If Daboll gets hired as our HC and if Daboll can talk MT into coming to NY, then I think we may have a very good QB competition for the top job. Me personally, I think Mitch would win this showdown, but that is just speculation. I know there are two big IFS to get by for this to happen. So this is just for fun to ponder.
Mitch Trubisky stats (4 years):
Record…………… 29-21
% completed…….64.1%
Yards per game average……….187 (10,652 total)
Passing TDs….64
Int……….…….38
Fumbles…….27
Rushing yards………1,081
Rushing TDs………..9
Rate…………………..87
Daniel Jones stats:
Record…………..12-25
% completed……62.8%
Yards per game average……..221 (8398 total)
Passing TDs………45
Int………………………29
Fumbles………….36
Rushing yards……….1000
Rushing TDs…………5
Rate……………..84.3
Of course, there is more to a player than just numbers. And sometimes numbers aren’t always truthful.
That's because he's NOTand i would argue that anyone who's watched him enough would see that. I, for one, can't believe the frequent references or calls for him in recent threads. Ask any Bears fan why that would be a bad idea
There's probably a young QB somewhere the Giants can get and develop. It's unlikely there's a future All-Pro or HOFer lurking as a backup somewhere, the way Brett Favre was, but there might be another Jimmy Garoppolo. Or, the original Jimmy Garoppolo, if Rodgers signs there. Jimmy G ain't great but he's better than the guys who were backing up DJ, and he might even beat out Jones for the starting job.
Mitch in a similar time period has been the better player. The fact that he represents an upgrade is such an indictment on DG. I don't see anyway Jones is still here beyond 2022, much to the dismay of guys like Dottino.
Trubisky is a good fit on a roster with Jones for 1 year. Let them battle it out. Either one is at least a competitive option and you never know about a light bulb perhaps turning on late. One also makes a good backup option to the other because of their shared mobility.
Agree
So many problems surrounding his tenure. And will he even play?
But IF he regains some of what he had under Shurmur and is surrounded by a generally competent offensive group, and asked to do what he can do well, I'm not ready to write him off.
Can be a lot of reasons a QB does well in his rookie season, and then his play falls off. And God knows, Jones has every legitimate excuse in the book. If so, there may still be something there, but if it's just a matter of DC's learning what he can and can't do, and taking away the former, it's unlikely he's going to be able to produce at a high level anywhere. But I'm not ready to throw him into the Trubisky bag, YET!
Taylor or even Daniels.....ugh. That would be pathetic.
Minschew, despite his stats, is overrated IMO.
Mills would not be available IMO.
Between Trubisky and DJ, give me DJ but the new GM has ties to MT so that could happen.
I just see identical players there.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out with the ex Buff now at GM.
I disagree.
For one, if it's clarity on Jones we need (which I think is a day late and a dollar short at this point) then why not at least bring in viable option to unseat him? Not a bad thing.
It's been suggested, and I don't disagree, that Trubisky could beat him outright in a competition. That is also not a bad thing.
Finally, while neither are going to be confused with Joe Montana any time soon, the presence of both would mean that as we're hoping rebuilding the rest of the roster, this franchise can avoid a QB scenario of having to go between the likes of people like Glennon and Fromm.
You can even sprinkle in a draft pick like the kid Malik Willis and open camp with all 3. Let the 2 vets battle it out to open camp, they're only here for a year anyway. Maybe the loser of that competition eventually becomes 3rd string by the end of the year if the rookie gets worked in.
Never had one!?
Were you around for 2011?
So like Chicago then
Agree.
It's bizarre. We have a fanbase that wants to make it difficult to win. They want to win with a mediocre QB. The blue collar way, even though Daniel Jones is a millionaire.
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Next year we give Jones a real offensive line and a real coordinator and see what he has. Having an also-ran veteran quarterback doesn't help us at all
I disagree.
For one, if it's clarity on Jones we need (which I think is a day late and a dollar short at this point) then why not at least bring in viable option to unseat him? Not a bad thing.
It's been suggested, and I don't disagree, that Trubisky could beat him outright in a competition. That is also not a bad thing.
Finally, while neither are going to be confused with Joe Montana any time soon, the presence of both would mean that as we're hoping rebuilding the rest of the roster, this franchise can avoid a QB scenario of having to go between the likes of people like Glennon and Fromm.
You can even sprinkle in a draft pick like the kid Malik Willis and open camp with all 3. Let the 2 vets battle it out to open camp, they're only here for a year anyway. Maybe the loser of that competition eventually becomes 3rd string by the end of the year if the rookie gets worked in.
How would it be a good thing if Trubisky is our quarterback? What would be the point, we already know that he's an also-ran and will lead the team nowhere
Why waste an early round Draft pick on a quarterback you know isn't going to become the guy?
The fact is Jones has never been given a real shot. Maybe he won't be any better than he has been, but we have nothing to lose because none of the Trubiskys and Mariotas are any good
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
So like Chicago then
No actually the year he got them to the playoffs they had a decent OL and running game. In any case Chicago has had a better OL than us although that is not saying much.
We need to be shrewd with our limited cap dollars. No need to carry two duds at QB when only one can play.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
We're either trying to solve the QB problem, or we're punting it.
I hope they scout these college QBs hard.
But if Jones can't beat out Trubisky in camp, what's the point in playing him? Whoever the vet QB is, it has to be one who isn't going to be complacent sitting on the bench holding a clipboard. Whether it's Trubisky, Mariotta or someone else, give them a legit chance to win the job. If they can, the Jones apologists don't have much of an argument (not that it will stop them).
We're either trying to solve the QB problem, or we're punting it.
I hope they scout these college QBs hard.
That would be optimal, that the FO thinks highly enough of one of the college QB's to draft him. If not, then we have to go the vet QB competition route.
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
AJR - did you ever apologize for your ridiculous accusation, saying the poster used twitter info and claimed it as insider info?
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but are we solving any issue with him here?
We're either trying to solve the QB problem, or we're punting it.
I hope they scout these college QBs hard.
That would be optimal, that the FO thinks highly enough of one of the college QB's to draft him. If not, then we have to go the vet QB competition route.
You dont seem to get it - we dont need vet competition because we need to see if Jones can do the job. We already know the others cant. A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
^This. Why replace Jones with Trubisky?
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In comment 15574599 Go Terps said:
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but are we solving any issue with him here?
We're either trying to solve the QB problem, or we're punting it.
I hope they scout these college QBs hard.
That would be optimal, that the FO thinks highly enough of one of the college QB's to draft him. If not, then we have to go the vet QB competition route.
You dont seem to get it - we dont need vet competition because we need to see if Jones can do the job. We already know the others cant. A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
You don't seem to get it. All we heard last year was that Jones needed 3 full years before we could evaluate him, and now it's 4. And if he sucks next year, you'll be pining for a 5th.
I repeat what I said, the scholarship is over. If Jones wants the starting job, he will have to go out and win it. This year showed us what you get when you sign a half-assed backup. Jones will get hurt - he always does - and at the very least, the vet backup should be able to do the job in his place. At most, win the job outright.
Jones gets hurt every year so why not have 2x of them in case we're trying to win?
Watching Daniel Jones try to play QB suuuucks. It's like watching an adult who has to move their lips while reading. "OK coach said if the safety is 15 yards off the line, I should look to the right...or was it 20 yards...ok so I'm going to look right now and see if anyone is open...no..I don't think that guy was open...ok, what's next, right now I need to look for the Mike linebacker...which one was he again..."
You only bring Trubisky in as backup if you've got a vet starting. He's the same player as Jones -- not good enough to get you where you want to go.
Having the going-nowhere vets at QB just leave us where we are now. Makes more sense to roll with Jones and truly find out
You only bring Trubisky in as backup if you've got a vet starting. He's the same player as Jones -- not good enough to get you where you want to go.
So we should sign a backup only if he's not as good as Jones? What sense does that make?
Having the going-nowhere vets at QB just leave us where we are now. Makes more sense to roll with Jones and truly find out
If he can't beat out a "going nowhere" vet, than he isn't the answer. Nuf said.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
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So he hasnt had his chance. Now he will. Bringing in going-nowhere veterans dont help in any way. If Jones fails, we go into 2023 no worse than we are now. If he succeeds, then we found the guy
Having the going-nowhere vets at QB just leave us where we are now. Makes more sense to roll with Jones and truly find out
If he can't beat out a "going nowhere" vet, than he isn't the answer. Nuf said.
Right. But even let’s say Jones wins the job, if he gets hurt again does everyone want to watch Jake Fromm again? No matter who the starter is we need an upgrade at backup QB.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You’re the one dumb enough to think Jones can still be a good QB.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
So if he loses out in a fair QB competition...it isn't good because he doesn't get to work with a real OL & OC? What? I don't follow.
One of the following scenarios is more likely:
(1) Jones and a veteran backup. In this scenario we don't draft a QB until 2023.
(2) Jones and rookie backup. We draft a QB to compete with and hopefully succeed Jones in 2023.
(3) Trubisky (or another veteran) and a rookie backup. We draft a QB to compete with and hopefully succeed Trubisky in 2023. We also trade Jones. (I think this is very unlikely because of Jones's injury history.)
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Who might be slightly better? Jones is done, but he's cheap for one more year, which is why he'll be there. If he somehow pulls the rabbit out of the hat, Schoen has a decision to make but that's not a bad problem to have.
You only bring Trubisky in as backup if you've got a vet starting. He's the same player as Jones -- not good enough to get you where you want to go.
So we should sign a backup only if he's not as good as Jones? What sense does that make?
No, what I said was it makes no sense to bring in Trubisky when he is essentially already here. Jones is going to be on the team next year because he's cheap, but you could bring in a short term vet who is better (like a Tyrod Taylor). Does it matter? I don't think the answer at QB will be added to the team this offseason.
Enough with the training wheels. We need to bring in a vet backup, it might as well be one who can compete for the job. If Jones isn’t good enough to win I, how in the world would he be the answer?
You're not gonna get him for 1 year at $4M, and we have too many holes and too little cap space to give him big $$. Plus, this new coaching staff won't want to be tied to a QB for multiple years.
IMO, get someone cheaper on a 1-year deal to compete with/back-up Jones. Then, we are not tied to anyone beyond this year and the new coaching staff can make a decision on what direction to go at QB in 2023, after evaluating Jones and NEW GUY for a year, and when the college QB crop will be better and we will have more cap space.
No, what I said was it makes no sense to bring in Trubisky when he is essentially already here. Jones is going to be on the team next year because he's cheap, but you could bring in a short term vet who is better (like a Tyrod Taylor). Does it matter? I don't think the answer at QB will be added to the team this offseason.
I agree that neither Jones or whatever vet backup they bring in will be the long term answer, but if you’ve got to bring in a vet backup, why not make it one good enough to compete? Promising a shot at the job would be an attractive offer.
I haven’t given up on Jones yet either.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
Yeah, Jones is just the unluckiest QB in history, being held back by his coaches and teammates.
The sooner he's off the team, the better off the Giants will be
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
And Jones isn't taking us anywhere either. If we can get something for him, which I doubt, we should do it.
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
false. If Jones fails they lose the ability to recoup any assets via trade, while right now they should be able to get something back for him (with medicals checking out)
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In comment 15574599 Go Terps said:
A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
And you have to bring in competition. Let's face it, even if you like Jones a lot it is obvious he is not a great QB. He has made some incredibly stupid decisions. He has to know that those decisions won't be tolerated. You can only do that with a competitive QB behind him.
Third point is that because he is so injury prone, that has to be concern by Giants management. If you bring in another Glennon then you've rolled the dice on a crappy team any way, and are saying "fuck you" to season ticket holders that might be stuck with a Glennon for too many games, and you are saying "fuck you" to every player on the team.
Overall, posters on here pretend like they are scouts but they are fans. SO the predominate comment would be "it's okay to tank." That's not reality for the players or management until maybe last couple of weeks of the season. If Giants management doesn't get a competitive backup then it means they are complete punting the season if Jones gets hurt for an extended time. No way they should do that to the players on the team or the season ticket holders.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
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Beating someone out means losing reps and playing time, which Jones needs to get up to speed and give him his best shot
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
Then there will be the consensus that MT shouldn't have even been in the NFL ala Glennon.
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In comment 15574603 Section331 said:
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In comment 15574599 Go Terps said:
A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
This is such a great comment!
This is stunning. It's incredible how some people stick with Jones...
He has to get up to speed...in year 4!
1. Stick with Jones and hope that with a decent OL and OC he becomes the player you hoped for
2. Go with the Trubiskys and Mariotas, guys who already failed with decent OLs and OCs
None of these guys are appreciably better than Jones, so why waste your time with them? Meanwhile Jones has never had good OL and good OC
Dumping Jones now is like selling after the market drops and locking in your losses. Since the alternatives aren't much better, hang on to the stock and hope it rebounds
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In comment 15574702 Snablats said:
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Beating someone out means losing reps and playing time, which Jones needs to get up to speed and give him his best shot
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
Then there will be the consensus that MT shouldn't have even been in the NFL ala Glennon.
What? Consensus from who? From BBI posters?
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
I don't care if it's Trubisky, I don't even like him, but you have to bring in a vet backup anyway, why not make it one who is good enough to push Jones for the starting job? Just handing it to him again in year 4 is simply foolish.
Again, if Jones can't beat out a journeyman for the job, then we have our answer on him. I don't see how that is hard to figure out.
None of these guys are appreciably better than Jones, so why waste your time with them? Meanwhile Jones has never had good OL and good OC
Dumping Jones now is like selling after the market drops and locking in your losses. Since the alternatives aren't much better, hang on to the stock and hope it rebounds
No reason to dump Jones but you used the words "appreciably better" so the point is they could be better.
And what if Jones gets hurt again? You aren't supposed to plan for a QB that is often hurt? You don't give a shit about the season after that it is apparent he is injury prone but the owners, GM's, players, and the fans with season tickets do.
Just because you don't give a shit doesn't mean everyone else has to.
I argue the same point with posters like Go Terps and BW when they blindly want to change QB;s like we all change our socks.
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
This comment ignores that it was a combination of horrid OL with horrid skill players. DJ had many games where his primary received were Collin Johnson, Pettis, etc. Name a starting QB who had worse receivers than DJ had for most of the year. So, yes, while Herbert and Burrow had bad lines, they had multiple star quality receive and backs on offense. Does that not make it easier to hide an OLs shortcomings?
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In comment 15574504 Bruner4329 said:
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
This comment ignores that it was a combination of horrid OL with horrid skill players. DJ had many games where his primary received were Collin Johnson, Pettis, etc. Name a starting QB who had worse receivers than DJ had for most of the year. So, yes, while Herbert and Burrow had bad lines, they had multiple star quality receive and backs on offense. Does that not make it easier to hide an OLs shortcomings?
What did Jones do when all his weapons were out there? Toneys best game was with Glennon.
Maybe Burrow has a hand in chase being so good? And we don’t even have to discuss production. Under all that pressure Burrow didn’t make any of the mind numbing mistakes we see Jones make regularly
I'm not saying Jones will ever be burrow. I don't think anyone thinks that. Burrow looks destined to be a top 5 QB. But you don't need a Rodgers, Mahomes etc. to win, and if all you are ever waiting for is that, you're going to be disappointed the vast majority of the time. Eli was never top 5 and oftentimes probably wasn't top 8.
All I and otehrs are saying is that evaluating DJ with a bad OL, and a group receivers that probably would not make the roster for any other team in the NFL is difficult. I'm also saying that everyone wants to point out other QBs who succeed with poor OLs without ignoring the significant deficiencies on offense in addition to the OL
When were his full compliment of weapons all healthy at once?