Was Josh Allen higher on his draft board than Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen?
Well we know that Allen was higher on his board than Rosen as they passed on Rosen.
Good point, I had forgotten the order.
i also doubt he is gonna say we had darnold higher as he appears to be a bust.
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
Not true. Brandon Beane has spoken in detail about the pre-draft and draft process and Allen was their target.
Bills did not make their second trade up until Mayfield and Darnold had been taken by the two teams the Bills could not jump.
Allen was the number two Vegas betting favorite to go number one overall through most of the draft process, and many analysts had him as the number one prospect (Chris Simms for one).
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
I wouldn't say that. Leading up to the draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Allen and Mayfield for 1st overall.
May I ask you exactly what you expect this guy to say in an introductory presser before they even have a coaching staff?
Was just going to say the same thing, it was a canned answer and if he has met with Jones the last two days, he is going to go ahead and bash him the presser? Doesn't make sense.
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
RE: He's going to get together with Kevin Abrams to formulate a plan
anything else is tipping the hat in free agency and the draft. Jones is under contract and relatively cheap, whatever is said just now might change by circumstance or planning when we get to free agency and the draft.
The real test of 'building around Jones' is and always has been the option decision.
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
still referring to 11 draft picks. Is that right? Everyone else says it's nine.
Jones being the starter in 2022 is hardly surprising. His injury history means he likely has little trade value and we have limited cap space to sign a veteran. After 2023, nothing is guaranteed. Same for Barkley.
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
The common assumption in the local media then was that Jones was still up and coming. It's an entirely different situation now.
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
Big difference between a HC's introductory presser and a new GM's. Especially when a coaching staff isn't even in place yet.
* Likes Daniel Jones. - pump up trade value
* Will compete and rebuild at same time - Versus losing out of the gate
* Collaboration - standard buzz word
* Not picking his own Head Coach - Mara's always have final say
quite and calm, but we didn't hire him for his personality. We hired him because of his ability to work with others and ability to evaluate players.
My guess is that he will have final authority on player decisions. The Giants went outside the organization for a new GM for the first time in decades. That wouldn't have happened unless they were willing to give the new GM that authority. And none of the better GM candidates like Schoen would have taken the job unless that was a given.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
That was Judge's MO but even if it wasn't, at the time Jones was 100% their guy for the next 1-2 years anyways so they didn't have to be concerned with his trade value. Of course, it's also possible that he'll get this year and they'll punt on the draft crop in the first round while possibly bringing in a vet or mid round QB for competition.
First there’s consensus they followed a good process and picked the best guy. Then as soon as he says what you don’t want to here, he’s an idiot and we’re in trouble. Geesuz. I swear my IQ goes down every time I read BBI. Enjoy your misery… y’all seem to live for it.
First there’s consensus they followed a good process and picked the best guy. Then as soon as he says what you don’t want to here, he’s an idiot and we’re in trouble. Geesuz. I swear my IQ goes down every time I read BBI. Enjoy your misery… y’all seem to live for it.
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
As of today, yes he's their QB.
Plenty of people across sports get a vote of confidence right before they're no longer with the team. Honestly, I'd be more concerned if he didn't pump up Jones
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
an introductory press conference. He isn't going to lay out the plan for the team. And, yes, he ultimately has to answer to Tisch and Mara. Does any GM have complete and full autonomy over every aspect of the team?
Of course, the plan is to have the team compete now. That's what we ALL want. He isn't going to come out and say, "yeah, 2022 is a throwaway year."
Let's see what happens over the coming weeks. He has been in the job five freaking days.
RE: What player did Schoen trade this week to pick up
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
I always thought that was going to be the case. There's a QB draft class and free agency class to evaluate, and the option decision to make on Jones. Outside of injury news the only noteworthy news pre-draft on Jones is the option decision. Everything else at this point is chaff.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Man... I hate to say it
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
He said he said he was going to get a HC and then go through the tape looking at Daniel Jones. He said more but what did you expect him to say... I hate Daniel Jones he is gone!
only positive game he could site was against NO at the beginning of the season. Everything after that sucked.
Don't know if anyone remembers this, but at Gettleman's intro presser someone asked him if had seen any of Eli's games that year and Gettleman said something like, "I saw the 2nd game against Philly" (one of the few where Eli played well that season).
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
These owners will never just put their head in the sand
Fans will need to accept that. I’m not going to overreact to words at this point. I thought he conducted himself well and liked the philosophy on team building.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
He said he said he was going to get a HC and then go through the tape looking at Daniel Jones. He said more but what did you expect him to say... I hate Daniel Jones he is gone!
Yea. Bbi wanted him to out everyone and devalue every asset we have.
He should have come out and jus been like jones is hot trash. He wont be here lkng rest easy fans.
Let's see what they do with 5th year option for DJ.
Just b/c he talked positively about Jones does not mean he will be the starter in September. They could make a trade, bring in a vet to compete in training camp, draft a QB...etc
Its all first presser BS. Can't just throw gas on the pile and then light it on fire
Just said a very good thing that he learned from Parcells
Know what you want on your roster. Coaches can come and go.
Overall, I think he is trying to present a "collaborative" effort but he gave enough to me at least that he expects and will demand a certain way of doing things.
I would not expect him to be nothing but positive on Jones for now.
The HC hire certainly can give the impression that ownership is involved but not sure what people want. "Ownership has absolutely no say in who I am hiring!"
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
He’s not the one who sounds like he’s wound too tight…
only positive game he could site was against NO at the beginning of the season. Everything after that sucked.
He was answering a question about talent level and he referenced the NO game because it was, as he said, the one where the team had most of its intended starters on the field.
I'll take a GM who's a little nervous and humble versus arogant and stupid. And in the end, pressers are such a small part of a GM's job. If he excells at the important stuff, then I'm good.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
Why would we expect different this year? There isn’t squat this year at qb and we have a lot of crap to fix first.
Fix the line first play Jones this year if it clicks for him great if not get the qb next year. We will suck this year no matter what so a high pick shouldn’t be an issue
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
He’s not the one who sounds like he’s wound too tight…
"He doesn't sound like a guy given carte blanche to overhaul the operation" sounds like the opinion of someone wound too tight?
He believes in building through the draft and implementing analytics and sports performance in the building. I am all on board with respect to those initiatives.
He also knows that there will be a lot of pain involved in getting the salary cap straightened out.
Bottom line for me is that as a GM he has experience evaluating players. That’s big for me.
Let’s give the guy time to get his processes in place and a HC and staff he can work with.
RE: RE: Let's see what they do with 5th year option for DJ.
gonna look at qbs in the draft? The fact he endorsed DJ in an intro press conference means nothing. It could be his true feeling but it could also be gamesmanship as he certainly doesn't want rivals to know his plans come draft night.
When asked about Jones. We are going to get a HC and go through the whole roster. See what Jones does best and put him in a position to win. He has to say that. What if Jones is his QB this year because they couldn't get a better one through FA, Trade, or the draft. Behind closed doors though he could absolutely decide to move on from Jones. Me I hope he doesn't. I think when Jones has time he is very good.
When asked if he has full control of hiring a HC or owners involved. Again what did you think he was going to say. I am the man the owners don't get a say. No of course not. He is going to be respectful and say we will sit down together and if we don't agree we will look at it more. That doesn't mean he doesn't have full control.
Anyways just my opinion that those answer don't really tell us one way or the other about Jones or the owners involvement. Time will tell us that not his respectful answers.
did well. As someone said, he's pretty young and likely has never faced such a large collection of reporters. There were never going to be any blockbuster statements during an introductory press conference. I liked his calm demeanor.
Kevin Abrams: Hey Joe
Joe Schoen: Hey Kevin. Good to see you. Thanks for meeting with me. First question: how the fuck did you and Gettleman fuck up the cap so badly?
You all sound like the media. You actually hang on every single word. Nothing he says will satisfy anyone and it never will. Yes he was nervous but when have GMs ever commanded the room? JJ blew us away and it was all bullshit. As far as I’m concerned he gets the benefit of the doubt. Let him do his fricking job!
I thought he was nervous reading his statement, but did very well when asked questions. I still don't get the 11 picks thing. Even if we had the Panthers pick which we don't that is only 10.
Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
John Mara said the hope is to get the new head coach set up by the middle of next week at the latest. Adds he feels good about the candidate pool they have.
Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
Dan Salomone
@Dan_Salomone
John Mara admits they’ve done everything to screw it up for Daniel Jones with all the changes in the past. They are certainly not giving up on him.
and that's it. "Meet our dude, hope you're happy."
He's not going to give the other teams any competitive intelligence. He's certainly not going to tell this roster his plans, or that its not important to win right now. He may be honest about his chances to win, but funny things happen on the football field.
He acknowledge the roster and cap are issues. He is not going to say how he plans to fix those things, only that his process is designed to do it. I am encouraged by what I heard, since his process seems designed to compete in today's NFL, but what do I know.
We'll all know for sure if he's the right guy in 2 or 3 years or so. That's not to say we can't question individual moves, but he's going to have a long leash.
Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
Mara still a fool , but this doesn’t mean much.
How refreshing not to have a condescending "know-it-all" like DG
Then he must be #1 on your hit list because he basically said that for every question :P
It has becomes every PR professional's first tip to their clients, because someone decided it makes the person asking the question feel good, and therefore creates a positive feeling toward the person being asked the questions. It's stupid.
"oh no he's a Mara yes men" "Abrams is staying", "he likes Jones", FFS people he's not gonna lay out his whole plan like trading the QB, and firing everyone in an introductory press conference. I thought he did fine, he looked nervous but overall did well. My favorite part was embracing analytics and moving the giants in a new direction that way. If anyone expected him to come out and rip apart the roster publicly and say what a bad job everyone in the front office has done then they don't know how these things work.
I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it. Jones doesn't have that. I watch so many receivers making plays for their QB and you hardly ever see that on the Giants. In fact you see easy drops for first downs and TDs. You put Jones on Cincy or the Bills or the Chargers he isn't as good as Burrow, Herbert, or Allen, but he would be a very good QB and talked about highly also.
to say one thing but actually do the right thing in the end.
Yes- and why we should be patient but also have every right to continue to be skeptical until success and winning returns in a sustainable and meaningful way.
Not picking up the 5th year option will say everything
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
the guy said he has his system and its about implementing that. if people in house fit that system, they can stay-- but its his system and how he evaluates a roster and team build.
11 picks- his job is to nail those, and fix the cap to start. hire the right coach.
as for Jones, there is no QB on the roster worth a lick outside of him--- he will get a shot this year- who the fk cares- what are they supposed to do at QB? or say about QB?
I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
the guy said he has his system and its about implementing that. if people in house fit that system, they can stay-- but its his system and how he evaluates a roster and team build.
11 picks- his job is to nail those, and fix the cap to start. hire the right coach.
as for Jones, there is no QB on the roster worth a lick outside of him--- he will get a shot this year- who the fk cares- what are they supposed to do at QB? or say about QB?
1000% agree with all of this. Lot's of overanalyzing and jumping to conclusions.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
$19M or $23M for Jones is a horrible use of money.
RE: RE: Not picking up the 5th year option will say everything
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
If they were 100% in on Jones they’d pick up the option, being that this team is likely to be bad again next year.
With these dumb ass PC's. We all fell for Judge's PC so what now we hear only negative with Schoen's? Come on. BTW, we only really have Jones on the roster at the moment, what else should they say? What if they want to try and trade him, going to say he sucks first? Come on..
IIRC the previous Buffalo GM was fired right after the draft.
People thought it was nuts but it gave Brandon Beane and his team a full year to get ready for the next draft and retool the scouting dept.
This year is going to be a transition year. He's going to be evaluating everything and everyone. Some people will stay ("the right people..."), some will shift positions (... "in the right seats"), some will go. The Maras fetishize stability; hopefully he can convince them that stability for stability's sake isn't a good thing. Hopefully he'll have a little more churn and will always be looking to upgrade, or to move people over, or to promote them, if it's best for the organization.
I don't believe in the business school idea of churning your least-productive 20% of employees, but I think there's a happy medium between the Ronnie Barnes/Tom Quinn model, where guys seem to stick around forever, and the change-your-HC-every-two-years plan the Giants have stumbled into.
Ralph Vacchiano
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@RVacchianoSNY
"If you want to see Daniel Jones put his best foot forward, he's got to be on his feet. If you want to see what Saquon can do, it would be nice if we could block guys."
— From my one on one with new Giants GM Joe Schoen 👇
Ralph Vacchiano
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@RVacchianoSNY
GM Joe Schoen on trading for Deahaun Watson: “Knowing where we are salary-cap-wise and the pending legal issues, I don’t know how we could go down that road.”
Then he must be #1 on your hit list because he basically said that for every question :P
It has becomes every PR professional's first tip to their clients, because someone decided it makes the person asking the question feel good, and therefore creates a positive feeling toward the person being asked the questions. It's stupid.
Ralph Vacchiano
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@RVacchianoSNY
Giants GM Joe Schoen said they could have a head coach in place by Saturday morning if they decide “We’ve got our guy” from the first group of interviews.
But he added “there are a couple more names we’ve discussed” if they decide to expand the search.
are going to give Jones another scholarship season next year. We just have to face that fact.
That said, I struggle to see where there is a lot going for him to work with (as Mara seems to promise) to be clear evidence he's a franchise guy.
The receiving weapons are all questionable right now (Golladay/Toney) and OL will likely take multiple offseasons to improve steadily and consistently. They also need TEs and depth at RB.
Jones will have his work cut out for him and I don't think they're going to keep giving any more excuses to be fair.
If Jones is mediocre and they finish even 6-11 or 7-10, they're within striking distance of QBs in draft next year.
I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
In reply to your continued ability to not having reading comprehension I didn't say that was the only difference between them. I said Jones doesn't get help from his WRs. Burrows can just throw it up and Chase and Higgins come down with it and make plays. Do you not agree with that? Do you think the Giants receivers make plays for Jones? routinely make contested catches, break tackles and take it to the house, not drop easy catches, etc. This wasn't a knock on Burrow at all. Burrow knows if Chase is one on one there is a good chance he is going to go up and get the ball. Jones doesn't have anyone like that. I said Jones would be good on Cincy, but not as good as Burrow.
So yes I know what I am talking about you just can't read. Please don't take that the wrong way.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
Among those current Giants players in attendance for Joe Schoen's introduction: Daniel Jones, Sterling Shepard and Logan Ryan.
Also in attendance: Patrick Graham, who will interview for the HC job later today.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
The issue is Schoen has to make relatively quick evaluations on whether Barkley and Jones can be foundational in his rebuild in one season. Next offseason will be telling.
Commitment (at high cost) to keeping Barkley and Jones in 2023 and not improving, will put Schoen on a quick hot seat.
Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
Among those current Giants players in attendance for Joe Schoen's introduction: Daniel Jones, Sterling Shepard and Logan Ryan.
Also in attendance: Patrick Graham, who will interview for the HC job later today.
Sterling Shepard better talk to Schoen about taking a pay cut if he wants to be with this team in 2 months
RE: He's already a lot more impressive than Gettleman
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Careful. When the Jones/Barkley sucks squad see this, they will follow you and force their opinions on that suckitude over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and ov...
Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
Big takeaway: Ownership and Joe Schoen are believers in Daniel Jones. Schoen said they plan to build the offense around Jones. Mara said, “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.”
Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
Big takeaway: Ownership and Joe Schoen are believers in Daniel Jones. Schoen said they plan to build the offense around Jones. Mara said, “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.”
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Important to note that Schoen didn’t comment when asked if he planned to pick up Jones’ fifth-year option. Actions will speak louder than words there.
Tom Rock
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@TomRock_Newsday
How does Joe Schoen plan to fix the offensive line? "You have to get better players. I mean, that's the best way to fix it... We have to look wherever we can." He notes the limits in FA based on cap. "We can all talk about what the problems are, our job is to find solutions."
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Important to note that Schoen didn’t comment when asked if he planned to pick up Jones’ fifth-year option. Actions will speak louder than words there.
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
How does Joe Schoen plan to fix the offensive line? "You have to get better players. I mean, that's the best way to fix it... We have to look wherever we can." He notes the limits in FA based on cap. "We can all talk about what the problems are, our job is to find solutions."
of the New York Football Giants just said they are sticking with Daniel Jones.
We're just going to have to accept it.
At this point, I don't have a problem with that. The team needs to address the issues in the trenches this off-season, it a poor QB class coming into the draft, and the 2022 salary cap is not good. I would like to see them cleanup the trenches, see how DJ performs next, and then make the call on his future with the team.
and keeping Graham as DC. That would be disappointing. Shoen had his guy from the start and Mara forced Graham. I dont like either coach
Meh, Daboll is a good candidate and already has a working relationship with Graham. And Graham did a lot with basically bottom barrel pass rush this season. Get him more and better pass rushers.
Anyway no one knows what the staff will look like yet. I really like Flores, he is the guy I want but I won't be sad if it's Daboll. And I certainly don't hate Graham. Let it play out. And then complain... lol
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Parcells and Fox. Two defensive guys. Then his mentor going with a D HC.
Liked how he said he still talks with Parcells. I hope Parcells told him, "I hope you learned that you have to be able to run between the tackles come playoff time to keep advancing". Also nice that both Fox and Parcells spoke very highly of the Giants as a organization.
Pretty incredible day for him. Fan at 4 years old and here you are tasked with returning a franchise to glory you grew up admiring.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
What else are they going to say? Picking up his option or not and who they draft/sign will tell us more. If they don't publicly endorse Jones, they lose leverage in any trades
I hope Parcells told him, "I hope you learned that you have to be able to run between the tackles come playoff time to keep advancing". Also nice that both Fox and Parcells spoke very highly of the Giants as a organization.
. [/quote]
Is this true though? San Frans best running game is sweeps to the outside with Deebo. Bengals have ran the ball well either game. The Rams running game is mostly outside and secondary to their passing game. And the Chiefs are the Chiefs.
you guys would be happy from that presser, would he of Schoen was dressed like John Belushi at the end of “Animal House”, climbed up on top of the Quest Diagnostic ctr, brandishing his sword saying “no prisoners, John Mara, he’s a dead man, Chris Mara- dead , Tisch - dead, Jones -« .
Would that make everyone happy?
I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
You know what, you're right. I didn't read your full comment, and apologize for how I replied.
I still disagree with your general outlook on Jones, but shouldn't have answered in that way.
you guys would be happy from that presser, would he of Schoen was dressed like John Belushi at the end of “Animal House”, climbed up on top of the Quest Diagnostic ctr, brandishing his sword saying “no prisoners, John Mara, he’s a dead man, Chris Mara- dead , Tisch - dead, Jones -« .
Would that make everyone happy?
you guys would be happy from that presser, would he of Schoen was dressed like John Belushi at the end of “Animal House”, climbed up on top of the Quest Diagnostic ctr, brandishing his sword saying “no prisoners, John Mara, he’s a dead man, Chris Mara- dead , Tisch - dead, Jones -« .
Would that make everyone happy?
No. That's sounds stupid.
The idiocy on this site has gotten completely out of hand.
is plausible and logical. From an outsider looking in, Jones showed promise as a rookie, and Garrett’s pathetic offense did him NO favors the last two years. They will build an offense around what Jones does well and see how he does with it. If you’re stuck with him him this year, it’s the right answer and approach.
or "the cap isn't that bad" (and there are a couple here who feel that way), Schoen clearly doesn't agree with that mindset as he said multiple times in this PC that the cap is a mess. He clearly very much believes that, and he's right.
is plausible and logical. From an outsider looking in, Jones showed promise as a rookie, and Garrett’s pathetic offense did him NO favors the last two years. They will build an offense around what Jones does well and see how he does with it. If you’re stuck with him him this year, it’s the right answer and approach.
but what about the fifth year?
If Schoen picks up the 5th year option i'm out on Schoen.
and keeping Graham as DC. That would be disappointing. Shoen had his guy from the start and Mara forced Graham. I dont like either coach
Schoen having his guy is not a problem for me. It proves it is his pick and not Mara, and that he has a vision and a plan. I personally would prefer a re-tread, because i think the org and fan base is fragile and impatient, but if that's his guy, that's his guy.
I'm sure we will have plenty of time for the "mara forced Graham" narrative if it happens. But, if Daboll is the coach, he is a Belichick guy, and he overlapped with PG for several years in NE. Infact I believe BD was TE coach and PG was LB coach. So they interacted quite a bit.
Also, If we can get Fangio...HELL YES. Is Wink a possibility? Is that an upgrade or a philosophical match? If not the PG is in the same level as the rest. A demonstrated good DC, with room to improve.
Is they’ll improve the line and Jones rookie year turnover issues resurface, proving that Garrett and Judge reigned in the offense to limit the turnovers
And out of desperation, they have put their faith in the next man up. We saw this with Judge. Everyone wanted to believe he would be the rational guy in the room that would fix the problem. We even saw many who argued that it was Judge who was really running things.
Now Schoen is up. The faith is now on this man. Some people have placed unquestioned faith in him despite the fact that he hasn't earned it yet.
But when something gets said or hinted at the disrupts from the narrative, people are lashing out at each other.
For example, a fan may have unquestioned faith in Schoen and that Mara is no longer interfering. That same fan may be convinced that Daniel Jones sucks. So when the owner and new GM come out and defend Jones, they can't accept that or make excuses for it.
Have they committed 100 percent to Jones? Who knows. As posted, much depends on whether they accept the 5th-year option. But the Giants have never been good at smoke and pretty much wear their hearts on the sleeves. What I heard today is that Daniel Jones is getting another season.
but I don't know how anyone can get worked up either way. This is all going to play out shortly.
I would argue that even bigger than the Schoen hire is going to be the head coach. Joe Judge overwhelmingly won his introduction day and look where that got us. We can't keep hiring bad coaches, especially if you believe (I do) that the Head Coach is the true power player in the NFL.
I do think I may have heard a slip from Schoen that perhaps they have their coach (Daboll) in place already and they're pretty certain of that. I want them to take their time. There's no reason we have to name someone by Friday. I would liked to have seen them talk to Ryans. Maybe they should talk to Pederson?
I haven't read any comments on BBI by anyone that thinks Jones isn't going to be here next season. No one is predicting this (injury aside).
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
I haven't read any comments on BBI by anyone that thinks Jones isn't going to be here next season. No one is predicting this (injury aside).
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
A lot of fans are convinced that Jones won't be on the roster next year.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
Is they’ll improve the line and Jones rookie year turnover issues resurface, proving that Garrett and Judge reigned in the offense to limit the turnovers
I think that makes for an extremely simple and non controversial decision to move on.
There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Thought he did well in his first presser. Heard alot of GM speak but liked the points on using data analytics and developing a team through the draft and "retaining players" (multiple times).
I wonder what his views on moving up or down in the draft are? No one asked that. What has he done in the past?
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There are some people that can watch a plane fly into a mountain at 500 MPH and still convince themselves everyone onboard is ok.
I've been called negative and miserable on here for years - I've never understood it considering I was just saying the sky is blue.
There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are repeated.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
Those stats don’t anything to do with scheme, they’re about accuracy. Not whether the throw was caught or not. But whether it was within a like three foot radius of the intended target.
You replied to a comment that wasn’t addressing you with “lol, see” and are telling someone else they don’t have to argue. Weird stuff.
We all pretty much assumed unless there was a can't miss QB pool in draft this year, we weren't getting a QB.
2023 is the tell-tale year.
If they put chips in on Jones and Barkley going forward in 2023 (no guarantee they do) and it doesn't work out, it'll be bad for everyone (including Schoen).
I haven't read any comments on BBI by anyone that thinks Jones isn't going to be here next season. No one is predicting this (injury aside).
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
A lot of fans are convinced that Jones won't be on the roster next year.
I don't read that.
A lot of fans have expressed they don't want Jones on the roster but that isn't making the leap he won't...
They probably didn't spend a lot of time scouting QBs in the 2019 draft. And he'd have no reason to spend a lot of time on an NFC QB who's under contract for a long time. Plus he's just saying press conference things.
I'd be shocked if he really thinks Jones is anywhere close to the answer. If he does, we're completely screwed for another 5 years. But Jones being a bad QB is really obvious.
mara once again proves how fucking dumb he is. today should have been about schoen. mara should have fielded zero questions about anything other than the process of hiring schoen. and if he got asked about the roster or a new coach his answer should have been that's a question for the GM. very easy (whether it's true or not). but he didn't do that.
instead we hear about how bad mara feels about not giving jones a chance and how he believes in him. then we hear schoen reiterate and how he wants to build around jones to give him a fair chance. true or not it makes schoen look like a puppet, where mara lays out the plan and it's schoen's job to make that philosphy work.
and this coming on the heels of mara forcing building around eli on the last GM.
pat hanlon should have been fired a long time ago. should have been fired again after his twitter incident with the scout. and should be fired again after today. today was not a good look for this team. it looks like more of the same to me especially coming on the heels of Peppers posts.
today did not leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. it made me feel like there are a lot more dark days ahead.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
Those stats don’t anything to do with scheme, they’re about accuracy. Not whether the throw was caught or not. But whether it was within a like three foot radius of the intended target.
You replied to a comment that wasn’t addressing you with “lol, see” and are telling someone else they don’t have to argue. Weird stuff.
Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are repeated.
Yep.
Remember, we are a playoff team in 2022 until we're not...
Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.
L O L
If stats that prove Jones isn’t good is seen as pushing a narrative in your eyes, that’s a you problem. Sorry some of us are grounded in reality, and not fantasies about what Jones could be if every single thing falls into place.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?
Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.
But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.
There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.
Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.
Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?
Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.
But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.
There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.
Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.
Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.
You should sticky this. I think it's pretty clear the Giants won't do this. But maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think you can glean anything specific out of individual personnel. I liked a few brouder things that he said about his philosophy in using every tool at his disposal and keeping an open mind though. He seemed a little nervous, which is understandable. Overall, it was really a big nothing burger which I am perfectly fine with after 4 years of Gettleman soundbites.
Actions will speak. What HC is hired should provide some insight into how much influence ownership has. What is done with Jones and at his position will indicate how they really feel about him. What decisions are made in the FO after the draft will provide insight into how much is changing structurally and organizationally.
A lot of points we've been beating to death for two plus years
Art Stapleton
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@art_stapleton
I asked Joe Schoen if he was working under a timeline to have a head coach hired by the Senior Bowl, which he will attend.
Schoen made a point to say Giants could have HC by Saturday morning. Either way, he hinted that new Giants HC may focus on building staff + stay back in NJ.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
In the extraordinary event Daniel Jones earns a multi-year extension, the Giants will tag him and work out that extension.
But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.
In the extraordinary event Daniel Jones earns a multi-year extension, the Giants will tag him and work out that extension.
But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.
You think? I just don't see anyway they execute the 5th year option. There are just too many questions. But Who knows.
Art Stapleton
✔
@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.
So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.
I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.
The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
It will well over $30M for 2023.
I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
You know what, you're right. I didn't read your full comment, and apologize for how I replied.
I still disagree with your general outlook on Jones, but shouldn't have answered in that way.
Thank you... and now I feel like a dick for my reply. hahaha I can be like that sometimes and it wasn't necessary so I apologize also for my rude response.
The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
It will well over $30M for 2023.
Link for projected tags. cbs - ( New Window )
I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
That's what I always say about a QB, HC, you name it
Put yourself in Shoen's place. Your boss goes out and tells the world what he thinks of the most important player on the team, before you even have a desk chair.
We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.
And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.
Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?
He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - will discuss Jones' 5th yr option, but very high on his attitude/talent, saying the OL must be fixed to help out Jones and Barkley do their thing
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - excited about Barkley's skills, said he has rare talent.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - may have a HC in place (collaborative decision with team owners) as soon as Saturday morning, but not automatic..if front office doesn't agree, there could be "a couple" other candidates added to the current list
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen on OL - got to fix it, get thru the draft or pro personnel dept finding guys and also via a coaching staff that develops linemen
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - still has much hope jones is the right QB -- says much has hindered with his progress: changing HCs and coordinators and a poor OL
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - would not call any HC candidate a favorite, and said Flores will have to discuss the reported issues that caused his firing in miami
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - said plan is to "compete today and still build for tomorrow"...says it is critical to draft, develop and retain you own players
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - admitted tight cap will cause some tough decisions and may begin discussing how to work it with Kevin Abrams by the end of the week
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - said he already had done much work on the first four rounds of draft prospects while in buffalo and will have to catch up on free agency
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - stressed continuity, especially involving things around the QB, as being an important part of winning
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - grew up in Indiana and was a big Bill Parcells fan...fave player was Mark Bavaro...so he was a huge Giants fan..learned a lot of Tuna about building a team and still talks with him often
Put yourself in Shoen's place. Your boss goes out and tells the world what he thinks of the most important player on the team, before you even have a desk chair.
We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.
And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.
Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?
He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.
Agreed
RE: Shocking That He's Going to Discuss Salary Cap
fuss? There seems to be a bit of grumbling already, and I don't think it's warranted.
I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.
fuss? There seems to be a bit of grumbling already, and I don't think it's warranted.
I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.
The "fuss" is some people did not hear what they wanted to hear. What do I mean?
Those who wanted Schoen to pick the HC. Schoen said he would only be one voice to decide.
Those who wanted to part ways with Daniel Jones. Schoen (and Mara) basically said that Jones will be here in 2022. (He also seemed to be positive on Barkley - another lightning rod).
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
Art Stapleton
✔
@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.
So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.
I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.
Cowden would make a ton of sense. And if Schoen was already fait accompli before the GM search really took shape, than everything else was air cover for a Cowden interview for AGM.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket . - ( New Window )
I am pretty sure I am not looking at the bad reference.... let us be clear here. If you are citing 52% on target from a clean pocket on target then you are saying his WRs, RB, and TEs are making up for the minus 12.4% of his over accuracy and that isn't even including that his throws from a clean pocket should be more on target creating an even higher percentage of accuracy unlike when he is under pressure. No way that stat is right as that would be that our WRs, RBs, and TEs were amazing making catches they shouldn't have. I can't believe that stat and you shouldn't either, but I do love the find a stat you like method you did.
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
“ Obviously, there are some positions that are a little bit more devoid of talent than others.”….devoid is a pretty strong (and accurate for some positions) choice of words.
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
Illogical tweet? The person who posted works for PFF…. He didn’t just make up PFFs. You can look up on PFF how they quantify their stats but it’s much more involved than Pro Football Reference’s.
I’m not sure why you keep harping on completion percentage.
Quote:
Accurate Passes: Perfect, Frame, Away from Coverage
Using these three categories puts the 2017 NFL average for accuracy at 56.8 percent and average for “perfect” passes at 16.0 percent.
Catchable Inaccurate passes: High, Low, Front, Back
These passes are all somewhat on the receiver’s frame and in a “catchable” range, but they’re “inaccurate” in at least one of four directions.
Uncatchable Inaccurate passes: Overthrow, Underthrow, In Front, Behind
The uncatchable bucket includes a number of other categories, including plays made by the defender, but the basic concept is the quarterback is throwing a pass that is uncatchable either due to accuracy or a lack of velocity.
I don't know why I feel compelled to keep responding to you ajr.
Amtoft I told you you will never get the last word in with this guy. I think he is Daniel Jones jilted lover from Duke or something... LOL
ajr you remind of rookie engineers I work with that look at everything as a mathematical equation without having any real world experience to adjust their calcs for real life.
"We need 300kW for that row!"
Me: OK 400A at 415V gets you 287kW. Your typical utilization per row is less than 200kW.
"That's not enough we need 300kW per row!"
Me: OK we will have to run 600A end feeds at 415V. Those are twice the price, and we have to bolster up the Gordon grid points where they hang. You are costing your company roughly $500k in additional costs to give you another 13kW per row, when you only need 200kW."
"Yes but we need 300kW per row!!"
There are other factors to look at other than math, especially from a tweet with no context.
It’s weird that you keep feeling compelled to respond to me
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
This isn't as complicated as you're making it.
The 52% is the rate of throws that are properly "on-target" from a clean pocket. They are not related to completion. Receivers can catch bad balls and drop good balls. Those are different stats. The point of that statistic is that DJ's accuracy - in terms of his throw, agnostic of whether the ball is caught - isn't markedly better even with a clean pocket.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
What you're referencing there is his completion percentage on on-target throws.
The PFF stat is the percentage of his throws that were on-target.
You have to carve it out on both sides of the throw/catch.
He can get a free one next year if he ponies up for a PSL and season tickets.
Rooney Rule!
Well we know that Allen was higher on his board than Rosen as they passed on Rosen.
Quote:
Was Josh Allen higher on his draft board than Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen?
Well we know that Allen was higher on his board than Rosen as they passed on Rosen.
Good point, I had forgotten the order.
Quote:
In comment 15575372 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
Was Josh Allen higher on his draft board than Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen?
Well we know that Allen was higher on his board than Rosen as they passed on Rosen.
Good point, I had forgotten the order.
i also doubt he is gonna say we had darnold higher as he appears to be a bust.
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
Not true. Brandon Beane has spoken in detail about the pre-draft and draft process and Allen was their target.
Bills did not make their second trade up until Mayfield and Darnold had been taken by the two teams the Bills could not jump.
Allen was the number two Vegas betting favorite to go number one overall through most of the draft process, and many analysts had him as the number one prospect (Chris Simms for one).
fact is their board from probably like most and had allen aroujnd where they got him. nobody had allen #1. he was a much more flawed prospect than others.
I wouldn't say that. Leading up to the draft it was reported that the Browns were torn between Allen and Mayfield for 1st overall.
And the M.O.T.s are heard from! ;-)
Giants YouTube - ( New Window )
Thanks! Giants.com still not working well for me.
Yup.
Chris Mara told him during his interview that he wanted to draft Josh Allen in 2018 too, but Getts squashed the idea...
In comment 15575689 Anando said:
LIVE: GM Joe Schoen Press Conference - 11:45 AM ET - ( New Window )
Let's get to the Q&AS.
Let's get to the Q&AS.
I personally like him thanking his in-laws. lol
Compete today, win tomorrow. Build around Jones.
SMH...
I thought it was fine....
He isnt going to committ or overcommitt to anything.
He can't come out and say we have a backup QB for a starter...
I said this. He is prob the dtart in 22. Beyond that schoen wont comment.
May I ask you exactly what you expect this guy to say in an introductory presser before they even have a coaching staff?
Doesn't sound like anyone is going anywhere. Seemed like he was open to retaining entire scouting team
If he wasn't, I would expect him to say, "We are evaluating everything moving forward."
(Incidentally, that's what Judge did).
Quote:
sound like Daniel Jones is going anywhere.
Doesn't sound like anyone is going anywhere. Seemed like he was open to retaining entire scouting team
Executing John's marching orders
Quote:
sound like Daniel Jones is going anywhere.
Doesn't sound like anyone is going anywhere. Seemed like he was open to retaining entire scouting team
He has to before this draft. I expect changes after the draft.
He would be a fool to hint at anything else. Remember how Arizona would continuously talk up Josh Rosen up until they draft Kyler.
Still a lot of evaluations to do, I doubt he would make any specific announcements of FO changes or players.
It won't be surprise if DJ is the starter this year. Beyond that is up in the air, I think.
Quote:
sound like Daniel Jones is going anywhere.
May I ask you exactly what you expect this guy to say in an introductory presser before they even have a coaching staff?
Was just going to say the same thing, it was a canned answer and if he has met with Jones the last two days, he is going to go ahead and bash him the presser? Doesn't make sense.
So does that make him the yes-man that Mara is looking for?
Abrams is staying.
If he wasn't, I would expect him to say, "We are evaluating everything moving forward."
(Incidentally, that's what Judge did).
Quote:
He sounded committed to Jones.
If he wasn't, I would expect him to say, "We are evaluating everything moving forward."
(Incidentally, that's what Judge did).
Notice he lauded his effort and attitude not his ability. That is noticeable
Yep. That's why I said it didn't exactly sound like a glowing endorsement.
Leonard asking this right now
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Abrams does contracts.
Not sure why people are shocked. I dont think this is a bad thing.
Quote:
If he's picking the next HC or if it will be a group effort?
Leonard asking this right now
Group effort...
That was my question.
Abrams is staying.
Makes sense. Keep the guy around that FUBAR'd it.
Quote:
He sounded committed to Jones.
If he wasn't, I would expect him to say, "We are evaluating everything moving forward."
(Incidentally, that's what Judge did).
Notice he lauded his effort and attitude not his ability. That is noticeable
Sure he did. He said Jones has a strong arm, can run.
The real test of 'building around Jones' is and always has been the option decision.
Abrams is staying.
Keep one of the chief architects of the cap problems...genius
Quote:
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
Quote:
If he's picking the next HC or if it will be a group effort?
That was my question.
He said it's a group effort. They will all work together
I'm starting to believe we actually have 11 picks.
I hope I'm wrong
Collab effort.
Jones being the starter in 2022 is hardly surprising. His injury history means he likely has little trade value and we have limited cap space to sign a veteran. After 2023, nothing is guaranteed. Same for Barkley.
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Quote:
wth?
I'm starting to believe we actually have 11 picks.
Something isn't right here.
Quote:
In comment 15575739 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
The common assumption in the local media then was that Jones was still up and coming. It's an entirely different situation now.
Quote:
In comment 15575739 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You don't have to bash him. Like I said above, simply say we are evaluating everyone moving forward.
And if he said that, the media would spin it the other way in that the Giants are looking for a new QB and this place would be going wild that he just telegraphed what he might do in the draft/free agency. The question was specifically asked of Jones.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
Big difference between a HC's introductory presser and a new GM's. Especially when a coaching staff isn't even in place yet.
* Will compete and rebuild at same time
* Collaboration
* Not picking his own Head Coach
we are in trouble...
* Will compete and rebuild at same time - Versus losing out of the gate
* Collaboration - standard buzz word
* Not picking his own Head Coach - Mara's always have final say
we are in trouble...
Quote:
He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
* Will compete and rebuild at same time
* Collaboration
* Not picking his own Head Coach
we are in trouble...
Oh my god stop it. Its an introductory press conference. Bbi was suckn judge off after his presser. Who gives a fuck.
Collaboration happens in every org.
Competing is always the focus....you dont jus admit its a throw away year even if it is behind scenes.
He didnt committ to jones he said what we all know and made the pt about forming offense around his talents.
He isnt going to play his hand in any way...its an intro presser
My guess is that he will have final authority on player decisions. The Giants went outside the organization for a new GM for the first time in decades. That wouldn't have happened unless they were willing to give the new GM that authority. And none of the better GM candidates like Schoen would have taken the job unless that was a given.
Joe Judge said that. The media didn't do what you said.
That was Judge's MO but even if it wasn't, at the time Jones was 100% their guy for the next 1-2 years anyways so they didn't have to be concerned with his trade value. Of course, it's also possible that he'll get this year and they'll punt on the draft crop in the first round while possibly bringing in a vet or mid round QB for competition.
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
He's said 11 a couple of times.
I agree. Bbi has become a fuckn joke
Sounds like some big axes are going to fall on some players.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
Personally, the fact he mentions analytics and "data innovation" repeatedly already warms my heart.
This is clearly a science based computah guy
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In comment 15575771 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
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In comment 15575783 GiantsRage2007 said:
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In comment 15575771 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
Personally, the fact he mentions analytics and "data innovation" repeatedly already warms my heart.
This is clearly a science based computah guy
Agreed.
* Will compete and rebuild at same time
* Collaboration
* Not picking his own Head Coach
we are in trouble...
Who would even be worth 2 picks...
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
As of today, yes he's their QB.
Plenty of people across sports get a vote of confidence right before they're no longer with the team. Honestly, I'd be more concerned if he didn't pump up Jones
That either eliminates Flores, or is sending a message to Flores if he wants to be coach.
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In comment 15575795 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575783 GiantsRage2007 said:
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In comment 15575771 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
HAHAHA. Yup.
Of course, the plan is to have the team compete now. That's what we ALL want. He isn't going to come out and say, "yeah, 2022 is a throwaway year."
Let's see what happens over the coming weeks. He has been in the job five freaking days.
Who would even be worth 2 picks...
They have 11 picks....
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In comment 15575795 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575783 GiantsRage2007 said:
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In comment 15575771 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
LOL now that would have been a presser! hahaha.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
I always thought that was going to be the case. There's a QB draft class and free agency class to evaluate, and the option decision to make on Jones. Outside of injury news the only noteworthy news pre-draft on Jones is the option decision. Everything else at this point is chaff.
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In comment 15575804 GiantsRage2007 said:
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In comment 15575795 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575783 GiantsRage2007 said:
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In comment 15575771 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
Based on what? What the fuck is he gonna say?
Bbi is really goin off the fuckn rails. Cannot wait to win some games
Based on his answers, what the fuck you think I'm basing it on?
No rebuild, compete now, win later.
HC choice is collaborative.
Some of the stuff that said he would be Mara's yes man...
We won't win any games if Mara is the puppetmaster
Teams never admit to tesring it all down....they cant sell tickets with that shit being said to fans....they retool.
There is gonna be alot of turnover
They need a ton of turnover. That we agree on.
There will be. Its an INTRO presser. He is gonna be like we fuckn suck, we are cutting everyone. Jones fuckn sucks, ol sucks, they all gone and fans sorry but we are gonna blow in 22
LOL now that would have been a presser! hahaha.
Wow we are doomed
-terps, googs, bw
And will be the first fired once he starts making changes...lol
I hope I'm wrong
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
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fact that Schoen doesn't know how many draft picks we have is not his fault. Some clown in the organization gave him bad info.
And will be the first fired once he starts making changes...lol
Hahahah definitely
I just hope he has some of islander's "big dick energy". LOL
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fact that Schoen doesn't know how many draft picks we have is not his fault. Some clown in the organization gave him bad info.
And will be the first fired once he starts making changes...lol
hopefully it is Chris Petit
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Giants interviewed 9 people
same with the roster...he can't say its a complete tear down and devalue whatever assets we have.
Don't need to completely show his hand. But he did mention the bills took 3 years to get to the playoffs so he said it will be a process.
He also said there will be tough roster decisions and need to get the cap right.
Like him.
He was nervous. (clearly sweating)
Sounds like Daniel Jones is going nowhere unless they are throwing up smoke (which I doubt).
I think he made it clear he is evaluating everyone in the scouting department, but we know they can't really change anything until after the draft.
If you believe him, he does not have THE say in hiring the next coach (for better or worse).
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
He said he said he was going to get a HC and then go through the tape looking at Daniel Jones. He said more but what did you expect him to say... I hate Daniel Jones he is gone!
Except that’s not what people said.
Don't know if anyone remembers this, but at Gettleman's intro presser someone asked him if had seen any of Eli's games that year and Gettleman said something like, "I saw the 2nd game against Philly" (one of the few where Eli played well that season).
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
Then he must be #1 on your hit list because he basically said that for every question :P
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You could be right.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
He said he said he was going to get a HC and then go through the tape looking at Daniel Jones. He said more but what did you expect him to say... I hate Daniel Jones he is gone!
Yea. Bbi wanted him to out everyone and devalue every asset we have.
He should have come out and jus been like jones is hot trash. He wont be here lkng rest easy fans.
That always resonated with me.
So I take nerves as a good thing.
Its all first presser BS. Can't just throw gas on the pile and then light it on fire
Overall, I think he is trying to present a "collaborative" effort but he gave enough to me at least that he expects and will demand a certain way of doing things.
I would not expect him to be nothing but positive on Jones for now.
The HC hire certainly can give the impression that ownership is involved but not sure what people want. "Ownership has absolutely no say in who I am hiring!"
This is the only measure of what he thinks of Daniel Jones. No words about it mean much.
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In comment 15575833 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
He’s not the one who sounds like he’s wound too tight…
Well he is 100% right.
Exactly. I consider this a "bridge" year.
That always resonated with me.
So I take nerves as a good thing.
It's natural. He's never had a moment in his life where he had a group of reporters in front of him like that. He's also pretty young.
And he's going to discuss it with Kevin Abrams. I mean that's like General Grant asking General Burnside for military advice.
That was for you, Eric
He was answering a question about talent level and he referenced the NO game because it was, as he said, the one where the team had most of its intended starters on the field.
That always resonated with me.
So I take nerves as a good thing.
I'll take a GM who's a little nervous and humble versus arogant and stupid. And in the end, pressers are such a small part of a GM's job. If he excells at the important stuff, then I'm good.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
Why would we expect different this year? There isn’t squat this year at qb and we have a lot of crap to fix first.
Fix the line first play Jones this year if it clicks for him great if not get the qb next year. We will suck this year no matter what so a high pick shouldn’t be an issue
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In comment 15575839 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15575833 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 15575768 GiantsRage2007 said:
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He really does sound like a "yes" man for Mara
I hope I'm wrong
That stuck out to me too. This is not a guy that given carte blanche to overhaul the operations.
You know this based on a 10 minute intro presser? Okay, lets all drink koolaid and end misery. Its an INTRO presser. Its a simple hey guys im joe. Im gonna turn this around see you in free agency
Relax, champ. It's an impression based on a press conference.
Some of you are wound so fucking tight your skin is going to burst.
He’s not the one who sounds like he’s wound too tight…
"He doesn't sound like a guy given carte blanche to overhaul the operation" sounds like the opinion of someone wound too tight?
Great observation. Thanks.
He also knows that there will be a lot of pain involved in getting the salary cap straightened out.
Bottom line for me is that as a GM he has experience evaluating players. That’s big for me.
Let’s give the guy time to get his processes in place and a HC and staff he can work with.
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Then I will panic if need be.
This is the only measure of what he thinks of Daniel Jones. No words about it mean much.
I don’t know for sure of course, but my guess he has him play on his 8 mill and if he performs/progresses well, they’ll talk contract
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I read hete no one would want this job...
Except that’s not what people said.
I think you posted that Dodds and other people didn't want the job...
Bottom line is it is a very desirable opportunity and if Schoen succeeds in rebuilding this shit show he will be a legend much like George Young...
When asked about Jones. We are going to get a HC and go through the whole roster. See what Jones does best and put him in a position to win. He has to say that. What if Jones is his QB this year because they couldn't get a better one through FA, Trade, or the draft. Behind closed doors though he could absolutely decide to move on from Jones. Me I hope he doesn't. I think when Jones has time he is very good.
When asked if he has full control of hiring a HC or owners involved. Again what did you think he was going to say. I am the man the owners don't get a say. No of course not. He is going to be respectful and say we will sit down together and if we don't agree we will look at it more. That doesn't mean he doesn't have full control.
Anyways just my opinion that those answer don't really tell us one way or the other about Jones or the owners involvement. Time will tell us that not his respectful answers.
My mistake... I didn't start from the beginning of this thread and missed it.
Joe Schoen: Hey Kevin. Good to see you. Thanks for meeting with me. First question: how the fuck did you and Gettleman fuck up the cap so badly?
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@Patricia_Traina
John Mara said the hope is to get the new head coach set up by the middle of next week at the latest. Adds he feels good about the candidate pool they have.
This!!!
^This. What do people expect him to say?
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara said they’re going to discuss Brian Flores’ exit from Miami amid reports of a power struggle.
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In comment 15575829 JCin332 said:
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I read hete no one would want this job...
Except that’s not what people said.
I think you posted that Dodds and other people didn't want the job...
Bottom line is it is a very desirable opportunity and if Schoen succeeds in rebuilding this shit show he will be a legend much like George Young...
Yea, Dodds didn’t want the job. There were also options that weren’t taking the job if they had to keep Judge.
Nobody said nobody wanted the job, they said people weren’t going to take the job if things didn’t change and they didn’t get full control.
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
@Dan_Salomone
John Mara admits they’ve done everything to screw it up for Daniel Jones with all the changes in the past. They are certainly not giving up on him.
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara also said they’re not trading for Deshaun Watson. Cites the cap among reasons why.
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@RVacchianoSNY
Giants co-owner John Mara: “We are not trading for Deshaun Watson. There are so many reasons why we wouldn’t do it.”
He mentions both the fact the Giants can’t afford it, and the sexual assault allegations hanging over him.
He's not going to give the other teams any competitive intelligence. He's certainly not going to tell this roster his plans, or that its not important to win right now. He may be honest about his chances to win, but funny things happen on the football field.
He acknowledge the roster and cap are issues. He is not going to say how he plans to fix those things, only that his process is designed to do it. I am encouraged by what I heard, since his process seems designed to compete in today's NFL, but what do I know.
We'll all know for sure if he's the right guy in 2 or 3 years or so. That's not to say we can't question individual moves, but he's going to have a long leash.
We're just going to have to accept it.
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@RVacchianoSNY
Giants co-owner John Mara: “We are not trading for Deshaun Watson. There are so many reasons why we wouldn’t do it.”
He mentions both the fact the Giants can’t afford it, and the sexual assault allegations hanging over him.
Well, can't get anymore blunt than that
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
I mean... He isn't wrong
Ha!
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones. Takes responsibility for that and adds he thinks Daniel can be their guy.
Mara still a fool , but this doesn’t mean much.
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“That’s a good question”.
Then he must be #1 on your hit list because he basically said that for every question :P
It has becomes every PR professional's first tip to their clients, because someone decided it makes the person asking the question feel good, and therefore creates a positive feeling toward the person being asked the questions. It's stupid.
We're just going to have to accept it.
Given the QB options in this draft, probably a wise move.
We're just going to have to accept it.
For the time being.
That needs to be written in the sky for all to understand.
hahaha
If he had balls, yes....
I can only hope he is someone who speaks softly but carries a big stick
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of the New York Football Giants just said they are sticking with Daniel Jones.
We're just going to have to accept it.
Given the QB options in this draft, probably a wise move.
I don’t mind that IF we have a backup that can legitimately provide competition. You can’t hand Jones the job.
Yup. I will be patient, but I don't have faith in Mara. He really tempered enthusiasm at the end today.
He continues to insist on things (Jones comments add fuel to the fire).
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many of which will and won't become reality, just watch future actions, eg, Jones' option, cuts, UFA approach, etc.
Yup. I will be patient, but I don't have faith in Mara. He really tempered enthusiasm at the end today.
He continues to insist on things (Jones comments add fuel to the fire).
I've only read the comments posted here, they're not what I wanted to hear either (except for no Watson trade).
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In comment 15575918 Eric from BBI said:
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of the New York Football Giants just said they are sticking with Daniel Jones.
We're just going to have to accept it.
Given the QB options in this draft, probably a wise move.
I don’t mind that IF we have a backup that can legitimately provide competition. You can’t hand Jones the job.
No argument there. They need to identify a competent back-up that can compete with Jones
Yes- and why we should be patient but also have every right to continue to be skeptical until success and winning returns in a sustainable and meaningful way.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Let Daniel Jones be the QB on the 4th year of his rookie contract. I dont see where else we're going to turn.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
11 picks- his job is to nail those, and fix the cap to start. hire the right coach.
as for Jones, there is no QB on the roster worth a lick outside of him--- he will get a shot this year- who the fk cares- what are they supposed to do at QB? or say about QB?
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
11 picks- his job is to nail those, and fix the cap to start. hire the right coach.
as for Jones, there is no QB on the roster worth a lick outside of him--- he will get a shot this year- who the fk cares- what are they supposed to do at QB? or say about QB?
1000% agree with all of this. Lot's of overanalyzing and jumping to conclusions.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
Ha ha, you hear the negative you want to hear.
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About what they think of Jones.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
$19M or $23M for Jones is a horrible use of money.
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About what they think of Jones.
There’s zero percent chance Joe Schoen watched Josh Allen for four years and thinks Daniel Jones can be a franchise QB. He’s saying what he needs to say until he finds his next QB.
Actually it won't... It wouldn't cost them that much more to just FT or even just TT him. I can't remember what it was but like a 5th year option is 19 mil and a FT is like 23 or something.
If they were 100% in on Jones they’d pick up the option, being that this team is likely to be bad again next year.
This year is going to be a transition year. He's going to be evaluating everything and everyone. Some people will stay ("the right people..."), some will shift positions (... "in the right seats"), some will go. The Maras fetishize stability; hopefully he can convince them that stability for stability's sake isn't a good thing. Hopefully he'll have a little more churn and will always be looking to upgrade, or to move people over, or to promote them, if it's best for the organization.
I don't believe in the business school idea of churning your least-productive 20% of employees, but I think there's a happy medium between the Ronnie Barnes/Tom Quinn model, where guys seem to stick around forever, and the change-your-HC-every-two-years plan the Giants have stumbled into.
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@RVacchianoSNY
"If you want to see Daniel Jones put his best foot forward, he's got to be on his feet. If you want to see what Saquon can do, it would be nice if we could block guys."
— From my one on one with new Giants GM Joe Schoen 👇
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@RVacchianoSNY
GM Joe Schoen on trading for Deahaun Watson: “Knowing where we are salary-cap-wise and the pending legal issues, I don’t know how we could go down that road.”
@Dan_Salomone
Joe Schoen said they need to look wherever they can to help the offensive line. “Our job is to find solutions.”
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In comment 15575845 Big Al said:
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“That’s a good question”.
Then he must be #1 on your hit list because he basically said that for every question :P
It has becomes every PR professional's first tip to their clients, because someone decided it makes the person asking the question feel good, and therefore creates a positive feeling toward the person being asked the questions. It's stupid.
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@RVacchianoSNY
Joe Schoen is "excited" about Saquon Barkley:
"When he came out, he was a rare talent"
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You could be right.
But my big take-away from this presser right now is Daniel Jones is their QB.
Ha ha, you hear the negative you want to hear.
The new GM and owner just stood up for Jones.
You're going to have to deal with this.
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@PLeonardNYDN
Replying to @PLeonardNYDN
John Mara on Daniel Jones: “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.”
The Giants are preparing for Jones as their 2022 QB.
Joe Schoen says hasn’t made a decision yet on picking up 5th year option
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@RVacchianoSNY
Giants GM Joe Schoen said they could have a head coach in place by Saturday morning if they decide “We’ve got our guy” from the first group of interviews.
But he added “there are a couple more names we’ve discussed” if they decide to expand the search.
That said, I struggle to see where there is a lot going for him to work with (as Mara seems to promise) to be clear evidence he's a franchise guy.
The receiving weapons are all questionable right now (Golladay/Toney) and OL will likely take multiple offseasons to improve steadily and consistently. They also need TEs and depth at RB.
Jones will have his work cut out for him and I don't think they're going to keep giving any more excuses to be fair.
If Jones is mediocre and they finish even 6-11 or 7-10, they're within striking distance of QBs in draft next year.
cite.
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* Likes Daniel Jones
* Will compete and rebuild at same time
* Collaboration
* Not picking his own Head Coach
we are in trouble...
Oh my god stop it. Its an introductory press conference. Bbi was suckn judge off after his presser. Who gives a fuck.
Collaboration happens in every org.
Competing is always the focus....you dont jus admit its a throw away year even if it is behind scenes.
He didnt committ to jones he said what we all know and made the pt about forming offense around his talents.
He isnt going to play his hand in any way...its an intro presser
Relax, just having fun with some of you all.
The post was just tongue-in-cheek to some of the topics that folks will be running their agendas off of over the next few days/weeks.
Thought Schoen did fine...a bit nervous but left himself open enough on all topics to not be committed. I hope.
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I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
In reply to your continued ability to not having reading comprehension I didn't say that was the only difference between them. I said Jones doesn't get help from his WRs. Burrows can just throw it up and Chase and Higgins come down with it and make plays. Do you not agree with that? Do you think the Giants receivers make plays for Jones? routinely make contested catches, break tackles and take it to the house, not drop easy catches, etc. This wasn't a knock on Burrow at all. Burrow knows if Chase is one on one there is a good chance he is going to go up and get the ball. Jones doesn't have anyone like that. I said Jones would be good on Cincy, but not as good as Burrow.
So yes I know what I am talking about you just can't read. Please don't take that the wrong way.
Ja'Marr Chase making more plays and contested catches in one game than Giants all year - ( New Window )
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
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Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones.
That is a nice shot at the great architect Dave Gettleman...
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In comment 15575907 Eric from BBI said:
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Patricia Traina
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@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones.
That is a nice shot at the great architect Dave Gettleman...
Probably even more of a shot at himself.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
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@art_stapleton
Among those current Giants players in attendance for Joe Schoen's introduction: Daniel Jones, Sterling Shepard and Logan Ryan.
Also in attendance: Patrick Graham, who will interview for the HC job later today.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
The issue is Schoen has to make relatively quick evaluations on whether Barkley and Jones can be foundational in his rebuild in one season. Next offseason will be telling.
Commitment (at high cost) to keeping Barkley and Jones in 2023 and not improving, will put Schoen on a quick hot seat.
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In comment 15575741 Jim in Tampa said:
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If he's picking the next HC or if it will be a group effort?
Leonard asking this right now
Group effort...
Lot more posters should be admiring and thanking Leonard.
He at least seems to get into some of the more sensitive items that many on this site lose their minds over...
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@art_stapleton
Among those current Giants players in attendance for Joe Schoen's introduction: Daniel Jones, Sterling Shepard and Logan Ryan.
Also in attendance: Patrick Graham, who will interview for the HC job later today.
Sterling Shepard better talk to Schoen about taking a pay cut if he wants to be with this team in 2 months
Let's see what happens with the front office and scouts after the draft, and let's see what they do with Jones.
If they pick up Jones's option and/or extend him, that is a disaster. I can't imagine that happens though.
Yeah I noted that one too...
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Careful. When the Jones/Barkley sucks squad see this, they will follow you and force their opinions on that suckitude over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and ov...
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@DDuggan21
Big takeaway: Ownership and Joe Schoen are believers in Daniel Jones. Schoen said they plan to build the offense around Jones. Mara said, “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.”
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@DDuggan21
Big takeaway: Ownership and Joe Schoen are believers in Daniel Jones. Schoen said they plan to build the offense around Jones. Mara said, “We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up.”
Ruh roh
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Important to note that Schoen didn’t comment when asked if he planned to pick up Jones’ fifth-year option. Actions will speak louder than words there.
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@TomRock_Newsday
How does Joe Schoen plan to fix the offensive line? "You have to get better players. I mean, that's the best way to fix it... We have to look wherever we can." He notes the limits in FA based on cap. "We can all talk about what the problems are, our job is to find solutions."
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Important to note that Schoen didn’t comment when asked if he planned to pick up Jones’ fifth-year option. Actions will speak louder than words there.
This is the key.
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In comment 15575923 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15575907 Eric from BBI said:
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Patricia Traina
✔
@Patricia_Traina
Mara acknowledged that they’ve done everything possible to screw up Daniel Jones.
That is a nice shot at the great architect Dave Gettleman...
Probably even more of a shot at himself.
He probably has thought about taking a bullet over the last few years...
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@TomRock_Newsday
How does Joe Schoen plan to fix the offensive line? "You have to get better players. I mean, that's the best way to fix it... We have to look wherever we can." He notes the limits in FA based on cap. "We can all talk about what the problems are, our job is to find solutions."
Bye bye Will and Nate.
We're just going to have to accept it.
Meh, Daboll is a good candidate and already has a working relationship with Graham. And Graham did a lot with basically bottom barrel pass rush this season. Get him more and better pass rushers.
Anyway no one knows what the staff will look like yet. I really like Flores, he is the guy I want but I won't be sad if it's Daboll. And I certainly don't hate Graham. Let it play out. And then complain... lol
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Well Amtoft. I warned Ye.
lol
Liked how he said he still talks with Parcells. I hope Parcells told him, "I hope you learned that you have to be able to run between the tackles come playoff time to keep advancing". Also nice that both Fox and Parcells spoke very highly of the Giants as a organization.
Pretty incredible day for him. Fan at 4 years old and here you are tasked with returning a franchise to glory you grew up admiring.
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Well Amtoft. I warned Ye.
lol
Sorry stats bother you.
Is this true though? San Frans best running game is sweeps to the outside with Deebo. Bengals have ran the ball well either game. The Rams running game is mostly outside and secondary to their passing game. And the Chiefs are the Chiefs.
Would that make everyone happy?
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In comment 15575965 Amtoft said:
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I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
You know what, you're right. I didn't read your full comment, and apologize for how I replied.
I still disagree with your general outlook on Jones, but shouldn't have answered in that way.
Would that make everyone happy?
No. That's sounds stupid.
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you guys would be happy from that presser, would he of Schoen was dressed like John Belushi at the end of “Animal House”, climbed up on top of the Quest Diagnostic ctr, brandishing his sword saying “no prisoners, John Mara, he’s a dead man, Chris Mara- dead , Tisch - dead, Jones -« .
Would that make everyone happy?
No. That's sounds stupid.
The idiocy on this site has gotten completely out of hand.
but what about the fifth year?
If Schoen picks up the 5th year option i'm out on Schoen.
Schoen having his guy is not a problem for me. It proves it is his pick and not Mara, and that he has a vision and a plan. I personally would prefer a re-tread, because i think the org and fan base is fragile and impatient, but if that's his guy, that's his guy.
I'm sure we will have plenty of time for the "mara forced Graham" narrative if it happens. But, if Daboll is the coach, he is a Belichick guy, and he overlapped with PG for several years in NE. Infact I believe BD was TE coach and PG was LB coach. So they interacted quite a bit.
Also, If we can get Fangio...HELL YES. Is Wink a possibility? Is that an upgrade or a philosophical match? If not the PG is in the same level as the rest. A demonstrated good DC, with room to improve.
And out of desperation, they have put their faith in the next man up. We saw this with Judge. Everyone wanted to believe he would be the rational guy in the room that would fix the problem. We even saw many who argued that it was Judge who was really running things.
Now Schoen is up. The faith is now on this man. Some people have placed unquestioned faith in him despite the fact that he hasn't earned it yet.
But when something gets said or hinted at the disrupts from the narrative, people are lashing out at each other.
For example, a fan may have unquestioned faith in Schoen and that Mara is no longer interfering. That same fan may be convinced that Daniel Jones sucks. So when the owner and new GM come out and defend Jones, they can't accept that or make excuses for it.
Have they committed 100 percent to Jones? Who knows. As posted, much depends on whether they accept the 5th-year option. But the Giants have never been good at smoke and pretty much wear their hearts on the sleeves. What I heard today is that Daniel Jones is getting another season.
I would argue that even bigger than the Schoen hire is going to be the head coach. Joe Judge overwhelmingly won his introduction day and look where that got us. We can't keep hiring bad coaches, especially if you believe (I do) that the Head Coach is the true power player in the NFL.
I do think I may have heard a slip from Schoen that perhaps they have their coach (Daboll) in place already and they're pretty certain of that. I want them to take their time. There's no reason we have to name someone by Friday. I would liked to have seen them talk to Ryans. Maybe they should talk to Pederson?
We can't screw up the head coach again.
Let's see what happens with the front office and scouts after the draft, and let's see what they do with Jones.
If they pick up Jones's option and/or extend him, that is a disaster. I can't imagine that happens though.
Exactly. Folks getting worked up over intro presser comments need to cut back on the caffeine.
I don't understand your point here.
People are responding to comments made by the new GM. Depending on the fan's point of view, some of the comments are good, some concerning.
You seem to be upset that anyone is raising questions.
It seems odd to be unquestioned faith in the worst run organization in the NFL.
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
And even if they were to draft a guy like Malik Willis, he is going to sit for his first year or a significant part of his first year.
So, I don't read this as an endorsement of Jones at all. He refused to commit to picking up the fifth year option. This is really DJ's "last chance"
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
A lot of fans are convinced that Jones won't be on the roster next year.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
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Sorry stats bother you.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
I think that makes for an extremely simple and non controversial decision to move on.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
I wonder what his views on moving up or down in the draft are? No one asked that. What has he done in the past?
Anyway....hope springs eternal!
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In comment 15576079 ajr2456 said:
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Sorry stats bother you.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
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There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There are some people that can watch a plane fly into a mountain at 500 MPH and still convince themselves everyone onboard is ok.
I've been called negative and miserable on here for years - I've never understood it considering I was just saying the sky is blue.
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There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are repeated.
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are NOT repeated.
This. But I fixed the last sentence.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
At that's the negativity I'm talking about.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
Quote:
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are NOT repeated.
This. But I fixed the last sentence.
Thanks Johnny! LOL......you get the gist!
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In comment 15576160 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15576079 ajr2456 said:
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Sorry stats bother you.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
Those stats don’t anything to do with scheme, they’re about accuracy. Not whether the throw was caught or not. But whether it was within a like three foot radius of the intended target.
You replied to a comment that wasn’t addressing you with “lol, see” and are telling someone else they don’t have to argue. Weird stuff.
Why would a sane person put unquestioned faith in the organization moving forward.
I think most of us expect a losing season in 2023. That's OK if they are getting better.
2023 is the tell-tale year.
If they put chips in on Jones and Barkley going forward in 2023 (no guarantee they do) and it doesn't work out, it'll be bad for everyone (including Schoen).
Why would a sane person put unquestioned faith in the organization moving forward.
I think most of us expect a losing season in 2023. That's OK if they are getting better.
Who said unquestioned?
I agree, 2023 probably will be under .500. We want progress for sure.
But I'm also of the belief it doesn't take a lot to turn a NFL team around.
Get the right people, it happens. I hope Schoen is the right guy.
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He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
At that's the negativity I'm talking about.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
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I haven't read any comments on BBI by anyone that thinks Jones isn't going to be here next season. No one is predicting this (injury aside).
He will be on the roster because he's affordable. It doesn't matter what they say about Jones. If they pick up the option, they like him. If they don't, that's what they think about Jones.
A lot of fans are convinced that Jones won't be on the roster next year.
I don't read that.
A lot of fans have expressed they don't want Jones on the roster but that isn't making the leap he won't...
I'd be shocked if he really thinks Jones is anywhere close to the answer. If he does, we're completely screwed for another 5 years. But Jones being a bad QB is really obvious.
instead we hear about how bad mara feels about not giving jones a chance and how he believes in him. then we hear schoen reiterate and how he wants to build around jones to give him a fair chance. true or not it makes schoen look like a puppet, where mara lays out the plan and it's schoen's job to make that philosphy work.
and this coming on the heels of mara forcing building around eli on the last GM.
pat hanlon should have been fired a long time ago. should have been fired again after his twitter incident with the scout. and should be fired again after today. today was not a good look for this team. it looks like more of the same to me especially coming on the heels of Peppers posts.
today did not leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy inside. it made me feel like there are a lot more dark days ahead.
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In comment 15576161 Go Terps said:
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He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
At that's the negativity I'm talking about.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?
Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.
But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.
There seem to be three groups of Giants fans:
(1) Those who believe the team can do no wrong.
(2) Those who believe the team can't do anything right.
(3) Those in the middle.
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In comment 15576163 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576160 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 15576079 ajr2456 said:
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Sorry stats bother you.
This is untrue. I just feel differently about the adverse impact of the OL (and ultimately the scheme and coaching) on the offense this past couple of years then you do. I'll be the broken record here again and say that my main motivation matches yours, I want the Giants to be good and competitive. I root for players on the team to be good. I understand that my feelings on those players is an opinion. If Jones 5th year option gets picked up, that will say everything needs being said. Personally I like the guy, I think he is better than you and others do, but at the end of the day if he is cut or traded I will root for who replaces him.
The stats are from when he actually has time. What are the adverse impacts on of the line on those stats?
OMG dude. You saw the part about scheme and coaching yes? I think he was better in a scheme like Shurmur's and with a better OL and system he can hang. So WHAT! Let it go man. You don't have to always argue with someone who has a different opinion. And I won't cry if we move on from Jones. I'd just rather he ends up being the guy. If not, so what? Root for the next guy up.
Those stats don’t anything to do with scheme, they’re about accuracy. Not whether the throw was caught or not. But whether it was within a like three foot radius of the intended target.
You replied to a comment that wasn’t addressing you with “lol, see” and are telling someone else they don’t have to argue. Weird stuff.
Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.
L O L
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In comment 15576157 Go Terps said:
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There are posters here that would have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.
The last few years have helped to filter which posters are interesting and which are superfans.
It's weird.
Not only do the Giants have one of the worst W-L records over a span of a number of years, but they have become jokes. We're basically filling up the highlight reels for other teams. We get crushed by other bad teams. The last HC had two press conferences with 10+ minute answers to one question. The PR department is fighting with ex-scouts on Twitter. We ran a new QB sneak offense in the 2nd quarter of game still in doubt. Most importantly, the team has now fired two GMs and 4 HCs in the last few seasons.
But then some wonder why there is so much negativity?
Weird.
There's a ton of negativity that is warranted.
Then there's negativity regardless.
I'm looking forward and not harping on the past - while also hopeful past mistakes are repeated.
Yep.
Remember, we are a playoff team in 2022 until we're not...
Here's an LOL for ya. You are doing exactly what I told Amtoft you would be doing.
L O L
If stats that prove Jones isn’t good is seen as pushing a narrative in your eyes, that’s a you problem. Sorry some of us are grounded in reality, and not fantasies about what Jones could be if every single thing falls into place.
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In comment 15576197 BillKo said:
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In comment 15576161 Go Terps said:
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He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
At that's the negativity I'm talking about.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?
Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.
But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.
There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.
Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.
Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.
And he really doesn't want to piss on him esp if he's going to put him on the trading block.
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In comment 15576212 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15576197 BillKo said:
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In comment 15576161 Go Terps said:
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He shouldn't be, but he probably will be.
Fourth year of the scholarship.
At that's the negativity I'm talking about.
The post was fine until you throw in the "scholarship".
So the new GM is honoring it?
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully the Maras have no input on the matter.
So if he stays........are you going to put it on the Maras and parade with that?
Maybe Schoen has a reason for keeping DJ.
But to my point, the negativity will point to he's on "scholarship", unrelated to the the actual reason.
There's no logical reason Schoen would keep Jones beyond 2022. It doesn't make football sense, it doesn't make economic sense.
Schoen doesn't strike me a stupid guy. John Mara does. If Jones is here in 2023 I'll believe (and with good reason) it's due to John Mara's irrational nostalgic hope that Jones will be the next Eli.
Hopefully the smart guy makes the decision and John Mara doesn't.
Again, we are talking 2 0 2 2.
Nothing more.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Just to add my $.02 on this: There is 0 reason to pick up Jones' fifth-year option. If he plays great this season, you're extending him after the season anyway. And if he doesn't play great, you surely will wish you didn't have $21.4M guaranteed to him in 2023.
You should sticky this. I think it's pretty clear the Giants won't do this. But maybe I'm wrong.
Actions will speak. What HC is hired should provide some insight into how much influence ownership has. What is done with Jones and at his position will indicate how they really feel about him. What decisions are made in the FO after the draft will provide insight into how much is changing structurally and organizationally.
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@art_stapleton
I asked Joe Schoen if he was working under a timeline to have a head coach hired by the Senior Bowl, which he will attend.
Schoen made a point to say Giants could have HC by Saturday morning. Either way, he hinted that new Giants HC may focus on building staff + stay back in NJ.
The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
It will well over $30M for 2023.
Win with Eli now brings the sequel Win with Eli II, starring Daneil Jones.
The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
It will well over $30M for 2023.
Link for projected tags.
cbs - ( New Window )
But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.
But my guess (granted I’m 0-4 this year) is the Giants do exercise the 5th year option and the voice over is Jones is playing on a 2/30M deal, with a fresh start.
You think? I just don't see anyway they execute the 5th year option. There are just too many questions. But Who knows.
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@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.
So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.
I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.
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@art_stapleton
Actually, check that: I heard three with Brian Gaine being another.
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The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
It will well over $30M for 2023.
Link for projected tags. cbs - ( New Window )
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In comment 15575982 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15575965 Amtoft said:
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I like Jones... I guess I might be the only one left. I think what he has done with such a bad OL and so much injuries to his main weapons Shepard, Barkley, Golladay, Toney, etc not to mention how many drops and Ints off Engrams hands he has had. He has put us in position to win games and he doesn't get help from his receivers. You watch Joe Burrow and he just throws up into tight coverage and Chase and Higgins come down with it.
Don't take this the wrong way, or do, I guess.
If that's what you think is the only difference between Daniel Jones and Joe Burrow, you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.
I noticed you shortened my quote and left off where I said on Cincy he wouldn't be as good as Burrow, but alas you read what you want.
You know what, you're right. I didn't read your full comment, and apologize for how I replied.
I still disagree with your general outlook on Jones, but shouldn't have answered in that way.
Thank you... and now I feel like a dick for my reply. hahaha I can be like that sometimes and it wasn't necessary so I apologize also for my rude response.
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In comment 15576292 shyster said:
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The QB franchise tag is jumping from 25.1M in 2021 to 29.7M for 2022.
It will well over $30M for 2023.
Link for projected tags. cbs - ( New Window )
I have a boss that says:”Don’t admire the problem for too long”. Daniel might be a nice guy but can he get us a super bowl? Isn’t that the ultimate question? Or are we ok with an average QB? Or maybe he doesn’t think there is a solution and there other more important priorities. Time will show
We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.
And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.
Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?
He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - will discuss Jones' 5th yr option, but very high on his attitude/talent, saying the OL must be fixed to help out Jones and Barkley do their thing
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - excited about Barkley's skills, said he has rare talent.
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - may have a HC in place (collaborative decision with team owners) as soon as Saturday morning, but not automatic..if front office doesn't agree, there could be "a couple" other candidates added to the current list
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen on OL - got to fix it, get thru the draft or pro personnel dept finding guys and also via a coaching staff that develops linemen
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - still has much hope jones is the right QB -- says much has hindered with his progress: changing HCs and coordinators and a poor OL
@giantswfan
#Giants #Mara - would not call any HC candidate a favorite, and said Flores will have to discuss the reported issues that caused his firing in miami
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - said plan is to "compete today and still build for tomorrow"...says it is critical to draft, develop and retain you own players
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - admitted tight cap will cause some tough decisions and may begin discussing how to work it with Kevin Abrams by the end of the week
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Schoen - said he already had done much work on the first four rounds of draft prospects while in buffalo and will have to catch up on free agency
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - stressed continuity, especially involving things around the QB, as being an important part of winning
GiantsWFAN
@giantswfan
#Giants #Scheon - grew up in Indiana and was a big Bill Parcells fan...fave player was Mark Bavaro...so he was a huge Giants fan..learned a lot of Tuna about building a team and still talks with him often
We just spent the last four years hoping against hope these guys are act one way in front of the mic, but behind closed doors are sharp and surgical.
And we learned Shurmur, Judge, and Gettleman are who they told us they were.
Why should we believe Mara is anything other than what he's telling us?
He's an owner with a public, direct POV on personnel, and that's not great for the GM.
Agreed
The guy in the building who knows the most about the salary cap isn't that great with the salary cap. Let's not grade on a curve.
That needs to be written in the sky for all to understand.
I wouldn't worry about it. DJM says that the cap is basically fiction.
I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.
I for one, am looking forward to seeing what transpires over the next few months. I look upon 2022 as a year to get the feel of the job and the team, then in 2023 real change. If he can lay the groundwork with a good draft, bolster the OL, and defense, we'll be in good shape going forward.
The "fuss" is some people did not hear what they wanted to hear. What do I mean?
Those who wanted Schoen to pick the HC. Schoen said he would only be one voice to decide.
Those who wanted to part ways with Daniel Jones. Schoen (and Mara) basically said that Jones will be here in 2022. (He also seemed to be positive on Barkley - another lightning rod).
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
GM Joe Schoen Introductory Press Conference | New York Giants - ( New Window )
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@art_stapleton
Joe Schoen knows the importance of having a right-hand man as GM, having served as Brandon Beane's right hand in Buffalo.
So will Schoen have a right hand with NYG? He says TBD.
I heard two names in his presser that I'll keep an eye on for such a role: Ryan Cowden + Dan Morgan.
Cowden would make a ton of sense. And if Schoen was already fait accompli before the GM search really took shape, than everything else was air cover for a Cowden interview for AGM.
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
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In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
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In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
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In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket
. - ( New Window )
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In comment 15576585 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
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sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket . - ( New Window )
I am pretty sure I am not looking at the bad reference.... let us be clear here. If you are citing 52% on target from a clean pocket on target then you are saying his WRs, RB, and TEs are making up for the minus 12.4% of his over accuracy and that isn't even including that his throws from a clean pocket should be more on target creating an even higher percentage of accuracy unlike when he is under pressure. No way that stat is right as that would be that our WRs, RBs, and TEs were amazing making catches they shouldn't have. I can't believe that stat and you shouldn't either, but I do love the find a stat you like method you did.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
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The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
Illogical tweet? The person who posted works for PFF…. He didn’t just make up PFFs. You can look up on PFF how they quantify their stats but it’s much more involved than Pro Football Reference’s.
I’m not sure why you keep harping on completion percentage.
Using these three categories puts the 2017 NFL average for accuracy at 56.8 percent and average for “perfect” passes at 16.0 percent.
Catchable Inaccurate passes: High, Low, Front, Back
These passes are all somewhat on the receiver’s frame and in a “catchable” range, but they’re “inaccurate” in at least one of four directions.
Uncatchable Inaccurate passes: Overthrow, Underthrow, In Front, Behind
The uncatchable bucket includes a number of other categories, including plays made by the defender, but the basic concept is the quarterback is throwing a pass that is uncatchable either due to accuracy or a lack of velocity.
Are you going to keep telling me I’m wrong?
Accuracy - ( New Window )
Amtoft I told you you will never get the last word in with this guy. I think he is Daniel Jones jilted lover from Duke or something... LOL
ajr you remind of rookie engineers I work with that look at everything as a mathematical equation without having any real world experience to adjust their calcs for real life.
"We need 300kW for that row!"
Me: OK 400A at 415V gets you 287kW. Your typical utilization per row is less than 200kW.
"That's not enough we need 300kW per row!"
Me: OK we will have to run 600A end feeds at 415V. Those are twice the price, and we have to bolster up the Gordon grid points where they hang. You are costing your company roughly $500k in additional costs to give you another 13kW per row, when you only need 200kW."
"Yes but we need 300kW per row!!"
There are other factors to look at other than math, especially from a tweet with no context.
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The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
This isn't as complicated as you're making it.
The 52% is the rate of throws that are properly "on-target" from a clean pocket. They are not related to completion. Receivers can catch bad balls and drop good balls. Those are different stats. The point of that statistic is that DJ's accuracy - in terms of his throw, agnostic of whether the ball is caught - isn't markedly better even with a clean pocket.
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In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
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In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
What you're referencing there is his completion percentage on on-target throws.
The PFF stat is the percentage of his throws that were on-target.
You have to carve it out on both sides of the throw/catch.