Despite past history and those that feel Mara won't be able to let go, I really think that he realizes he just needs to get the right people in here and let them go to work.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
which is fine as long as the new regime make an honest assessment of what Jones is over the course of this upcoming season. If the GM/HC combo determine, like most nyg fans, that Jones is essentially a backup in starter's clothing, I hope the owner defers to them moving forward as they attempt to bring in the right guy to lead this franchise forward. Sentimentality for Eli was wrong, but understandable. There should be absolutely no such feeling for Jones.
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
Whether we want to argue about Schoen having power delegation on some things, it's clear Mara will not stay out of influencing decision making to a degree that we should feel uncomfortable with. That's a real problem still.
I don't see the need to throw any negativity out at this point. We are talking about someone who is well respected in the building and locker room. Doesn't mean that they also recognize he is most likely not the answer.
Agree, JS and HC will take the best course moving forward. Truthfully, having Jones and and a Vet chump is not a bad thing as 2022 should be about cleaning out the roster and getting experience for the young players and new draftees. 10 years of losing sucks, but 2022 is a good year to stink record wise while also implementing new schemes focusing on young player and draftee development. imv.
"I want Joe and the new coaches to make that evaluation."
Then he gives his opinion about Jones. Pretty measured response. And we pretty much know Jones will be here so I don't see anything to get up in arms about. The knee jerk reactions here are something.
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
if Schoen and coaching staff aren't willing to pick it up, I don't see Mara overruling them. And assuming Jones is medically cleared to play, giving him a shot to "prove it" during the 2022 season probably makes sense imo.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Seems like the conclusion has already been reached, that should tell you something
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
How would Mara have known enough about Jones before the Senior Bowl to instruct DG to fall in love with him. Makes no sense.
You're assuming Dave is telling the truth. He got caught by the media a couple of times lying directly to them. He just smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
You're assuming Dave is telling the truth. He got caught by the media a couple of times lying directly to them. He just smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
It was video of him sitting in the stands watching Jones and talking with his scouts. Do you really think that was staged or whatever.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
to screw this kid up. The offensive line has been shit, making it impossible to definitively evaluate whether he can do the job or not.
Because of people frustration so that FACT is minimized. Now he and Barkley are suppose make the OL block better with some innate ability or either slow down time for routes to develop that are outside of 3 step drops.
Now to be fair SB could run tougher and help set up managable downs on some of this years busted plays. Jones needs to stop bird-dogging (his biggest issue) and process faster.
However if the OL cant not hold up enogh to let the med and deep routes develop ou are forced to 1 read run or throwaway. His fumbles and ints went down ... ie ball security and processing info and understanding the moment.
Improvment.
SB is clearly "healthy" physically overall but not mentally right. I think he'll get his bounce/pop back but will he stop playing not to get hurt is the big question (stopping at the line and bracing himself, jumping inthe air to absorb the hit make sure no feet are planted (unable to fall forward that way))? TBD ... He needs to run angrier .... If the new RB/HC, or OC can push that right button ala Parcells he can salavaged and go on to have a very nice career.
If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.'
This is 100% true.
Saying the owners should be completely uninvolved in a decision as important as a head coaching hire (and associated contractual obligations if he doesn't work out) is just silly.
But if the owners are more than a "slight thumb on the scale" (i.e. two very equally rated candidates; owners weighs in they like candidate B over candidate A), we have a problem.
And IF the owners were involving insisting or strongly suggesting the selection of a coordinator (e.g. Garrett with his HC experience relative to Judge), that is a huge red flag.
Unless a coordinator, position coach or player has some off the field issues that could bring major embarrassment or financial risk to the team, the owners should just stay in their offices sipping their medium Pepsi.
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
I don't get why everyone is hanging on every word here?
He said he'd like to have better coaching and a better OL so that they could make a better evaluation of whether Jones is a franchise AB or not. He did not say he thinks Jones is a franchise QB based on what he's done until now. And I'll add that they need to make that determination this year before they decide whether to extend or not.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
They say Jones hasn't been given a shot because of revolving door coaches and a bad O line, but this year he will have all new coaches and the odds the line will be completely fixed are low.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
Who can watch last weekends games and say, “Jones can be that guy.” Joe Schoen coming from Josh Allen is going to hitch his wagon to Jones?
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
RE: I don't get why everyone is hanging on every word here?
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
"We do think this kid can play," was the first thing he said.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
The whole statement
Link - ( New Window )
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
Quote:
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
I think it's obvious that John believes in him for sure, but I think he's also realizing that he needs to leave that decision in the hands of Schoen and the new HC.
it sure seems like Schoen has already made that decision, which seems odd
Whether we want to argue about Schoen having power delegation on some things, it's clear Mara will not stay out of influencing decision making to a degree that we should feel uncomfortable with. That's a real problem still.
Agree, JS and HC will take the best course moving forward. Truthfully, having Jones and and a Vet chump is not a bad thing as 2022 should be about cleaning out the roster and getting experience for the young players and new draftees. 10 years of losing sucks, but 2022 is a good year to stink record wise while also implementing new schemes focusing on young player and draftee development. imv.
Then he gives his opinion about Jones. Pretty measured response. And we pretty much know Jones will be here so I don't see anything to get up in arms about. The knee jerk reactions here are something.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Zero chance either of those things is true
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
And if Jones plays well in 2022 with an improved offensive line, scheme, and better coaching, is that still an enormous problem?
Quote:
how you can watch that and come away with any other impression that the owner believes in Daniel Jones.
Don't think there's any question Mara thinks Jones can play. The question is would he overrule Schoen and HC if they come to a different conclusion. At this point, I don't think so.
Seems like the conclusion has already been reached, that should tell you something
Quote:
If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
Hopefully someone else is quarterbacking the team in 2022 though. Jones is just so bad and terrible to watch. Ugh.
And if Jones plays well in 2022 with an improved offensive line, scheme, and better coaching, is that still an enormous problem?
Define playing well.
Throwing 40 TDs and leading an offense that scores 27 PPG? Not a problem.
But, come on...
not saying I disagree, It is just unbelievable that we're still in this position.
there’s no reason to pick up the option. The 5th year option is $21.5m, there's no reason to do it, even if he breaks out and plays great we can just use the franchise tag that's not going to cost much more than the option. Why are people freaking out?
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
Quote:
Do you remember the Senior Bowl practice vids of Gettleman and the Giants' scouts. DG was having hot flashes over Jones. He was totally taken with him. I'm sure Mara approved but DG was driving the Jones pick big time.
Assuming that Gettleman wasn't just doing what he was told to do.
How would Mara have known enough about Jones before the Senior Bowl to instruct DG to fall in love with him. Makes no sense.
The last sentence is the most important. "IF he's going to be the franchise quarterback."
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
It was video of him sitting in the stands watching Jones and talking with his scouts. Do you really think that was staged or whatever.
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
If he does this is what will happen:
JS: we believe in Jones
*Drafts a qb*
Certain fans: omg Schoen lied to us! Horrible gm
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
Because of people frustration so that FACT is minimized. Now he and Barkley are suppose make the OL block better with some innate ability or either slow down time for routes to develop that are outside of 3 step drops.
Now to be fair SB could run tougher and help set up managable downs on some of this years busted plays. Jones needs to stop bird-dogging (his biggest issue) and process faster.
However if the OL cant not hold up enogh to let the med and deep routes develop ou are forced to 1 read run or throwaway. His fumbles and ints went down ... ie ball security and processing info and understanding the moment.
Improvment.
SB is clearly "healthy" physically overall but not mentally right. I think he'll get his bounce/pop back but will he stop playing not to get hurt is the big question (stopping at the line and bracing himself, jumping inthe air to absorb the hit make sure no feet are planted (unable to fall forward that way))? TBD ... He needs to run angrier .... If the new RB/HC, or OC can push that right button ala Parcells he can salavaged and go on to have a very nice career.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
This is 100% true.
Saying the owners should be completely uninvolved in a decision as important as a head coaching hire (and associated contractual obligations if he doesn't work out) is just silly.
But if the owners are more than a "slight thumb on the scale" (i.e. two very equally rated candidates; owners weighs in they like candidate B over candidate A), we have a problem.
And IF the owners were involving insisting or strongly suggesting the selection of a coordinator (e.g. Garrett with his HC experience relative to Judge), that is a huge red flag.
Unless a coordinator, position coach or player has some off the field issues that could bring major embarrassment or financial risk to the team, the owners should just stay in their offices sipping their medium Pepsi.
:-)
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
You don’t think Jones can be as good as Jimmy G? Jones is not in the class of Mahomes and Allen but Jimmy G and Stafford are not either. I’m of the camp that drafting Jones at 6 was Gettleman’s biggest mistake of a lot of mistakes; he was a 2nd round pick. But, some of the criticisms of him are the direct result of a horrible OL. He doesn’t move around the pocket. It’s hard to move when you rarely have a clean pocket. Give him a decent OL, which he’s never had, and decent receivers and decent running game and then you’ll know, I didn’t say he needs everything to be perfect.
Say Chris Mara tells his brother "We really need to draft Daniel Jones. He's another Eli."
Assume Gettleman is a yes-man who wants to please his master.
He shows up to the Senior Bowl looking for anything to justify the selection.
I don't know if this happened or not. But it's pretty clear John Mara is very high on Daniel Jones. I am going to wager his brother is too. I am also going to wager that Gettleman was not the strong voice in the room that many people think he was.
Ok Eric.
Quote:
If Jones is here past 2022 that's the sign that there is an enormous problem.
As small as the odds may be, it could also be a sign of emormous progress, on Jones' part. But it would have to be a huge leap forward.
There is no reasonable leap forward that is going to make it make sense to pay Jones a second contract.
We're talking 30-35 TDs, 25+ PPG and 10+ wins in a season where the entire roster is a mess.
22 TDs and a hope that the arrow is pointing up isn't good enough. 2022 has to be a HUGE year for it to make sense to pay Jones. Absolutely huge.
Its seems really really unlikely he can put together a season that will warrant a starting QB level contract, which is what they will have to offer to keep him moving forward.
I think the Giants will draft a QB in the first 3 rounds this year.
Why would you waste a Draft pick on a quarterback in this weak QB draft? They are going to do exactly what I said they should do - fix the OL and let Jones play to see what happens
Giants are pretty predictable. And when they come out and say what you predicted them to do, its just about a lock.
Quote:
There is a very specific type of person that Mara really likes as a player. Jones fits the bill.
But we'll see. Anyone can see that he's a bad QB. If we keep him any longer than we have to, we are screwed. And it will mean that Mara still has the power and/or Schoen is a moron.
I don't think we'll keep him past 2022, but we will see. The thought of having to watch him try to play QB for even 1 more year is bad enough. I'm feeling pretty good about the Giants right now, so I don't even want to consider having to watch him play more than that.
I think Mara was looking for Eli 2.0. And Daniel Jones fills a lot of those same boxes (humble, hard worker, good team player). My fear is that people were right and Chris Mara has much more say than I thought he did. I was arguing with people just a couple of months ago that they were over-emphasizing Chris Mara. I think I was wrong. He's been in all the HC interviews. No other Mara or Tisch aside from the two principle owners were in the room.
I keep sounding like a broken record, but the new GM and HC need to run the team. If the Maras get involved, we're not going to get better.
The best analogy I can think of is if Mara tried to handle the plumbing in his own house but now there are pipes leaking everywhere and the basement if flooded. It's time to be humble yourself and call a professional to take care of it.