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Upcoming Salary Cap And How to Make Room

Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:09 pm
Warning: Long Post

OK. So obviously there are going to have to be significant rosters moves to create some cap space for next season. As the Giants sit right now they are about $7 million over the projected cap of $208 million for 2022. The most pressing issue on the team is the horrendous OL and it needs to be addressed both in Free Agency and the draft. Here are a list of players that are no brainers to be cut or traded at this point to free up cap to sign some key players needed for this rebuild.

Cut:

James Bradberry - saves $12,000,000
Sterling Shepard - saves $4,500,000
Kyle Rudolph - saves $5,000,000
Riley Dixon - saves $2,800,000
Davonte Booker - saves $2,125,000
Julian Love - saves $2,540,000

Trade:

Saquon Barkley (for picks, whatever you can get for him. He should not be even considered for this rebuild even if he has a good year you are in no position to pay a RB big bucks) - saves $7,210,000

This will leave the Giants with just shy of $30,000,000 in cap space. Booker is expendable at this point and the Giants will need to draft a RB with one of their 3rd round picks in my opinion or even bring in a cheap option or even keep Booker but I'd rather see them draft 2 RBs, 1 in the 3rd and one later in the draft.

Sign:

Connor Williams, OG - $12,500,000/year
Bradley Bozeman, C - $10,000,000/year

These are the 2 main signings the Giants should look at. Connor Williams had a great year and is 24 years old. He looks like he could be a force for many years if he hits the open market. If Dallas resigns him I would look at Alex Cappa (26 years old) or even Laken Tomlinson (29 years old). Scherff is older at this point and they need to look more towards a 3 year window at this point. Bozeman is 27 years old and is a very solid C that can help stabilize this line.
Gates can act as a swing OL if he does return from that injury. In the draft the Giants will address the RT position with either pick #5 or #7 in my opinion which would leave them with the potential for this OL:

LT - Andrew Thomas
LG - Connor Williams
C - Bradley Bozeman
RG - Shane Lemieux
RT - Charles Cross or Ikem Ekwonu

This process leaves TE as another area the Giants will need to address in the draft as well as potentially another CB with the loss of Bradberry but you could also see what Rodarius Williams and Aaron Robinson can give as a full time starter in year 2. DL will also need to be addressed and hopefully with the other 1st round pick.

Discuss...
I watched Williams carefully in Niners Game  
Jimmycal : 1/25/2022 3:13 pm : link
Given he has been mentioned on here several times as a potential target. I thought he was putrid. Interested to hear what others think.
Not cutting Julian  
section125 : 1/25/2022 3:14 pm : link
Love. You are not replacing him with a better cheaper version.

But, some painful cuts will be coming no doubt.
I would swap Ximines in myself  
Angel Eyes : 1/25/2022 3:15 pm : link
.
You need to set aside about $20M  
kdog77 : 1/25/2022 3:16 pm : link
to sign rookie draft picks.

Cutting Blake Martinez would save another $8.5M.
RE: Not cutting Julian  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15574423 section125 said:
Quote:
Love. You are not replacing him with a better cheaper version.

But, some painful cuts will be coming no doubt.


You actually don't have to in this scenario. I'm just thinking they're locked in to Xavier McKinney and Logan Ryan at this point and it may be best to draft a depth safety in the later rounds at this point. The same could be said about Booker.
RE: You need to set aside about $20M  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15574428 kdog77 said:
Quote:
to sign rookie draft picks.

Cutting Blake Martinez would save another $8.5M.


Effective cap space is more like $10 million. There will certainly be other cuts such as Ximines as someone mentioned above. I was really just putting guys on here that were at least $2 million in savings. Ximines, Bredesonm Colin Johnson, Trent Harris, and some others will certainly be cut as well.
mmmm  
BleedBlue : 1/25/2022 3:21 pm : link
id actually restructure bradberry and martinez. martinez is only 28 and wont command much. If they feel he is recovered he is a nice piece in middle of defense and i think bradberry still produces. id extend both to free space.

Id cut the rest though. I also wouldnt trade barkley. you are selling WAY too low. Sign a VET OL and draft 2 high and if OL is rebuilt you will get a better understanding is barkley is truly toast. you will also do a huge favor for jones but really the new franchise guy whether he is added in 22 or 23
Love the cut list  
Go Terps : 1/25/2022 3:22 pm : link
If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.
RE: mmmm  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15574438 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
id actually restructure bradberry and martinez. martinez is only 28 and wont command much. If they feel he is recovered he is a nice piece in middle of defense and i think bradberry still produces. id extend both to free space.

Id cut the rest though. I also wouldnt trade barkley. you are selling WAY too low. Sign a VET OL and draft 2 high and if OL is rebuilt you will get a better understanding is barkley is truly toast. you will also do a huge favor for jones but really the new franchise guy whether he is added in 22 or 23


My issue with Barkley is that if he does have a good year he is set to get paid after next season. I can't see any scenario in which you sign him to any deal at this point. RB is not worth the investment that he would likely demand especially after having a good year. If the Giants build a good OL getting a RB that produces is not hard especially if you take 2 RBs in the next 2 drafts in the 3rd round or later.
RE: Love the cut list  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15574439 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.


There absolutely is and will be in my opinion. I was really just geared in on guys that were saving at least $2 million.
Nice work...  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 3:26 pm : link
100% agree with all of the suggestions, including, smartly, trading SB.
I think  
Kevin in Annapolis : 1/25/2022 3:27 pm : link
This is a good start, not sure I would include Love though. For his price, he is pretty good.
Remember  
Biteymax22 : 1/25/2022 3:28 pm : link
That as far as trades go the original signing team eats the bonus portion and the team that trades for the player only takes on the remaining salary.

This is specifically important as Bradberry likely has decent trade value because of this as his cap number would be about 13mil for the team trading for him.

If someone has cap space this isn't bad for someone that can play CB1 at a fairly high level. For reference 13mil a year would put him around CB15 in salary.
No can do  
JFIB : 1/25/2022 3:28 pm : link
Sorry but I can't cut Bradberry, we need him. Yes he wasn't as good this year as he was last year but that was true for the whole team. A new coach and a new system and he may be back to pro-bowl form.

Also, I'm not trading Saquan in the off-season. His value is in the crapper right now. There is a very good chance he comes back next season looking more like he did in his rookie year. I would look to trade him during the season when he hopefully looks more like his old self and before he gets hurt again.

Julian Love has more than earned his spot for what he gets paid, so I'm keeping him as well.
You need money to replace those cut  
kelly : 1/25/2022 3:29 pm : link
Not going to fill all positions with draft picks.

Here is an idea. Trade Bradberry and his 12 million to a team that can give us back a solid starting OL man getting paid say 6 million.

We save 6 million and get an OL starter and the other team gets a starting cornerback for effectively 6 million a year.

Win win for both teams
RE: I think  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15574455 Kevin in Annapolis said:
Quote:
This is a good start, not sure I would include Love though. For his price, he is pretty good.


Who knows, maybe he has some sort of trade value as well. I think he is expendable on this roster right now with McKinney and Ryan locked into the S position.
...  
christian : 1/25/2022 3:31 pm : link
The Giants have 51 players signed right now. Assuming they make all of their picks, the Giants are effectively $19,638,213 over the cap per OTC for the start of the offseason 51 player cap.

As a reminder during the offseason only top 51 salaries have to fit below the cap. Not all of the draft picks will hit that criteria.

There are a number of ways to trim down that number, but that is the challenge they face today.

RE: RE: Not cutting Julian  
section125 : 1/25/2022 3:32 pm : link
In comment 15574430 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574423 section125 said:


Quote:


Love. You are not replacing him with a better cheaper version.

But, some painful cuts will be coming no doubt.



You actually don't have to in this scenario. I'm just thinking they're locked in to Xavier McKinney and Logan Ryan at this point and it may be best to draft a depth safety in the later rounds at this point. The same could be said about Booker.


There are only so many picks in the draft. Love is almost starting caliber at CB and safety. I do think some of the CBs they got last year are pretty decent. Not sure he fits in with the future, true.

I do not disagree on cutting more players and re-booting
RE: You need money to replace those cut  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15574461 kelly said:
Quote:
Not going to fill all positions with draft picks.

Here is an idea. Trade Bradberry and his 12 million to a team that can give us back a solid starting OL man getting paid say 6 million.

We save 6 million and get an OL starter and the other team gets a starting cornerback for effectively 6 million a year.

Win win for both teams


You really don't though. Bradberry is replaced in house by either Williams or Robinson. Dixon you can get an UDFA P for. Shepard can absolutely be replaced by Toney and you can draft a WR with one of the picks. Rudolph can be replaced by a draft pick and a cheaper FA and the same can be said about the RB's.
RE: No can do  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15574460 JFIB said:
Quote:
Sorry but I can't cut Bradberry, we need him. Yes he wasn't as good this year as he was last year but that was true for the whole team. A new coach and a new system and he may be back to pro-bowl form.

Also, I'm not trading Saquan in the off-season. His value is in the crapper right now. There is a very good chance he comes back next season looking more like he did in his rookie year. I would look to trade him during the season when he hopefully looks more like his old self and before he gets hurt again.

Julian Love has more than earned his spot for what he gets paid, so I'm keeping him as well.


I think it's important to understand that this team is not a playoff team next year. Bradberry should not be equated into a rebuild. If they can trade his massive contract then you absolutely do it but if not he has to be cut.
Don't cut Bradberry or Love and don't trade Barkley  
Snablats : 1/25/2022 3:36 pm : link
I do agree with signing a Veteran Center and a guard. Lemieux isn't good, draft another guard
a few quick thoughts  
One Man Thrill Ride : 1/25/2022 3:37 pm : link

- with Engram, Peppers, and Hernandez departing as scheduled UFAs, they figure to factor into the compensatory pick formula for 2023.

- returning to the premium FA market would not only result in more possibilities of the team overpaying for veteran talent, but also negating the comp pick gains from those departing FAs

- given the longview of a rebuild, augmenting the '23 draft capital might be most sensible. whereas expensive incoming FAs figure to be albatrosses eventually. think of how Gettleman went in on Solder as a short-term fix, and how crippling that contract would become when the team needed financial flexibility to course correct.

- trading Barkley is optimistic. he's a pending FA in 2023, and coming off his worst professional season. there might be a minimal trade market for him. some may say "take anything," but once again consider how the comp pick formula can work too the advantage of a team who avoids the premium FA market. another team might off a 5th today; however, if he has a bounce back seasons and signs a big deal somewhere, that could equal a 3rd round comp pick.
Connor Williams  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/25/2022 3:37 pm : link
Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.
...  
christian : 1/25/2022 3:38 pm : link
The most interesting player re: cap hit is Logan Ryan.

It's not clear how much of his 2022 salary is guaranteed. There was conflicting reporting at the time, and the cap sites do not know for sure.

If his salary is not guaranteed, Ryan is a great candidate to cut.

RE: RE: You need money to replace those cut  
Snablats : 1/25/2022 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15574477 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574461 kelly said:


Quote:


Not going to fill all positions with draft picks.

Here is an idea. Trade Bradberry and his 12 million to a team that can give us back a solid starting OL man getting paid say 6 million.

We save 6 million and get an OL starter and the other team gets a starting cornerback for effectively 6 million a year.

Win win for both teams



You really don't though. Bradberry is replaced in house by either Williams or Robinson. Dixon you can get an UDFA P for. Shepard can absolutely be replaced by Toney and you can draft a WR with one of the picks. Rudolph can be replaced by a draft pick and a cheaper FA and the same can be said about the RB's.

Williams and Robinson are slot Corners not boundry corners
RE: No can do  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 3:38 pm : link
In comment 15574460 JFIB said:
Quote:
Sorry but I can't cut Bradberry, we need him. Yes he wasn't as good this year as he was last year but that was true for the whole team. A new coach and a new system and he may be back to pro-bowl form.

Also, I'm not trading Saquan in the off-season. His value is in the crapper right now. There is a very good chance he comes back next season looking more like he did in his rookie year. I would look to trade him during the season when he hopefully looks more like his old self and before he gets hurt again.

Julian Love has more than earned his spot for what he gets paid, so I'm keeping him as well.


You trade SB now because just as much as you believe he gets back to his rookie form I think there is just as much of a chance he gets hurt again.
RE: Connor Williams  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15574484 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.


Your friend is used to Zach Martin. Connor Williams had a good year, not great, and is only 24 years old. I like the risk/reward with him a lot. You could easily look at Alex Cappa too if you don't like Williams.
Bradberry is not on my preferred cut list at the moment  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 3:45 pm : link
Didn't have a good year in 2021, but very much did in 2020. Organization not strong at evaluating CBs (maybe Schoen is...not sure), so until that changes he stays.

If you trade him, then fine. But if that is the case I would see if Golladay could go first...
RE: RE: Connor Williams  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/25/2022 3:47 pm : link
In comment 15574490 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574484 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.



Your friend is used to Zach Martin. Connor Williams had a good year, not great, and is only 24 years old. I like the risk/reward with him a lot. You could easily look at Alex Cappa too if you don't like Williams.


No, he's trash.

He had 17 penalties, including 14 for holding this yr.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillCo00/penalties/
 
christian : 1/25/2022 3:47 pm : link
Bradberry is an interesting case as well. He had an abysmal season and will be 29.

I’m not sure the trade market for him will be as healthy as some might expect. At a 13.4M price tag, teams very well might wait out the Giants to cut him.
RE: RE: RE: Connor Williams  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 3:53 pm : link
In comment 15574503 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574490 Doubledeuce22 said:


Quote:


In comment 15574484 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.



Your friend is used to Zach Martin. Connor Williams had a good year, not great, and is only 24 years old. I like the risk/reward with him a lot. You could easily look at Alex Cappa too if you don't like Williams.



No, he's trash.

He had 17 penalties, including 14 for holding this yr.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillCo00/penalties/


I completely disagree. Does he need to cut down on penalties? Absolutely. 0.13 sacks allowed a game and 1 hurry/game will completely disagree with you calling him trash. He is more than adequate and again is only 24 years old. The ceiling is there.
What about the defense  
Bruner4329 : 1/25/2022 3:55 pm : link
You get rid of Martinez you better come up with a solid option at LB. Arguably we have had the worst set of LBs in this league for the last 5 years. After Martinez there is no one on this roster that has any semblance of being an NFL linebacker. I absolutely do not want to see another season of Crowder linebacker. The guy plainly stinks. I will say it again aster Martinez the best LB we had is Smith playing on one good leg.
if i'm armchair GM  
GiantsFan84 : 1/25/2022 3:55 pm : link
solder
gates
ximines
shep
dixon
rudolph
i'd also give real thought to cutting blake martinez

players i'd try to trade
dexter lawrence
graham gano
barkley
jones
RE: Connor Williams  
Rave7 : 1/25/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15574484 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.

I agree with you. My friend who’s also huge cowboys fan, want him out of his team asap. High expectations but huge failure. I watched him 49ers gameto see how he looked and he was terrible.
I would rather save money on him and draft rookie guard than Williams getting 12-13 mil. No thanks.
surprised Martinez not mentioned  
GiantGrit : 1/25/2022 3:59 pm : link
Yes ILB is slim already but I don't see him back.
RE: What about the defense  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 4:00 pm : link
In comment 15574520 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
You get rid of Martinez you better come up with a solid option at LB. Arguably we have had the worst set of LBs in this league for the last 5 years. After Martinez there is no one on this roster that has any semblance of being an NFL linebacker. I absolutely do not want to see another season of Crowder linebacker. The guy plainly stinks. I will say it again aster Martinez the best LB we had is Smith playing on one good leg.


I don't think Martinez should be cut. Restructure him. Draft another Edge rushers with one of the 2 1sts.
Wow ...  
Beer Man : 1/25/2022 4:03 pm : link
I bet Schone has you on speed dial
RE: Wow ...  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 4:05 pm : link
In comment 15574541 Beer Man said:
Quote:
I bet Schone has you on speed dial


Wow. Imagine if you actually knew his name.
RE: RE: Connor Williams  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15574526 Rave7 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574484 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Had a good year?

Lol. He’s a penalty machine.

I was golfing with a Dallas fan buddy of mine yesterday and he literally said he would cut him and play anyone else on that line. He said if you’ve sucked for 4 years, wtf are are waiting for? Get rid of him.


I agree with you. My friend who’s also huge cowboys fan, want him out of his team asap. High expectations but huge failure. I watched him 49ers gameto see how he looked and he was terrible.
I would rather save money on him and draft rookie guard than Williams getting 12-13 mil. No thanks.


Again, you can look at Cappa as well. 26 years old and solid.
RE: RE: Wow ...  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 4:07 pm : link
In comment 15574545 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574541 Beer Man said:


Quote:


I bet Schone has you on speed dial



Wow. Imagine if you actually knew his name.


Well played.
I'd wager 2022  
JonC : 1/25/2022 4:08 pm : link
will be more about taking their cap medicine and moving out guys who are not part of the core solution moving forward, piling up draft assets, preserving cap space, and figuring out what to do with Jones, SB, etc.
before going full offseason simulation here's the starting point  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 4:13 pm : link
which per OTC is (details below):
12m free in 2022
100m+ available in 2023
200m+ available in 2024

you get to that starting point cutting Solder, Rudolph, Booker, Dixon, and Shepard (june 1). all simple obvious moves.

12m is also the cap room OTC estimates for the rookie pool - so essentially we have found the bare minimum point to sign rookies and minimum salary players.

If you want to spend from there (which they should) it becomes choose your own adventure because money needs to move around. Here are some of those options.

Bradberry's cap # is 21m and if traded frees up $12m. His cap number for an acquiring team is around $9m. That seems a pretty good bargain relative to UFA prices so I'd expect some teams to be interested in trading for him. Or you can extend him and bring the cap number down to a flatter AAV for a few years (like say 12-15m). It probably makes sense to do one or the other vs. letting him play out the year. Solid corners are hard to find and he's only entering his a29 year. he plays a style that could/should age gracefully. justifiable decision either way but probably wouldn't trade a starting CB for less than 3rd because with a strong year he could bring that back in a comp pick.

Trading Barkley would save his full $7m cap #. can you get enough to make that worthwhile? A risk free 1 year 7m cap # is as cheap of a lotto ticket as you can get so he seems a great buy low. selling low seems riskier than holding.

A Martinez extension could bring his cap # down (currently $14m) - that might be a good idea since he's not in a great spot in terms of leverage. Can they get him under contract for a few years under $10m against the cap? Or do you trade him? An acquiring team would probably be willing to risk a 5m cap hit, though LB's don't typically bring back much in trade.

Trading Logan Ryan saves another $6m or so. He's a good leader but they may have the depth to replace him. so this one would depend on whether there's a taker at any price. Cutting him doesn't save much money so the other options would be pay cut or restructuring.

Trading Golladay (saves $7.5m) but seems unlikely given how bad he played. Trading A. Jackson (saves $6m) could make sense depending on what the outcome is with Bradberry. I think someone would take Jackson since the cap number for an acquiring team would be $9m.

Leonard Williams is best candidate to restructure as it's hard to envision getting enough trade compensation back to justify trading him.

All in all I expect Schoen to have a lot of guys on the trade block. And ultimately trade more than 1 of the guys listed above. I don't expect a very active free agency but I do think they would be smart to make 1 or 2 tactical acquisitions - like a rock solid OL.

Also kudos to Abrams bc it appears he gave the organization a parachute structuring a lot of these deals to create favorable cap #'s for acquiring teams in trades.
Cutting  
JonC : 1/25/2022 4:16 pm : link
cutting Solder, Rudolph, Booker, Dixon, and Shepard (june 1) only gets us to $12M in cap space?
Leonard Wiliams should be put on the trade block  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 4:18 pm : link
before he starts getting too complacent by being a NY Giant..
RE: RE: RE: Not cutting Julian  
Section331 : 1/25/2022 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15574472 section125 said:
Quote:

There are only so many picks in the draft. Love is almost starting caliber at CB and safety. I do think some of the CBs they got last year are pretty decent. Not sure he fits in with the future, true.

I do not disagree on cutting more players and re-booting


Love is one guy I would hesitate to put on the cut list, but I disagree that he is a starting caliber CB. S, sure, but he is at best a rotational guy at CB.
RE: Cutting  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 4:25 pm : link
In comment 15574577 JonC said:
Quote:
cutting Solder, Rudolph, Booker, Dixon, and Shepard (june 1) only gets us to $12M in cap space?


correct per the OTC calculator right now but with 1 caveat - they have the NYG currently sitting $7m in the red. So they have those moves saving $19m, bringing the cap to +12m. it's possible that current -7m in the red is one of those things that changes when the cap calculation switches back to the offseason cap rules or something.
Bradberry's not a terrible contract.  
Mike from SI : 1/25/2022 4:27 pm : link
I'd try to restructure it and keep him. Someone has to play on the field. (Unless your goal is 100% tank, then by all means jettison everyone.)
RE: Leonard Wiliams should be put on the trade block  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15574582 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
before he starts getting too complacent by being a NY Giant..


That's a possibility. Traded his cap # is 16.6m which is probably slightly below market relative to what he'd be worth on the open market as a UFA, without any signing bonus liability, and the trading team would get 2 years since he's not entering a walk year.

it would be hilarious if after all the arguing the giants returned the 3rd round pick (or maybe even improved it).
RE: ...  
santacruzom : 1/25/2022 4:31 pm : link
In comment 15574487 christian said:
Quote:
The most interesting player re: cap hit is Logan Ryan.

It's not clear how much of his 2022 salary is guaranteed. There was conflicting reporting at the time, and the cap sites do not know for sure.

If his salary is not guaranteed, Ryan is a great candidate to cut.


It's probably safe to assume the worst case scenario.
RE: Bradberry's not a terrible contract.  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15574595 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
I'd try to restructure it and keep him. Someone has to play on the field. (Unless your goal is 100% tank, then by all means jettison everyone.)


since he's entering a walk year it would be an extension (adding new years) not a restructure.

I could go either way. He's young enough that I'd be comfortable adding 1 or 2 years and I agree with you someone has to play on the field. Bradberry seems like a good guy and has proven he's solid/reliable.

But if you can get a 2nd or 3rd and save $12m to address other needs, that's tempting too. CB would become a big need in the draft but with Jackson, Robinson, and Holmes the depth chart has some depth. And if you get a 2nd day pick you can add another CB who probably won't be as good as Bradberry day 1 but should have that kind of cost controlled upside.
OTC has it that cutting him pre-6/1 saves less than $1m  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15574487 christian said:
Quote:
The most interesting player re: cap hit is Logan Ryan.

It's not clear how much of his 2022 salary is guaranteed. There was conflicting reporting at the time, and the cap sites do not know for sure.

If his salary is not guaranteed, Ryan is a great candidate to cut.


Trading him on the other hand saves 6.275m and his cap hit for the acquiring team is just $5.95m.

I would think there's a team out there with room willing to dump a late round pick on him.
RE: RE: mmmm  
RHPeel : 1/25/2022 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15574444 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574438 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


id actually restructure bradberry and martinez. martinez is only 28 and wont command much. If they feel he is recovered he is a nice piece in middle of defense and i think bradberry still produces. id extend both to free space.

Id cut the rest though. I also wouldnt trade barkley. you are selling WAY too low. Sign a VET OL and draft 2 high and if OL is rebuilt you will get a better understanding is barkley is truly toast. you will also do a huge favor for jones but really the new franchise guy whether he is added in 22 or 23



My issue with Barkley is that if he does have a good year he is set to get paid after next season. I can't see any scenario in which you sign him to any deal at this point. RB is not worth the investment that he would likely demand especially after having a good year. If the Giants build a good OL getting a RB that produces is not hard especially if you take 2 RBs in the next 2 drafts in the 3rd round or later.


Yep. From every angle I see, trading Barkley looks like the right move. The only case where it wouldn't be would be if you thought you had a shot at a Super Bowl next year.
moving on from Bradberry via trade  
bigbluehoya : 1/25/2022 5:09 pm : link
makes some sense, and could jibe well with the idea of Stingley being one of this year's few blue chips.
Connor Williams got benched this year?  
GMen72 : 1/25/2022 5:16 pm : link
They put him back in because the backup was worse...but Williams didn't have a great year?
Money to pay to top 10 picks...  
GMen72 : 1/25/2022 5:17 pm : link
has to be factored in also.
Bradberry would be the top of the list  
Mighty1 : 1/25/2022 5:33 pm : link
He was never known for his speed and seems to have lost even more speed. He has great route/play recognition and that helps him be in the right position but one wrong step and he does not have the speed to recover. It's happened several times this year against receivers with good but not great speed. For 21mil that's just not worth it.

Martinez, Logan Ryan, Galladay would be on my trade block as long as its a good return including 2023 draft picks

Bradberry, Shep, Dixon, Logan Ryan(if no trade partner), Solder would top my list of cuts

Leonard Williams, Adoree would be on my restructure/extend list

Bradberry and Barkley  
DavidinBMNY : 1/25/2022 5:50 pm : link
have some trade value IMHO. Curious if anyone else thinks so. Not a lot but i don't think you have to flat cut them.

I'd take a 23 '2 for either, which wouldn't be that much to give up i your another team.
barkley scenarios  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 5:50 pm : link
this year he has a $7m cap#.

if he plays well yet they dont want to extend him long term, the can let him walk and try to get a comp pick.
or tag him - which is quite affordable for a rb (2022 tag is projected to be $9.5m). they could conceivably do that twice.

so the only 2 questions are:
what pick is on the table now?
what can the 7m buy in other players?

unless it's a 2nd or higher it's unlikely that they will be tempted by the 7m savings. pff projects Cordarelle Patterson (2 years $12m) and Fournette (2 years $16m) as the top 2 in UFA. better off playing the lotto ticket that barkley gets closer to what he was pre-injury in the 2nd year back - as Nick Chubb has done post-UGA (CLE just gave him a 3 year $36m extension, 20m guaranteed).
connor williams sucks  
GiantsFan84 : 1/25/2022 6:02 pm : link
i don't know why we'd want him or why we're talking about him so much
RE: connor williams sucks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/25/2022 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15574767 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
i don't know why we'd want him or why we're talking about him so much


Yeah, he's just a name people remember from the past.
RE: RE: Leonard Wiliams should be put on the trade block  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15574597 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15574582 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


before he starts getting too complacent by being a NY Giant..



That's a possibility. Traded his cap # is 16.6m which is probably slightly below market relative to what he'd be worth on the open market as a UFA, without any signing bonus liability, and the trading team would get 2 years since he's not entering a walk year.

it would be hilarious if after all the arguing the giants returned the 3rd round pick (or maybe even improved it).


My guess is he is one of the few attractive pieces on our roster to other GMs. I think we could do better than a 3rd.

And I wish I could say that ridiculous ride with Team LW was funny.

Just yet another sad episode of "How My GM Wasted 4 Years of Being a NY Giant Fan" to me...
RE: connor williams sucks  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 6:19 pm : link
In comment 15574767 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
i don't know why we'd want him or why we're talking about him so much


He is like a nod above Average I would suggest.

Nothing special that he should be targeted for our upcoming rebuild...
Depending on offers  
Jerry in_DC : 1/25/2022 6:25 pm : link
Id consider keeping Barkley and trying to trade him at the deadline next year. I think the only way a team would give up anything is if he has his burst back.

That guy - even if it's not all the way back - has value to a good team. I know people are way down on him, but he is a weapon if he gets most of his athleticism back.

I don't think he's tradeable now. So it depends on your value of 2022 cap space vs. Potential future draft pick return
RE: No can do  
OC2.0 : 1/25/2022 6:27 pm : link
In comment 15574460 JFIB said:
Quote:
Sorry but I can't cut Bradberry, we need him. Yes he wasn't as good this year as he was last year but that was true for the whole team. A new coach and a new system and he may be back to pro-bowl form.

Also, I'm not trading Saquan in the off-season. His value is in the crapper right now. There is a very good chance he comes back next season looking more like he did in his rookie year. I would look to trade him during the season when he hopefully looks more like his old self and before he gets hurt again.

Julian Love has more than earned his spot for what he gets paid, so I'm keeping him as well.

Agree 100%
eyeballing UFA there are 2 OL who catch my eye  
Eric on Li : 1/25/2022 6:39 pm : link
1. Ryan Jensen - center is important and not a position you want to trust to rookie or a guy coming back from a really bad injury (like gates) or a guy looking for a prove it contract if you can help it (like price). In Buffalo Beane/Schoen recognized that and signed Mitch Morse to a 4 year $44m deal. Jensen is 30 years old so while not an ideal age he may be the ideal player for 2-3 years. He projects to get a 3 year 30m contract and TB is up against the cap. He made his first pro bowl this year and plays with an edge this team could really use. Has started every game since 2017. PFF doesn't rate him as a dominator but if he can be had at a reasonable price it would open up a lot of flexibility filling the rest of the line out.

2. James Daniels - he's bounced around all 3 interior positions so may not be the kind of plug and play Jensen is but what's really stand out about him is that he's on the ascent and still very young. He entered the draft at 20 years old, went in the 2nd round so he avoided the 5th year option, so after 4 years he's entering UFA at 24. pff thinks he played his best football at RG this year but over his career he has graded out especially well in pass blocking (credited with just 4 sacks allowed in 48 starts). PFF projects 5 years $50m.

so either would cost around $10m in AAV, which there are lots of ways mentioned above to maneuver for and seems like a good investment to correct the mistake made letting Zeitler go. with 2 plus starters it becomes more viable to let Bredesen, Lemieux, Gates, Price, and some rookies (ideally including at least 1 first rounder) battle it out for the other spots.

especially if they can finally land an elite OL coach like munchak.
Everything depends on the real question  
give66 : 1/25/2022 7:18 pm : link
Was Shoen hired with the win with Jones mantra and we bandaid the roster in 2022? Or is it full blown rebuild and grab a QB in the 2023 draft? I'll take door number two Monty.
RE: OTC has it that cutting him pre-6/1 saves less than $1m  
christian : 1/25/2022 7:22 pm : link
In comment 15574618 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Trading him on the other hand saves 6.275m and his cap hit for the acquiring team is just $5.95m.

I would think there's a team out there with room willing to dump a late round pick on him.


The cap savings widget on OTC isn't capturing the nuance of what he's reporting.

Jason at OTC is estimating 5.5M of the 9.25M is guaranteed on March 17.

If that is true the Giants can cut him before March 17 and save the full 9.25M in 2022 salary.

The Giants would incur 5.9M in dead money in 2022 (balance of the remaining bonus).

The Giants would save 9.25M in real cap dollars, and his cap charge would go down from 12.225M to 5.9m in 2022 -- identical to being traded.
RE: Love the cut list  
Maryland Blows : 1/25/2022 8:18 pm : link
In comment 15574439 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.


Of course you do. I think I will wait and see how the new GM evaluates our roster.
RE: RE: Love the cut list  
Go Terps : 1/25/2022 9:13 pm : link
In comment 15574996 Maryland Blows said:
Quote:
In comment 15574439 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.



Of course you do. I think I will wait and see how the new GM evaluates our roster.


Hey look - the dupe wants to wait and see...
RE: if i'm armchair GM  
Bruner4329 : 1/25/2022 9:19 pm : link
In comment 15574522 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
solder
gates
ximines
shep
dixon
rudolph
i'd also give real thought to cutting blake martinez

players i'd try to trade
dexter lawrence
graham gano
barkley
jones


Glad your not. Trading Gano is dumb. He is almost automatic and can probably be kicking at this level for another 5 years.
Julian Love  
cosmicj : 1/25/2022 9:27 pm : link
First of all, he has a cap hit of $1.2mm, so Diubkedeuce’s number in the post is too high.

Secondly, I think Love is a smart, capable player who is young enough to contribute when the Giants return to contention. I’d like to see us sign him to a reasonable second contract.

Apart from that, good post. I think we need to face the music and trade or cut Bradberry. He is on the downward slope of his career.
 
christian : 1/25/2022 10:26 pm : link
Cosmic I agree. I think there’s a great chance Love and McKinney are the starting safeties. Love is the type of guy they should be evaluating for a future. Definitely not Logan Ryan at the end of his career.
RE: Julian Love  
kdog77 : 1/25/2022 11:05 pm : link
In comment 15575050 cosmicj said:
Quote:
First of all, he has a cap hit of $1.2mm, so Diubkedeuce’s number in the post is too high.

Secondly, I think Love is a smart, capable player who is young enough to contribute when the Giants return to contention. I’d like to see us sign him to a reasonable second contract.

Apart from that, good post. I think we need to face the music and trade or cut Bradberry. He is on the downward slope of his career.


Love has total cap charge of $2.7M in 2022 with $2.5M in base salary. If Giants cut him they save $2.5M on the cap. Love is a good utility player for nickel/dime packages and was steal as 4th round draft pick, but he is a bit undersized to be a full time safety and has gotten beat deep a few times. If Schoen and Daboll want to do full rebuild they may keep Love for 1 more year, but unlikely he stays long term.

Bradberry, Martinez and Logan all took "cap friendly" deals from Gettleman 2 years ago and it looks like the piper has come to collect his due on the cap.

Bradberry is getting paid like top 10 CB but is not producing anywhere near the value of his contract. I think the Giants may try to extend him b/c at least he has been consistent but I would rather trade or cut him to clear the space as well.

Martinez is overpaid for a MLB that only really shows up on the meaningless tackles stat line. He will be coming off serious knee injury that might reduce his speed and effectiveness. I think the Giants bite the bullet and cut him to save $8.5M in 2022.

Ryan is tougher to move on from b/c his contract is basically guaranteed for 2022 and it is doubtful the Giants can trade him at this point in his career. Cutting him gets the Giants nothing.

Williams and Golloday are basically untouchable until 2023.

The Giants are at an interesting place b/c with new GM and new HC there will be less inclined to value the current roster front office personnel. If Mara was serious about moving team in different direction then there could be lot of new names/faces in the locker room in 2022. There will be no sacred cows, scholarships or personal woobies like Ebner.
RE: RE: RE: Love the cut list  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 11:10 pm : link
In comment 15575036 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15574996 Maryland Blows said:


Quote:


In comment 15574439 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.



Of course you do. I think I will wait and see how the new GM evaluates our roster.



Hey look - the dupe wants to wait and see...


Have you figured out yet who this is? Not a tough one.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Love the cut list  
Go Terps : 1/25/2022 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15575183 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15575036 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15574996 Maryland Blows said:


Quote:


In comment 15574439 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If there's a way to make that list longer, do it.



Of course you do. I think I will wait and see how the new GM evaluates our roster.



Hey look - the dupe wants to wait and see...



Have you figured out yet who this is? Not a tough one.


No idea. I'm terrible at identifying these mopes.
RE: …  
Jimmy Googs : 1/25/2022 11:16 pm : link
In comment 15575143 christian said:
Quote:
Cosmic I agree. I think there’s a great chance Love and McKinney are the starting safeties. Love is the type of guy they should be evaluating for a future. Definitely not Logan Ryan at the end of his career.


Love is an interesting piece. One of the few guys last year on the Defense that may not have regressed.

But he still doesn’t show enough talent to me to be a plus type player. Good roster guy but not a value added starter.
 
christian : 1/25/2022 11:32 pm : link
Oh I agree he’s a guy you let play out his rookie deal, and then offer him a low end starter contract.
RE: connor williams sucks  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/25/2022 11:45 pm : link
In comment 15574767 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
i don't know why we'd want him or why we're talking about him so much


I really don’t agree. His pressures against and sacks rates are low and he’s very young. Worth taking a look at. If they don’t like him look at Cappa.
RE: RE: OTC has it that cutting him pre-6/1 saves less than $1m  
Eric on Li : 1/26/2022 11:43 am : link
In comment 15574908 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15574618 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


Trading him on the other hand saves 6.275m and his cap hit for the acquiring team is just $5.95m.

I would think there's a team out there with room willing to dump a late round pick on him.



The cap savings widget on OTC isn't capturing the nuance of what he's reporting.

Jason at OTC is estimating 5.5M of the 9.25M is guaranteed on March 17.

If that is true the Giants can cut him before March 17 and save the full 9.25M in 2022 salary.

The Giants would incur 5.9M in dead money in 2022 (balance of the remaining bonus).

The Giants would save 9.25M in real cap dollars, and his cap charge would go down from 12.225M to 5.9m in 2022 -- identical to being traded.


if that's the case then that's good news. i'd imagine they will cut him unless he's willing to restructure / pay cut, which would be best of both worlds.

if he's wanted elsewhere enough that he'd get a bigger pay day than he's due that team would likely trade for him to get a more favorable contract situation without being on the hook for bonus $. doubt it would be more than a 6 or 7 but better than nothing.

if that's not the case then the nyg should have some leverage for the pay cut similar to what they should have done with Zeitler last year.

either way I'd guess they'll have more than $20m available on day 1 of FA with roughly 75% of last year's starters still under contract.

The big decision is whether to extend or trade Bradberry. I would guess there's no pick better than a 3 or 4 so extension is probably the better bet. Add on a couple years at a similar AAV to the original deal (14.5m).
...  
christian : 1/26/2022 1:14 pm : link
Bradberry was statistically one of the worst cover corners in the NFL last year. Extending him into his 30s with any meaningful guarantees would be criminal in my view.

I do think Bradberry has a future in the Logan Ryan cover safety role as he ages. But it's got to be a team friendly arrangement. The Giants would be foolish to get into Logan Ryan v.2 territory with Bradberry.

Kdog  
cosmicj : 1/26/2022 1:22 pm : link
I just checked both Spotrac and OvertheCap and they have identical info on Love’s contract, and it’s a $1.2mm hit in 22. Just as a sniff test, it would be very strange for a 4th rd pick to be earning as much as you say much on a rookie contract.

Googs- I don’t think Love is a star. I think he is a capable, smart player. Many players like that have long careers with teams at reasonable salary levels, but those teams need stable leadership and systems. I’d like to see that develop here and Love be part of the system.
I don’t think Bradberry has the quickness to hang with the  
cosmicj : 1/26/2022 1:23 pm : link
More athletic NFL WRs any more. Whenever I focused on him in games, well … it was an “adventure.”
RE: Kdog  
Jimmy Googs : 1/26/2022 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15576045 cosmicj said:
Quote:
I just checked both Spotrac and OvertheCap and they have identical info on Love’s contract, and it’s a $1.2mm hit in 22. Just as a sniff test, it would be very strange for a 4th rd pick to be earning as much as you say much on a rookie contract.

Googs- I don’t think Love is a star. I think he is a capable, smart player. Many players like that have long careers with teams at reasonable salary levels, but those teams need stable leadership and systems. I’d like to see that develop here and Love be part of the system.


Agree cosmic. Just throwing my 2-cents in here that I don't see Starter material with Love.

He can play in some packages, serviceable and versatile backup but not kind of good enough at anything to. If money fits then fine but not anywhere near starter money. Similar to your views probably...
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