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Can one of our reporters ask Schoen...

robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 7:24 am
why the HC search was so small and limited to mostly guys he already knows?

There are so many potential HCing candidates out there and we interview Daboll, Frazier, Anarumo, Graham, Quinn, and Flores. Does anyone think that Frazier, Anarumo, and Graham have a chance? Graham is like Spags and the Giants are just doing him a courtesy. This is basically decided already with Daboll having his second interview before others have their first. I can't remember that ever happening in the NFL before especially with a coach with no job.

I do hope Flores makes this tough and there are disagreements in-house on who to hire. If it is Daboll, I hope he works out.

I just hate the approach to predetermining the person. Everyone looks back on Mara when he hired Reese and hired Gettleman. I don't see how this process is any different. Small list of guys you already know and never get out of your tight circle. Even if we don't hire these people, it is still a great opportunity to learn more about these people and how they view your team/organization.
This is how it works in the NFL.  
mittenedman : 1/26/2022 7:30 am : link
I'm not sure what to tell you. It's not just the Giants.
Do you want a situation like Miami?  
Mike in NY : 1/26/2022 7:45 am : link
HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?
RE: Do you want a situation like Miami?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 7:46 am : link
In comment 15575270 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?


Harbaugh (might not be interested), or are you referring to first timers only?
RE: This is how it works in the NFL.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 7:47 am : link
In comment 15575264 mittenedman said:
Quote:
I'm not sure what to tell you. It's not just the Giants.


You're nor wrong but we also see statistics at how bad teams are at hiring HCs. We also can't run the way other teams run. When you limit your options you have no idea if your hiring methods are productive. If you don't interview people like Vrabel you'll never know how to adjust and learn from your practices.

Like I said, if Schoen trusts Daboll and wants to lean on him then he gets to make that choice. I just don't understand why anybody would limit who they can interview and learn from.
RE: Do you want a situation like Miami?  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 7:50 am : link
In comment 15575270 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?


I've answered this before. Ryans, McDaniel, O'Connell, Pederson, etc. This is just off the top of my head. I would have also interviewed Leftwich too as I thought he did a great job last year with his offense midseason to help win the SB. His offense was a vertical one to introducing more horizontal concepts.
RE: RE: Do you want a situation like Miami?  
Mike in NY : 1/26/2022 7:53 am : link
In comment 15575271 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575270 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?



Harbaugh (might not be interested), or are you referring to first timers only?


Since Giants don’t need permission to speak with Harbaugh they probably have had conversations with his people about what he would want. Since Hortiz was reportedly close with him I am sure Giants investigated to see if it was worth moving Hortiz to next round. They likely were not getting the assurances they needed and that was why Hortiz wasn’t moved along and the other three were.
And Bruce  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 7:58 am : link
I don't like your response as you focused on who he would hire. I'm focused on who he has interviewed.
He s been with those familiar to him  
joeinpa : 1/26/2022 7:59 am : link
For years, a long time to make a valid evaluation.

What is someone less familiar going to do in an interview to bump ahead of guys whose work you have valued for years?

I think you might be overvaluing what gets done in a interview

That said it s not easy getting the right guy, success is often determined by being in the right place at the right time, that s a success that does not always translate to the next step.

There needs to be some urgency here in getting a coach, Senior Bowl is next week, time to get things in motion.

Picking a head coach whose larger body of work you are familiar with, makes sense
RE: RE: Do you want a situation like Miami?  
Mike in NY : 1/26/2022 7:59 am : link
In comment 15575279 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575270 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?



I've answered this before. Ryans, McDaniel, O'Connell, Pederson, etc. This is just off the top of my head. I would have also interviewed Leftwich too as I thought he did a great job last year with his offense midseason to help win the SB. His offense was a vertical one to introducing more horizontal concepts.


Similar to Harbaugh, Pederson did not require permission and likely would have been a possibility if Poles had gotten the job. Perhaps his people told Giants no thank you. McDaniel and O’Connell are OC’s but neither call plays and I think that is a red flag for teams. Leftwich intrigued me, but his offense in Arizona under Wilks was bad and maybe they had concerns that it was Tom Brady making Leftwich look better. That being said it is something that could have been probed in an interview.
You don't just get to interview anyone you want.  
Heisenberg : 1/26/2022 8:00 am : link
Some guys have restrictions because their teams are still in the race. Other guys (Leftwich) may have known they wanted to go somewhere else and weren't really interested in the job. And I don't think the Giants were interested in Harbaugh, Pederson or McDaniel at all.

And having GM and HC on the same page is incredibly important. We haven't had that here in a LOOOOONG time. The fact that Daboll and Schoen have a good working relationship is important. The fact that the Giants are really looking into Flores to see if they can expect the same with him is also important.
Didn't we all want a GM  
jvm52106 : 1/26/2022 8:02 am : link
And HC tied at the hip?? Man no matter what they do we will find fault.
RE: Didn't we all want a GM  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 8:03 am : link
In comment 15575295 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
And HC tied at the hip?? Man no matter what they do we will find fault.


Again, that is focusing on the hiring and not the interview process.
The implication that this is unique to the Giants  
Ben in Tampa : 1/26/2022 8:05 am : link
And not how 99% of all coaching searches are done is wrong
I agree with Robbie. There are a lot of good candidates out there and  
Ira : 1/26/2022 8:06 am : link
one of them might turn out to be better than the anyone in the small group of people the Giants are talking to.
Best way to get attention of beats is to Tweet @ them  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 1/26/2022 8:07 am : link
.
RE: He s been with those familiar to him  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 8:08 am : link
In comment 15575287 joeinpa said:
Quote:
For years, a long time to make a valid evaluation.

What is someone less familiar going to do in an interview to bump ahead of guys whose work you have valued for years?

I think you might be overvaluing what gets done in a interview

That said it s not easy getting the right guy, success is often determined by being in the right place at the right time, that s a success that does not always translate to the next step.

There needs to be some urgency here in getting a coach, Senior Bowl is next week, time to get things in motion.

Picking a head coach whose larger body of work you are familiar with, makes sense


I'll give you the senior bowl but getting your HC right trumps all of that. Also, with the urgency, the Niners coordinators could have been interviewed Sunday and would have slowed nothing down.
Doesn’t the fact the Schoen is an outside guy mattter  
BillT : 1/26/2022 8:09 am : link
People often hire people that they know or that are recommended by people that they know. But Schoen wasn’t that person for Mara. And Mara’s search was full of outside guys. So, Schoen has a group of people he know but that probably comes with most every GM candidate. Dabol was mentioned a top head coaching candidate before we hired Schoen. It’s not like his name came out of nowhere.
RE: RE: Do you want a situation like Miami?  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 8:10 am : link
In comment 15575279 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575270 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


HC and GM need to be on the same page. Outside of maybe Demeco Ryans, who have we not interviewed that we should have?



I've answered this before. Ryans, McDaniel, O'Connell, Pederson, etc. This is just off the top of my head. I would have also interviewed Leftwich too as I thought he did a great job last year with his offense midseason to help win the SB. His offense was a vertical one to introducing more horizontal concepts.


This are reasonable names to also consider. But maybe some of them were and the early feedback that came in wasn't all positive so they didn't get interviews?

I would have checked out Pederson though.
How many interviews  
TrueBlue56 : 1/26/2022 8:13 am : link
Do you want and how long do you want them to take to decide. We interviewed 9 general managers and narrowed down to 3 before deciding. Now we are on head coaches and will take another week to go through all of the interviews they already have scheduled. Plus we need to build a staff as well.

These are the coaches that schoen has targeted as guys he knows and has relationships with to varying degrees.
RE: The implication that this is unique to the Giants  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 8:18 am : link
In comment 15575297 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
And not how 99% of all coaching searches are done is wrong


Are we not allowed to think, have options, and question? Or do we just have to trust blindly?
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Doesn’t the fact the Schoen is an outside guy mattter  
robbieballs2003 : 1/26/2022 8:20 am : link
In comment 15575301 BillT said:
Quote:
People often hire people that they know or that are recommended by people that they know. But Schoen wasn’t that person for Mara. And Mara’s search was full of outside guys. So, Schoen has a group of people he know but that probably comes with most every GM candidate. Dabol was mentioned a top head coaching candidate before we hired Schoen. It’s not like his name came out of nowhere.


We applauded Mara for going outside his circle. My point is that Schoen is doing what the Mara's have done in the past that led us here. Again, I hope Daboll works out. I do. I just don't see the downside in going outside your circle to learn.
I'm not sure  
Biteymax22 : 1/26/2022 8:21 am : link
Who exactly you were thinking of to bring in, Leftwich is the only other name that I really think should have gotten a long look. Understanding Schoen is from Buffalo, but Daboll is one of the top head coaching candidates this year, as is Flores and Quinn.

We're interviewing the top 3 available + a few more. The Anarumo interview was the only one that had me scratching my head, but I said that about Judge 2 years ago...

Could be many things...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/26/2022 8:26 am : link
...one being that Schoen knows what/who he wants and is ready to get to work.
Maybe he has been hopeful that this combo could be possibility for a couple of years and here it is, waiting for his approval.

Maybe the BBI paranoia has some level of accuracy and he doesn't want the owner(s) to fall in love with a great interview from a guy that Schoen doesn't like.

That said, I agree that just the interviewing process could help him become a better interviewer...a better GM.
RE: RE: The implication that this is unique to the Giants  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 8:27 am : link
In comment 15575310 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575297 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


And not how 99% of all coaching searches are done is wrong



Are we not allowed to think, have options, and question? Or do we just have to trust blindly? Link - ( New Window )


Since Schoen was hired, there is now a very sensitive and vocal set of posters who believe all of us should sit quietly and not question or comment on anything the team does. Everything must 'play out' and until everything has fully played out years from now, we should not speak of it.

Unfortunately you have put yourself on the list of conspiracy theorists who hate the team and everything they stand for.

I specifically want to know why Harbaugh wasn't called  
Matt M. : 1/26/2022 8:29 am : link
Bedt kotuon out there, in my opinion. I'd prefer he actually turn down the interview or job than just assume he doesn't want it or isn't a good fit ir whatever.
I just want  
Les in TO : 1/26/2022 8:30 am : link
Schoen to have autonomy to choose his candidate as opposed to feeling pressured to choose Mara’s preferred candidate.
RE: RE: RE: The implication that this is unique to the Giants  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 8:31 am : link
In comment 15575317 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15575310 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15575297 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


And not how 99% of all coaching searches are done is wrong



Are we not allowed to think, have options, and question? Or do we just have to trust blindly? Link - ( New Window )



Since Schoen was hired, there is now a very sensitive and vocal set of posters who believe all of us should sit quietly and not question or comment on anything the team does. Everything must 'play out' and until everything has fully played out years from now, we should not speak of it.

Unfortunately you have put yourself on the list of conspiracy theorists who hate the team and everything they stand for.


He was just hired a few days ago. Of course we have to wait a reasonable while to see how he plays out. Criticize based on friggin’ media stuff, the race to pist anything that synapses to be the first with a “story?”

pist=post  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 8:31 am : link
.
RE: I just want  
Matt M. : 1/26/2022 8:32 am : link
In comment 15575323 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Schoen to have autonomy to choose his candidate as opposed to feeling pressured to choose Mara’s preferred candidate.
+1
I would have liked to see a more extensive list  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/26/2022 8:34 am : link
As well. Maybe some of the guys from the Rams or 49ers... but with them still alive in the playoffs (and perhaps not us hiring Peters) those guys didn't get an interview. Also, maybe Petersen and/or Bienemey or Leftwich... what's the harm in hearing what people think about the organization or the path out of our losing? A little opposition research so to speak?

The thing that concerns me now (right or wrong - but just the perception, I suppose) is that there is the guys Schoen wants to interview (Daboll, Frazier) and the guys Mara wants to interview (Flores, Quinn)... it seems fragmented to me. Just from the stories/leaks...
RE: RE: I just want  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 8:35 am : link
In comment 15575327 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15575323 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Schoen to have autonomy to choose his candidate as opposed to feeling pressured to choose Mara’s preferred candidate.

+1


Schoen will choose his choice when he feels like it’s the time to choose his choice. I doubt he gives a shit what Mara and company thinks. He’ll listen to them as his employee, but that’s the absolute extent of it, imv..If he capitulates, then he should have stayed in Buffalo
BB  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 8:38 am : link
So your idea of the topics we should be discussing are what?

There is a coaching search going on and people are closely following the beats. When they say "Flores is getting an interview Friday" we can discuss it, but when the beat says "the owner and coach may not prefer the same candidate" we should not discuss it?

I don't understand this desire to come on a message board and tell people what information they should and should not discuss.

This wait and see how it plays out approach...does it apply to the 2022 season? If so, should we not discuss it yet because it is all just conjecture? Or can we speculate on some topics and not others?

Unfortunately a decade of losing has not fostered a "trust the process and see how it goes" attitude in all fans. I don't understand why so many who do have that view are so terribly sensitive about it.
I love  
Fast Eddie : 1/26/2022 8:43 am : link
That our gm has had years of seeing with his own eyes just how Daboll coaches, interacts with his players, what kind of values the man has rather than having to depend on the second hand knowledge from others.
I'm not in the room but its easy to imagine that confirmation bias  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/26/2022 8:43 am : link
is there with Daboll.

I know what I want, oh and btw Daboll fits the bill. Especially if he knows and trusts him and he knows they can work together. Its a part of this game.
RE: RE: RE: The implication that this is unique to the Giants  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 8:47 am : link
In comment 15575317 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15575310 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15575297 Ben in Tampa said:


Quote:


And not how 99% of all coaching searches are done is wrong



Are we not allowed to think, have options, and question? Or do we just have to trust blindly? Link - ( New Window )



Since Schoen was hired, there is now a very sensitive and vocal set of posters who believe all of us should sit quietly and not question or comment on anything the team does. Everything must 'play out' and until everything has fully played out years from now, we should not speak of it.

Unfortunately you have put yourself on the list of conspiracy theorists who hate the team and everything they stand for.


Ironically, just read a post in another thread lecturing others about throwing out too much silly insulting hyperbole.
Let's be honest  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 8:51 am : link
most people moving into a new role want people they know and trust around them. If you have succeeded to a certain point in your career its because you have identified who can help you succeed and who you can't rely on. Having a coach he knows shares the same vision and he can talk to candidly is a huge asset.

In theory we would love an interview process that simply identifies the best person and puts them in that role, but that is really difficult to do.

If Schoen really wants Daboll then he should get to hire him. He is your GM because you trust he knows what he is doing. You can't hire him and then start overriding his first decisions.
RE: BB  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 8:51 am : link
In comment 15575338 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
So your idea of the topics we should be discussing are what?

There is a coaching search going on and people are closely following the beats. When they say "Flores is getting an interview Friday" we can discuss it, but when the beat says "the owner and coach may not prefer the same candidate" we should not discuss it?

I don't understand this desire to come on a message board and tell people what information they should and should not discuss.

This wait and see how it plays out approach...does it apply to the 2022 season? If so, should we not discuss it yet because it is all just conjecture? Or can we speculate on some topics and not others?

Unfortunately a decade of losing has not fostered a "trust the process and see how it goes" attitude in all fans. I don't understand why so many who do have that view are so terribly sensitive about it.


Mike, please stop with these lectures, ok? I never said what should or shouldn’t be discussed in this case. I’m saying that not everything is a behind the scenes conspiracy, that since “it’s the Maras” and company, that means that it has to automatically be pressure on Schoen.

Mara said publicly Schoen will conduct the HC search and he’s not going to renege on that and put himself in a corner..He’s allowed as an owner to opine. Schoen is NOT obligated to act on that. I doubt he ever would, imv..

Please, not every post by me and others is directed at
people not posting ad infinitum stuff..

The only question I really want to ask Joe Schoen is:  
Gruber : 1/26/2022 8:52 am : link
Is the HC appointment going to be your choice and not a commpromise?
RE: RE: RE: I just want  
Les in TO : 1/26/2022 8:54 am : link
In comment 15575332 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575327 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15575323 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Schoen to have autonomy to choose his candidate as opposed to feeling pressured to choose Mara’s preferred candidate.

+1



Schoen will choose his choice when he feels like it’s the time to choose his choice. I doubt he gives a shit what Mara and company thinks. He’ll listen to them as his employee, but that’s the absolute extent of it, imv..If he capitulates, then he should have stayed in Buffalo
You don’t think he cares about what his boss, thinks? That’s not how the world works. I’d expect him to diplomatically press his case for his top choice in the spirit of “collaboration”, but you don’t just ignore your boss especially in your first week and when you are new to the role. Hopefully Mara aligns to Schoen’s pick to be true to his word about only vetoing a decision because of character/PR issues.
Before it was all about the GM needs to have freedom to pick his coach  
UberAlias : 1/26/2022 8:55 am : link
Now we're complaining about how he's going about doing it.

The issue I have here is that many have the attitude, and understandably so, that they will believe that things have changed only when they see results. So if that's the case and results are all that matters -then there really isn't much to say until we have a sampling of actual results to judge now isn't there?
RE: RE: BB  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 8:58 am : link
In comment 15575356 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575338 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


So your idea of the topics we should be discussing are what?

There is a coaching search going on and people are closely following the beats. When they say "Flores is getting an interview Friday" we can discuss it, but when the beat says "the owner and coach may not prefer the same candidate" we should not discuss it?

I don't understand this desire to come on a message board and tell people what information they should and should not discuss.

This wait and see how it plays out approach...does it apply to the 2022 season? If so, should we not discuss it yet because it is all just conjecture? Or can we speculate on some topics and not others?

Unfortunately a decade of losing has not fostered a "trust the process and see how it goes" attitude in all fans. I don't understand why so many who do have that view are so terribly sensitive about it.



Mike, please stop with these lectures, ok? I never said what should or shouldn’t be discussed in this case. I’m saying that not everything is a behind the scenes conspiracy, that since “it’s the Maras” and company, that means that it has to automatically be pressure on Schoen.

Mara said publicly Schoen will conduct the HC search and he’s not going to renege on that and put himself in a corner..He’s allowed as an owner to opine. Schoen is NOT obligated to act on that. I doubt he ever would, imv..

Please, not every post by me and others is directed at
people not posting ad infinitum stuff..


I'll stop with the lectures when you stop being the thought police. Mara himself acknowledged he lost the trust of the fans.

For the life of me I will never understand the need to tell people to stop discussing a topic you can easily avoid.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I just want  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 8:59 am : link
In comment 15575359 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 15575332 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15575327 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 15575323 Les in TO said:


Quote:


Schoen to have autonomy to choose his candidate as opposed to feeling pressured to choose Mara’s preferred candidate.

+1



Schoen will choose his choice when he feels like it’s the time to choose his choice. I doubt he gives a shit what Mara and company thinks. He’ll listen to them as his employee, but that’s the absolute extent of it, imv..If he capitulates, then he should have stayed in Buffalo

You don’t think he cares about what his boss, thinks? That’s not how the world works. I’d expect him to diplomatically press his case for his top choice in the spirit of “collaboration”, but you don’t just ignore your boss especially in your first week and when you are new to the role. Hopefully Mara aligns to Schoen’s pick to be true to his word about only vetoing a decision because of character/PR issues.


He cares to the extent that he’s an employee, so he will respectfully listen. But he also knows why he was brought here and that the heirarchy knows very little about coaching and player personnel..

He will act independently, Imv. I’m certain of it or else, as I’ve said, he doesn’t belong here as our GM
Owner : GM is not the same as GM : Coach  
Jerry in_DC : 1/26/2022 9:00 am : link
The GM and coach actually need to work together. They need to collaborate on vision, strategy, and execution. They need to be able to get along.

Mara desperately needed to get out of his circle for GM because 1) his circle sucked and 2) the GM and owner don't have to substantially collaborate on things.

I would add, if you've actually interviewed anybody, you don't get that much out of an interview. Actually working with someone is a million times more informative. That's why anybody massively weights a true account previous work experience if we can get it during a hiring process.

I'll say again- I don't know if Daboll is good. Nobody does. Schoen would have a lot more insight here, but even he doesn't know how he'd be as a HC. I don't know if Flores is a tremendous asshole or if the GM screwed him.

What we can say as fans is that the Giants talked to a set of reasonable candidates for GM and are doing the same for HC. I'm totally good with that.
Mike in Ohio  
JonC : 1/26/2022 9:02 am : link
on target, straight through the heart.

I suspect using descriptors such as "predetermined" are an example of what some posters object to, along with being generally resistant to a whiff of skepticism. I'd use telegraphed as it's difficult to really know the former, but the heart of it is just gtfo out of the way and let Schoen hire his HC.
RE: Owner : GM is not the same as GM : Coach  
UberAlias : 1/26/2022 9:07 am : link
In comment 15575370 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The GM and coach actually need to work together. They need to collaborate on vision, strategy, and execution. They need to be able to get along.

Mara desperately needed to get out of his circle for GM because 1) his circle sucked and 2) the GM and owner don't have to substantially collaborate on things.

I would add, if you've actually interviewed anybody, you don't get that much out of an interview. Actually working with someone is a million times more informative. That's why anybody massively weights a true account previous work experience if we can get it during a hiring process.

I'll say again- I don't know if Daboll is good. Nobody does. Schoen would have a lot more insight here, but even he doesn't know how he'd be as a HC. I don't know if Flores is a tremendous asshole or if the GM screwed him.

What we can say as fans is that the Giants talked to a set of reasonable candidates for GM and are doing the same for HC. I'm totally good with that.
This is spot on.
DeMeco Ryans has a very bright future,  
Section331 : 1/26/2022 9:08 am : link
but he's been a DC for one year. I don't think he's ready for a HC job just yet.
Don't forget about how incomplete an interview can be.  
Since1965 : 1/26/2022 9:08 am : link
Look at what happened last time. They were blown away by Judge. We found out that he's a good bullshitter, not a good coach. An interview is only part of the story. If you have worked with someone, you're knowing what you get.
RE: Let's be honest  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 9:09 am : link
In comment 15575355 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
most people moving into a new role want people they know and trust around them. If you have succeeded to a certain point in your career its because you have identified who can help you succeed and who you can't rely on. Having a coach he knows shares the same vision and he can talk to candidly is a huge asset.

In theory we would love an interview process that simply identifies the best person and puts them in that role, but that is really difficult to do.

If Schoen really wants Daboll then he should get to hire him. He is your GM because you trust he knows what he is doing. You can't hire him and then start overriding his first decisions.


Aligned with some of this but not all. Particularly regarding the comment that Schoen has developed all this perfect trust so far after being the NY Giant GM for just a few days. He has been given a big responsibility on this HC search but he's not some infallible GM all of sudden, and can still listen to feedback from others on the topic.

The Owners should be able to discuss the head coaching options with Schoen. And, in turn, Schoen should be able to provide his rational for his top choice and hopefully be compelling in doing so. If he can't or Schoen himself moves in another direction based on what he has learned this week during other interviews, it shouldn't be couched as an override at all.
RE: RE: RE: BB  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 9:10 am : link
In comment 15575367 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15575356 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 15575338 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


So your idea of the topics we should be discussing are what?

There is a coaching search going on and people are closely following the beats. When they say "Flores is getting an interview Friday" we can discuss it, but when the beat says "the owner and coach may not prefer the same candidate" we should not discuss it?

I don't understand this desire to come on a message board and tell people what information they should and should not discuss.

This wait and see how it plays out approach...does it apply to the 2022 season? If so, should we not discuss it yet because it is all just conjecture? Or can we speculate on some topics and not others?

Unfortunately a decade of losing has not fostered a "trust the process and see how it goes" attitude in all fans. I don't understand why so many who do have that view are so terribly sensitive about it.



Mike, please stop with these lectures, ok? I never said what should or shouldn’t be discussed in this case. I’m saying that not everything is a behind the scenes conspiracy, that since “it’s the Maras” and company, that means that it has to automatically be pressure on Schoen.

Mara said publicly Schoen will conduct the HC search and he’s not going to renege on that and put himself in a corner..He’s allowed as an owner to opine. Schoen is NOT obligated to act on that. I doubt he ever would, imv..

Please, not every post by me and others is directed at
people not posting ad infinitum stuff..




I'll stop with the lectures when you stop being the thought police. Mara himself acknowledged he lost the trust of the fans.

For the life of me I will never understand the need to tell people to stop discussing a topic you can easily avoid.


And for the life of me, I cannot understand why you have to lecture the board about the opposite. I have stopped criticizing the posters who continually post the same stuff. I believe you should do the same about lecturing others about whether or not we/they are fed up with the same posts..

I no longer speak to certain posters I’m fed up with (and they’ll do the same with me) or enter their threads..I’m trying hard to rise above my disatisfaction with wash/rinse/repeat..It seems that every post I make, you feel the need to turn it into me “deciding” what people should and should not post..

I simply disagree with their POV and say so..I have stopped telling them to stop posting their thoughts since I returned(it’s possible I’ve slipped on that front, but very little), but obviously you haven’t noticed.
RE: Owner : GM is not the same as GM : Coach  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 9:12 am : link
In comment 15575370 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The GM and coach actually need to work together. They need to collaborate on vision, strategy, and execution. They need to be able to get along.

Mara desperately needed to get out of his circle for GM because 1) his circle sucked and 2) the GM and owner don't have to substantially collaborate on things.

I would add, if you've actually interviewed anybody, you don't get that much out of an interview. Actually working with someone is a million times more informative. That's why anybody massively weights a true account previous work experience if we can get it during a hiring process.

I'll say again- I don't know if Daboll is good. Nobody does. Schoen would have a lot more insight here, but even he doesn't know how he'd be as a HC. I don't know if Flores is a tremendous asshole or if the GM screwed him.

What we can say as fans is that the Giants talked to a set of reasonable candidates for GM and are doing the same for HC. I'm totally good with that.


This is a good post.
I think the nuance possibly being missed  
JonC : 1/26/2022 9:14 am : link
is what articles like RV's yesterday are intimating : that Mara (for lack of a better term) is perhaps arranging and speaking to HC candidates in parallel with Schoen. It's been alluded to a few times over the past 7-10 days and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Perhaps they've agreed to split the work amongst them, perhaps Mara is running in parallel because he's the boss. We may not know for sure, but past history suggests it could be more of the same old surfacing early in the Schoen era.

I hope not. But, it doesn't compute to me to ignore it.
RE: Owner : GM is not the same as GM : Coach  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 9:14 am : link
In comment 15575370 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
The GM and coach actually need to work together. They need to collaborate on vision, strategy, and execution. They need to be able to get along.

Mara desperately needed to get out of his circle for GM because 1) his circle sucked and 2) the GM and owner don't have to substantially collaborate on things.

I would add, if you've actually interviewed anybody, you don't get that much out of an interview. Actually working with someone is a million times more informative. That's why anybody massively weights a true account previous work experience if we can get it during a hiring process.

I'll say again- I don't know if Daboll is good. Nobody does. Schoen would have a lot more insight here, but even he doesn't know how he'd be as a HC. I don't know if Flores is a tremendous asshole or if the GM screwed him.

What we can say as fans is that the Giants talked to a set of reasonable candidates for GM and are doing the same for HC. I'm totally good with that.


Well said
I like you, Bruce  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 9:14 am : link
but we don't just have a different POV. I have good discussions with people with whom I have a different point of view.

I do need to get better about ignoring instead of responding to the people who are running around this site calling people conspiracy theorists and haters and telling them to shut up with their thoughts.
RE: I like you, Bruce  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 9:15 am : link
In comment 15575403 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
but we don't just have a different POV. I have good discussions with people with whom I have a different point of view.

I do need to get better about ignoring instead of responding to the people who are running around this site calling people conspiracy theorists and haters and telling them to shut up with their thoughts.


Well they should! 😂

Peace, bro..
I do find it interesting that the net isn’t wider.  
CV36 : 1/26/2022 9:22 am : link
I also find it interesting that they are interviewing all defensive guys with the exception of Daboll. If Daboll is hired without interviewing other Offensive guys that narrows it to one candidate in my opinion.
RE: I would have liked to see a more extensive list  
Mayo2JZ : 1/26/2022 9:23 am : link
In comment 15575330 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
As well. Maybe some of the guys from the Rams or 49ers... but with them still alive in the playoffs (and perhaps not us hiring Peters) those guys didn't get an interview. Also, maybe Petersen and/or Bienemey or Leftwich... what's the harm in hearing what people think about the organization or the path out of our losing? A little opposition research so to speak?

The thing that concerns me now (right or wrong - but just the perception, I suppose) is that there is the guys Schoen wants to interview (Daboll, Frazier) and the guys Mara wants to interview (Flores, Quinn)... it seems fragmented to me. Just from the stories/leaks...


+1
Rage  
JonC : 1/26/2022 9:38 am : link
That's what has caught the attention for sure.
some of you don't seem to understand  
Dave on the UWS : 1/26/2022 9:38 am : link
that the "best candidate by appearances" to us is frequently NOT the best choice for a particular GM. Schoen has a vision on what course he wants to chart for the organization. He has to KNOW that the guy he hires as HC is in lock step with him for best chance of success. That will usually be someone he is VERY familiar with. So by definition, the HC search HAS to be different than the GM search.
We either trust Schoen or we don't. He has to be a strong enough person to stand up to ownership and say "this is how we are moving forward". Hope he has it in him.
RE: I think the nuance possibly being missed  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 9:43 am : link
In comment 15575398 JonC said:
Quote:
is what articles like RV's yesterday are intimating : that Mara (for lack of a better term) is perhaps arranging and speaking to HC candidates in parallel with Schoen. It's been alluded to a few times over the past 7-10 days and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Perhaps they've agreed to split the work amongst them, perhaps Mara is running in parallel because he's the boss. We may not know for sure, but past history suggests it could be more of the same old surfacing early in the Schoen era.

I hope not. But, it doesn't compute to me to ignore it.


+1. It is a bad look for immediately after supposedly conceding that the GM will have carte blanche.
Yep  
JonC : 1/26/2022 9:45 am : link
Words are just words, actions speak louder.
RE: I think the nuance possibly being missed  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 9:48 am : link
In comment 15575398 JonC said:
Quote:
is what articles like RV's yesterday are intimating : that Mara (for lack of a better term) is perhaps arranging and speaking to HC candidates in parallel with Schoen. It's been alluded to a few times over the past 7-10 days and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Perhaps they've agreed to split the work amongst them, perhaps Mara is running in parallel because he's the boss. We may not know for sure, but past history suggests it could be more of the same old surfacing early in the Schoen era.

I hope not. But, it doesn't compute to me to ignore it.


It was intimated that two parallel sets of interviews are possibly going on, one with Schoen leading them and another with Mara?

I thought I saw confirmatory reports, put out directly by the Giants, every time they had an interview listing who the guys in the room were. And they are always the same group.
Part of a GM's job is to manage the owner  
Jerry in_DC : 1/26/2022 9:51 am : link
There are very, very few owners across all sports who literally do nothing except sign checks (probably zero).

I am very, very skeptical of the Maras and of the current front office setup. I think having Chris in his position is a disaster. But John is not going to do literally nothing. He's just not. And it's not reasonable to expect him to do nothing.

Scheon has to be able to run his show while also dealing with ownership. That's just part of the job. If Mara says, "hey check this guy out," Schoen needs to be able to manage that. He needs to say, "No, that guy sucks" or "OK I'll check him out" and then make and justify the decision he wants to make.
I agree with Jerry  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2022 9:54 am : link
Schoen will have to master keeping the Mara's involved and feeling like they are part of the process and still going in the direction he wants. Hopefully he knows where to bend and where not to break.
Actually I think we are doing ok with the search  
PatersonPlank : 1/26/2022 9:54 am : link
I can't really come up with anyone else I would be interested in besides these 5 or so candidates. Bienemy seems to have baggage, plus Read is the guy there anyway. Leftwich is too junior for me, I prefer more experience. I really don't want to go for some hot assistant who has had 1 good season being an OC or DC
He could expand his list to include guys he knows nothing about and  
Ivan15 : 1/26/2022 10:02 am : link
Be wowed by another Joe Judge. Is that better?
What I am suggesting is not that Mara should sit in a corner  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 10:04 am : link
and not talk to anyone. What I am saying is that a non-football person who has admitted to being wrong time and again on making this call take a back seat to the football person he hired to do the job.

If you take a position in a company and are told you have carte blanche to run it the way you want, do you want the owner stopping by and saying "hey, I really like John Doe for the head up sales. I reached out to him and he is coming in on Tuesday for an interview with us."

Nobody is suggesting John Doe sucks at his job. He may be the guy you want to hire. What it suggests is that you may not have the carte blanche you believe you do.
They way they've read to me  
JonC : 1/26/2022 10:06 am : link
is there could be dual sets of convos taking place. Remember, the Flores convo was reported before Schoen was hired, as one example. Again, it could be nothing but the past ten years of actions from Mara et al tend to inform differently. ymmv.
If there are really parallel interviews and conversations  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 10:10 am : link
going on, then Schoen clearly isn't leading this process.

For what it's worth though, I just read the RV article and don't see that being intimated whatsoever. What are you pointing towards?
RE: RE: Doesn’t the fact the Schoen is an outside guy mattter  
Bill in UT : 1/26/2022 10:11 am : link
In comment 15575311 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15575301 BillT said:


Quote:






We applauded Mara for going outside his circle. My point is that Schoen is doing what the Mara's have done in the past that led us here. Again, I hope Daboll works out. I do. I just don't see the downside in going outside your circle to learn.


Here's the difference as I see it. Schoen's job security depends on him making a good choice so he's going to hire the best guy available, as he sees it. If Mara hires family or a crony and the guy sucks, there are no consequences for Mara. He can't be fired, so he can just hire anyone he pleases, over and over.
Mara's press conference was revealing  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2022 10:15 am : link
He said he values Chris's opinion and that was why he wanted him in interviews for the GM. He said Tim worked his way up from the bottom and worked his way up and that he is one of the most trusted in the building. This was put out on other threads.

So what is the best course for JS to take? I think it is finding find some value in those two. Understand where they can help but limiting impact. Build trust and a workable relationship.

If you want to clean up the front office (getting rid of underperformers) JS will have a better chance if those two are aligned with him imv.
RE: Mara's press conference was revealing  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 10:22 am : link
In comment 15575507 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
He said he values Chris's opinion and that was why he wanted him in interviews for the GM. He said Tim worked his way up from the bottom and worked his way up and that he is one of the most trusted in the building. This was put out on other threads.

So what is the best course for JS to take? I think it is finding find some value in those two. Understand where they can help but limiting impact. Build trust and a workable relationship.

If you want to clean up the front office (getting rid of underperformers) JS will have a better chance if those two are aligned with him imv.


Agree with this completely, which is why I don't buy the "I'll listen to the owners, but at the end of the day I will do whatever I want because I am in charge."

You don't come into an organization and immediately alienate the owner and the people he trusts and last long. He needs them to be behind him down the road which means he needs to make sure their feedback is part of the decision making process. If it isn't, he is jettisoned at the first sign of trouble because he alone owns the decisions.
RE: I agree with Robbie. There are a lot of good candidates out there and  
Festina Lente : 1/26/2022 10:24 am : link
In comment 15575298 Ira said:
Quote:
one of them might turn out to be better than the anyone in the small group of people the Giants are talking to.


Yes and it doesn't hurt to see other candidates outside your comfort zone.
RE: RE: Mara's press conference was revealing  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 10:25 am : link
In comment 15575520 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15575507 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


He said he values Chris's opinion and that was why he wanted him in interviews for the GM. He said Tim worked his way up from the bottom and worked his way up and that he is one of the most trusted in the building. This was put out on other threads.

So what is the best course for JS to take? I think it is finding find some value in those two. Understand where they can help but limiting impact. Build trust and a workable relationship.

If you want to clean up the front office (getting rid of underperformers) JS will have a better chance if those two are aligned with him imv.



Agree with this completely, which is why I don't buy the "I'll listen to the owners, but at the end of the day I will do whatever I want because I am in charge."

You don't come into an organization and immediately alienate the owner and the people he trusts and last long. He needs them to be behind him down the road which means he needs to make sure their feedback is part of the decision making process. If it isn't, he is jettisoned at the first sign of trouble because he alone owns the decisions.


Yes, that would be ideal of course
RE: I would have liked to see a more extensive list  
Festina Lente : 1/26/2022 10:26 am : link
In comment 15575330 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
As well. Maybe some of the guys from the Rams or 49ers... but with them still alive in the playoffs (and perhaps not us hiring Peters) those guys didn't get an interview. Also, maybe Petersen and/or Bienemey or Leftwich... what's the harm in hearing what people think about the organization or the path out of our losing? A little opposition research so to speak?

The thing that concerns me now (right or wrong - but just the perception, I suppose) is that there is the guys Schoen wants to interview (Daboll, Frazier) and the guys Mara wants to interview (Flores, Quinn)... it seems fragmented to me. Just from the stories/leaks...


I think you and OP have echoed my concerns
RE: If there are really parallel interviews and conversations  
JonC : 1/26/2022 10:30 am : link
In comment 15575498 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
going on, then Schoen clearly isn't leading this process.

For what it's worth though, I just read the RV article and don't see that being intimated whatsoever. What are you pointing towards?


There's been a handful of articles over the past 7-10 days, by RV, Leonard, perhaps others. My instincts after reading were barking at me, ymmv.
RE: I think the nuance possibly being missed  
UberAlias : 1/26/2022 10:30 am : link
In comment 15575398 JonC said:
Quote:
is what articles like RV's yesterday are intimating : that Mara (for lack of a better term) is perhaps arranging and speaking to HC candidates in parallel with Schoen. It's been alluded to a few times over the past 7-10 days and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Perhaps they've agreed to split the work amongst them, perhaps Mara is running in parallel because he's the boss. We may not know for sure, but past history suggests it could be more of the same old surfacing early in the Schoen era.

I hope not. But, it doesn't compute to me to ignore it.
I read the RV article differently. It stated that Daboll, who has a relationship with the man who will be making the decision, is the clear favorite but at the point not a lock. Mara was suspected to like Flores. I think if we have our minds set on Schoen locking himself in a dark room by himself and making a decision, that is not how this is going to happen, nor do I think it should. Schoen have been reported to have been given the decision making power here, but he is also a brand new GM. Having discussions/dialogue and exchange of ideas here is a good thing and not the same as owner meddling. At the very least Mara should have some experiences I would want to draw on if I were Schoen.
RE: What I am suggesting is not that Mara should sit in a corner  
Jerry in_DC : 1/26/2022 10:46 am : link
In comment 15575488 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:

If you take a position in a company and are told you have carte blanche to run it the way you want, do you want the owner stopping by and saying "hey, I really like John Doe for the head up sales. I reached out to him and he is coming in on Tuesday for an interview with us."


Would I like that exact scenario? Probably not, but you never know. Maybe the candidate ends up being good. Maybe I can navigate the situation smoothly with my boss. Granted, in my work experience, the big bosses have earned their positions rather than inheriting them like Mara, so their input is often (but not always) useful to me.

There's a lot about this that we don't know. And I agree, there's a version of this that is bad. But there's also a version that is completely routine business that is going to happen all the time, everywhere. I run things. I still report to my boss. He runs bigger things, he still reports to his boss. Anyone who is an employee is always going to have a boss. And that boss is almost always going to weigh in on some things.

Bottom line for me - I think this offseason has been great. We have a real GM who's not a moron and not in the Giants inner circle. We're probably going to get a real head coach. The processes for hiring both have appeared to be solid. This is way, way better than where we were and where I expected us to be.

I'm not going to say "you should feel x or y". But for me, I've seen a lot of progress here in the past few weeks. I've been hyper-negative about the Giants for the past 4 years (correctly). I see some things to at least make me feel neutral or cautiously optimistic. So I'm not going to get hung up on things that are part of a typical boss-employee relationship.
I caught up on a ton of items on the NYG yesterday  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 10:48 am : link
and have seen nothing to intimate parallel interviews are taking place, and without Schoen.

But can see that fans are on edge a bit, and such posting is following suit.
Respectfully  
JonC : 1/26/2022 11:00 am : link
given the past ten years of their demonstrated history, and my own history of accuracy for reading situations, I'll remain skeptical.
RE: RE: What I am suggesting is not that Mara should sit in a corner  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 11:05 am : link
In comment 15575586 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:

Bottom line for me - I think this offseason has been great. We have a real GM who's not a moron and not in the Giants inner circle. We're probably going to get a real head coach. The processes for hiring both have appeared to be solid. This is way, way better than where we were and where I expected us to be.

I'm not going to say "you should feel x or y". But for me, I've seen a lot of progress here in the past few weeks. I've been hyper-negative about the Giants for the past 4 years (correctly). I see some things to at least make me feel neutral or cautiously optimistic. So I'm not going to get hung up on things that are part of a typical boss-employee relationship.


More good comments here Jerry. I feel very much the same way.
Jerry, I agree with much of what you said  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 11:11 am : link
But there is another wrinkle here that you touched on.

In that scenario, now imagine that your boss is the son of the former owner, and the company has been in a free fall for the last decade. You worked with some talented people in your last company and want to bring in your own person.

How do you feel now when the boss mentions he invited someone in for an interview? I'd suggest many would look at it through the lens of "I need to negotiate this very delicately."

I think some of us see this situation this was and are justifiably skeptical.
I don't disagree with Jerry  
JonC : 1/26/2022 11:13 am : link
I'm just watching for a string finish that passes the sniff test too.
strong finish  
JonC : 1/26/2022 11:14 am : link
...
RE: RE: RE: What I am suggesting is not that Mara should sit in a corner  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 11:14 am : link
In comment 15575619 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 15575586 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:



Bottom line for me - I think this offseason has been great. We have a real GM who's not a moron and not in the Giants inner circle. We're probably going to get a real head coach. The processes for hiring both have appeared to be solid. This is way, way better than where we were and where I expected us to be.

I'm not going to say "you should feel x or y". But for me, I've seen a lot of progress here in the past few weeks. I've been hyper-negative about the Giants for the past 4 years (correctly). I see some things to at least make me feel neutral or cautiously optimistic. So I'm not going to get hung up on things that are part of a typical boss-employee relationship.



More good comments here Jerry. I feel very much the same way.


As do I
RE: Jerry, I agree with much of what you said  
Jerry in_DC : 1/26/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15575628 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
But there is another wrinkle here that you touched on.

In that scenario, now imagine that your boss is the son of the former owner, and the company has been in a free fall for the last decade. You worked with some talented people in your last company and want to bring in your own person.

How do you feel now when the boss mentions he invited someone in for an interview? I'd suggest many would look at it through the lens of "I need to negotiate this very delicately."

I think some of us see this situation this was and are justifiably skeptical.


That is a very specific hypothetical that is going to take me way off topic. What would I do? I would only take that job if they offered > 2x my market value. I'd save the excess money and after q year I might quit or get fired. Then I would take a 6 month sabbatical and play golf every day.
RE: RE: Jerry, I agree with much of what you said  
Mike from Ohio : 1/26/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15575649 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15575628 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


But there is another wrinkle here that you touched on.

In that scenario, now imagine that your boss is the son of the former owner, and the company has been in a free fall for the last decade. You worked with some talented people in your last company and want to bring in your own person.

How do you feel now when the boss mentions he invited someone in for an interview? I'd suggest many would look at it through the lens of "I need to negotiate this very delicately."

I think some of us see this situation this was and are justifiably skeptical.



That is a very specific hypothetical that is going to take me way off topic. What would I do? I would only take that job if they offered > 2x my market value. I'd save the excess money and after q year I might quit or get fired. Then I would take a 6 month sabbatical and play golf every day.


Those are great answers! Let's hope Joe Schoen's are a little different though.
I don’t think that  
Joe Beckwith : 1/26/2022 11:37 am : link
9 is a small sample, and adding 3-6 more just over thinks and even complicate something the process; especially when it looks like the average searches seem to be 5 or even less.
And I would guess some of the candidates might be indirectly interviewing for Coordinator or position coach at the same time.
Do we still want to run the ball, stop the run,….. and what that means for SB, LW, DL,
Or do we now go Air Daboll, and what it means for KG, KT, and aWR draftee, and who coaches any of that specifically.
RE: RE: Let's be honest  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 11:48 am : link
In comment 15575386 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 15575355 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


most people moving into a new role want people they know and trust around them. If you have succeeded to a certain point in your career its because you have identified who can help you succeed and who you can't rely on. Having a coach he knows shares the same vision and he can talk to candidly is a huge asset.

In theory we would love an interview process that simply identifies the best person and puts them in that role, but that is really difficult to do.

If Schoen really wants Daboll then he should get to hire him. He is your GM because you trust he knows what he is doing. You can't hire him and then start overriding his first decisions.



Aligned with some of this but not all. Particularly regarding the comment that Schoen has developed all this perfect trust so far after being the NY Giant GM for just a few days. He has been given a big responsibility on this HC search but he's not some infallible GM all of sudden, and can still listen to feedback from others on the topic.

The Owners should be able to discuss the head coaching options with Schoen. And, in turn, Schoen should be able to provide his rational for his top choice and hopefully be compelling in doing so. If he can't or Schoen himself moves in another direction based on what he has learned this week during other interviews, it shouldn't be couched as an override at all.

I think the point is, Schoen earned the job specifically in the context of succeeding where ownership has failed recently. The trust is implied because it is necessary for what the entire point of bringing Schoen in as GM requires.

Does ownership retain the right to overrule him? Absolutely. They own the team. They obviously can overrule him.

Should they? If they do, isn't it still just business as usual at NYGHQ and the new big brain is just another figurehead?
RE: RE: RE: Let's be honest  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 4:41 pm : link
In comment 15575695 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15575386 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


In comment 15575355 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


most people moving into a new role want people they know and trust around them. If you have succeeded to a certain point in your career its because you have identified who can help you succeed and who you can't rely on. Having a coach he knows shares the same vision and he can talk to candidly is a huge asset.

In theory we would love an interview process that simply identifies the best person and puts them in that role, but that is really difficult to do.

If Schoen really wants Daboll then he should get to hire him. He is your GM because you trust he knows what he is doing. You can't hire him and then start overriding his first decisions.



Aligned with some of this but not all. Particularly regarding the comment that Schoen has developed all this perfect trust so far after being the NY Giant GM for just a few days. He has been given a big responsibility on this HC search but he's not some infallible GM all of sudden, and can still listen to feedback from others on the topic.

The Owners should be able to discuss the head coaching options with Schoen. And, in turn, Schoen should be able to provide his rational for his top choice and hopefully be compelling in doing so. If he can't or Schoen himself moves in another direction based on what he has learned this week during other interviews, it shouldn't be couched as an override at all.


I think the point is, Schoen earned the job specifically in the context of succeeding where ownership has failed recently. The trust is implied because it is necessary for what the entire point of bringing Schoen in as GM requires.

Does ownership retain the right to overrule him? Absolutely. They own the team. They obviously can overrule him.

Should they? If they do, isn't it still just business as usual at NYGHQ and the new big brain is just another figurehead?


No, I agree ownership should not be simply overruling Schoen.

Especially if he is able to paint a compelling case for his first choice, and in turn ownership cannot with their choice. But that is why there should be some level of discussion and collaboration in the process. And this is what I believe was mentioned at Schoen's press conference earlier today.

As much as this fan board is wary of John Mara, painting both him (and Tisch) as unreasonable, unwavering authoritarians may sound interesting but is likely far from the truth when it comes to choosing the next Head Coach.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Let's be honest  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15576523 NYGgolfer said:
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In comment 15575695 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 15575386 NYGgolfer said:


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In comment 15575355 Mike from Ohio said:


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most people moving into a new role want people they know and trust around them. If you have succeeded to a certain point in your career its because you have identified who can help you succeed and who you can't rely on. Having a coach he knows shares the same vision and he can talk to candidly is a huge asset.

In theory we would love an interview process that simply identifies the best person and puts them in that role, but that is really difficult to do.

If Schoen really wants Daboll then he should get to hire him. He is your GM because you trust he knows what he is doing. You can't hire him and then start overriding his first decisions.



Aligned with some of this but not all. Particularly regarding the comment that Schoen has developed all this perfect trust so far after being the NY Giant GM for just a few days. He has been given a big responsibility on this HC search but he's not some infallible GM all of sudden, and can still listen to feedback from others on the topic.

The Owners should be able to discuss the head coaching options with Schoen. And, in turn, Schoen should be able to provide his rational for his top choice and hopefully be compelling in doing so. If he can't or Schoen himself moves in another direction based on what he has learned this week during other interviews, it shouldn't be couched as an override at all.


I think the point is, Schoen earned the job specifically in the context of succeeding where ownership has failed recently. The trust is implied because it is necessary for what the entire point of bringing Schoen in as GM requires.

Does ownership retain the right to overrule him? Absolutely. They own the team. They obviously can overrule him.

Should they? If they do, isn't it still just business as usual at NYGHQ and the new big brain is just another figurehead?



No, I agree ownership should not be simply overruling Schoen.

Especially if he is able to paint a compelling case for his first choice, and in turn ownership cannot with their choice. But that is why there should be some level of discussion and collaboration in the process. And this is what I believe was mentioned at Schoen's press conference earlier today.

As much as this fan board is wary of John Mara, painting both him (and Tisch) as unreasonable, unwavering authoritarians may sound interesting but is likely far from the truth when it comes to choosing the next Head Coach.

It's not about painting them as unreasonable, unwavering authoritarians.

It's about recognizing that their football acumen might not stack up to those who have risen the ranks on merit instead of wealth.
I think Mara would agree which is why he is putting Schoen,  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 7:33 pm : link
his highest level football professional, to lead the process of finding the new Head Coach.

And Schoen indicated he expected, after collaborating with the owners, his choice would be approved.
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