I was driving to an appointment and briefly got to listen to NFL radio around 11:15 Eastern time this morning; first chance to post.
Essentially what Weis said (I couldn't jot down his exact words as I was driving) as I recall was:
| "...can't give Daniel Jones a "letter grade" yet, rather any grade on Jones must be an "Incomplete" (which is disappointing since 2021 was going to be the year to get that grade / assessment). Weis further acknowledged that some people already feel Jones is a bust, while others already feel he's shown enough in spite of the lack of support around him, to feel pretty good about Jones going forward. Weis isn't in either of those two camps right now." |
My naive hope is to just report Weis' opinion (which I agree with), rather than start another Daniel Jones pro / con mud slinging thread.
Where were we on Eli going into the 2007 season?
Sometimes it's very obvious after a full year played (see Mahomes as a positive example, Haskins as a negative one).
Josh Allen didn't look great after a full year.
RGIII looked pretty good after a full year.
With Jones, it's not the years. It's the number of games with some semblance of a supporting cast around him. Jones probably has about a 1.5 years of "real data". And that 1.5 years is an "Incomplete" to many folks.
Remember Eli’s 4 INT debacle vs the Vikings during the 2007 season? People wanted him benched then.
To his credit, Eric in the game review was a lot more measured in his reaction. Game Review: Minnesota Vikings at New York Giants, November 25, 2007 - ( New Window )
That's a bad game in 2007, one of the worst of his career, and he had everal bad games by late 2007 which is where people started to get really frustrated. No one was saying Eli didn't deserve to play any more before that stretch. He'd had many productive games already. The problem was the interceptions. By that point he was good enough to direct the offense to two playoff appearances.
To his credit, Eric in the game review was a lot more measured in his reaction. Game Review: Minnesota Vikings at New York Giants, November 25, 2007 - ( New Window )
That's a bad game in 2007, one of the worst of his career, and he had everal bad games by late 2007 which is where people started to get really frustrated. No one was saying Eli didn't deserve to play any more before that stretch. He'd had many productive games already. The problem was the interceptions. By that point he was good enough to direct the offense to two playoff appearances.
Also, there were much higher expectations for Eli, hence the criticism and frustration.
No one expected much from Jones, and he hasn't raised that bar.
We aren’t getting anyone better for next year anyway.
Quote:
But a good QB with the right pieces around him can go to and win a Superbowl. Proven just recently by Nick Foles.
DJ is never (probably) going to be an elite QB. But maybe he can be a good QB. DJ was 4-7 as a starter this season. He was not the reason the Giants lost the majority of those games. Go read Sy'56's reviews. DJ's main problem is availability.
Whatever decision Shoen and his coaching staff make regarding DJ is fine with me. Personally, I hope they bring in competition for DJ in training camp. Let the chips fall where they may.
"Maybe he can be a good QB" is such a low standard.
yes it is a low standard..
But it is an even worse operating principle. A disastrous operating principle.
It's not how you run a $5B organization. And I am sorry but Schoen is starting to feel like a stuffed shirt bureaucrat.
The issue is to advance you will need that much of a better team around them. Hard to put together a outstanding team all around. Then you have injuries. Playoffs are a different animal where teams get close in talent and it’s where you need that big game QB.
Foles was a unique situation. He had a really good team and the NFC playoffs didn’t have a great challenge. They faced Shurmer and Ponder in the NFCCG. Then BB was fighting with Kraft. Almost like BP and Kraft before the SB.
Over the weekend we saw Ryan Tannehill, a player at a level Jones can barely aspire to reaching, look like an absolutely liability to his team in a big playoff game. The goal here is to win a championship, right? What are we even talking about? It’s over.
I didn't take that as nothing.
Very few in those 3 years (mostly in his first year).
IMHO there is enough of a chance that Jones could be a decent starter to not dump him for a late round pick as soon as the trading period reopens as I think some would like to do.
But the Giants clearly need a solid "Plan B" at QB, whether by a decent quality vet backup (with starter potential) and / or at least a mid round QB in the draft.
Jones could be out of football tomorrow due to medical concerns.
Very few in those 3 years (mostly in his first year).
Burrow got sacked technically 11 times, while having to call his own plays at times, and still beat the #1 seed on the road. He’s played half the amount of games as Jones. Stop with the excuses it’s embarrassing.
The real question with Jones is whether he can process and read defenses quickly enough at this level. There are plays where he has enough time to throw and still doesn't do so. But that may at least to some extent be because he doesn't trust his OL to ever give him more than two or three seconds to throw. So even when he has more time to do so, he gets rid of the ball after one or two reads. He had the same problem at Duke because his OL was also poor. His WRs also dropped the most or second most passes of any WRs in college football that year.
The problem is that there are still too many mind boggling throws from Jones even when he does make the correct read. He also looks like a guy who needs nearly everything around him to be almost perfect to succeed. Great QBs succeed even when everything is falling apart.
The whole debate though is likely moot for 2022. Jones will have better competition, but will likely start this year. As long as the Giants don't pick up his fifth year option, I'm fine with that decision.
When has he had anything that even resembled competent around him?
Other than our LT in the last 2 seasons we have some of the worst football players in the NFL on offense.
When has he had anything that even resembled competent around him?
Other than our LT in the last 2 seasons we have some of the worst football players in the NFL on offense.
Just keep asking the question: How did the offense look without him the last 6 games??? Watch them shit their pants...
Quote:
We know what everyone’s opinion here is on Daniel Jones. Basically every poster has given up on him. There’s zero need to keep discussing it.
It’s a message board about the Giants. People are free to discuss what they want and you’re free to not click on it. Are you the BBI police?
This coming from the clown who falsely called out a poster who had inside info from the Buffalo side, claiming the poster read the info on Twitter and made up that he had inside information
But I will defend ajr's inalienable right to post the same stupid and wrong opinion on Daniel Jones 500 times per day
But many here go way overboard in their criticism.
My own hunch is that he has the potential, with a good OL and supporting cast around him, to be a solid, middle-of-the-road NFL QB.
Is he the long-term answer? I have my doubts. But unless someone better falls into our lap, what is another practical, realistic option?
To me, the jury remains out.
He's entering the final year of a cap-friendly deal. I think we can all admit that he's not and will not ever be in the upper echelon of NFL QBs. Let's be kind and say his ceiling is somewhere around 12th best.
After 2022 the options are either:
a) Franchise tag him at something north of $30 million
b) Extend him at something like $25-27 million per season
Can you win a Super Bowl between now and 2030 with Daniel Jones making that kind of money to be "pretty good". And that's optimistically assuming he can even reach that level at all, which is still questionable to begin with.
Because if you can't win the Super Bowl with Daniel Jones, there's not a single reason to continue the discussion. Ryan Tannehill, a favorite comp of Jones made by his biggest supporters is NEVER going to win a Super Bowl. EVER.
So what are we even doing here? Daniel Jones is going to play in 2022, and then what? We're going to give him a 5-year, $130 million contract to hopefully win 9 games at some point?
You either have your QB, or you don't. The Bills have their QB. The Chiefs have their QB. The Chargers and Bengals have their QB.
If the plan is to Tannehill your way to the Super Bowl, it's a stupid plan.
Tend to agree. Jones will almost certainly play better with a better OL and skill position players, but his ceiling likely isn't good enough to win a SB. Burrow, Allen, and Mahomes again reminded us that you usually need a great QB to do so.
After 35 games:
52% completions
39 TDs
42 ints
I’ve seen enough, time to move on!
Quote:
you don't have anything.
After 35 games:
52% completions
39 TDs
42 ints
I’ve seen enough, time to move on!
If this is a quarterback who played before 2011 (I'm guessing it's Simms but who knows) the comparison is irrelevant.
Quote:
In comment 15576451 Go Terps said:
Quote:
you don't have anything.
After 35 games:
52% completions
39 TDs
42 ints
I’ve seen enough, time to move on!
If this is a quarterback who played before 2011 (I'm guessing it's Simms but who knows) the comparison is irrelevant.
It is Simms! Great catch my friend, I’m impressed. Daniel’s comparison:
38 games
62.5% completion
45 tds
29 ints
Multiple HCs and OCs
World wide pandemic
Why irrelevant? The book on DJ is still incomplete.
I hope we bring competition in while still giving him a shot to put it all together with an “average” Oline and skill players that can stay healthy.
That's not life in the modern NFL. Daniel Jones is about to get way more expensive than his level of play merits, and that's going to impact how the Giants build the rest of the roster.
Any comparison to a quarterback playing before 2011 might as well be a comparison to Babe Ruth. It doesn't make sense.
Forget Giants history. Clinging to history is why the Giants are terrible. Look at Jones's peers. That KC-Buffalo game the other night - you can't bring Daniel Jones to that type of gunfight at any cost, let alone at $20M+.
And as someone that grew up idolizing Simms, Jones isn't a stain in Simms's underwear as a quarterback.
I respect your opinion, but at this point, until we see something different, the new regime is moving forward in giving him a shot. I think it’s the right move but we’ll see. I’m 48, seen it all with the Giants “Since1976.” Season ticket holder, angry, tired of what we’ve put on the field for the last 8 years. But hopeful for the new regime. Or opinions are just that, but we’ll get to see it play out this summer and fall and can revisit who was right a year from now. More than anything, I want to see progress and improvement and that includes a lot of areas other than, but including the QB play.
Quote:
In comment 15576534 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
We know what everyone’s opinion here is on Daniel Jones. Basically every poster has given up on him. There’s zero need to keep discussing it.
It’s a message board about the Giants. People are free to discuss what they want and you’re free to not click on it. Are you the BBI police?
This coming from the clown who falsely called out a poster who had inside info from the Buffalo side, claiming the poster read the info on Twitter and made up that he had inside information
But I will defend ajr's inalienable right to post the same stupid and wrong opinion on Daniel Jones 500 times per day
It really bothers you I pointed out someone was saying something that was all over Twitter for an entire day? Get a life.
Quote:
In comment 15576562 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576534 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
We know what everyone’s opinion here is on Daniel Jones. Basically every poster has given up on him. There’s zero need to keep discussing it.
It’s a message board about the Giants. People are free to discuss what they want and you’re free to not click on it. Are you the BBI police?
This coming from the clown who falsely called out a poster who had inside info from the Buffalo side, claiming the poster read the info on Twitter and made up that he had inside information
But I will defend ajr's inalienable right to post the same stupid and wrong opinion on Daniel Jones 500 times per day
It really bothers you I pointed out someone was saying something that was all over Twitter for an entire day? Get a life.
That's not what you did. You flat out called him a liar.
Don’t pass off tweets as
ajr2456 : 1/24/2022 8:37 pm : link : reply
Inside info
And it wasnt on twitter all day, it was one tweet from one person
Appropriate call-out in my view.
Good idea to change subject though.
Good idea to change subject though.
If someone is going to post something basically word for what was posted on Twitter as inside info, I’ll say I’m skeptical if they’re legit or not. People have called me a liar and that I don’t have sources, I don’t follow them around for two days.
And you two definitely are the same poster, it’s just a question of what your previous handle was before you made a new one in January 2022
Quote:
But no, U wrong.
Good idea to change subject though.
If someone is going to post something basically word for what was posted on Twitter as inside info, I’ll say I’m skeptical if they’re legit or not. People have called me a liar and that I don’t have sources, I don’t follow them around for two days.
And you two definitely are the same poster, it’s just a question of what your previous handle was before you made a new one in January 2022
Accusing someone of trying to pass off twitter info as their own is in a whole different world than saying, "I'm skeptical".
Your inability to own a simple mistake is amazingly similar to the Giants front office not wanting or willing to admit their mistakes over the years.
Good philosophy.
Stay wrong though, fits you well.
Quote:
In comment 15577543 Slowasski said:
Quote:
But no, U wrong.
Good idea to change subject though.
If someone is going to post something basically word for what was posted on Twitter as inside info, I’ll say I’m skeptical if they’re legit or not. People have called me a liar and that I don’t have sources, I don’t follow them around for two days.
And you two definitely are the same poster, it’s just a question of what your previous handle was before you made a new one in January 2022
Accusing someone of trying to pass off twitter info as their own is in a whole different world than saying, "I'm skeptical".
Your inability to own a simple mistake is amazingly similar to the Giants front office not wanting or willing to admit their mistakes over the years.
Good philosophy.
Stay wrong though, fits you well.
You’re weird and a loser.
I still think they were passing of something they saw on Twitter as inside info. Let’s see if the inside info comes to fruition.
Quote:
In comment 15577230 Since1976 said:
Quote:
In comment 15576451 Go Terps said:
Quote:
you don't have anything.
After 35 games:
52% completions
39 TDs
42 ints
I’ve seen enough, time to move on!
If this is a quarterback who played before 2011 (I'm guessing it's Simms but who knows) the comparison is irrelevant.
It is Simms! Great catch my friend, I’m impressed. Daniel’s comparison:
38 games
62.5% completion
45 tds
29 ints
Multiple HCs and OCs
World wide pandemic
Why irrelevant? The book on DJ is still incomplete.
I hope we bring competition in while still giving him a shot to put it all together with an “average” Oline and skill players that can stay healthy.
Simms played 40 years ago, that's why it's irrelevant. No CBA, not 5th year option questions, DB's allowed to bang on WR's downfield, DL allowed to beat the crap out of QB's.
Comparing Jones to Simms is akin to comparing Simms to Tuffy Leemans, who threw for 55 yards and 7 TD's in 1942. See how ridiculous that sounds?
Quote:
But no, U wrong.
Good idea to change subject though.
If someone is going to post something basically word for what was posted on Twitter as inside info, I’ll say I’m skeptical if they’re legit or not. People have called me a liar and that I don’t have sources, I don’t follow them around for two days.
And you two definitely are the same poster, it’s just a question of what your previous handle was before you made a new one in January 2022
Guess again. I've been here since the early 2000s
I dont doubt you have a buddy who works for an agent, and we appreciate the info. But dont call someone a liar for having their own inside source
You should really just stick to giving us that inside info. Your opinions really aren't good
Quote:
In comment 15577543 Slowasski said:
Quote:
But no, U wrong.
Good idea to change subject though.
If someone is going to post something basically word for what was posted on Twitter as inside info, I’ll say I’m skeptical if they’re legit or not. People have called me a liar and that I don’t have sources, I don’t follow them around for two days.
And you two definitely are the same poster, it’s just a question of what your previous handle was before you made a new one in January 2022
Guess again. I've been here since the early 2000s
I dont doubt you have a buddy who works for an agent, and we appreciate the info. But dont call someone a liar for having their own inside source
You should really just stick to giving us that inside info. Your opinions really aren't good
So what was your previous handle then? Since you made a new account this month?
You were wrong about the calling that poster a liar, and you're wrong about this. Like most of your opinions, you're wrong
If you were inactive for long enough to have to make a new account, how do you know so much about my opinions?
Like all of your opinions, you're wrong