for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Joe Schoen Press Conference at 11:45AM

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 7:49 am

The team will supposedly stream the press conference via Giants.com.


Giants.com - ( New Window )

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: It  
Johnny5 : 1/26/2022 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15576201 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576184 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576163 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576160 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576079 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Sorry stats bother you.


This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.



The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?


OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.



Those stats don’t anything to do with scheme, they’re about accuracy. Not whether the throw was caught or not. But whether it was within a like three foot radius of the intended target.

You replied to a comment that wasn’t addressing you with “lol, see” and are telling someone else they don’t have to argue. Weird stuff.

Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.

L O L
Even if they genuinely like Jones  
shadow_spinner0 : 1/26/2022 2:31 pm : link
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
RE: RE: RE: Eric  
Jimmy Googs : 1/26/2022 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15576191 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15576170 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15576157 Go Terps said:


Quote:


There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.

The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.



It's weird.

Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.

But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?

Weird.



There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.

Then there's negativity regardless.

I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are repeated.


Yep.

Remember, we are a playoff team in 2022 until we're not...
Did anyone ask about Harbaugh  
CaLLaHaN : 1/26/2022 2:33 pm : link
?
RE: RE: It  
ajr2456 : 1/26/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15576227 Johnny5 said:
Quote:

Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.

L O L


If stats that prove Jones isn’t good is seen as pushing a narrative in your eyes, that’s a you problem. Sorry some of us are grounded in reality, and not fantasies about what Jones could be if every single thing falls into place.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Jones will be here  
Go Terps : 1/26/2022 2:35 pm : link
In comment 15576223 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 15576212 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15576197 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 15576161 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.

Fourth year of the scholarship.



At that's the negativity I'm talking about.

The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".

So the new GM is honoring it?



We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.



So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?

Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.

But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.


There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.

Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.

Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 2:41 pm : link
Dan Duggan

@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.
RE: Jones was in the audience  
BillKo : 1/26/2022 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15575875 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
What was he supposed to do, point to him and say “that guy sucks?”


And he really doesn't want to piss on him esp if he's going to put him on the trading block.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Jones will be here  
BillKo : 1/26/2022 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15576238 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15576223 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 15576212 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15576197 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 15576161 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.

Fourth year of the scholarship.



At that's the negativity I'm talking about.

The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".

So the new GM is honoring it?



We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.



So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?

Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.

But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.



There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.

Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.

Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.


Again, we are talking 2 0 2 2.

Nothing more.
RE: ...  
Johnny5 : 1/26/2022 2:45 pm : link
In comment 15576244 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan

@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.

You should sticky this. I think it's pretty clear the Giants won't do this. But maybe I'm wrong.
With the exception of Deshaun Watson  
AcesUp : 1/26/2022 2:45 pm : link
I don't think you can glean anything specific out of individual personnel. I liked a few brouder things that he said about his philosophy in using every tool at his disposal and keeping an open mind though. He seemed a little nervous, which is understandable. Overall, it was really a big nothing burger which I am perfectly fine with after 4 years of Gettleman soundbites.

Actions will speak. What HC is hired should provide some insight into how much influence ownership has. What is done with Jones and at his position will indicate how they really feel about him. What decisions are made in the FO after the draft will provide insight into how much is changing structurally and organizationally.
A lot of points we've been beating to death for two plus years  
JonC : 1/26/2022 2:49 pm : link
under DG should face a reckoning between now and May, when Jones' option decision is due.
Actually, been beating them to death closer to 3 years  
JonC : 1/26/2022 2:50 pm : link
for those of us who disliked the Jones draft pick.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 2:59 pm : link
Art Stapleton

@art_stapleton
I asked Joe Schoen if he was working under a timeline to have a head coach hired by the Senior Bowl, which he will attend.

Schoen made a point to say Giants could have HC by Saturday morning. Either way, he hinted that new Giants HC may focus on building staff + stay back in NJ.
RE: Even if they genuinely like Jones  
shyster : 1/26/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15576228 shadow_spinner0 said:
Quote:
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?


The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.

It will well over $30M for 2023.
Coming next fall to theaters near you  
give66 : 1/26/2022 3:01 pm : link
From the knuckleheads that brought you
Win with Eli now brings the sequel Win with Eli II, starring Daneil Jones.
RE: RE: Even if they genuinely like Jones  
shyster : 1/26/2022 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15576292 shyster said:
Quote:


The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.

It will well over $30M for 2023.


Link for projected tags.
cbs - ( New Window )
 
christian : 1/26/2022 3:04 pm : link
In the extraordinary event Daniel Jones earns a multi-year extension, the Giants will tag him and work out that extension.

But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.
RE: …  
Johnny5 : 1/26/2022 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15576300 christian said:
Quote:
In the extraordinary event Daniel Jones earns a multi-year extension, the Giants will tag him and work out that extension.

But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.

You think? I just don't see anyway they execute the 5th year option. There are just too many questions. But Who knows.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 3:10 pm : link
Art Stapleton

@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.

So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.

I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 3:11 pm : link
Art Stapleton

@art_stapleton
Actually, check that: I heard three with Brian Gaine being another.
RE: RE: RE: Even if they genuinely like Jones  
NYPanos : 1/26/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15576297 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 15576292 shyster said:


Quote:




The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
It will well over $30M for 2023.



Link for projected tags. cbs - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: I mean...  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 3:14 pm : link
In comment 15576093 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576015 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15575982 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


In comment 15575965 Amtoft said:


Quote:


I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.



Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.

If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.



I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.




You know what, you're right. I didn't read your full comment, and apologize for how I replied.

I still disagree with your general outlook on Jones, but shouldn't have answered in that way.


Thank you... and now I feel like a dick for my reply. hahaha I can be like that sometimes and it wasn't necessary so I apologize also for my rude response.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Even if they genuinely like Jones  
NYPanos : 1/26/2022 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15576318 NYPanos said:
Quote:
In comment 15576297 shyster said:


Quote:


In comment 15576292 shyster said:


Quote:




The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
It will well over $30M for 2023.



Link for projected tags. cbs - ( New Window )



I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
That's what I always say about a QB, HC, you name it  
JonC : 1/26/2022 3:17 pm : link
Do I think they'll be hoisting a Lombardi for NYG. It's a high bar but I'm not looking to be fookin average here.
...  
christian : 1/26/2022 3:31 pm : link
Put yourself in Shoen's place. Your boss goes out and tells the world what he thinks of the most important player on the team, before you even have a desk chair.

We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.

And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.

Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?

He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 3:39 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - will discuss Jones' 5th yr option, but very high on his attitude/talent, saying the OL must be fixed to help out Jones and Barkley do their thing

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - excited about Barkley's skills, said he has rare talent.

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - may have a HC in place (collaborative decision with team owners) as soon as Saturday morning, but not automatic..if front office doesn't agree, there could be "a couple" other candidates added to the current list

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen on OL - got to fix it, get thru the draft or pro personnel dept finding guys and also via a coaching staff that develops linemen

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - still has much hope jones is the right QB -- says much has hindered with his progress: changing HCs and coordinators and a poor OL
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 3:48 pm : link
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - would not call any HC candidate a favorite, and said Flores will have to discuss the reported issues that caused his firing in miami

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - said plan is to "compete today and still build for tomorrow"...says it is critical to draft, develop and retain you own players

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - admitted tight cap will cause some tough decisions and may begin discussing how to work it with Kevin Abrams by the end of the week

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - said he already had done much work on the first four rounds of draft prospects while in buffalo and will have to catch up on free agency

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - stressed continuity, especially involving things around the QB, as being an important part of winning

GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - grew up in Indiana and was a big Bill Parcells fan...fave player was Mark Bavaro...so he was a huge Giants fan..learned a lot of Tuna about building a team and still talks with him often
RE: ...  
NYPanos : 1/26/2022 3:48 pm : link
In comment 15576351 christian said:
Quote:
Put yourself in Shoen's place. Your boss goes out and tells the world what he thinks of the most important player on the team, before you even have a desk chair.

We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.

And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.

Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?

He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.


Agreed
RE: Shocking That He's Going to Discuss Salary Cap  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15575970 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
with the guy in the building who knows most about the current state of the salary cap. Maybe he should start with the towel guy.

The guy in the building who knows the most about the salary cap isn't that great with the salary cap. Let's not grade on a curve.
RE: Hes said like 3 times the cap is bad,  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 3:56 pm : link
In comment 15575944 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
The Cap needs work, difficult decisions ahead.

That needs to be written in the sky for all to understand.

I wouldn't worry about it. DJM says that the cap is basically fiction.
What's all the  
Photoguy : 1/26/2022 4:13 pm : link
fuss? There seems to be a bit of grumbling already, and I don't think it's warranted.

I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.

RE: What's all the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15576470 Photoguy said:
Quote:
fuss? There seems to be a bit of grumbling already, and I don't think it's warranted.

I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.


The "fuss" is some people did not hear what they wanted to hear. What do I mean?

Those who wanted Schoen to pick the HC. Schoen said he would only be one voice to decide.

Those who wanted to part ways with Daniel Jones. Schoen (and Mara) basically said that Jones will be here in 2022. (He also seemed to be positive on Barkley - another lightning rod).
RE: RE: RE: It  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 4:37 pm : link
In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?


Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
Here is a link to the press conference  
ZogZerg : 1/26/2022 4:55 pm : link
..
GM Joe Schoen Introductory Press Conference | New York Giants - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 5:02 pm : link
In comment 15576308 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Art Stapleton

@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.

So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.

I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.

Cowden would make a ton of sense. And if Schoen was already fait accompli before the GM search really took shape, than everything else was air cover for a Cowden interview for AGM.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/26/2022 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.

That's not completion percentage.

It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
ajr2456 : 1/26/2022 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.


It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 6:28 pm : link
In comment 15576576 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.


That's not completion percentage.

It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.


Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?

Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 6:29 pm : link
In comment 15576585 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.



It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage


His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
ajr2456 : 1/26/2022 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15576713 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576585 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.



It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage



His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.


You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.

PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket
. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 8:34 pm : link
In comment 15576967 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576713 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576585 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.



It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage



His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.



You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.

PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket . - ( New Window )


I am pretty sure I am not looking at the bad reference.... let us be clear here. If you are citing 52% on target from a clean pocket on target then you are saying his WRs, RB, and TEs are making up for the minus 12.4% of his over accuracy and that isn't even including that his throws from a clean pocket should be more on target creating an even higher percentage of accuracy unlike when he is under pressure. No way that stat is right as that would be that our WRs, RBs, and TEs were amazing making catches they shouldn't have. I can't believe that stat and you shouldn't either, but I do love the find a stat you like method you did.
Pro football reference lists him at 76.  
ajr2456 : 1/26/2022 8:45 pm : link
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
RE: Pro football reference lists him at 76.  
Amtoft : 1/26/2022 8:53 pm : link
In comment 15577043 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.


Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?

I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
More Devoid of talent  
aka dbrny : 1/26/2022 9:11 pm : link
“ Obviously, there are some positions that are a little bit more devoid of talent than others.”….devoid is a pretty strong (and accurate for some positions) choice of words.
RE: RE: Pro football reference lists him at 76.  
ajr2456 : 1/26/2022 9:12 pm : link
In comment 15577062 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15577043 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.



Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?

I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.


Illogical tweet? The person who posted works for PFF…. He didn’t just make up PFFs. You can look up on PFF how they quantify their stats but it’s much more involved than Pro Football Reference’s.

I’m not sure why you keep harping on completion percentage.

Quote:
Accurate Passes: Perfect, Frame, Away from Coverage

Using these three categories puts the 2017 NFL average for accuracy at 56.8 percent and average for “perfect” passes at 16.0 percent.

Catchable Inaccurate passes: High, Low, Front, Back

These passes are all somewhat on the receiver’s frame and in a “catchable” range, but they’re “inaccurate” in at least one of four directions.

Uncatchable Inaccurate passes: Overthrow, Underthrow, In Front, Behind

The uncatchable bucket includes a number of other categories, including plays made by the defender, but the basic concept is the quarterback is throwing a pass that is uncatchable either due to accuracy or a lack of velocity.


Are you going to keep telling me I’m wrong?
Accuracy - ( New Window )
Honestly  
Johnny5 : 1/26/2022 10:33 pm : link
I don't know why I feel compelled to keep responding to you ajr.

Amtoft I told you you will never get the last word in with this guy. I think he is Daniel Jones jilted lover from Duke or something... LOL

ajr you remind of rookie engineers I work with that look at everything as a mathematical equation without having any real world experience to adjust their calcs for real life.

"We need 300kW for that row!"
Me: OK 400A at 415V gets you 287kW. Your typical utilization per row is less than 200kW.
"That's not enough we need 300kW per row!"
Me: OK we will have to run 600A end feeds at 415V. Those are twice the price, and we have to bolster up the Gordon grid points where they hang. You are costing your company roughly $500k in additional costs to give you another 13kW per row, when you only need 200kW."
"Yes but we need 300kW per row!!"

There are other factors to look at other than math, especially from a tweet with no context.
It’s weird that you keep feeling compelled to respond to me  
ajr2456 : 1/27/2022 5:42 am : link
When I’m not even talking to you and you came at me for “wanting to argue”. Enjoy watching your games at the bar.
RE: RE: Pro football reference lists him at 76.  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/27/2022 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15577062 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15577043 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.



Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?

I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.

This isn't as complicated as you're making it.

The 52% is the rate of throws that are properly "on-target" from a clean pocket. They are not related to completion. Receivers can catch bad balls and drop good balls. Those are different stats. The point of that statistic is that DJ's accuracy - in terms of his throw, agnostic of whether the ball is caught - isn't markedly better even with a clean pocket.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/27/2022 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15576708 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576576 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:


Quote:


In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:


Quote:


sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.

The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.

Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.



I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.



Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?



Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.

Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.


That's not completion percentage.

It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.



Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?

Think you guys need to check those numbers again.

What you're referencing there is his completion percentage on on-target throws.

The PFF stat is the percentage of his throws that were on-target.

You have to carve it out on both sides of the throw/catch.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner