If Daboll gets hired as our HC and if Daboll can talk MT into coming to NY, then I think we may have a very good QB competition for the top job. Me personally, I think Mitch would win this showdown, but that is just speculation. I know there are two big IFS to get by for this to happen. So this is just for fun to ponder.
Mitch Trubisky stats (4 years):
Record…………… 29-21
% completed…….64.1%
Yards per game average……….187 (10,652 total)
Passing TDs….64
Int……….…….38
Fumbles…….27
Rushing yards………1,081
Rushing TDs………..9
Rate…………………..87
Daniel Jones stats:
Record…………..12-25
% completed……62.8%
Yards per game average……..221 (8398 total)
Passing TDs………45
Int………………………29
Fumbles………….36
Rushing yards……….1000
Rushing TDs…………5
Rate……………..84.3
Of course, there is more to a player than just numbers. And sometimes numbers aren’t always truthful.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
So if he loses out in a fair QB competition...it isn't good because he doesn't get to work with a real OL & OC? What? I don't follow.
One of the following scenarios is more likely:
(1) Jones and a veteran backup. In this scenario we don't draft a QB until 2023.
(2) Jones and rookie backup. We draft a QB to compete with and hopefully succeed Jones in 2023.
(3) Trubisky (or another veteran) and a rookie backup. We draft a QB to compete with and hopefully succeed Trubisky in 2023. We also trade Jones. (I think this is very unlikely because of Jones's injury history.)
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Who might be slightly better? Jones is done, but he's cheap for one more year, which is why he'll be there. If he somehow pulls the rabbit out of the hat, Schoen has a decision to make but that's not a bad problem to have.
You only bring Trubisky in as backup if you've got a vet starting. He's the same player as Jones -- not good enough to get you where you want to go.
So we should sign a backup only if he's not as good as Jones? What sense does that make?
No, what I said was it makes no sense to bring in Trubisky when he is essentially already here. Jones is going to be on the team next year because he's cheap, but you could bring in a short term vet who is better (like a Tyrod Taylor). Does it matter? I don't think the answer at QB will be added to the team this offseason.
Enough with the training wheels. We need to bring in a vet backup, it might as well be one who can compete for the job. If Jones isn’t good enough to win I, how in the world would he be the answer?
You're not gonna get him for 1 year at $4M, and we have too many holes and too little cap space to give him big $$. Plus, this new coaching staff won't want to be tied to a QB for multiple years.
IMO, get someone cheaper on a 1-year deal to compete with/back-up Jones. Then, we are not tied to anyone beyond this year and the new coaching staff can make a decision on what direction to go at QB in 2023, after evaluating Jones and NEW GUY for a year, and when the college QB crop will be better and we will have more cap space.
No, what I said was it makes no sense to bring in Trubisky when he is essentially already here. Jones is going to be on the team next year because he's cheap, but you could bring in a short term vet who is better (like a Tyrod Taylor). Does it matter? I don't think the answer at QB will be added to the team this offseason.
I agree that neither Jones or whatever vet backup they bring in will be the long term answer, but if you’ve got to bring in a vet backup, why not make it one good enough to compete? Promising a shot at the job would be an attractive offer.
I haven’t given up on Jones yet either.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
Yeah, Jones is just the unluckiest QB in history, being held back by his coaches and teammates.
The sooner he's off the team, the better off the Giants will be
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
And Jones isn't taking us anywhere either. If we can get something for him, which I doubt, we should do it.
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
false. If Jones fails they lose the ability to recoup any assets via trade, while right now they should be able to get something back for him (with medicals checking out)
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In comment 15574599 Go Terps said:
A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
And you have to bring in competition. Let's face it, even if you like Jones a lot it is obvious he is not a great QB. He has made some incredibly stupid decisions. He has to know that those decisions won't be tolerated. You can only do that with a competitive QB behind him.
Third point is that because he is so injury prone, that has to be concern by Giants management. If you bring in another Glennon then you've rolled the dice on a crappy team any way, and are saying "fuck you" to season ticket holders that might be stuck with a Glennon for too many games, and you are saying "fuck you" to every player on the team.
Overall, posters on here pretend like they are scouts but they are fans. SO the predominate comment would be "it's okay to tank." That's not reality for the players or management until maybe last couple of weeks of the season. If Giants management doesn't get a competitive backup then it means they are complete punting the season if Jones gets hurt for an extended time. No way they should do that to the players on the team or the season ticket holders.
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
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Beating someone out means losing reps and playing time, which Jones needs to get up to speed and give him his best shot
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
Then there will be the consensus that MT shouldn't have even been in the NFL ala Glennon.
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In comment 15574603 Section331 said:
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In comment 15574599 Go Terps said:
A competition means less reps and less opportunity in the new offense
This is such a great comment!
This is stunning. It's incredible how some people stick with Jones...
He has to get up to speed...in year 4!
1. Stick with Jones and hope that with a decent OL and OC he becomes the player you hoped for
2. Go with the Trubiskys and Mariotas, guys who already failed with decent OLs and OCs
None of these guys are appreciably better than Jones, so why waste your time with them? Meanwhile Jones has never had good OL and good OC
Dumping Jones now is like selling after the market drops and locking in your losses. Since the alternatives aren't much better, hang on to the stock and hope it rebounds
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In comment 15574702 Snablats said:
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Beating someone out means losing reps and playing time, which Jones needs to get up to speed and give him his best shot
He doesnt need a QB competition, he needs a real OL and real OC
You can't accept some of the stupid decisions he has made. As a result, you have no one to force him to ensure he doesn't make stupid decisions with the ball.
There should be enough reps if his line is good for a QB in which you think he is good to win the job and be effective if his OL and OC are good enough.
Stop treating him like a 10 year old. Unless you are his mom , g/f, or agent? Show that he can beat out Mitch and as a result Mitch wont get as many reps. If it is that close then Jones isn't that good, right?
Then there will be the consensus that MT shouldn't have even been in the NFL ala Glennon.
What? Consensus from who? From BBI posters?
If Jones fails as you predict, then the Giants have lost nothing
I don't care if it's Trubisky, I don't even like him, but you have to bring in a vet backup anyway, why not make it one who is good enough to push Jones for the starting job? Just handing it to him again in year 4 is simply foolish.
Again, if Jones can't beat out a journeyman for the job, then we have our answer on him. I don't see how that is hard to figure out.
None of these guys are appreciably better than Jones, so why waste your time with them? Meanwhile Jones has never had good OL and good OC
Dumping Jones now is like selling after the market drops and locking in your losses. Since the alternatives aren't much better, hang on to the stock and hope it rebounds
No reason to dump Jones but you used the words "appreciably better" so the point is they could be better.
And what if Jones gets hurt again? You aren't supposed to plan for a QB that is often hurt? You don't give a shit about the season after that it is apparent he is injury prone but the owners, GM's, players, and the fans with season tickets do.
Just because you don't give a shit doesn't mean everyone else has to.
I argue the same point with posters like Go Terps and BW when they blindly want to change QB;s like we all change our socks.
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
This comment ignores that it was a combination of horrid OL with horrid skill players. DJ had many games where his primary received were Collin Johnson, Pettis, etc. Name a starting QB who had worse receivers than DJ had for most of the year. So, yes, while Herbert and Burrow had bad lines, they had multiple star quality receive and backs on offense. Does that not make it easier to hide an OLs shortcomings?
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In comment 15574504 Bruner4329 said:
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I will say it once again. You put most QBs in this league behind the OLs we have had the past few years none of them would have good stats. If Trubisky played with this OL he would not be running for yards, he would be running for his life.
You guys keep repeating this and it’s simply not true. Look what Herbert and Burrow have played with on the line. Burrow got sacked 9 times and still beat the #1 seed on the road.
This comment ignores that it was a combination of horrid OL with horrid skill players. DJ had many games where his primary received were Collin Johnson, Pettis, etc. Name a starting QB who had worse receivers than DJ had for most of the year. So, yes, while Herbert and Burrow had bad lines, they had multiple star quality receive and backs on offense. Does that not make it easier to hide an OLs shortcomings?
What did Jones do when all his weapons were out there? Toneys best game was with Glennon.
Maybe Burrow has a hand in chase being so good? And we don’t even have to discuss production. Under all that pressure Burrow didn’t make any of the mind numbing mistakes we see Jones make regularly
I'm not saying Jones will ever be burrow. I don't think anyone thinks that. Burrow looks destined to be a top 5 QB. But you don't need a Rodgers, Mahomes etc. to win, and if all you are ever waiting for is that, you're going to be disappointed the vast majority of the time. Eli was never top 5 and oftentimes probably wasn't top 8.
All I and otehrs are saying is that evaluating DJ with a bad OL, and a group receivers that probably would not make the roster for any other team in the NFL is difficult. I'm also saying that everyone wants to point out other QBs who succeed with poor OLs without ignoring the significant deficiencies on offense in addition to the OL
When were his full compliment of weapons all healthy at once?