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The 42-year-old Bills offensive coordinator is “clearly the favorite” to become the next Giants head coach, according to someone familiar with the process. He has been the favorite to many all along, given his relationship with new Giants GM Joe Schoen and the fact that Daboll has other supporters inside the organization, too. ... That doesn’t mean Daboll is a lock to get the job, though. There is still strong support for former Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores, who many believe is the top choice of co-owner John Mara. Flores and Schoen don’t have a history together, though they have spoken in the last few weeks, according to sources. So Flores still has his chance to stake his claim to the job. |
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If you hate the Roster, Owners, and choices of Gm and Coach why not find a different organization that more closely aligns with your beliefs. There seems to be a large group here that just peddles misery every day. Having opposing views is one thing but hating every aspect of an organization while also being a fan makes no sense
The people who are here and bitching are doing so because they love the team and they are upset about how mismanaged it has become.
The Giants have become the laughing stock of the NFL. They get blown out by loser teams like the Bears and quit in the 2nd quarter of game (see our new QB sneak offense).
The ones who are here are the ones who care. The ones who have left are the ones who have given up. And that list is growing daily.
So BBI is the last beacon of hope, and the end all be all of Giant fandom? Good lord dude.
Agreed. Maybe I'm making too much of this, but the other thing that bothered me about the Schoen hire was the predictability. Very telegraphed hire.
Hopefully, he does have the power we all want him to have and he weilds it. Looking forward to his presser tomorrow.
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In comment 15574149 Dnew15 said:
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did NOT begin when DG arrived. They pre-dated him.
There are people that still occupy important front office roles that have been here for the duration of the NYG 10 year run of disaster.
If the new GM is not a yes-man (like I suspect DG was) then we'll see proof in his actions against those that need to be held accountable for their ineptitude.
I'm in full on wait-and-see mode.
This is the key point. There has been a structural problem brewing here. The 2011 team was not as good as the 2008 team. I think we blew our chance in 2008 but made up for it in 2011 because Manning had a career year and Cruz and Nicks were amazing. The defense and running game - which were bottom ranked - finally came to life in the playoffs.
But that 2011 team was fraying at the edges and the collapse came quickly. Why? Injuries, bad drafting, bad free agent decisions.
So in many ways, this predates even 2011.
2008 in Cleveland. If it had to be narrowed down to a single date point of inflection, that game is it. That's certainly too simplistic, but I can't forget Shaun Rogers destroying the middle of that offensive line.
That's a ridiculous assertion. The 2008 line was amazing. More like the 2011 Giants against SF OL in NFC CG. Eli got pummeled but still won because of him. A bit similar to Burrow this past weekend. That was more a sign of things to come than any game in 2008 where we ran all over everyone.
If we could hire Kyle Shanahan or McVay or Tomlin we should. But they're not available. And before they had their current jobs, they were coordinators who hadn't been HCs. Tomlin, in particular, had very little senior experience.
Is Shoen good? I don't know. He has the profile of someone who could be good. He was on the list of other teams looking for GMs. The Giants talked to a lot of other similarly qualified guys and picked him. They had to pick someone. Think about who we were talking about during the season - Abrams, Pioli, someone chosen by Judge? Is this not better?
Will Daboll be good? Who knows? He has a lot of experience with a lot of different coaches. He's run a good offense. People in the league seem to think highly of him. None of us know him (I actually met him in the 90's when he was a graduate assistant, but a lot's changed since then). Even if we did know him, we wouldn't know if he'd be a good coach.
Who does know him is Shoen. He's been in the building with him for years. And if he thinks that Daboll is the guy who he wants to stake his future with, he certainly has a lot more info than we do.
I'm not saying to defer completely to the people in charge. The people in charge here have been dumb for a long time. But they talked to a lot of qualified candidates for GM and picked one. The GM knows the likely coach very well and presumably has a good working relationship with him (we want that, right?). The process, on the whole, seems quite good. What else do we want?
Because the Mara family wields a lot of power and influence across all areas of the NFL.
No one speaks of ill of the Mara family.
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I'm talking about his evaluation of the team and management.
Go Terps was right all along.
Yes, that is true, though it wasn't just him. The notion that the 2018 team was in any position to make another run with Eli and hence drafting a RB #2 overall was a sound way to construct a roster in clear need of rebuilding was such an obvious red flag from start. And Daniel Jones was such a glaring close to the heard of the organization reach at 6 as a QB out of Duke who was coached by Eli's former coach and unlikely as high on anyone elses board.
The issue I have with Terps is that his desire to move on from Jones is so strong, which we need to do, but you cannot force the QB. We need the right guy, not just someone not named Jones, and that person may not be available right away without selling the farm.
I'm not interested in forcing a QB pick. There are numerous viable options that vary in aggressiveness.
What is not viable is sitting around waiting for Andrew Luck in the draft.
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In comment 15574158 UConn4523 said:
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also depends on what being the favorite means, and why, and if its even accurate. It could have been that way before Schoen was even hired.
Flores is actually someone a lot of people want hired too, but if/when he is the narrative has already been created. Its an equally fascinating and bizarre way to follow sports. To each their own.
Yes there are two ways to follow sports. You can follow what is happening and form opinions, or you can accept information that supports your view and reject information that challenges it. Two very different ways to enjoy sports, you are correct.
Not rejecting it, lol. Getting this defensive is just strange. And I gave my opinion based on the information at hand, which is...not really much unless you want to use it for confirmation bias.
You are a strange dude. You drop into a thread, insult other posters based on your own misunderstanding of what is being discussed, and then accuse someone else of being defensive.
But hey, enjoy it the way you enjoy it!
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In comment 15574161 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 15574149 Dnew15 said:
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did NOT begin when DG arrived. They pre-dated him.
There are people that still occupy important front office roles that have been here for the duration of the NYG 10 year run of disaster.
If the new GM is not a yes-man (like I suspect DG was) then we'll see proof in his actions against those that need to be held accountable for their ineptitude.
I'm in full on wait-and-see mode.
This is the key point. There has been a structural problem brewing here. The 2011 team was not as good as the 2008 team. I think we blew our chance in 2008 but made up for it in 2011 because Manning had a career year and Cruz and Nicks were amazing. The defense and running game - which were bottom ranked - finally came to life in the playoffs.
But that 2011 team was fraying at the edges and the collapse came quickly. Why? Injuries, bad drafting, bad free agent decisions.
So in many ways, this predates even 2011.
2008 in Cleveland. If it had to be narrowed down to a single date point of inflection, that game is it. That's certainly too simplistic, but I can't forget Shaun Rogers destroying the middle of that offensive line.
That's a ridiculous assertion. The 2008 line was amazing. More like the 2011 Giants against SF OL in NFC CG. Eli got pummeled but still won because of him. A bit similar to Burrow this past weekend. That was more a sign of things to come than any game in 2008 where we ran all over everyone.
The 2008 line was starting to break. The first sign (that I saw, anyway) was in Cleveland. That was a warning for what was to come in the playoffs, where Michael Patterson and Broderick Bunkley dominated the interior of the LOS.
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if that is truly what his reputation across the nfl is, why is everyone saying great hire? i have no ida how he'll turn out but i don't think it makes sense that he's known as some kind of yes man throughout the league but everyone at he same time is lauding the hire. there's a disconnect there. not every hire gets greeted with positive comments and this one has been extremely positive. i don't see how it could be reality that around the league his rep isnt that great.
Because the Mara family wields a lot of power and influence across all areas of the NFL.
No one speaks of ill of the Mara family.
So the entire media spoke ill of the previous GM from the minute they hired him, but now they're speaking great about Schoen because the Mara's have power? Where was their power the last 4 years when literally everyone was killing DG (rightfully so). Listen all I'm saying is just look at the logic. Everyone is so beaten down that everyone wants to be the first to say "See i told you all it was the same old terrible hire".
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In comment 15574185 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15574161 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 15574149 Dnew15 said:
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did NOT begin when DG arrived. They pre-dated him.
There are people that still occupy important front office roles that have been here for the duration of the NYG 10 year run of disaster.
If the new GM is not a yes-man (like I suspect DG was) then we'll see proof in his actions against those that need to be held accountable for their ineptitude.
I'm in full on wait-and-see mode.
This is the key point. There has been a structural problem brewing here. The 2011 team was not as good as the 2008 team. I think we blew our chance in 2008 but made up for it in 2011 because Manning had a career year and Cruz and Nicks were amazing. The defense and running game - which were bottom ranked - finally came to life in the playoffs.
But that 2011 team was fraying at the edges and the collapse came quickly. Why? Injuries, bad drafting, bad free agent decisions.
So in many ways, this predates even 2011.
2008 in Cleveland. If it had to be narrowed down to a single date point of inflection, that game is it. That's certainly too simplistic, but I can't forget Shaun Rogers destroying the middle of that offensive line.
That's a ridiculous assertion. The 2008 line was amazing. More like the 2011 Giants against SF OL in NFC CG. Eli got pummeled but still won because of him. A bit similar to Burrow this past weekend. That was more a sign of things to come than any game in 2008 where we ran all over everyone.
The 2008 line was starting to break. The first sign (that I saw, anyway) was in Cleveland. That was a warning for what was to come in the playoffs, where Michael Patterson and Broderick Bunkley dominated the interior of the LOS.
The team went 12-4 and led the league in rushing in part because of the strength of the OL that year. Did they have a bad game or two sure. I can't use that season to show the line was beginning to break down. The 2009,2010, and 2011 teams were also top 10 in points scored. It started to go shortly thereafter so I will use the SF game myself.
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There are three types of personnel guys who get to GM. The talent evaluator, the architect, and the "yes men". The Giants finalist were all yes men. No one can honestly tell you they got the best talent evaluator in the league and if they do they're being kind to a friend. Joe is a no-ego guy who is a good information gatherer. He does exactly what is asked. Maras didn't want a strong personality with experience. They wanted someone green, someone they could influence with little resistance. They got their guy.
Jabrill Peppers said that? If so, I assume he's seen his last day in a Giants' uniform
Might be something, might be nothing, time will tell. I'd agree the tell(s) will be how Schoen goes about change in the front office, scouting, personnel, then Jones, and to a less extent, Saquon.
There's some far reaching takes on both sides of this coin and plenty of hyperbole being thrown around. Calling it like I see it and if that's insulting (no idea how that can be but alrighty) i'm not sure what to tell you.
I suppose. But I wouldn't bet on that scenario.
Read above. Noted that DG did his shitty player eval work on Eli (and missed it), figured his ego alone would fix the rest of the roster (and missed it).
So he walked into Mara's office and said Eli is fine, lets go...
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posted this in the Whitt thread:
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There are three types of personnel guys who get to GM. The talent evaluator, the architect, and the "yes men". The Giants finalist were all yes men. No one can honestly tell you they got the best talent evaluator in the league and if they do they're being kind to a friend. Joe is a no-ego guy who is a good information gatherer. He does exactly what is asked. Maras didn't want a strong personality with experience. They wanted someone green, someone they could influence with little resistance. They got their guy.
Jabrill Peppers said that? If so, I assume he's seen his last day in a Giants' uniform
Bill - there is a poster with the handle "Peppers" here, who has somewhat of a track record of accurate/inside insight.
It is not a crazy conspiracy theory to think he'd interfere with the coaching hires or player personnel. It is known fact based on good evidence.
It's on Mara to prove he isn't being an ass; it's not on the fans to prove he's being an ass.
Zero benefit of the doubt...is fine. I agree.
That's not what this is which is a witch hunt on the Mara's doing anything in the building except take a piss.
When you actually see somebody behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll with a gun, call me...
Might be something, might be nothing, time will tell. I'd agree the tell(s) will be how Schoen goes about change in the front office, scouting, personnel, then Jones, and to a less extent, Saquon.
No one is suggesting repeating the mistake.
I've said frequently that the bigger mistake was not drafting Jones, but clinging to him when there was clearly a better prospect available in the following draft. That was where an honest appraisal of Jones was critical; instead of honesty what took place was infatuation with a couple outlet performances against bad defenses.
The biggest need on the Giants' roster is quarterback. That doesn't mean they have to draft one at #5 or #7. But they need to address the position either in the draft, FA, or both. Going forward solely with Jones and a non-factor backup again isn't viable. If they do that I'd have questions about whether Schoen is stupid or if he's been mandated by Mara to go with Jones. Either way, it's a huge problem.
Whomever they hire, the areas to watch are the front office, scouting, and quarterback. If those remain static it's not good.
He wants Flores over Daboll. But I guess we won't discuss that.
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In comment 15574004 Eric from BBI said:
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posted this in the Whitt thread:
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There are three types of personnel guys who get to GM. The talent evaluator, the architect, and the "yes men". The Giants finalist were all yes men. No one can honestly tell you they got the best talent evaluator in the league and if they do they're being kind to a friend. Joe is a no-ego guy who is a good information gatherer. He does exactly what is asked. Maras didn't want a strong personality with experience. They wanted someone green, someone they could influence with little resistance. They got their guy.
Jabrill Peppers said that? If so, I assume he's seen his last day in a Giants' uniform
Bill - there is a poster with the handle "Peppers" here, who has somewhat of a track record of accurate/inside insight.
Thanks, I picked up on that after reading more posts. I've never noticed him, but I will now :)
There's some far reaching takes on both sides of this coin and plenty of hyperbole being thrown around. Calling it like I see it and if that's insulting (no idea how that can be but alrighty) i'm not sure what to tell you.
I don't think you are a dumb guy, so you must just being purposefully obtuse in your posts.
Nobody is 'questioning everything this organization does." It was a reaction to a single piece of information reported by a beat writer. Nobody said it is right, but it is also consistent with what happened here the last two years, so not exactly a conspiracy theory to believe it may be true.
And yeah, calling how someone else is a fan 'bizarre' is insulting. Unless you believe there is no pejorative meaning to that word?
I get it. You don't like to question things or believe the Giants can make mistakes or by dysfunctional. That's fine. But you should realize not everyone shares that belief and that doesn't make them wrong.
And you wonder why fans leave this site.
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But where I disagree is that rolling with DJ for another year as a bridge QB while improving in other major areas of need if the timing is not right is a viable option. It is quite possible that we'd be sitting here with Herbert now instead Jones if we handn't reached for the latter.
No one is suggesting repeating the mistake.
I've said frequently that the bigger mistake was not drafting Jones, but clinging to him when there was clearly a better prospect available in the following draft. That was where an honest appraisal of Jones was critical; instead of honesty what took place was infatuation with a couple outlet performances against bad defenses.
The biggest need on the Giants' roster is quarterback. That doesn't mean they have to draft one at #5 or #7. But they need to address the position either in the draft, FA, or both. Going forward solely with Jones and a non-factor backup again isn't viable. If they do that I'd have questions about whether Schoen is stupid or if he's been mandated by Mara to go with Jones. Either way, it's a huge problem.
Whomever they hire, the areas to watch are the front office, scouting, and quarterback. If those remain static it's not good.
Now this is spot on. I would also like to say RB as well but will be though to get a team to Barkley off our hands and they have Booker who performed well when called on. Don't think they'll look to add anyone else in that room unless someone does want Barkley.
But everyone wants to blame Mara, so we won't get into those.
But everyone wants to blame Mara, so we won't get into those.
That's not the issue. Gun to my head, I'd probably go with Flores.
The issue is the GM should make the pick. If they override him, they should have hired another GM.
All 3 of them had never been a GM. They had never made a draft pick, they worked for the GM of the actual teams they were employed for, 2 of them being assistant GMs and successful ones at that. So....yeah. No shit they were "yes men" because they did whatever their boss told them to do. Which is what all assistant GMs do when they work for a GM.
He wants Flores over Daboll. But I guess we won't discuss that.
Unsurprisingly the whole conversation is over your head.
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So it's your position that Dave Gettleman was calling most of the shots in the past four years? That it was HIS decision to stick with Manning, not rebuild, and try for another run? That he was not abiding by the wishes of the Maras?
I suppose. But I wouldn't bet on that scenario.
Read above. Noted that DG did his shitty player eval work on Eli (and missed it), figured his ego alone would fix the rest of the roster (and missed it).
So he walked into Mara's office and said Eli is fine, lets go...
This is baloney. No way Mara was doubling down on the Eli benching. He was in total damage control for days after that. Francessa challenged him to cut Eli.
Everyone talks about Dave but forget who John turned to for guidance. Ernie. That I think where the decision was made.
Short of a can't miss prospect QB prospect (think Manning/Luck here) I even think drafting a QB was a no go in 2018 no matter how much impression they tried to give.
The demise was starting before 2011. Take a look at the 2012 draft if you need to see what the Giants thought of the eroding lines. Wilson, Randle, Hosley, JPP TE's. I'm sure TC was pounding the table for a scat back, another WR and TE with his QB just having survived the season with practically no running game.
He wants Flores over Daboll. But I guess we won't discuss that.
Oh, no! The Mara's got to Sy now too?
But here's the thing. What if Schoen actually wants to hire Flores? If Flores is hired, everyone, including you, because of this narrative you are pushing every day, will AUTOMATICALLY assume that Flores was picked by Mara. And that's kind of absurd.
When Flores was fired, nearly everyone in football was surprised. He had done a nice job in Miami with basically, the same roster as the Giants had the past two seasons. Maybe worse.
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on the back channels for some time. So, while they went outside the org for the new GM, you could certainly say they zero'd in on him before the interview process of all candidates began. To this extent, Peppers' perspective on the matter is not surprising and a bit concerning, given Mara's poor decision making over the past decade.
Might be something, might be nothing, time will tell. I'd agree the tell(s) will be how Schoen goes about change in the front office, scouting, personnel, then Jones, and to a less extent, Saquon.
But was it only Schoen? There was prep work done before hand, we know and was part of counter argument why firing DG before season end wasn't necessary. Do we know for sure there were only discussions with Schoen and no one else?
I don't know, but it doesn't change the likelihood of how they approached this for me. I'm not shitting on the process or the hire, just noting Peppers comments are a bit bothersome until we some actions that indicate otherwise.
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Fair enough. That is a reasonable take. I just don't think that the idea is to have the GM make such an important decision in a vacuum. IMO healthy discussion with Schoen making the final call is how I would expect the process to work, and I did not get the idea from the article that anything contrary to that was suggested.
Nobody is suggesting that Mara not interview the candidates or have an opinion. Of course he will. The concern is when it is reported in the press that the owner has a preferred candidate before the final decision is made. That is the concern because how does that not influence the decision?
That's fine. It's just tiresome. He did what you wanted. Get over it and hope this new GM ends up being a good one.
That's fine. It's just tiresome. He did what you wanted. Get over it and hope this new GM ends up being a good one.
Jesus ryan, you're such a mouthpiece for the organization.
This team hasn't improved in years. We are exactly where we were six years go, but even worse, despite going through another GM and three HCs.
Three winning seasons in a row??? How about just 8-8?
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In comment 15574082 Eric from BBI said:
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So it's your position that Dave Gettleman was calling most of the shots in the past four years? That it was HIS decision to stick with Manning, not rebuild, and try for another run? That he was not abiding by the wishes of the Maras?
I suppose. But I wouldn't bet on that scenario.
Read above. Noted that DG did his shitty player eval work on Eli (and missed it), figured his ego alone would fix the rest of the roster (and missed it).
So he walked into Mara's office and said Eli is fine, lets go...
This is baloney. No way Mara was doubling down on the Eli benching. He was in total damage control for days after that. Francessa challenged him to cut Eli.
Everyone talks about Dave but forget who John turned to for guidance. Ernie. That I think where the decision was made.
Short of a can't miss prospect QB prospect (think Manning/Luck here) I even think drafting a QB was a no go in 2018 no matter how much impression they tried to give.
You're missing it. The mandate didn't need to come down because Getts figured Eli had some more "game". He was wrong, but that is what he concluded to and told Mara.
Mara was just likely very pleased to here that was the conclusion from his football folks (DG and Shurmur)...but it was wrong.
But everyone wants to blame Mara, so we won't get into those.
Doesn’t matter what Mara and co., SUGGEST, Schoen was given carte blanche on hirings..If Flores becomes our HC, then it’s because Schoen wants him here. Just because the vast majority believe it will be Daboll (which I do), that does not mean there’s an undermining underfoot..It means we got it wrong, imv
What's tiresome is your apparent inability to learn anything.
Mara doesn't deserve trust. Those aren't my words, they're his. Don't give people shit for not giving him a benefit of the doubt that he hasn't earned.
A bunch of you guys post like you haven't spent the last four years being wrong about everything.
I feel his instincts are correct on this... the tell is going to be Daniel Jones. I would throw Barkley in there too.
Will Schoen and the next HC have complete authority to decide the future of Jones and Barkley?
I agree on Barkley, signing him beyond what he already has will be a fiasco. I guess I'm in the minority on Jones.I'm pessimistic, but haven't closed the book. Fix the OL, improve the team, and if he's healthy let him play. If he doesn't cut it next year, move on. But do not extend him in advance. Doing that I think would certainly fall on Mara.
[quote] But where I disagree is that rolling with DJ for another year as a bridge QB while improving in other major areas of need if the timing is not right is a viable option. It is quite possible that we'd be sitting here with Herbert now instead Jones if we handn't reached for the latter. [/quote
+1
Why would either be that much of a drastic issue? I would hope they had started the process to some degree...
It doesn't mean rigged or that other GMs that came into the light later didn't get a fair shake.
They act like they know what is best but all they do is screw things up.
Some specific people here will jump on what Peppers said because it fits their preconceived notions of the Mara's but I am more middle of the road- show me person.. Besides doom and bloomers will always be soon and bloomers - like extremists of any sort- their notions are right all else is wrong..
Might be something, might be nothing, time will tell. I'd agree the tell(s) will be how Schoen goes about change in the front office, scouting, personnel, then Jones, and to a less extent, Saquon.
I recall you making this point several weeks ago before Schoen was hired and it stood out to me as a tell that he was going to be the clear frontrunner. And it was his to lose. I have a few friends in the media and they have indicated that Peters made a great impression and gave Mara a lot to think about. But in the end, he trusted the early homework he had done, and gave that the most weight in the decision.