sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket . - ( New Window )
I am pretty sure I am not looking at the bad reference.... let us be clear here. If you are citing 52% on target from a clean pocket on target then you are saying his WRs, RB, and TEs are making up for the minus 12.4% of his over accuracy and that isn't even including that his throws from a clean pocket should be more on target creating an even higher percentage of accuracy unlike when he is under pressure. No way that stat is right as that would be that our WRs, RBs, and TEs were amazing making catches they shouldn't have. I can't believe that stat and you shouldn't either, but I do love the find a stat you like method you did.
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
“ Obviously, there are some positions that are a little bit more devoid of talent than others.”….devoid is a pretty strong (and accurate for some positions) choice of words.
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
Illogical tweet? The person who posted works for PFF…. He didn’t just make up PFFs. You can look up on PFF how they quantify their stats but it’s much more involved than Pro Football Reference’s.
I’m not sure why you keep harping on completion percentage.
Quote:
Accurate Passes: Perfect, Frame, Away from Coverage
Using these three categories puts the 2017 NFL average for accuracy at 56.8 percent and average for “perfect” passes at 16.0 percent.
Catchable Inaccurate passes: High, Low, Front, Back
These passes are all somewhat on the receiver’s frame and in a “catchable” range, but they’re “inaccurate” in at least one of four directions.
Uncatchable Inaccurate passes: Overthrow, Underthrow, In Front, Behind
The uncatchable bucket includes a number of other categories, including plays made by the defender, but the basic concept is the quarterback is throwing a pass that is uncatchable either due to accuracy or a lack of velocity.
I don't know why I feel compelled to keep responding to you ajr.
Amtoft I told you you will never get the last word in with this guy. I think he is Daniel Jones jilted lover from Duke or something... LOL
ajr you remind of rookie engineers I work with that look at everything as a mathematical equation without having any real world experience to adjust their calcs for real life.
"We need 300kW for that row!"
Me: OK 400A at 415V gets you 287kW. Your typical utilization per row is less than 200kW.
"That's not enough we need 300kW per row!"
Me: OK we will have to run 600A end feeds at 415V. Those are twice the price, and we have to bolster up the Gordon grid points where they hang. You are costing your company roughly $500k in additional costs to give you another 13kW per row, when you only need 200kW."
"Yes but we need 300kW per row!!"
There are other factors to look at other than math, especially from a tweet with no context.
It’s weird that you keep feeling compelled to respond to me
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
This isn't as complicated as you're making it.
The 52% is the rate of throws that are properly "on-target" from a clean pocket. They are not related to completion. Receivers can catch bad balls and drop good balls. Those are different stats. The point of that statistic is that DJ's accuracy - in terms of his throw, agnostic of whether the ball is caught - isn't markedly better even with a clean pocket.
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
What you're referencing there is his completion percentage on on-target throws.
The PFF stat is the percentage of his throws that were on-target.
You have to carve it out on both sides of the throw/catch.
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In comment 15576585 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
It says On Target Throws. Not completion percentage
His on target throws for the year was 76.1%... think you have your numbers wrong. Maybe while under pressure his on target throws were only 52%.
You’re looking at Profootball reference, which isn’t a good reference.
PFF has him at 52 from a clean pocket . - ( New Window )
I am pretty sure I am not looking at the bad reference.... let us be clear here. If you are citing 52% on target from a clean pocket on target then you are saying his WRs, RB, and TEs are making up for the minus 12.4% of his over accuracy and that isn't even including that his throws from a clean pocket should be more on target creating an even higher percentage of accuracy unlike when he is under pressure. No way that stat is right as that would be that our WRs, RBs, and TEs were amazing making catches they shouldn't have. I can't believe that stat and you shouldn't either, but I do love the find a stat you like method you did.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
Quote:
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
Illogical tweet? The person who posted works for PFF…. He didn’t just make up PFFs. You can look up on PFF how they quantify their stats but it’s much more involved than Pro Football Reference’s.
I’m not sure why you keep harping on completion percentage.
Using these three categories puts the 2017 NFL average for accuracy at 56.8 percent and average for “perfect” passes at 16.0 percent.
Catchable Inaccurate passes: High, Low, Front, Back
These passes are all somewhat on the receiver’s frame and in a “catchable” range, but they’re “inaccurate” in at least one of four directions.
Uncatchable Inaccurate passes: Overthrow, Underthrow, In Front, Behind
The uncatchable bucket includes a number of other categories, including plays made by the defender, but the basic concept is the quarterback is throwing a pass that is uncatchable either due to accuracy or a lack of velocity.
Are you going to keep telling me I’m wrong?
Accuracy - ( New Window )
Amtoft I told you you will never get the last word in with this guy. I think he is Daniel Jones jilted lover from Duke or something... LOL
ajr you remind of rookie engineers I work with that look at everything as a mathematical equation without having any real world experience to adjust their calcs for real life.
"We need 300kW for that row!"
Me: OK 400A at 415V gets you 287kW. Your typical utilization per row is less than 200kW.
"That's not enough we need 300kW per row!"
Me: OK we will have to run 600A end feeds at 415V. Those are twice the price, and we have to bolster up the Gordon grid points where they hang. You are costing your company roughly $500k in additional costs to give you another 13kW per row, when you only need 200kW."
"Yes but we need 300kW per row!!"
There are other factors to look at other than math, especially from a tweet with no context.
Quote:
The link to PFF employee says that he’s at 52%. You’re just using your bias and assumptions to assume that Jones’ number should be higher.
Wait a min... I am using a website that shows many advanced stats... you are using an illogical tweet that doesn't explain how it was even scored, lists like 3 players, and doesn't even have a link to the full list... Why don't you give me a complete list of that stats?
I mean his completion percentage was 64.3%... if his on target throws was 52% from a clean pocket what do you think he accuracy throws would be from being pressured? Better or worse? Much worse right... by miracle you are saying our WRs, RBs, and TEs somehow saved Daniel Jones on target throws and improved his accuracy by what 20+%? Does that even make sense. It might if we know how they got that score and the full list. Please provide it.
This isn't as complicated as you're making it.
The 52% is the rate of throws that are properly "on-target" from a clean pocket. They are not related to completion. Receivers can catch bad balls and drop good balls. Those are different stats. The point of that statistic is that DJ's accuracy - in terms of his throw, agnostic of whether the ball is caught - isn't markedly better even with a clean pocket.
Quote:
In comment 15576513 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576047 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576026 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15576016 AcidTest said:
Quote:
sounds like he's at least initially of the opinion that the OL is the main reason Jones and Barkley haven't been successful recently. Many people here don't agree, but it's not a surprising conclusion.
The most likely scenario was also always that both would be here for 2022, especially given our severe cap limitations. Nothing is guaranteed after that.
Fixing the OL has to be our highest priority. DG failed to do so. Let's seen is Schoen can.
I actually agree. The stats when Jones has time over when he doesn't is huge. Barkley is a RB that needs a hole to be successful. This OL is horrible save AT. Injuries really hurt us with starters Lemeaux and Gates going down for the year, but that doesn't explain why after all this time we have an issue still at RG and RT.
Jones ranked 34th (52%) on On Target Throws from a clean pocket. So where are these stats that show he’s good when he has time?
Sorry just saw this... so wait... I think you got that wrong. You are saying when Jones had time he only completed 52% of his passes... so when he didn't have time to throw he turned in such a high completion percentage under pressure that his total completion percentage ended up at 64.3% for the year? Meaning he was just lights out when under pressure? Pretty sure you got that backwards, but I could be wrong.
Honestly have been looking for the stats I saw and I can't find them. I can't find any no pressure stats, but I will try and keep looking for them.
That's not completion percentage.
It's on-target throws from a clean pocket. When he had a clean pocket, he was only on target 52% of the time. He may have completed a higher number of throws than that, but everything above 52% required receiver adjustment to a suboptimal throw.
Where are you seeing that because Daniel Jones for all his passes on target throws 76.1% for the year. So what you are saying is when he had time he had an on target throwing percentage of 52%, but when didn't have a clean pocket he somehow threw for a monster 80+%?
Think you guys need to check those numbers again.
What you're referencing there is his completion percentage on on-target throws.
The PFF stat is the percentage of his throws that were on-target.
You have to carve it out on both sides of the throw/catch.