NFT: Knicks @ Heat - 7:30 PM - Game Thread

who Thibs seemingly refuses to play actual legit players who can be good starters down the road or are they more bench energy guys on a good team.

Thibs is a good coach but a poor fit for this group

In comment 15577196 Mook80 said:

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who Thibs seemingly refuses to play actual legit players who can be good starters down the road or are they more bench energy guys on a good team. Thibs is a good coach but a poor fit for this group

Rj legit starter
Grimes legit starter
Quick combination
Obi combination
Reddish i think can be a legit starter but i am high on him
Mitch legit starter
Deuce Change of pace, lockdown defender

In comment 15577196 Mook80 said:

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who Thibs seemingly refuses to play actual legit players who can be good starters down the road or are they more bench energy guys on a good team.

Probably the latter for most, but RJ and Grimes could start on good teams. Obi need to improve the three point shot to average 20ppg. I don’t see any perennial All-Stars though.

.

In comment 15577199 bceagle05 said:

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In comment 15577196 Mook80 said: Quote: who Thibs seemingly refuses to play actual legit players who can be good starters down the road or are they more bench energy guys on a good team. Probably the latter for most, but RJ and Grimes could start on good teams. Obi need to improve the three point shot to average 20ppg. I don’t see any perennial All-Stars though.

Cam could maybe start right now. Obi can turn into a starter but I do think he'd be less effective playing starter minutes. RJ is obvi a starter and everything should flow through him from now on.

They’re gonna leave us in the dust too and we’ll be bottom four in the East, after being top four last year. Sucks, but not the end of the world.

I’m embarrassed to be a fan of this team and for the first time in a very long time, I did not turn on the game. Between the horrendous first quarters, Randle moping around the court and Thibs sitting with his hands over his ears, eyes and mouth — the team is maybe the worst to watch over the past 20 years. And with this franchise, that’s saying a lot. Knick management must make moves to stop this ugly, offensive basketball because if the don’t, they are going to lose their impressionable young players and their fans.

In comment 15577300 PhilSimms15 said:

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I’m embarrassed to be a fan of this team and for the first time in a very long time, I did not turn on the game. Between the horrendous first quarters, Randle moping around the court and Thibs sitting with his hands over his ears, eyes and mouth — the team is maybe the worst to watch over the past 20 years. And with this franchise, that’s saying a lot. Knick management must make moves to stop this ugly, offensive basketball because if the don’t, they are going to lose their impressionable young players and their fans.

I think the difference now than in thr past is that this team at least has 6 or 7 young players that you can see have a future in this league..

guy you can get excited about, not necassarily going to be stars but you can see a foundation of young guys

Would you trade Randle, Kemba and Burks for porzingis and Brunson?

Worst case scenario porzingis opts in to his last year 2023/2024 players option, but still 2 years less than Randle albeit at a higher salary. There is a chance he could opt out for a longer term deal at that point or he could be tradable as an expiring. If you decide not to resign mitch he becomes your starting center. Then you run our Brunson, grimes, RJ and Reddish with OBi becoming your 6th man. I don’t think Obi and the zinger could be on the floor together.

I would jump at your hypothetical trade scenario. I am no fan of KP but Randle is single-handily destroying the culture of the club. His body language is awful, he can’t shoot anymore, and he is lazy on defense.

In comment 15577344 GMEN46 said:

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Would you trade Randle, Kemba and Burks for porzingis and Brunson? Worst case scenario porzingis opts in to his last year 2023/2024 players option, but still 2 years less than Randle albeit at a higher salary. There is a chance he could opt out for a longer term deal at that point or he could be tradable as an expiring. If you decide not to resign mitch he becomes your starting center. Then you run our Brunson, grimes, RJ and Reddish with OBi becoming your 6th man. I don’t think Obi and the zinger could be on the floor together.

Think Dallas hangs the phone up in about .2 seconds.

A team in contact with the Knicks said Randle is available for the right price..

Also in Macri's newsletter he said players are frustrated with how some players are treated compared to others in the locker room. Apparently the front office was not happy with how Fournier reacted to the news of the Kemba benching.

Seems like players are getting sick of Randle as well

Gotta make some changes. I know Leon will do some stuff at the trade deadline. At this point, I kinda hope we just trade vets and let the kids play. Bring back the tank!

In comment 15577385 Heisenberg said:

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Gotta make some changes. I know Leon will do some stuff at the trade deadline. At this point, I kinda hope we just trade vets and let the kids play. Bring back the tank!

Depending on whats left and what is broight back in trades i dont think the team will tank like you think

'unimaginable spiral'
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Players on the roster i would Keep post deadline:

Rj, Mitch, Grimes, Quick, Reddish, Toppin, Deuce, Rose, Gibson (as a vet not in the rotation), Fournier(if he comes off the bench), Sims.

Get rid of Randle, Kemba, Burks

With Fournier if you can trade him, trade him but i am not giving up assets to get rid of him

I think there were a lot of questions during the offseason about why they chose to "run it back" by re-signing most of the core pieces from last year's playoff run and adding Fournier/Walker. It seemed like the line of thinking was that they wanted to stay competitive while also signing those guys to short term contracts that allowed them to remain flexible in the trade market.

Well, 40+ games in and it seems obvious that running it back wasn't such a good idea. It is pretty clear that outside of Rose when he is healthy, all of the vets that they allocated money to this offseason don't mesh with the young core that they have put together. I don't know what they have in Barrett, Toppin, Grimes, Quickley, Robinson, Reddish, etc. but I do know it's a group that's strengths and ideal style of play is something very different than the group of Randle, Walker, Fournier, Burks, and Gibson.

It's time to pivot, they need to do whatever they can to move on from the vets that are currently on the roster. Regardless of their poor play to start this year, Randle, Fournier, and Burks should still be able to net something of value in return. There is no reason to continue trotting this same lineup out there, and part of me wonders if the one of the reasons that Thibs continues to do it is because they feel by benching these guys it hurts their trade value.

Front office made a mistake this offseason, and it happens sometimes the way you think its going to go doesnt pan out, it happens..

The good front offices sees the mistakes and makes changes, the bad ones are stubborn and say it will work and not do anything becaise they are afraid to look bad..

It happens, the good news is it looks like they have drafted really well and they have some young guys on this roster that can start a foundation

as long as you don't compound the problem with panic moves. Randle is the only big issue that has to be dealt with - Knicks fans have seen enough guys check out on NY to know Randle has checked out on NY. Just deal him for a decent return, deal Burks for a future pick, and waive/bench Kemba if you can't find a trade partner for him.

I also agree with keeping Fournier - wouldn't surprise me at all to see him improve when the dead weight is gone. He's not some terrible player.

I just want to enjoy watching the Knicks again for the second half of this season. I only tune in at this point to watch the young guys, and end up just getting pissed off watching Randle hijack the games.

Trot out a lineup of Quickley, Grimes, Barrett, Toppin, Robinson. Give McBride, Reddish, Sims significant minutes off the bench. Even if they only win 10 games the rest of the way, at least they will play an exciting, energetic brand of basketball that will be fun to watch.

In comment 15577672 Mike in NJ said:

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I just want to enjoy watching the Knicks again for the second half of this season. I only tune in at this point to watch the young guys, and end up just getting pissed off watching Randle hijack the games. Trot out a lineup of Quickley, Grimes, Barrett, Toppin, Robinson. Give McBride, Reddish, Sims significant minutes off the bench. Even if they only win 10 games the rest of the way, at least they will play an exciting, energetic brand of basketball that will be fun to watch.

+ a billion dude.

Totally want to see RJ as the focal point of this team with Grimes, IQ, Deuce, Cam, and Toppin getting their minutes.

That would be perfect imo. They'd add the perfect vet combination to our needs. Would allow Cam to pencil in as the backup 2-3. Let Obi come of the bench.

No reason to have Fournier, Burks, Randle, and Kemba on the team. Even Noel is an extra part we don't need right now.

is you find out which guys on your team want to compete and which guys are just going through the motions and collecting paychecks.

I want to see him on the floor as the #1 option on offense with the kids orbiting around him doing their thing. The RJ-Obi chemistry is building.

NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
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Report: A framework of Duncan Robinson for Christian Wood has circulated around the league

“Houston appears to require far more to part with their frontcourt centerpiece.”

i talked to my guy, he said it was the Kings, they want Randle, Knicks said Randle for Fox...Kings prefer something like Barnes and a pick for randle..

See where it goes

Barnes is a solid player who's got one more year left on his deal for a measly $18 million. I would take that deal and run.

about Randle, Fournier and Noel for Westbrook, THT and the Lakers and Bulls 2nd round picks in 2023 (the first picks the Lakers can move). Westbrook has 1 year remaining. The Knicks could also buyout Westbrook before next season and build around RJ, Toppin, Reddish, THT, Mitch, McBride, IQ, Grimes and the Knicks would have 6 2023 2nd round picks.

about adapting and not doing the same thing over and over again

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The ‘incessant buzz around’ the league is that there are those in Donovan Mitchell’s circle who believe he is too big of a star for Salt Lake City, per
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East Scout: “They’re a first-round exit from Donovan being in New York

In comment 15577860 nygiants16 said:

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i talked to my guy, he said it was the Kings, they want Randle, Knicks said Randle for Fox...Kings prefer something like Barnes and a pick for randle.. See where it goes

Happy to hear this. It make sense for both teams.

That would be pretty sweet.

this team is just not fun to watch unless you're player watching. Offense is Fizdale-like at times.

Everyone knows my stance on Randle. Gotta get rid of him.

Team lacks heart. Complete 180 from lasts years team.

In comment 15578010 adamg said:

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In comment 15577860 nygiants16 said: Quote: i talked to my guy, he said it was the Kings, they want Randle, Knicks said Randle for Fox...Kings prefer something like Barnes and a pick for randle.. See where it goes Happy to hear this. It make sense for both teams.

It does make sense for both teams, I guess. I'd much rather Fox but ok. Crazy that it is already at this point. So hard to imagine Randle flaming out as quickly as he did but oof. He's fucking miserable here right now and watching him play is making me miserable too.

In comment 15578092 Heisenberg said:

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In comment 15578010 adamg said: Quote: In comment 15577860 nygiants16 said: Quote: i talked to my guy, he said it was the Kings, they want Randle, Knicks said Randle for Fox...Kings prefer something like Barnes and a pick for randle.. See where it goes Happy to hear this. It make sense for both teams. It does make sense for both teams, I guess. I'd much rather Fox but ok. Crazy that it is already at this point. So hard to imagine Randle flaming out as quickly as he did but oof. He's fucking miserable here right now and watching him play is making me miserable too.

what i want to know is what happened, he lead the team in scoring 6 of the first 11 games and the team had energy..

then all of sudden it went downhill and hr looks miseable

cant just sit Randle for a week before he is eligible to be traded

I loved everything he did last year and watching him play. But I think it's too far gone at this point. They have to move him and get off that contract if they can.

Leon Rose had a terrible offseason. Randle extension, Noel contract, Fournier signings etc. He needs to be better and hasn't proven much as a GM yet. Would be nice to hear speak once in awhile too.

Last night was hard to watch. Starters clearly quit. It was only one play but it was hard to watch Barrett not go after Duncan Robinson 1v1 on a fast break.

Thibs has no choice at this point but to play some of the younger guys over the vets. They flat out give them a better chance to win.

In comment 15578232 TyreeHelmet said:

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I loved everything he did last year and watching him play. But I think it's too far gone at this point. They have to move him and get off that contract if they can. Leon Rose had a terrible offseason. Randle extension, Noel contract, Fournier signings etc. He needs to be better and hasn't proven much as a GM yet. Would be nice to hear speak once in awhile too. Last night was hard to watch. Starters clearly quit. It was only one play but it was hard to watch Barrett not go after Duncan Robinson 1v1 on a fast break. Thibs has no choice at this point but to play some of the younger guys over the vets. They flat out give them a better chance to win.

I dont think you can really judge Rose yet, He gave out some team friendly deals to try and build off last uear and it hasnt worked..

He has made some good moves and some bad moves but nothing that has hamstrung them to the point of no return..

They have added quality young players with room for growth..

and anyonr of us would of given Randle that contract..

and I surely know less than most here, but it sure did feel last year like Randle was playing well above his ceiling. It felt like too many tough shots were falling too frequently.

Once that dries up, he's little more than a ball stopper.

Kind of surprising to hear that a team as bad as the kings has interest in him.

Randle has fallen. He's had one outlier of a year in his career. And that was last year. He hasn't fallen. He just reverted back to the player he has always been.

In comment 15578306 JohninSC said:

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Randle has fallen. He's had one outlier of a year in his career. And that was last year. He hasn't fallen. He just reverted back to the player he has always been.

This isnt exactly true, he has been a good player throughout his career, last year he took it to another level..

but this year is something different...

with the Knicks, for reasons unspecified, came away with the impression that Knicks were making Randle available.

He did not say that team had gotten in touch with the Knicks to ask about Randle.

There's a difference.
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has no idea what they are talking about. Rose did exactly what he and every other team would have done - try to lock up a young, improving all-star player. Coming off of his last season, it was a no brainer. How many times have you seen a player, across all sports, capitalize off of a great year? All the time. It’s always a risk, but one you have to take. No issues there.

It sucks that Randle has taken a step backwards, but that’s not what really bugs me. It’s his attitude. He talked a big game last season when things were going well and now when adversity hits, he can’t handle or overcome it. See ya. I have no room for low basketball IQ, drama filled, underperforming players. Especially when they are supposed to be a leader. Randle has to go.

when they are watching film, does anyone call him out? coaches, players anybody? I mean if you are Randle and you see yourself on video and you still dont change something is up..

In comment 15578573 nygiants16 said:

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when they are watching film, does anyone call him out? coaches, players anybody? I mean if you are Randle and you see yourself on video and you still dont change something is up..

Literally on Thibs. That's his job. Benching him would send a signal to the entire team.

But this looks bad and I don't know how to explain it.

trotting him out there but we all know what the change will be..

Burks for Kemba..

Thibs wouldnt even say the starters played bad yesterday, he basically said it was everyone

and had plenty of characters on this team, but I don't recall a key guy just dogging it like this over an extended period of time - and not facing any repercussions.

In comment 15578829 Enzo said:

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and had plenty of characters on this team, but I don't recall a key guy just dogging it like this over an extended period of time - and not facing any repercussions.

He is playing like he is throwing games

but even more so compared to Obi Toppin. You could have said maybe it had something to do with the position he plays and how he's asked to play defensively, but Toppin being on the total opposite end of the spectrum says otherwise.