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NFT: Does Barry Bonds belong in the HOF?

Jints in Carolina : 1/25/2022 4:31 pm
Yes or no.

Whether you hate him or not, he never failed a drug test. Of course he was doing something, I'm not blind...the dude was twice the size that he was in Pittsburgh....he is an asshole to the media and they hate him.

David Ortiz fails drug test....is great with the media and they love him.

Ortiz will get in and Bonds won't. For me, I think that's a joke.

I say yes. Bonds belongs in the HOF.
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RE: No...  
Section331 : 1/25/2022 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15574627 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass?

Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something.


For all we know, it’s only that Griffey was better at cheating. Should that be the determinative factor for the HOF? HOF voters wanted to keep Piazza out because he had back acne. Do I think Piazza used? Probably, but that is how we get to the point of inducting those smart enough not to get caught.

Although I will add that it probably doesn’t help Bonds’s cause that he was so abjectly blatant about it. His head made him look like a Thanksgiving parade float.
Maybe in a separate room off on the side with an asterisk  
Giant John : 1/25/2022 6:07 pm : link
Over the entrance door. Or the bathroom.
He is one of the greatest  
Amtoft : 1/25/2022 6:08 pm : link
players of all time. Defense, hitting, stealing bases, homeruns, average, walks, on base %, OPS, etc.

What good is a Hall of Fame if you leave out a top 5 player of all time. Even if you want to say well he roided... Ok so have a ton of players and not one of them even came close to what this man did. Off roids he was an easy HoFer first ballot. On roids he the greatest player to ever play.

It is a shame he won't get in, but this is what happens when you let people with biases, agendas, and past history make selections. The Baseball HoF is probably the biggest joke with the way they do selections.
Well, there it is.  
Mad Mike : 1/25/2022 6:17 pm : link
Papi, and Papi alone.
Nonsense  
Tuckrule : 1/25/2022 6:18 pm : link
Named on the mitchell report but it’s ignore because the writers liked him. Amazing
Yes  
GNewGiants : 1/25/2022 6:18 pm : link
So should arod and Clemens. Asinine to keep them out.

And to keep schilling out when he never cheated the game, never committed a crime, or did anything illegal is a shame as well.
RE: Well, there it is.  
Amtoft : 1/25/2022 6:18 pm : link
In comment 15574786 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Papi, and Papi alone.


This is why Baseball HoF is a joke.
they should  
Mook80 : 1/25/2022 6:20 pm : link
close down the hall of fame.

How do you keep guys who were better players than Ortiz out of the HOF but put him in?

The hall of fame with 1 vote became a total farce
Yes without a doubt  
uconngiant : 1/25/2022 6:21 pm : link
He and Roger Clemens should be in the Hall especially if PED Ortiz is
RE: Well, there it is.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/25/2022 6:21 pm : link
In comment 15574786 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
Papi, and Papi alone.


What a joke.
RE: RE: No...  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 6:21 pm : link
In comment 15574762 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574627 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass?

Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something.



For all we know, it’s only that Griffey was better at cheating. Should that be the determinative factor for the HOF? HOF voters wanted to keep Piazza out because he had back acne. Do I think Piazza used? Probably, but that is how we get to the point of inducting those smart enough not to get caught.

Although I will add that it probably doesn’t help Bonds’s cause that he was so abjectly blatant about it. His head made him look like a Thanksgiving parade float.


I forget where I read it - maybe SI? - but apparently one off-season Bonds was at Griffey's house in Florida and expressed his anger at guys like McGuire and Sosa getting more attention than him. He thought he was the better player - which he was - and seemed to suggest he was going to do something about it...
Definitely  
NoPeanutz : 1/25/2022 6:22 pm : link
the 'no steroids' standard is not a universal standard in MLB. It is only applied to a few guys on the Yankees, Bonds, Sosa and MacGuire.
That is bullshit.
And if MLB didnt want guys using steroids and shattering records, then they had plenty of years to pretend to give a shit. That ship has sailed, and they cannot unring that bell. Bonds didnt disrespect Ruth and Aaron- Selig and the owners did.
The best way to hold these owners who 'ruined' the history books accountable is to celebrate the steroid guys along with everyone else.

There is no good argument for holding some guys out and letting some guys off the hook, and no universal standard that can be applied. Forget Griffey. Do we know guys like Jeter didn't use steroids? Do steroids only matter if someone hits 50HR in a season? Can you skate by with up to 49?
At least a guy like Arod came clean. At least a guy like Pettitte came clean. Did they come clean? Are they still hiding something, but only getting out in front of the story as a PR tactic? At least a guy like Bonds or MacGuire has nothing to hide, bc it's obvious. Letting Papi and the GriffeyJrs in only rewards subterfuge.

And letting Bonds in along with Griffey and Papi gives people license to celebrate all the records in context, or to dismiss the whole era as they see fit. Holding some guys out and letting some guys in without an universally applied standard forces fans to accept the moral judgment of the BBWA scumbags and depraved owners.

As a baseball fan who loved watching Griffey and can reluctantly appreciate the infuriatingly Eli-like villain status of Arias, this is the only solution for me.
What a joke  
illmatic : 1/25/2022 6:22 pm : link
.
Hahaha  
bceagle05 : 1/25/2022 6:22 pm : link
So ridiculous. If Ortiz didn’t do PEDs, no one did PEDs.
Yes  
Nick in LA : 1/25/2022 6:23 pm : link
Best player of my lifetime.
Ortiz in as expected  
section125 : 1/25/2022 6:23 pm : link
and Bonds and Clemens not according to reports. Have not heard of any others in...
RE: Ortiz in as expected  
NoPeanutz : 1/25/2022 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15574812 section125 said:
Quote:
and Bonds and Clemens not according to reports. Have not heard of any others in...


Stupid and gross.
Ortiz  
Mook80 : 1/25/2022 6:25 pm : link
failed a steroid test.

Something Barry Bonds never did. Something Mike Piazza never did.

How do you keep other guys out for steroids and put Ortiz in? Every voter who hasn't voted for Clemens, ARod, Bonds and Piazza but voted for Ortiz should immediately lose their vote.

Ortiz was the posterboy of a guy who was going to be out of baseball without steroids. Changed his name, started injecting himself, and went from a guy who was non-tendered as a Twin to destroying baseballs as a Red Sox player.

I always thought..  
moze1021 : 1/25/2022 6:27 pm : link
That writers were making a point and that they would vote Bonds and Clemens in on their last year..

What a shame..a travesty...

We reward being better at hiding cheating...and Bonds/Clemens don't get in because they were the best on the field and had biggest targets on their backs.

you can't get all the cheaters out of the HOF, then this just doesn't make sense.
LMAO  
terz22 : 1/25/2022 6:29 pm : link
what a total and utter farce. Something needs to be done these sports writers are absolute clowns.
Yes  
ajr2456 : 1/25/2022 6:29 pm : link
Bonds, Clemens, Arod, Manny and Sheffield are all better players than Ortiz and deserve to be in the HOF.

If Selig is in out all the steroid users in.
Of course he does  
Dave in PA : 1/25/2022 6:32 pm : link
The guy was incredible. Everyone knows he did steroids. He’s served his time. Let him in
Watching the Boston media contort themselves into knots  
Mike from SI : 1/25/2022 6:33 pm : link
trying to defend this will at least be amusing, I guess? I'm done with the HOF, don't care about it any more. Complete joke.
Only Ortiz?  
Jints in Carolina : 1/25/2022 6:33 pm : link
Unbelievable. What a joke.
RE: Nonsense  
Mad Mike : 1/25/2022 6:34 pm : link
In comment 15574792 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Named on the mitchell report but it’s ignore because the writers liked him. Amazing

He is not named in the Mitchell Report.
RE: Ortiz  
Mad Mike : 1/25/2022 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15574816 Mook80 said:
Quote:
failed a steroid test.

Something Barry Bonds never did.

Bonds tested positive in the same 2003 testing Ortiz did. (I mean, it's never been made public, but they're both on the leaked list of 103 positives).
Yes, and this is all a crock.  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/25/2022 6:44 pm : link
Even before steroids, Bonds was 5 times the player Ortiz was. Clemens and Manny were both better players than Ortiz and they are from the same franchise.
No, cheaters don't deserve it  
islander1 : 1/25/2022 6:48 pm : link
He didn't even need to cheat. He could've gotten in just based on his early career.

However, you cheat, no. Get lost.

Clemens, Sosa, ARod too. All of them.
I don't know what...  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 6:52 pm : link
Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.
Ortiz probably benefited the most from juicing  
bubba0825 : 1/25/2022 6:52 pm : link
All the other guys are HOF’ers even with out it. Meanwhile big papi turned into a different player. IMO this isn’t being discussed enough
Tough call  
OC2.0 : 1/25/2022 6:56 pm : link
On 1 hand you had execs turning a blind eye. "Because chicks dig the longball". $$$ Now McGwire/Sosa was moneyball.
Also the purists will say you had Bond"s Pitt. doubles turned into SF HR's. Imo, they should go because juicing was part of that era, like it or not.
As an aside, never did understand McGwire's juicing. He hit 49 jacks as a long lean rookie.
RE: I don't know what...  
Amtoft : 1/25/2022 6:57 pm : link
In comment 15574861 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.


Jeff Kent is a dick... I mean even Barry Bonds is like damn bro you a dick. This is why the baseball HoF is a joke. You give the power to the people who interact with these players that develop biases both for and against. People like Ortiz is the only reason he is in.
It truly is bizarre. The selective nature of the HOF voters is comical  
CooperDash : 1/25/2022 7:02 pm : link
I mean, they punished Mike Piazza because of bacne and because somehow being a 62nd round draft pick was a black mark on his achievements? What it boils down to is that the BWA are just not intelligent people and they revel in this little piece of power they have. The baseball HOF voting process makes zero sense when voters use it to make a name for themself or to punish deserved players for personal grudges. Ethics and integrity went out the window long ago.

It will never change. MLB will never force a change either. At this point, they get way more publicity with those guys being snubbed each year than if they were eventually let in.
The baseball writers don’t really even matter anymore  
bubba0825 : 1/25/2022 7:07 pm : link
50 years ago you depended on them to cover players 2000 miles away that you’ll hardly ever see on tv. You read about them in the paper, now I can watch Mike trout on my phone live while on a red eye to LA. The writers don’t matter nearly as much as they need us to think they are
Yes.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/25/2022 7:08 pm : link
.
An embarrassing yet expected HOF vote  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 1/25/2022 7:09 pm : link
.
RE: Yes  
Joey from GlenCove : 1/25/2022 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15574793 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
So should arod and Clemens. Asinine to keep them out.

And to keep schilling out when he never cheated the game, never committed a crime, or did anything illegal is a shame as well.


Schilling not in because of his politics and relationship with the media. It’s pretty ridiculous.

A side note. I now think Andruw jones should be in the hall. He’s the best defensive outfielder ever.
......  
Route 9 : 1/25/2022 7:30 pm : link
I don't care anymore lol
RE: RE: I don't know what...  
speedywheels : 1/25/2022 7:33 pm : link
In comment 15574872 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15574861 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.



Jeff Kent is a dick... I mean even Barry Bonds is like damn bro you a dick. This is why the baseball HoF is a joke. You give the power to the people who interact with these players that develop biases both for and against. People like Ortiz is the only reason he is in.


That’s not the reason why he’s in - he’s got the numbers to back it up. But yes, it certainly helps.

As someone above said - the real crime is Kent. He’s an asshole of the biggest order, but he’s one of the best offensive 2nd baseman ever (and he wasn’t awful on defense, either), nary a whisper about PED’s, etc. - his vote total is ridiculous
No  
Spider43 : 1/25/2022 7:39 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: I don't know what...  
moze1021 : 1/25/2022 7:43 pm : link
In comment 15574932 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15574872 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15574861 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.



Jeff Kent is a dick... I mean even Barry Bonds is like damn bro you a dick. This is why the baseball HoF is a joke. You give the power to the people who interact with these players that develop biases both for and against. People like Ortiz is the only reason he is in.



That’s not the reason why he’s in - he’s got the numbers to back it up. But yes, it certainly helps.

As someone above said - the real crime is Kent. He’s an asshole of the biggest order, but he’s one of the best offensive 2nd baseman ever (and he wasn’t awful on defense, either), nary a whisper about PED’s, etc. - his vote total is ridiculous


I wouldn't bet $1 on Jeff Kent having played his entire career without using PEDs..

But then again, I wouldn't take that bet on any player after learning that Andy Pettitte was a user.
RE: No, cheaters don't deserve it  
moze1021 : 1/25/2022 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15574856 islander1 said:
Quote:
He didn't even need to cheat. He could've gotten in just based on his early career.

However, you cheat, no. Get lost.

Clemens, Sosa, ARod too. All of them.


Do you mean: you get caught, you don't deserve it?
RE: RE: No...  
moze1021 : 1/25/2022 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15574762 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574627 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Bonds didn't need the advantage. So why do it? And why give him a pass?

Kenny Griffey, Bonds's main peer, did it the right way and that should count for something.



For all we know, it’s only that Griffey was better at cheating. Should that be the determinative factor for the HOF? HOF voters wanted to keep Piazza out because he had back acne. Do I think Piazza used? Probably, but that is how we get to the point of inducting those smart enough not to get caught.

Although I will add that it probably doesn’t help Bonds’s cause that he was so abjectly blatant about it. His head made him look like a Thanksgiving parade float.


There really is no other logical take than this...

Also, the only reason anyone ever cared about Bonds head size or body transformation is because he was the best and breaking records.

No one gives a crap that Todd Hundley looked like a WWE wrestler.
YES!  
Matt M. : 1/25/2022 7:51 pm : link
There really is nothing more that needs to be said on that.

It is an absolute travesty that he is not in because of alleged PED use. I say alleged because he never failed a test and never admitted anything. I am not stupid. We "know" he used. But, we actually know Ortiz used. He failed a test. And, given the supposed timeline of his usage, he doesn't sniff the HOF without them, unlike Bonds, who was already a HOF player without ever taking a thing.

This is a joke. I never waivered as a fan through work stoppages or any scandals. This is the first time I have considered no longer being a fan. I won't commit to that because I know I love baseball too much. But, I find this love affair with Ortiz disgusting.
RE: RE: I don't know what...  
bw in dc : 1/25/2022 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15574872 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15574861 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.



Jeff Kent is a dick... I mean even Barry Bonds is like damn bro you a dick. This is why the baseball HoF is a joke. You give the power to the people who interact with these players that develop biases both for and against. People like Ortiz is the only reason he is in.


The HoF is full of those types of human beings.
RE: He's arguably the greatest hitter of all time  
Matt M. : 1/25/2022 7:51 pm : link
In comment 15574605 Producer said:
Quote:
Nuff said.
Arguably the greatest PLAYER of all time. You can make that argument for a handful of guys, but he is one of them.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't know what...  
speedywheels : 1/25/2022 7:52 pm : link
In comment 15574945 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15574932 speedywheels said:


Quote:


In comment 15574872 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15574861 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Jeff Kent did to the writers to have such a great career just dismissed with such a low vote. He's one of the greatest offensive second baseman ever.



Jeff Kent is a dick... I mean even Barry Bonds is like damn bro you a dick. This is why the baseball HoF is a joke. You give the power to the people who interact with these players that develop biases both for and against. People like Ortiz is the only reason he is in.



That’s not the reason why he’s in - he’s got the numbers to back it up. But yes, it certainly helps.

As someone above said - the real crime is Kent. He’s an asshole of the biggest order, but he’s one of the best offensive 2nd baseman ever (and he wasn’t awful on defense, either), nary a whisper about PED’s, etc. - his vote total is ridiculous



I wouldn't bet $1 on Jeff Kent having played his entire career without using PEDs..

But then again, I wouldn't take that bet on any player after learning that Andy Pettitte was a user.


I wouldn’t bet either. But again, not one whisper about use for him.

His biggest crime was being a dick. He should be garnering much more attention on the ballot than he is.

But back to the OP - bonds, Clemens and schilling will all get in in December, so this will all be moot.
RE: Absolutely  
Matt M. : 1/25/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15574672 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He was a three time MVP before he ever did roids. If he had retired after the '98 season, before the cream and the clear, he would have waltzed into the Hall.
Exactly. I don't say give him a complete pass. But, withholding him is a joke. His usage, if nothing else, proved what a joke PEDs are. I really don't even blame him. He used, allegedly, out of vanity and jealousy that 2 far inferior players in McGwire and Sosa got so much attention and acclaim for their assault on the HR record while using. He used to prove a point and proved it.

RE: YES!  
speedywheels : 1/25/2022 7:55 pm : link
In comment 15574953 Matt M. said:
Quote:
There really is nothing more that needs to be said on that.

It is an absolute travesty that he is not in because of alleged PED use. I say alleged because he never failed a test and never admitted anything. I am not stupid. We "know" he used. But, we actually know Ortiz used. He failed a test. And, given the supposed timeline of his usage, he doesn't sniff the HOF without them, unlike Bonds, who was already a HOF player without ever taking a thing.

This is a joke. I never waivered as a fan through work stoppages or any scandals. This is the first time I have considered no longer being a fan. I won't commit to that because I know I love baseball too much. But, I find this love affair with Ortiz disgusting.
.

We don’t know what he failed the test for. To your point, we “know” most/all used.

But yes, it’s BS he got in when bonds, Sosa, Clemens, etc didn’t.
Yes  
Chocco : 1/25/2022 7:56 pm : link
.
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