Despite past history and those that feel Mara won't be able to let go, I really think that he realizes he just needs to get the right people in here and let them go to work.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
which is fine as long as the new regime make an honest assessment of what Jones is over the course of this upcoming season. If the GM/HC combo determine, like most nyg fans, that Jones is essentially a backup in starter's clothing, I hope the owner defers to them moving forward as they attempt to bring in the right guy to lead this franchise forward. Sentimentality for Eli was wrong, but understandable. There should be absolutely no such feeling for Jones.
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
Whether we want to argue about Schoen having power delegation on some things, it's clear Mara will not stay out of influencing decision making to a degree that we should feel uncomfortable with. That's a real problem still.
I don't see the need to throw any negativity out at this point. We are talking about someone who is well respected in the building and locker room. Doesn't mean that they also recognize he is most likely not the answer.
Agree, JS and HC will take the best course moving forward. Truthfully, having Jones and and a Vet chump is not a bad thing as 2022 should be about cleaning out the roster and getting experience for the young players and new draftees. 10 years of losing sucks, but 2022 is a good year to stink record wise while also implementing new schemes focusing on young player and draftee development. imv.
"I want Joe and the new coaches to make that evaluation."
Then he gives his opinion about Jones. Pretty measured response. And we pretty much know Jones will be here so I don't see anything to get up in arms about. The knee jerk reactions here are something.
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
if Schoen and coaching staff aren't willing to pick it up, I don't see Mara overruling them. And assuming Jones is medically cleared to play, giving him a shot to "prove it" during the 2022 season probably makes sense imo.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Seems like the conclusion has already been reached, that should tell you something
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
How would Mara have known enough about Jones before the Senior Bowl to instruct DG to fall in love with him. Makes no sense.
You're assuming Dave is telling the truth. He got caught by the media a couple of times lying directly to them. He just smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
You're assuming Dave is telling the truth. He got caught by the media a couple of times lying directly to them. He just smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
It was video of him sitting in the stands watching Jones and talking with his scouts. Do you really think that was staged or whatever.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
to screw this kid up. The offensive line has been shit, making it impossible to definitively evaluate whether he can do the job or not.
Because of people frustration so that FACT is minimized. Now he and Barkley are suppose make the OL block better with some innate ability or either slow down time for routes to develop that are outside of 3 step drops.
Now to be fair SB could run tougher and help set up managable downs on some of this years busted plays. Jones needs to stop bird-dogging (his biggest issue) and process faster.
However if the OL cant not hold up enogh to let the med and deep routes develop ou are forced to 1 read run or throwaway. His fumbles and ints went down ... ie ball security and processing info and understanding the moment.
Improvment.
SB is clearly "healthy" physically overall but not mentally right. I think he'll get his bounce/pop back but will he stop playing not to get hurt is the big question (stopping at the line and bracing himself, jumping inthe air to absorb the hit make sure no feet are planted (unable to fall forward that way))? TBD ... He needs to run angrier .... If the new RB/HC, or OC can push that right button ala Parcells he can salavaged and go on to have a very nice career.
If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.'
This is 100% true.
Saying the owners should be completely uninvolved in a decision as important as a head coaching hire (and associated contractual obligations if he doesn't work out) is just silly.
But if the owners are more than a "slight thumb on the scale" (i.e. two very equally rated candidates; owners weighs in they like candidate B over candidate A), we have a problem.
And IF the owners were involving insisting or strongly suggesting the selection of a coordinator (e.g. Garrett with his HC experience relative to Judge), that is a huge red flag.
Unless a coordinator, position coach or player has some off the field issues that could bring major embarrassment or financial risk to the team, the owners should just stay in their offices sipping their medium Pepsi.
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
I don't get why everyone is hanging on every word here?
He said he'd like to have better coaching and a better OL so that they could make a better evaluation of whether Jones is a franchise AB or not. He did not say he thinks Jones is a franchise QB based on what he's done until now. And I'll add that they need to make that determination this year before they decide whether to extend or not.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
They say Jones hasn't been given a shot because of revolving door coaches and a bad O line, but this year he will have all new coaches and the odds the line will be completely fixed are low.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
RE: I don't get why everyone is hanging on every word here?
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
with regard to Jones over the first 3 years but over the last few months I've gotten to the point where I am rooting as hard for him as I ever have for a player. He's taken more shit from Giant 'fans' than anybody I can remember. And quite honestly, I think dealing with adversity and coming out the other side is one of the qualities that defines a franchise QB. Since we're not winning next year anyway might as well find out.
the word was the Maras and Shurmur loved him and got the ball rolling. Shurmur also wanted Josh Allen the year before, so you know they were doing their best to get a QB from those high draft picks. As of now, they picked the wrong one and skipped over Herbert. Frrrrrrrrrrrrrp.
They do not know if the kid will be cleared yet. How can they put all the eggs in that basket? We are going to wait until then to scramble to get a QB if they don't clear him. Fuck that. If the new GM is that stupid we are fucked before we started.
Mara sounds committed to giving Jones the chance to do the job. That said, what else is he going to say? They don't have any other options at QB right now, so he'd be foolish to say anything else.
with regard to Jones over the first 3 years but over the last few months I've gotten to the point where I am rooting as hard for him as I ever have for a player. He's taken more shit from Giant 'fans' than anybody I can remember. And quite honestly, I think dealing with adversity and coming out the other side is one of the qualities that defines a franchise QB. Since we're not winning next year anyway might as well find out.
Sounds like the Eli revenge tour 2.0
RE: Let me see what they do with his 5th year option
Exactly, that will speak volumes. Not offering the option and then deciding they wanted to keep him would cost an additional ~$10-15M for that 5th year, unless they sign him long term in between. Even with freed up cap money, that's a big chunk of change.
RE: Craig carton actually had a good point just now
They say Jones hasn't been given a shot because of revolving door coaches and a bad O line, but this year he will have all new coaches and the odds the line will be completely fixed are low.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
With 2 picks in the top 10 ... no way they can not fix the OL ... Value/Weapon/Dont pick IOL that high ... F that the OL sucks D is good /w holes PASS RUSHERS ...
So if you really want to say there is no value in IOL ... we need a RT get the best availble RT at 5 and trade down for 7 to get more OL and Pass Rush help via extra picks ... Or be radical and say F it DE and OLB complete the D /w picks 5 & 7 then go OL in rds 2 and 3 (cluster draft while still in the red chip section of the store)
To say you cant fix the OL in 1 draft with capital we have is not accurate. It can be done will we do it is another question altogether.
Joe S show us those skills ... he said he is ready for the draft .... what he thinks and how he views players goes with him ... he make leave an exit file but it is not like his understand of the upcoming players is not erased from his mind. What he is lacking is the internal knowledge about the NYG players 1st hand.
Side Note: I think that is helping Graham some besides the D was really the only productive unit on the whole team.
It makes absolutely no sense to say in public that DJ cant play. Read between the lines, the Giants have to get the cap under control. Cutting DJ leaves them at just over $8Mil in Dead cap space. Then you have the issues of bringing in another starting QB, so you are tying up a lot of money in the QB spot. There isnt a top 10 QB in the draft either so pretty much DJ is the guy for 2022.
Give him as much praise as you can and hopefully he plays well in 2022. Whether you like him or not there are not a lot of better options out there. No quality vet is going to come here because this team is not good and is rebuilding. So you have a group of QBs who are probably the same caliber as DJ and you are going to tie up more money for the same guy.
Keep DJ one more year and then see what kind of team you have heading into 2023. Maybe DJ is the guy and maybe its time to draft his successor. Bring in a vet to compete with him this year and see where it goes. The coaches and GM are not tied to DJ so may the best man win.
There's not a lot of better options for the Giants this year
from the draft, FA or trade than rolling one more year with Jones and filling some of the holes around Jones and then either Jones shows he's the guy or we move on with a better roster.
RE: RE: Let me see what they do with his 5th year option
Exactly, that will speak volumes. Not offering the option and then deciding they wanted to keep him would cost an additional ~$10-15M for that 5th year, unless they sign him long term in between. Even with freed up cap money, that's a big chunk of change.
they are not picking up the 5th year option. so that wont be the tell.
The real tell is whether or not they bring in a decent QB and actually hold a QB competition in the summer.
My money is on Jones being the presumptive starter all summer and into the fall
They say Jones hasn't been given a shot because of revolving door coaches and a bad O line, but this year he will have all new coaches and the odds the line will be completely fixed are low.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
With 2 picks in the top 10 ... no way they can not fix the OL ... Value/Weapon/Dont pick IOL that high ... F that the OL sucks D is good /w holes PASS RUSHERS ...
So if you really want to say there is no value in IOL ... we need a RT get the best availble RT at 5 and trade down for 7 to get more OL and Pass Rush help via extra picks ... Or be radical and say F it DE and OLB complete the D /w picks 5 & 7 then go OL in rds 2 and 3 (cluster draft while still in the red chip section of the store)
To say you cant fix the OL in 1 draft with capital we have is not accurate. It can be done will we do it is another question altogether.
Joe S show us those skills ... he said he is ready for the draft .... what he thinks and how he views players goes with him ... he make leave an exit file but it is not like his understand of the upcoming players is not erased from his mind. What he is lacking is the internal knowledge about the NYG players 1st hand.
Side Note: I think that is helping Graham some besides the D was really the only productive unit on the whole team.
Even if you draft the right guys this year, the odds are likely you won't have the proof that they are good because they will likely struggle as rookies often do. Thomas has settled into being a very good tackle, but that was not clear after his first year.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
The FT for QB's is expected to be just under $30M this year, and will certainly go up next year, so the difference will be north of $10M. Maybe they do it anyway, but with so many roster holes to fill, it's not a great allocation of resources.
RE: RE: I’m just so done talking about Daniel Jones
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
The fact that you put Jimmy G and Matt Stafford in the same category pretty much nullifies everything else you say.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
There's every possibility (presuming Jones passes a physical) that Jones could be traded in the pre-season to a team that lost their QB because of injury. Or, possibly a team that does not think there's a decent QB in the 2022 draft might offer picks for a one year rental.
You want to pump up Jones, not tear him down. I can't see any advantage for Schoen or John Mara saying "Jones stinks", so why would they? Jones does have plenty of video to look at, so making an evaluation on him should be possible.
Anyway, it does not matter who starts at QB in 2022. The team will have another losing record, especially if the new GM is serious about fixing the cap (fixing the cap means no Watson, no Wilson, no Rodgers, and pretty much no top tier FA's).
The plan for 2022 should be fixing the cap first, then the lines as much as possible, and setting up for a QB in 2023, either through the draft, or in FA (when the Giants hopefully will have plenty of money).
The Niners don’t think Jimmy G is good enough. They traded up to draft his replacement. It’s enough already with Jones.
The Niners have one of the elite offensive coaches in the sport. They have Deebo and Kittle. They traded for the sport’s best left tackle. Shanahan’s scheme could make a quality running back out of a 90 year old woman. When you have all of these things, it’s easy to make a judgement on a QB’s ceiling and his future with your organization.
The Giants have NONE of these things. (Even the one good decision they made, Andrew Thomas, wasn’t great because he was perhaps the worst left tackle in the game as a rookie.) It’s makes it difficult to truly evaluate a QB. If you recognize that the way the organization drafted, supported, and built around Eli was the right way to do it, then I’m not sure how anyone could disagree even 1% with John Mara’s comment. Doesn’t mean Jones will be handed the job for even one more day, but it’s simply an acknowledgment of reality.
I still wanna see Jones behind a competent OL with an offense designed to his strengths.
Danny's GOT to stay on the field. That's job #1, IMO. Missing time ain't gonna get it. That said, I'm hoping the new HC brings in a competent QB coach. I want him to succeed.
Riddle me this…”if we’ve done everything to screw up
DJ,” have they done the same with past GM and HC selections…let alone Player Personnel decisions? Just wondering if the same logic applies to the decade of players drafted to those getting contracts extended or those traded away, or FA signings and how each have panned out…
I retract my riddle after reading John Mara’s comments
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
You're sounding a bit conspiratorial these days.
I have little doubt that the Maras like meddling, but I've noticed a paranoid shift amongst Giant fans since Gettlemen was fired. Gettlemen went from being an incompetant blundering buffoon to being a puppet. You all wanted him fired. He gets fired. You move the goalposts.
Gettlemen was outdated and arrogant. He made many mistakes, but given his ego I don't believe that he was a mindless puppet doing the Maras' bidding. He was in full bloom love with Jones.
If you hire a GM and a HC you have confidence in, you let them
make this decision. I'm sick of arguing about Jones. If they think he can do the job given a supporting cast fine, if they think he will never be more than a backup and move on, fine again. I'm just going to root for whatever team they put on the field. I certainly don't know more about individual player decisions, and how well they are doing their job vs how they are affected by the surrounding cast, than Schoen or the HC.
should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
I've been fighting this fight all day.
Hmmmm. I've been away all day on a business trip. Where can I find this fight? ;)
That said, I'd push back a little for some reasons:
1) Schoen has no ties to DJ. Yeah, he sung his praises @ the presser. BFD. What does one expect him to say publicly?
2) Was Schoen THAT desperate for a gig that he'd box himself in like that? I doubt it. He seems like a smart guy. And he had option options too; Chicago was enamored with him. And if he felt DJ was being forced on him-& he had no love/feel for DJ-why not return to Buffalo? He's a young dude. There'll be opportunities down the line. This isn't DG 2.0; Gettleman was getting hired by nobody except us.
3) What Mara says publicly about Jones might be completely different what he thinks privately. Yes, I really do believe we drafted DJ because he looks like Eli & was tutored by Cutliffe. And we know how much John loves Eli. That said...I watched Eli Manning. I loved Eli Manning. Eli Manning was a favorite of mine. DJ, you're no Eli Manning. Unless Mara is a football idiot-entirely possible-or blind-also entirely possible-he can't honestly think that DJ is going to have Eli's career here.
4) All GMs want their own HC & QB. Schoen is going to get the former soon enough. He's not hitching his ride long term to Jones.
5) Off topic...the NFL Draft. I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants took a QB early, if not the first round, maybe the second round...Willis from Liberty comes to mind if he's there.
Again, I might be completely wrong. I'm praying I'm not.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
You're sounding a bit conspiratorial these days.
I have little doubt that the Maras like meddling, but I've noticed a paranoid shift amongst Giant fans since Gettlemen was fired. Gettlemen went from being an incompetant blundering buffoon to being a puppet. You all wanted him fired. He gets fired. You move the goalposts.
Gettlemen was outdated and arrogant. He made many mistakes, but given his ego I don't believe that he was a mindless puppet doing the Maras' bidding. He was in full bloom love with Jones.
That said, I'd push back a little for some reasons:
1) Schoen has no ties to DJ. Yeah, he sung his praises @ the presser. BFD. What does one expect him to say publicly?
2) Was Schoen THAT desperate for a gig that he'd box himself in like that? I doubt it. He seems like a smart guy. And he had option options too; Chicago was enamored with him. And if he felt DJ was being forced on him-& he had no love/feel for DJ-why not return to Buffalo? He's a young dude. There'll be opportunities down the line. This isn't DG 2.0; Gettleman was getting hired by nobody except us.
3) What Mara says publicly about Jones might be completely different what he thinks privately. Yes, I really do believe we drafted DJ because he looks like Eli & was tutored by Cutliffe. And we know how much John loves Eli. That said...I watched Eli Manning. I loved Eli Manning. Eli Manning was a favorite of mine. DJ, you're no Eli Manning. Unless Mara is a football idiot-entirely possible-or blind-also entirely possible-he can't honestly think that DJ is going to have Eli's career here.
4) All GMs want their own HC & QB. Schoen is going to get the former soon enough. He's not hitching his ride long term to Jones.
5) Off topic...the NFL Draft. I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants took a QB early, if not the first round, maybe the second round...Willis from Liberty comes to mind if he's there.
Again, I might be completely wrong. I'm praying I'm not.
All that is reasonable.
But the better, honest answer Schoen should have given is that he hadn't studied any film on Jones yet and he looks forward to that process. And he wants to hear the expert views from his HC and OC on Jones before he makes comments.
Otherwise, IMV, what he says sounded very much like a GM candidate who said exactly what Mara wanted to hear.
RE: RE: I’m just so done talking about Daniel Jones
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
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1h
Joe Schoen and Giants backing Daniel Jones not the least bit surprising. Asked a HC, GM, OC + personnel exec about Jones in early-December. All thought he was quality starter with better supporting cast. Given Giants cap situation and need to rebuild, this is right move for now.
I don't dare get my hopes up until, as others have said, we see what we do with Jones after 2022.
My fear is that Mara wants to win a Super Bowl with him and his family picking some (more?) of the groceries. Winning a Super Bowl with him and his family in quarantine is, at least subconsciously, the last thing they want.
RE: More BBI nonsense that Gettleman 'was just a patsy'
Now it's Daniel Jones being the Mara's prize and Gettleman just went along as the quiet yes-man in the draft room.
Good lord, you all can't help yourselves. Like a sewing-circle of women at the old folks home gossiping away and making up stories...
This^
I read these posts and I shake my head at the crap laid out. And that goes for you too Eric. Can we please wait until at least the coaching staff is mostly assembled before we make blanket statements that support conspiracies.
What else is Mara going to say? Jones is still the QB. He was dealt a shitty hand. Despite what some buffoons say, Jones does have trade value, it may be small. If you start denigrating him it worsens trade value and if you intend to play him this year it undermines him with the team if you do not publicly support him.
I for one, do not think he is the guy because he gets hurt a lot and he does not finish drives. Why he cannot finish drives I do not know but, the shitty play calling is part of it(worst route tree in the red zone of any team in football).
Again, I do not think DJ is "The One," but Mara and Schoen cannot throw him under the bus at this point. It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, except to satisfy the rabble-rousers of BBI.
Oh, and can anyone name one owner that does not "meddle" in their billion dollar company. Some do more than others and JM seems to have been worse than others(and has been bad at it, too). The finality of the players should be the GM.
should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
I've been fighting this fight all day.
It sure seems Mara loves hearing what he wants to hear.
he has to show support until the day they decide to move on from him. Today, Jones is the quarterback and until we have someone else in the building, you have to show full confidence in him (at least publicly).
If you indicate there is doubt in your belief in Jones, it does the following:
1. Does not help his mental development this off season
2. Tips your hand to your opponents of what you may be doing on draft day
Some of you guys want your pound of flesh with Jones just like you wanted with Gettleman (he couldn't retire, we had to fire him). Any comments from management that is something other than "Jones sucks and we need a new QB" is disappointing to you.
The right move here would be to show support in Jones while simultaneously exploring all options behind closed doors to upgrade the QB position. Then, maybe we find someone and keep Jones as a solid backup. A much improved backup QB than what we had last year.
Let Schoen hire his head coach and have them dissect the Giants and make decisions. DJ at worst is a middling starter and will probably be the NYG QB next year as there does not seem to be a better one in the draft this year. i'll let it play out and not lose any sleep over it.
"We do think this kid can play," was the first thing he said.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
The whole statement
Link - ( New Window )
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
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how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
Whether we want to argue about Schoen having power delegation on some things, it's clear Mara will not stay out of influencing decision making to a degree that we should feel uncomfortable with. That's a real problem still.
Agree, JS and HC will take the best course moving forward. Truthfully, having Jones and and a Vet chump is not a bad thing as 2022 should be about cleaning out the roster and getting experience for the young players and new draftees. 10 years of losing sucks, but 2022 is a good year to stink record wise while also implementing new schemes focusing on young player and draftee development. imv.
Then he gives his opinion about Jones. Pretty measured response. And we pretty much know Jones will be here so I don't see anything to get up in arms about. The knee jerk reactions here are something.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Zero chance either of those things is true
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
And if Jones plays well in 2022 with an improved offensive line, scheme, and better coaching, is that still an enormous problem?
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how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Seems like the conclusion has already been reached, that should tell you something
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If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
And if Jones plays well in 2022 with an improved offensive line, scheme, and better coaching, is that still an enormous problem?
Define playing well.
Throwing 40 TDs and leading an offense that scores 27 PPG? Not a problem.
But, come on...
not saying I disagree, It is just unbelievable that we're still in this position.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
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Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
How would Mara have known enough about Jones before the Senior Bowl to instruct DG to fall in love with him. Makes no sense.
The last sentence is the most important. "IF he's going to be the franchise quarterback."
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
It was video of him sitting in the stands watching Jones and talking with his scouts. Do you really think that was staged or whatever.
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
If he does this is what will happen:
JS: we believe in Jones
*Drafts a qb*
Certain fans: omg Schoen lied to us! Horrible gm
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
Because of people frustration so that FACT is minimized. Now he and Barkley are suppose make the OL block better with some innate ability or either slow down time for routes to develop that are outside of 3 step drops.
Now to be fair SB could run tougher and help set up managable downs on some of this years busted plays. Jones needs to stop bird-dogging (his biggest issue) and process faster.
However if the OL cant not hold up enogh to let the med and deep routes develop ou are forced to 1 read run or throwaway. His fumbles and ints went down ... ie ball security and processing info and understanding the moment.
Improvment.
SB is clearly "healthy" physically overall but not mentally right. I think he'll get his bounce/pop back but will he stop playing not to get hurt is the big question (stopping at the line and bracing himself, jumping inthe air to absorb the hit make sure no feet are planted (unable to fall forward that way))? TBD ... He needs to run angrier .... If the new RB/HC, or OC can push that right button ala Parcells he can salavaged and go on to have a very nice career.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
This is 100% true.
Saying the owners should be completely uninvolved in a decision as important as a head coaching hire (and associated contractual obligations if he doesn't work out) is just silly.
But if the owners are more than a "slight thumb on the scale" (i.e. two very equally rated candidates; owners weighs in they like candidate B over candidate A), we have a problem.
And IF the owners were involving insisting or strongly suggesting the selection of a coordinator (e.g. Garrett with his HC experience relative to Judge), that is a huge red flag.
Unless a coordinator, position coach or player has some off the field issues that could bring major embarrassment or financial risk to the team, the owners should just stay in their offices sipping their medium Pepsi.
:-)
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
Ok Eric.
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If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
There is no reasonable leap forward that is going to make it make sense to pay Jones a second contract.
We're talking 30-35 TDs, 25+ PPG and 10+ wins in a season where the entire roster is a mess.
22 TDs and a hope that the arrow is pointing up isn't good enough. 2022 has to be a HUGE year for it to make sense to pay Jones. Absolutely huge.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
Giants are pretty predictable. And when they come out and say what you predicted them to do, its just about a lock.
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There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
Sounds like the Eli revenge tour 2.0
Exactly, that will speak volumes. Not offering the option and then deciding they wanted to keep him would cost an additional ~$10-15M for that 5th year, unless they sign him long term in between. Even with freed up cap money, that's a big chunk of change.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
With 2 picks in the top 10 ... no way they can not fix the OL ... Value/Weapon/Dont pick IOL that high ... F that the OL sucks D is good /w holes PASS RUSHERS ...
So if you really want to say there is no value in IOL ... we need a RT get the best availble RT at 5 and trade down for 7 to get more OL and Pass Rush help via extra picks ... Or be radical and say F it DE and OLB complete the D /w picks 5 & 7 then go OL in rds 2 and 3 (cluster draft while still in the red chip section of the store)
To say you cant fix the OL in 1 draft with capital we have is not accurate. It can be done will we do it is another question altogether.
Joe S show us those skills ... he said he is ready for the draft .... what he thinks and how he views players goes with him ... he make leave an exit file but it is not like his understand of the upcoming players is not erased from his mind. What he is lacking is the internal knowledge about the NYG players 1st hand.
Side Note: I think that is helping Graham some besides the D was really the only productive unit on the whole team.
Give him as much praise as you can and hopefully he plays well in 2022. Whether you like him or not there are not a lot of better options out there. No quality vet is going to come here because this team is not good and is rebuilding. So you have a group of QBs who are probably the same caliber as DJ and you are going to tie up more money for the same guy.
Keep DJ one more year and then see what kind of team you have heading into 2023. Maybe DJ is the guy and maybe its time to draft his successor. Bring in a vet to compete with him this year and see where it goes. The coaches and GM are not tied to DJ so may the best man win.
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Exactly, that will speak volumes. Not offering the option and then deciding they wanted to keep him would cost an additional ~$10-15M for that 5th year, unless they sign him long term in between. Even with freed up cap money, that's a big chunk of change.
they are not picking up the 5th year option. so that wont be the tell.
The real tell is whether or not they bring in a decent QB and actually hold a QB competition in the summer.
My money is on Jones being the presumptive starter all summer and into the fall
Agreed. Fair assessment and non-emotional...Not a lot of the lately.
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They say Jones hasn't been given a shot because of revolving door coaches and a bad O line, but this year he will have all new coaches and the odds the line will be completely fixed are low.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
With 2 picks in the top 10 ... no way they can not fix the OL ... Value/Weapon/Dont pick IOL that high ... F that the OL sucks D is good /w holes PASS RUSHERS ...
So if you really want to say there is no value in IOL ... we need a RT get the best availble RT at 5 and trade down for 7 to get more OL and Pass Rush help via extra picks ... Or be radical and say F it DE and OLB complete the D /w picks 5 & 7 then go OL in rds 2 and 3 (cluster draft while still in the red chip section of the store)
To say you cant fix the OL in 1 draft with capital we have is not accurate. It can be done will we do it is another question altogether.
Joe S show us those skills ... he said he is ready for the draft .... what he thinks and how he views players goes with him ... he make leave an exit file but it is not like his understand of the upcoming players is not erased from his mind. What he is lacking is the internal knowledge about the NYG players 1st hand.
Side Note: I think that is helping Graham some besides the D was really the only productive unit on the whole team.
Even if you draft the right guys this year, the odds are likely you won't have the proof that they are good because they will likely struggle as rookies often do. Thomas has settled into being a very good tackle, but that was not clear after his first year.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
The FT for QB's is expected to be just under $30M this year, and will certainly go up next year, so the difference will be north of $10M. Maybe they do it anyway, but with so many roster holes to fill, it's not a great allocation of resources.
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Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
The fact that you put Jimmy G and Matt Stafford in the same category pretty much nullifies everything else you say.
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In comment 15576214 Eric from BBI said:
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how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
He scouted him.. The Bills know Dan very well.
You want to pump up Jones, not tear him down. I can't see any advantage for Schoen or John Mara saying "Jones stinks", so why would they? Jones does have plenty of video to look at, so making an evaluation on him should be possible.
Anyway, it does not matter who starts at QB in 2022. The team will have another losing record, especially if the new GM is serious about fixing the cap (fixing the cap means no Watson, no Wilson, no Rodgers, and pretty much no top tier FA's).
The plan for 2022 should be fixing the cap first, then the lines as much as possible, and setting up for a QB in 2023, either through the draft, or in FA (when the Giants hopefully will have plenty of money).
The Niners have one of the elite offensive coaches in the sport. They have Deebo and Kittle. They traded for the sport’s best left tackle. Shanahan’s scheme could make a quality running back out of a 90 year old woman. When you have all of these things, it’s easy to make a judgement on a QB’s ceiling and his future with your organization.
The Giants have NONE of these things. (Even the one good decision they made, Andrew Thomas, wasn’t great because he was perhaps the worst left tackle in the game as a rookie.) It’s makes it difficult to truly evaluate a QB. If you recognize that the way the organization drafted, supported, and built around Eli was the right way to do it, then I’m not sure how anyone could disagree even 1% with John Mara’s comment. Doesn’t mean Jones will be handed the job for even one more day, but it’s simply an acknowledgment of reality.
I still wanna see Jones behind a competent OL with an offense designed to his strengths.
I still wanna see Jones behind a competent OL with an offense designed to his strengths.
Danny's GOT to stay on the field. That's job #1, IMO. Missing time ain't gonna get it. That said, I'm hoping the new HC brings in a competent QB coach. I want him to succeed.
It is what it is. Such is life.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
You're sounding a bit conspiratorial these days.
I have little doubt that the Maras like meddling, but I've noticed a paranoid shift amongst Giant fans since Gettlemen was fired. Gettlemen went from being an incompetant blundering buffoon to being a puppet. You all wanted him fired. He gets fired. You move the goalposts.
Gettlemen was outdated and arrogant. He made many mistakes, but given his ego I don't believe that he was a mindless puppet doing the Maras' bidding. He was in full bloom love with Jones.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
I've been fighting this fight all day.
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should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
I've been fighting this fight all day.
Hmmmm. I've been away all day on a business trip. Where can I find this fight? ;)
That said, I'd push back a little for some reasons:
1) Schoen has no ties to DJ. Yeah, he sung his praises @ the presser. BFD. What does one expect him to say publicly?
2) Was Schoen THAT desperate for a gig that he'd box himself in like that? I doubt it. He seems like a smart guy. And he had option options too; Chicago was enamored with him. And if he felt DJ was being forced on him-& he had no love/feel for DJ-why not return to Buffalo? He's a young dude. There'll be opportunities down the line. This isn't DG 2.0; Gettleman was getting hired by nobody except us.
3) What Mara says publicly about Jones might be completely different what he thinks privately. Yes, I really do believe we drafted DJ because he looks like Eli & was tutored by Cutliffe. And we know how much John loves Eli. That said...I watched Eli Manning. I loved Eli Manning. Eli Manning was a favorite of mine. DJ, you're no Eli Manning. Unless Mara is a football idiot-entirely possible-or blind-also entirely possible-he can't honestly think that DJ is going to have Eli's career here.
4) All GMs want their own HC & QB. Schoen is going to get the former soon enough. He's not hitching his ride long term to Jones.
5) Off topic...the NFL Draft. I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants took a QB early, if not the first round, maybe the second round...Willis from Liberty comes to mind if he's there.
Again, I might be completely wrong. I'm praying I'm not.
Jones 1st game - ( New Window )
Now it's Daniel Jones being the Mara's prize and Gettleman just went along as the quiet yes-man in the draft room.
Good lord, you all can't help yourselves. Like a sewing-circle of women at the old folks home gossiping away and making up stories...
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No, you're missing what I'm saying.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
You're sounding a bit conspiratorial these days.
I have little doubt that the Maras like meddling, but I've noticed a paranoid shift amongst Giant fans since Gettlemen was fired. Gettlemen went from being an incompetant blundering buffoon to being a puppet. You all wanted him fired. He gets fired. You move the goalposts.
Gettlemen was outdated and arrogant. He made many mistakes, but given his ego I don't believe that he was a mindless puppet doing the Maras' bidding. He was in full bloom love with Jones.
That said, I'd push back a little for some reasons:
1) Schoen has no ties to DJ. Yeah, he sung his praises @ the presser. BFD. What does one expect him to say publicly?
2) Was Schoen THAT desperate for a gig that he'd box himself in like that? I doubt it. He seems like a smart guy. And he had option options too; Chicago was enamored with him. And if he felt DJ was being forced on him-& he had no love/feel for DJ-why not return to Buffalo? He's a young dude. There'll be opportunities down the line. This isn't DG 2.0; Gettleman was getting hired by nobody except us.
3) What Mara says publicly about Jones might be completely different what he thinks privately. Yes, I really do believe we drafted DJ because he looks like Eli & was tutored by Cutliffe. And we know how much John loves Eli. That said...I watched Eli Manning. I loved Eli Manning. Eli Manning was a favorite of mine. DJ, you're no Eli Manning. Unless Mara is a football idiot-entirely possible-or blind-also entirely possible-he can't honestly think that DJ is going to have Eli's career here.
4) All GMs want their own HC & QB. Schoen is going to get the former soon enough. He's not hitching his ride long term to Jones.
5) Off topic...the NFL Draft. I wouldn't be shocked if the Giants took a QB early, if not the first round, maybe the second round...Willis from Liberty comes to mind if he's there.
Again, I might be completely wrong. I'm praying I'm not.
All that is reasonable.
But the better, honest answer Schoen should have given is that he hadn't studied any film on Jones yet and he looks forward to that process. And he wants to hear the expert views from his HC and OC on Jones before he makes comments.
Otherwise, IMV, what he says sounded very much like a GM candidate who said exactly what Mara wanted to hear.
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Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
And when he plays like shit again the actual idiots are going to still call everyone else idiots and make excuses for Jones.
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In comment 15576253 Go Terps said:
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If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
There is no reasonable leap forward that is going to make it make sense to pay Jones a second contract.
We're talking 30-35 TDs, 25+ PPG and 10+ wins in a season where the entire roster is a mess.
22 TDs and a hope that the arrow is pointing up isn't good enough. 2022 has to be a HUGE year for it to make sense to pay Jones. Absolutely huge.
Basically, he'd have to pull a Burrow or Kenny Pickett.
@JordanRaanan
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1h
Joe Schoen and Giants backing Daniel Jones not the least bit surprising. Asked a HC, GM, OC + personnel exec about Jones in early-December. All thought he was quality starter with better supporting cast. Given Giants cap situation and need to rebuild, this is right move for now.
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In comment 15576306 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 15576253 Go Terps said:
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If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
There is no reasonable leap forward that is going to make it make sense to pay Jones a second contract.
We're talking 30-35 TDs, 25+ PPG and 10+ wins in a season where the entire roster is a mess.
22 TDs and a hope that the arrow is pointing up isn't good enough. 2022 has to be a HUGE year for it to make sense to pay Jones. Absolutely huge.
Basically, he'd have to pull a Burrow or Kenny Pickett.
Yup. In the NFL. I can't think of an example where someone went from backup level to top tier starter with paying in one season.
I'd rather just draft Pickett.
My fear is that Mara wants to win a Super Bowl with him and his family picking some (more?) of the groceries. Winning a Super Bowl with him and his family in quarantine is, at least subconsciously, the last thing they want.
Now it's Daniel Jones being the Mara's prize and Gettleman just went along as the quiet yes-man in the draft room.
Good lord, you all can't help yourselves. Like a sewing-circle of women at the old folks home gossiping away and making up stories...
This^
I read these posts and I shake my head at the crap laid out. And that goes for you too Eric. Can we please wait until at least the coaching staff is mostly assembled before we make blanket statements that support conspiracies.
What else is Mara going to say? Jones is still the QB. He was dealt a shitty hand. Despite what some buffoons say, Jones does have trade value, it may be small. If you start denigrating him it worsens trade value and if you intend to play him this year it undermines him with the team if you do not publicly support him.
I for one, do not think he is the guy because he gets hurt a lot and he does not finish drives. Why he cannot finish drives I do not know but, the shitty play calling is part of it(worst route tree in the red zone of any team in football).
Again, I do not think DJ is "The One," but Mara and Schoen cannot throw him under the bus at this point. It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever, except to satisfy the rabble-rousers of BBI.
Oh, and can anyone name one owner that does not "meddle" in their billion dollar company. Some do more than others and JM seems to have been worse than others(and has been bad at it, too). The finality of the players should be the GM.
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should be irrelevant in this new way of doing business at Jints Central. Right? The only opinions that should matter are Shoen's, the HC's and the OC's.
And I don't for one second believe Schoen has had enough time to evaluate Jones's performance. Plus, we don't have a HC yet to do the same and we don't have an OC to do the same.
I really hope Schoen was saying the "right thing" about Jones just because it's too early to say anything else.
My fear is - and JFC I hope this isn't the case - that Mara laid his cards on the table in the interview process by saying he really liked Jones and firmly believes he's got what it takes to lead this franchise. And being a shrewd listener, and wanting the job, a guy like Schoen says he likes what he's seen in Jones as well and thinks he can make it work with news coaches, new players, etc.
That's music to Mara's ears and...well...Schoen is hired.
Sound familiar?
I've been fighting this fight all day.
It sure seems Mara loves hearing what he wants to hear.
If you indicate there is doubt in your belief in Jones, it does the following:
1. Does not help his mental development this off season
2. Tips your hand to your opponents of what you may be doing on draft day
Some of you guys want your pound of flesh with Jones just like you wanted with Gettleman (he couldn't retire, we had to fire him). Any comments from management that is something other than "Jones sucks and we need a new QB" is disappointing to you.
The right move here would be to show support in Jones while simultaneously exploring all options behind closed doors to upgrade the QB position. Then, maybe we find someone and keep Jones as a solid backup. A much improved backup QB than what we had last year.
Sounds to me like John had already decided and brought in a guy who agreed.