is the big canary in the coal mine because keeping him beyond 2022 doesn't make sense under any scenario - if they do that's Mara, and that's a red alert situation.
There's a 2nd canary in Barkley.
I was encouraged when Mara said that Jones and Barkley would be up to the new GM. We'll see if he was telling the truth - until then there is no reason to believe him.
Is that bad because the new GM, that was a clear favorite and given a head start by the Mara’s, is intrinsically linked to Daboll, and therefore he himself is now also tarnished?
Will our Owners ever see the errors of their ways? Will they remove themselves from all football decisions because they know not what they do?
Tune in tomorrow.
Same Bat time
Same Bat channel
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is pretty damn funny.
Smugness doesn't bother me if the poster knows what they're talking about.
The head in the sand crew that's been clueless for years and accusing everyone else of being miserable - that's quite a load of bullshit.
People root for the team, news at 11. BBI clout matters to a very small minority of posters. “Being right” hasn’t gotten anyone here, anywhere. Unless of course you are gambling then yeah, being right comes in handy.
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In comment 15575121 UConn4523 said:
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is pretty damn funny.
Smugness doesn't bother me if the poster knows what they're talking about.
The head in the sand crew that's been clueless for years and accusing everyone else of being miserable - that's quite a load of bullshit.
People root for the team, news at 11. BBI clout matters to a very small minority of posters. “Being right” hasn’t gotten anyone here, anywhere. Unless of course you are gambling then yeah, being right comes in handy.
Being right here isn't all that handy, agreed. Remembering those who have outed themselves as clueless (in many cases, aggressively and smugly so) is useful and a good source of humor.
It must be noted that Mara did not *say* anything here.
This was a "report" tweeted by Ralph V. The exact quote was something along go the lines of "many believe Brian Flores is John Mara's first choice."
This was not incisive, evidence-based reporting. Which makes some of meltdowns in this thread all the more amusing.
"Many believe".
Hypothetically, one could write that "many believe a small business owner with a penchant for misogynistic remarks had questionable whereabouts 346 days ago". Doesn't make it true, untrue, actionable, or otherwise demanding of commentary.
The Thrill Ride also is left to wonder. If indeed people want to "believe" that Daboll and Flores are the likeliest candidates, why are there no posts celebrating their accomplishments? Or videos detailing their schematic skill? Weighing the pro's and con's of these two desirable candidates who will have multiple opportunities at head coaching vacancies? Their teams played each other 6 times in the last three years, and those outcomes might inform an opinion.
But instead of talking about sports and the joys of the game, somehow this conversation gets steered repeatedly into a conspiracy theorist narrative. Why is that?
(not singling you out, Mr. Tuff1, just using your post as.a jumping off point to redirect the conversation into something more productive)
Thrill, yes it's not enough to close the case and throw Mara in jail yet, but ask yourself why is it "believed" that "many" think Flores is Mara's choice? He would have had to say something or expressed his feelings to his inner circle, right?
Is it a leap to believe that Ralph needed to be confident in that being the case to float this out there? Ralph has been fairly spot on, and while I've had my issues with Ralph's reporting style over the years he's been much more on the ball and grounded lately. This makes me feel he isn't just making shit up to stir pots.
When you are a journalist -- and I went to one of the best J schools in the country -- if you are pretty damn sure this is the case and it has been corroborated by multiple sources you trust (i.e. "many") but the person (Mara) hasn't said it directly to you (because why would he?) then you might attribute it this way. I get it, it sounds weak to those with your stance who see an opening to attack it, but a good reporter does not conjure this purely from thin air if you believe Ralph has any integrity at all.
So basically what I'm saying is I trust Ralph more than I trust you or any other optimist on the board at this time. And the reason we are getting upset is because there are a litany of examples in the last decade of Mara's and the front office's meddling and poor decision making which is casting doubt in our minds.
And not a problem using my post as a leverage point to steer what you feel is a more productive conversation. For me, and several others on this board, the most productive outcome at this time is Mara and his family getting out of Schoen's way.
This supersedes the X's and O's on the field. What we see on the field, for the most part, is a symptom of the root of the Giants higher level operation. And the root has been rotten for a long time and one of the primary reasons for that is the family's involvement in football operations. THAT is why we're skeptical, disappointed, and somewhat freaking out when we hear reports like Ralph's although we hope that is not the case the Mara's have given us little reason to believe in them or that they can change their stripes. Mara alluded to their shattering the Giants fans' trust.
I'm still trying to take this report with a grain of salt so excuse the associated rage at times -- but the reason emotions are high is this a major problem. If Mara and his inner circle are helicopter parenting Schoen this will all end in disaster again in a few years and as Terps said they will nonchalantly push Schoen into the slaughter house and set up the next "meatshield"... That is their history. And those who don't learn from it... well you know how that saying goes. That's why we push back.
In the end we all want what's best for the Giants.
I think we know that by now. Maybe come up with something more constructive? That's lazy copout retort that doesn't really resolve or question the actual take in question. Like, if someone says Mara is behind this whole charade and someone else says well what if the new GM truly does like Flores and the angry person that says "NYG SUCK BALLS FOR !@() years now"---that right there, that retort sucks balls.
Just saying.