NFT: Does Barry Bonds belong in the HOF?

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Especially if Ortiz gets in.

Nuff said.

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Because for me he was a HOF before he had a giant balloon head and put on about 70 pounds from horse shots.

he’s the best player I’ve ever seen since I started watching baseball in the early 90s. He was a shoe in before the roids too.

We know when he started juicing, and he was a slam dunk, first ballot HOF'er before that.

He was arguably a HOFer before doing steroids.

of course. Figuring out everyone who was and who wasn't using is an impossible task. Guaranteed there are players in/who will be in that used steroids.

Hitters were facing pitchers on steroids. Pitchers were pitching to hitters on steroids.

Bud Selig gets in, while presiding over the steroid era. Managers like Joe Torre are getting in the HOF, while benefitting from plenty of players who used steroids.

do Clemens and A-Rod. No doubt they all belong.

KDavies you nailed it...there are certainly many users and cheaters of other forms in the HOF and more who will be voted in.

absolutely.

Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass?

Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something.

Should he be forgotten in history?

Asterisk him up but he’s absolutely deserving of being in. Pete Rose, Roger, ARod. Yes

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In comment 15574627 bw in dc said:

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Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass? Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something.

How do you know Griffey "did it the right way"?

They should have been in years ago. The hall of fame voting process needs a major overhaul because what they’ve been doing is a total joke.

a resounding YES!

However, there's already guys in the HOF that roided. At this point,might as well let all the cheaters in.

Easy question.

Barry Bonds was a no doubt first ballot Hall of Famer before he touched steroids.

Bonds did what he did. A Hall of Fame plaque won't enhance his achievements, the lack of one won't diminish them. It's just a way for baseball to honor its own. If baseball, as an institution, chooses to honor him, his career won't be any better for it. If they don't, it won't be any worse. Same for Pete Rose, Roger Clemens and Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Bill James observed a long time ago that the HoF really can't do much to honor these guys who put up obviously HoF numbers; it can only insult them by delaying their induction, or by giving them a lesser vote than some other guy. That's the case with Bonds, Clemens and Rose. By numbers, they obviously belong. The baseball HoF makes other considerations part of the choice. So I guess they're insulted.

My opinion of any of them won't be changed by whether they get in or not. I happen to not be on their side, but they did what they did, we saw what we saw. Halls of fame don't get me worked up. Eli will get into Canton,or he won't. He did what he did, we saw what we saw. Clemens and Bonds will get into Cooperstown or they won't. Ortiz will get in or he won't. Whatever. The HoF is a nice place to visit, regardless of who's on the wall.

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He was a three time MVP before he ever did roids. If he had retired after the '98 season, before the cream and the clear, he would have waltzed into the Hall.

None of the cheaters get in, including Ortiz. Bonds didnt have to do it, but he did and now he has to pay the price

I say over and over that the HOF simply needs to create a section about the steriod era and tell the story of the cheaters

I’d bet over half the HRs Bonds hit were off pitchers on roids.

Pudge is already in, and if you think he was clean you should go return the email from Nigeria about that inheritance you’re due.

The quality getting in now pales in comparison to what he did.
The best hitter and pitcher of my lifetime not getting in. I thing Clemens belongs also

If you want an asterisk, you should asterisk that whole era instead of just one player.

one of the greatest of all time.

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. AROD
4. Ortiz

The merits of their HOF candidacies are probably in that order. Bonds and Clemens probably had HOF careers before they even touched PEDs;. Yet, Ortiz gets in and the other three won't. If this does not strike at the legitimacy of the HOF, I really do no know what does. The Hall of Fame is a joke and the writers are a bunch of frauds and phonies. They all get in or none get in. So, any person who votes for Ortiz but not Bonds, Clemens, or Arod, should never vote again.

and it should break loose

This is a disgrace

In comment 15574674 mfsd said:

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I’d bet over half the HRs Bonds hit were off pitchers on roids. Pudge is already in, and if you think he was clean you should go return the email from Nigeria about that inheritance you’re due.

I agree that Rodriguez shouldnt be in (Pudge is Carlton Fisk, I refuse to call anyone else that. Like LT is Taylor not Tomlinson)

Bagwell shouldnt be in either

How can you tell MLB history without Bonds? And is Selig in? If so, that's a joke, seeing how he turned a blind eye to the whole era.

Personally, I don't care if those guys juiced.

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Only if Cooperstown builds a wing for performance enhancing drug users.

They should be in but it must be clear that they cheated and benefited from steroids.

Bonds may have been the greatest position player that I have seen play, but he chose to systematically cheat at the expense of others.
He did not need to do this, but he did. Bad choices have consequences.

In comment 15574645 moze1021 said:

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In comment 15574627 bw in dc said: Quote: Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass? Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something. How do you know Griffey "did it the right way"?

I don't know with 100% certainty. But his career arc - with the injuries and decline in production - tracks to a typical MLB career.

On the other hand, I know with 100% certainty that Bonds used PEDs. So I don't like rewarding that behavior.

In comment 15574687 Essex said:

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1. Bonds 2. Clemens 3. AROD 4. Ortiz The merits of their HOF candidacies are probably in that order. Bonds and Clemens probably had HOF careers before they even touched PEDs;. Yet, Ortiz gets in and the other three won't. If this does not strike at the legitimacy of the HOF, I really do no know what does. The Hall of Fame is a joke and the writers are a bunch of frauds and phonies. They all get in or none get in. So, any person who votes for Ortiz but not Bonds, Clemens, or Arod, should never vote again.

I've yet to hear a principled case for letting Ortiz in and not the other 3. We all know what's going on; the media loves Ortiz and the Red Sox. It's pretty disgraceful.

unfair advantage,
yes he was great hitter early in his career but he screwed up.

Ask Yogi Berra, Ted Williams and Ty Cobb what they think.

Baseball has a strong and powerful history in this country.

The records, the people who played, coached, and walked the straight and narrow.

Think C. Matheson and Lou Gerig.


IMO, keep out all juicers, and keep out Pete Rose while we are at it.

In comment 15574722 mpinmaine said:

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unfair advantage, yes he was great hitter early in his career but he screwed up. Ask Yogi Berra, Ted Williams and Ty Cobb what they think. Baseball has a strong and powerful history in this country. The records, the people who played, coached, and walked the straight and narrow. Think C. Matheson and Lou Gerig. IMO, keep out all juicers, and keep out Pete Rose while we are at it.

I hope you don't fall off your high horse.

In comment 15574706 Archer said:

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Only if Cooperstown builds a wing for performance enhancing drug users. They should be in but it must be clear that they cheated and benefited from steroids. Bonds may have been the greatest position player that I have seen play, but he chose to systematically cheat at the expense of others. He did not need to do this, but he did. Bad choices have consequences.

What about Ortiz? What are the consequences of his cheating, first ballot enshrinement?

Let 'em all in.

In comment 15574693 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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How can you tell MLB history without Bonds?

There's an enormous amount of material presented in the Hall of Fame beyond the plaques for the Hall of Famers. Whether it's Joe Jackson, Pete Rose, Barry Bonds, or anyone else, the Hall's ability to tell the history of the game doesn't depend on those individuals being elected as Hall of Famers.

.... then why even have a Hall of Fame?

but this is one where I can see it both ways, and am not really sure which side I come down on. On one hand, of course he would have been in without the roids; and why should the BBWA be the ultimate moral authority on this issue?

OTOH, is it really fair to the other players of that era who didn't cheat to let him in? or to all the HOF members who didn't cheat? Letting in Bonds arguably cheapens their admission to the HOF.

Cheater.

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but this year is a Today's Game election year, so this December both he and Clemens (and Schilling) will be eligible to be voted in by that committee. So we can look forward to this discussion next year.

in all of this. They had no problem making money hand over fist during the peak of the McGwire-Sosa HR chase, and were perfectly content turning a blind eye to what was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Only when public opinion turned against players using steroids after Canseco’s book did MLB muster up all the sanctimony they could about protecting the integrity of the game, gave us that bullshit Mitchell report that only covered a few teams, and declared the case closed

People also misunderstand the history of PEDs in baseball. Former pitcher Tom House came out and said he and many players were using steroids back in the 60s. There were some obvious steroid guys in the 80s, Brian Downing, Pete Incaviglia, not to mention McGwire and Canseco in their early bash brothers days of the late 80s.

Adjudicating the steroid era based on the few sacrificial lambs that either got caught or outed is hypocritical. By all accounts the number of players who got caught is a small percentage of those who used PEDs for part of all of their careers

Should he get in too?

Bonds deserves it on his non-steroid merits but the steroid achievements go on display with everything else.

I don't care much about baseball though and it doesn't seem to bother real fans so whatever.