feels like a missed opportunity to not even talk with Kwesi. If Vikings returns come close to Cleveland's with Berry I think we see a shift in what forward-thinking franchises look for in a GM. This would have been a lot more exciting and indicative of real change than Schoen, imo.
Too bad we didn't even talk to him.
I do not think it is the results that are necessarily the point. Mayfield was playing with a busted shoulder this year and the Brown made the playoffs and won a game last year (so its not like they haven't had any results). It is how Berry and his staff are at the forefront of changing the way the NFL front offices are shaped with a 360 view of all parts of the operations. I think Schoen fits that mold as well, but KAM was a real talent and would have loved him to be here.
Come on man! Ya know, real change!
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
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Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
Please post that “data” for public comment. Teams looking to hire new GM’s from outside of the organization are likely in bad shape. If you are successful you promote from within like Baltimore.
Definitely could be a massive thud.
But it's a really interesting hire, and could be a great move for them.
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In comment 15575572 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
Please post that “data” for public comment. Teams looking to hire new GM’s from outside of the organization are likely in bad shape. If you are successful you promote from within like Baltimore.
This is a great point. For the most part, the teams that are hiring GMs most frequently are those with some organizational dysfunction that has led to a breakdown in some (or all) parts of their football operations.
The fact that even half of the GMs who enter these scenarios are successful given the franchises they're taking over seems promising.
And for clarity, would this data have considered Gettleman an outside hire in the same manner that it would consider Schoen one? Not all outside hires are the same, right?
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In comment 15575572 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
Please post that “data” for public comment. Teams looking to hire new GM’s from outside of the organization are likely in bad shape. If you are successful you promote from within like Baltimore.
Forde says there are a couple of things that make football hiring unique. The first is that there is no comparable professional league. Soccer, obviously, has nearly limitless leagues worldwide to hire from or study if you are looking for a manager or executive. Basketball’s coaching ladder often includes any number of coaches with European professional experience. But there is one significant professional football league in the world. Owners are not exactly looking far and wide for qualified candidates, especially when it comes to general managers, a position, unlike coach, that doesn’t even have a comparable role in the college game.
Sportsology did a deep dive on the 57 general manager openings in the NFL since 2010. The numbers paint a picture of owners’ lack of creativity: 75 percent of the hires were former NFL scouts, and 70 percent of all hires came from a team that had made a Super Bowl during their tenure. This means that if you are a senior scout with a past Super Bowl participant, you are likely to be firmly in the mix. The numbers get more interesting from there. The data showed that teams with GMs from scouting backgrounds won less than those with GMs who had a salary cap and football operations background, a group that includes New Orleans’s Mickey Loomis, Buffalo’s Brandon Beane, and Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman. There are small sample sizes when you’re dealing with over a decade of hires in a 32-team league, but it’s important to point out that the data shows no real difference in winning percentage between GMs who came from a Super Bowl team and those who did not.
The NFL Keeps Failing Hiring 101 - ( New Window )
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In comment 15575598 Producer said:
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In comment 15575572 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
Please post that “data” for public comment. Teams looking to hire new GM’s from outside of the organization are likely in bad shape. If you are successful you promote from within like Baltimore.
This is a great point. For the most part, the teams that are hiring GMs most frequently are those with some organizational dysfunction that has led to a breakdown in some (or all) parts of their football operations.
The fact that even half of the GMs who enter these scenarios are successful given the franchises they're taking over seems promising.
And for clarity, would this data have considered Gettleman an outside hire in the same manner that it would consider Schoen one? Not all outside hires are the same, right?
This is not a great point. It's a shallow justification for inadequate hiring practices, with candidates drawn from a pathetically small pool.
In 2018 he was in SF.
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Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
How is Schoen anymore of the gentleman's club than Adofo-Mensah? They basically had the exact same role for different organizations.
unless the only qualification for entry into the gentleman's club in your mind is skin color - and if so - just say you wish for no particular reason other than skin color the Giants had hired a black GM. Which is fine for you to want, but just say it instead of that word salad.
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In comment 15575572 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
How is Schoen anymore of the gentleman's club than Adofo-Mensah? They basically had the exact same role for different organizations.
unless the only qualification for entry into the gentleman's club in your mind is skin color - and if so - just say you wish for no particular reason other than skin color the Giants had hired a black GM. Which is fine for you to want, but just say it instead of that word salad.
I don’t think race plays a role. Producer has always been angling for a non traditional hire as GM. Never mind that going too far outside of the box sometimes gets you a Joe Judge. It works in Minnesota as what they need is different than what Giants need. Minnesota can evaluate players, but their cap is a mess and they struggled at critiquing what was happening. From listening to reports out of Minnesota, I think they wanted more introspection from Spielman and Zimmer about the underachieving.
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In comment 15575598 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15575572 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Huh? Haven't the Bills been more successful of late than Cleveland?
The data clearly shows that hiring an assistant from a successful regime gives no benefit. They fail as often as they succeed.
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
How is Schoen anymore of the gentleman's club than Adofo-Mensah? They basically had the exact same role for different organizations.
unless the only qualification for entry into the gentleman's club in your mind is skin color - and if so - just say you wish for no particular reason other than skin color the Giants had hired a black GM. Which is fine for you to want, but just say it instead of that word salad.
I don’t think race plays a role. Producer has always been angling for a non traditional hire as GM. Never mind that going too far outside of the box sometimes gets you a Joe Judge. It works in Minnesota as what they need is different than what Giants need. Minnesota can evaluate players, but their cap is a mess and they struggled at critiquing what was happening. From listening to reports out of Minnesota, I think they wanted more introspection from Spielman and Zimmer about the underachieving.
Yes, thanks. He is conflating two separate opinions. I like Adofo-Mensah for his atypical experience for a fb exec. Masters in Economics, Stanford, 10 years Wall Street experience. Strong analytics background. I like his background better than Schoen. But the argument against the gentleman's club is about NFL hiring practices and the article I linked above. We really interviewed 3 people over two weeks. We should look at far more candidates for a multi-billion dollar organization.
You have to have race on your mind to think I was injecting race into this conversation. pjcas18 seems race-obsessed and seems to be projecting.
I guess I am not clear on what you meant by "gentleman's club"
you said what you said:
I guess I am not clear on what you meant by "gentleman's club"
you said what you said:
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Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
read the article i posted above. that's the context of that comment.
Please, enough already with the uninformed stupidity.
So, bring in a guy who is going to remake the team
Please, enough already with the uninformed stupidity.
nope
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again how the Bills Assistant GM is in the gentleman's club but the Browns VP of Football Operations is outside it.
I guess I am not clear on what you meant by "gentleman's club"
you said what you said:
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Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
read the article i posted above. that's the context of that comment.
These two men were in the exact same pool.
Adofo-Mensah is in the same "club" as Schoen.
He may have gotten there a different way, but once in the same or similar role I fail to see if the Giants interview the Browns VP of Football operations how that is edgy or unique outside the box thinking as opposed to the Bills assistant GM.
The article would have had the same criticism if the Giants hired Adofo-Mensah.
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In comment 15576012 pjcas18 said:
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again how the Bills Assistant GM is in the gentleman's club but the Browns VP of Football Operations is outside it.
I guess I am not clear on what you meant by "gentleman's club"
you said what you said:
Quote:
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
read the article i posted above. that's the context of that comment.
These two men were in the exact same pool.
Adofo-Mensah is in the same "club" as Schoen.
He may have gotten there a different way, but once in the same or similar role I fail to see if the Giants interview the Browns VP of Football operations how that is edgy or unique outside the box thinking as opposed to the Bills assistant GM.
The article would have had the same criticism if the Giants hired Adofo-Mensah.
you're arguing with yourself because you want to make some point about race.
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In comment 15576044 Producer said:
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In comment 15576012 pjcas18 said:
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again how the Bills Assistant GM is in the gentleman's club but the Browns VP of Football Operations is outside it.
I guess I am not clear on what you meant by "gentleman's club"
you said what you said:
Quote:
Hiring practices in the NFL are outdated and it is wise to consider candidates outside of the gentleman's club.
read the article i posted above. that's the context of that comment.
These two men were in the exact same pool.
Adofo-Mensah is in the same "club" as Schoen.
He may have gotten there a different way, but once in the same or similar role I fail to see if the Giants interview the Browns VP of Football operations how that is edgy or unique outside the box thinking as opposed to the Bills assistant GM.
The article would have had the same criticism if the Giants hired Adofo-Mensah.
you're arguing with yourself because you want to make some point about race.
k