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John Mara's Post-Press Conference Q& A (Transcript)

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 4:32 pm
Q: So what did you think?

A: I thought he (Joe Schoen) handled himself well. No surprises, just what we expected. He’s got a lot of poise and that was one of the things that attracted us to him.

Q: Poise and what else attracted you to him?

A: Well, I think the body of work. He started at the very bottom, worked his way up. His role in helping build the Buffalo Bills to where they are right now, he’s seen how it should be done. We’re in a similar situation to what they were in four or five years ago. I think all those things. I also think he has really strong communication skills and is going to be able to unite the building. The communication hasn’t been the greatest in the building over the last couple of years, and I think with (Senior Vice President and General Manager) Joe’s (Schoen) addition that’ll get straightened out.

Q: This might be splitting hairs a little, but you said the GM would hire the coach. Joe said it would be collaborative, so who really has the final say?

A: It’s a collaboration. Listen, he’s not going to hire anybody that we don’t want and we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want. But ownership always has the final approval over any decision like that. That’s just not going to change.

Q: Is it fair to say though that he has more say than the previous general managers in that regard?

A: No, I don’t think so. Our system has always been the same. We rely on the general manager. We rely on his advice, but at the end of the day, ownership has to approve it.

Q: I asked him about this, the continuity issue just to get off of this train that you guys have been on here –

A: I’m dying to get off of this train. I hate being in the position that we’re in right now. I want continuity. I want somebody who’s going to be in the building for a long period of time. I don’t want to do another one of these press conferences for many, many years. Yes, that is a big consideration.

Q: You announced when (Former Senior Vice President and General Manger) Dave (Gettleman) retired that the new GM would oversee the head coaching staff. So is it fair to say that the new coach will be reporting to Joe?

A: Yes. That is fair to say. That’s the structure that I believe in with the head coach reporting to the general manager.

Q: Could I ask you about the process? Obviously, every GM who has come in here has said that he has a process. How is Joe’s process as he’s outlined it to you going to be different?

A: I just think his vision in how to build a team combining all the analytics and sports science and how to build a staff and different roles for each person on the staff, how he wants our scouts to act, how he wants our pro personnel department to act. I just think all those things, there’s a lot of thought that went behind that. They’ve obviously had success with it in Buffalo and we need to make some changes in how we do things around here and that was one of the big reasons why we wanted to bring somebody in from the outside that can look and see what we’re doing, see what we’re doing well, see what we’re doing poorly at and just change things to a point where everybody’s on the same page moving forward.

Q: Obviously a new GM and a new coach, those are big changes, but do you think deeper changes are needed, like more of a shakeup within the organization?

A: I think I’m going to let Joe take a look. He’s only been here for a few days. As he said, he wants to evaluate everybody. I’d like to see him do that. I think you could see some additions to our staff at some point in time, but that’ll be his call and I think he’ll do that after he’s had the chance to really evaluate more people in the building.

Q: You’ve been in all the interviews for the head coaches. First of all, is Joe really the point man for that?

A: He is. I told him that I want him to take the lead in that. You outline it any way you want. I’m going to ask questions from time to time, which I have, as has (Senior Vice President, Player Personnel) Chris (Mara), as has (Chairman and Executive Vice President) Steve (Tisch), but Joe is taking the lead in those interviews.

Q: And the two Buffalo guys, I mean, he knows them quite well.

A: Yes, he does.

Q: Is it hard to think that one of those guys could be very likely the favorite as a head coach?

A: Listen, I feel very good about the candidates that we have. I’m not going to call anybody the favorite right now.

Q: You mentioned the candidates, are they the only candidates or are there others?

A: I would say we’re concentrating on the ones that we have right now. I’m not going to rule out the possibility of somebody else entering into the mix, but right now I think we’re pretty comfortable with the group that we have.

Q: Did you offer a timetable at all to try to get this done with a coach?

A: I want to make sure that we get it right as opposed to giving you a specific timetable. But I would hope that by the beginning of next week we will have made a decision.

Q: What timeline of expectations have you talked to Joe Schoen about for winning? Are you looking at this as a process long-term?

A: I’m looking at this as a process. I haven’t told him, ‘Joe, we better make the playoffs next year, otherwise you’re out of here.’ I’m not making any statements like that. I want him to build the thing the right way and give us a chance for sustained success. I’m not giving him any specific demands for next year. Just build the team the right way.

Q: And you don’t expect a quick turnaround? You just want this thing –

A: I expect us to be a heck of lot better than four wins next year, but again, I haven’t given him any specific number that he has to achieve. Get the right coach, build the right program and let’s see some progress at the end of the season.

Q: You mentioned the coach and GM needing to be on the same page with communication and having a working relationship. One of the candidates you’re interviewing (Former Dolphins Head Coach), Brian Flores, reportedly had a power struggle with his GM in Miami. He wanted more power. What is your comfort level with that, and will there be some hard questions?

A: That’s certainly one of the things that we’re going to ask Brian. I discussed it with him briefly when I spoke to him a week ago, but we’re going to spend some time on that when he comes in tomorrow.

Q: What did you say? What did he say in his response?

A: I’m not going to go into that. It’s obviously something that we’re going to have to discuss.

Q: When you hear (Pro Football Hall of Famer) Bill Parcells said that this was the best job in the league, did that resonate with you at all?

A: It does, it does, because a lot of you out there think it’s one of the poorest jobs in the league and I get that from the turnover we’ve had recently. But I think Bill knows that we treat people the right way and I think he knows how badly we want to win. I think that’s what was behind that statement. There was no shortage of interest in this job, let me put it that way.

Q: The NFL currently only has one black head coach, and the Giants have never had one. I’m curious if that weighs on you as you’re making the decision.

A: It’s certainly something I’m aware of. At the end of the day, we want to get the right person and I think we have a good, diverse group of candidates right now. We’ll make a decision based on who we think is going to be the best person to lead us in the future. It was very important that we have a diverse group of candidates.

Q: (General Manager) Joe (Schoen) seems to have really strong support for (Quarterback) Daniel Jones, talking about building the offense around him. Is that a reflection of the entire organizational support for him even after last year and the injuries and everything else?

A: I want Joe and the new head coach to make that evaluation. We do feel that Daniel can play. We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up since he’s been here. We keep changing coaches, keep changing offensive coordinators, keep changing offensive line coaches. I take a lot of responsibility for that, but let’s bring in the right group of coaches now and give him some continuity and try to rebuild the offensive line and then be able to make an intelligent evaluation of whether he can be the franchise quarterback or not. I have a lot of hope in Daniel, and I know how badly he wants it. I know how the players feel about him. We are certainly not giving up on him by any stretch of the imagination.

Q: Joe (Schoen) kept using the word ‘lockstep,’ him and the head coach being in lockstep. We haven’t talked to Steve (Tisch) in a while. I’m just curious, are you guys in lockstep? What’s that relationship like?

A: Steve and I have a great relationship. We talk all the time. We are in lockstep. We were both very high on Joe from the very beginning since that first interview we did, and we’ve been in agreement on every candidate so far. Our relationship is better than ever.

Q: You mentioned you’ve talked to Brian Flores. Reports said that you reached out to him. I’m curious what the purpose was for that?

A: I reached out to him because he was on…all the candidates that we interviewed for General Manager, he was on each of their lists. I see he’s been interviewing elsewhere, I just wanted to let him know that before you make a decision, just know that we have interest in you. Make whatever decision you feel like you need to make for you and your family, but just know that we do have interest in you. Once I get the general manager search done, we will be back to you, so that was the purpose of that call.

Q: I know you don’t get involved in personnel decisions unless there’s a legal situation, you said that on your Zoom a couple of weeks ago. I know there’s a lot of decisions that need to be made at quarterback. Could you rule in or rule out potentially trading for (Texans Quarterback) Deshaun Watson given his sexual assault allegations?

A: We’re not trading for Deshaun Watson.

Q: Why not?

A: There’s so many reasons why we wouldn’t do that. Cap-wise, we couldn’t afford it. But more importantly, with the allegations that are out there right now, that’s just not the right fit for us.

Q: You said you keep lists all the time, how long was Joe on your radar?

A: Honestly, not until fairly recently, and I started doing a lot of research I would say six or eight weeks ago, maybe a little longer. Just looking at the different teams that I have a great deal of respect for and looking at their personnel and Buffalo has done it the right way. So, I started making calls about Joe and others. I’m still trying to find somebody out there that will say something negative about him, and I have not found that yet. Everybody I’ve talked to about him raves about his work ethic, his evaluation skills, his communication skills. All those things that we’ve said before were really impressive.
well, there it is... Schoen does NOT have more control  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 4:35 pm : link
Q: This might be splitting hairs a little, but you said the GM would hire the coach. Joe said it would be collaborative, so who really has the final say?

A: It’s a collaboration. Listen, he’s not going to hire anybody that we don’t want and we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want. But ownership always has the final approval over any decision like that. That’s just not going to change.

Q: Is it fair to say though that he has more say than the previous general managers in that regard?

A: No, I don’t think so. Our system has always been the same. We rely on the general manager. We rely on his advice, but at the end of the day, ownership has to approve it.
But Eric didn't Mara say at his last presser  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 4:39 pm : link
Ownership goes with what the GM says/wants like 99.9% of the time?
RE: But Eric didn't Mara say at his last presser  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 4:40 pm : link
In comment 15576518 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Ownership goes with what the GM says/wants like 99.9% of the time?


I don't know if he said that or not. But he just made it clear that the GM is going to provide his recommendation, but he will not have the final say.
Now go away John K. Mara  
LoveFootball : 1/26/2022 4:41 pm : link
For a long time
RE: well, there it is... Schoen does NOT have more control  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15576511 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Q: This might be splitting hairs a little, but you said the GM would hire the coach. Joe said it would be collaborative, so who really has the final say?

A: It’s a collaboration. Listen, he’s not going to hire anybody that we don’t want and we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want. But ownership always has the final approval over any decision like that. That’s just not going to change.

Q: Is it fair to say though that he has more say than the previous general managers in that regard?

A: No, I don’t think so. Our system has always been the same. We rely on the general manager. We rely on his advice, but at the end of the day, ownership has to approve it.


Just noted this on another thread but there really isn't anything unreasonable with what Mara said above.

You may be completely wary of him and his judgment based on the past. But Mara wants the GM to lead the process and recommend a good coach, and he wants to approve it.
RE: RE: But Eric didn't Mara say at his last presser  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/26/2022 4:51 pm : link
In comment 15576520 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576518 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Ownership goes with what the GM says/wants like 99.9% of the time?



I don't know if he said that or not. But he just made it clear that the GM is going to provide his recommendation, but he will not have the final say.


yes -- he (Mara) did use that 99% of the time statement
Good interview  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/26/2022 4:52 pm : link
Mara is really pissed at the perception of the organization being a bad place to work.

Chris is still going to be involved. How much is TBD.

Jones will be given a chance, I think JM genuinely believes he as been given a terrible set of circumstances which is a fair assessment. I also think the new staff will move on if they want to.

I think Flores interview is very big. This is who I think Mara will want if JS likes him. Don't discount that question about never having a black HC (he's on the committee). Mara won't hire him for that but JS better convince him why Daboll or someone else is the better HC if Flores impresses imv.
frustrating to even listen to this no nothing speak  
bluetothegrave : 1/26/2022 4:55 pm : link
Why would ownership have the final say here? They have gotten it wrong time and time again. I would have loved to see nastier questions. "john you said that's just how it is with ownership having the final say" " dont you think you should trust the guy you hired and stay out of things considering your team is the laughing stock of the league due largely in part to your decision making" ?
Mara  
Les in TO : 1/26/2022 5:03 pm : link
Is a Jerry Jones like meddler in sheep’s clothing. Concerned that the same guy who approved McAdoo Shurmur and Judge thinks he can get it right on the fourth time. Just let Schoen do his thing and focus your attention on better fan appreciation events than giving a family of four one medium Pepsi.
John was upset for a week and went right back  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/26/2022 5:07 pm : link
To being himself.

Giants will never be a team that just lets the football people do the work.
NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:17 pm : link
the goal posts keep moving.

We were led to believe that Schoen would run the show. Fans who defend the Giants regardless of how bad they've become jumped all over this.

Now the argument has shifted to, "well, he's the owner, what do you expect?"

The Maras don't know what they are doing. They are not good at this. They need to let the professionals handle the football operations.
Literally they were saying you got what you wanted  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/26/2022 5:21 pm : link
. Now the argument changes.
RE: RE: But Eric didn't Mara say at his last presser  
paesan98 : 1/26/2022 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15576520 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576518 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Ownership goes with what the GM says/wants like 99.9% of the time?



I don't know if he said that or not. But he just made it clear that the GM is going to provide his recommendation, but he will not have the final say.


I do remember the 99% quote. And nothing John said indicates that ownwership will be making the decision. From everything that Mara's said, ownership only intervenes when there is a legal/moral issue with the candidate, otherwise it's a rubber stamp. John and Steve might ask questions about candidates, but that would just seem to be prudent if they are less familiar with a candidate than the GM.
RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15576598 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the goal posts keep moving.

We were led to believe that Schoen would run the show. Fans who defend the Giants regardless of how bad they've become jumped all over this.

Now the argument has shifted to, "well, he's the owner, what do you expect?"

The Maras don't know what they are doing. They are not good at this. They need to let the professionals handle the football operations.


I don't defend the Giants blindly, nor did I say what do you expect.

Schoen is running the show on hiring the new Head Coach. He will collaborate with Mara/Tisch and get his choice approved.
Mara also said...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/26/2022 5:32 pm : link
..."we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want."

He writes the checks so he gets to make these statements.
He may simply be saving a bit of face because he knows that the team is what it is with him at the wheel.

Hopefully his part of the collaboration consists mostly of "Joe, if you say so..."
NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:36 pm : link
Is Schoen running the show? TBD.
I don't care what Mara says  
PatersonPlank : 1/26/2022 5:37 pm : link
I don't care what Schoen says
I don't care what the new HC says
I don't care what management says about Jones
I don't care what management says about any players

The proof will be in the results. I have adopted a strictly "show me" attitude. In the past people were excited about Judge, about BigMac, about the "asst coach of the year" Shurmur. It doesn't matter, its just all talk until it isn't
This is an honest q&a.  
Festina Lente : 1/26/2022 5:37 pm : link
I am deeply concerned with both their belief in Daniel Jones and the overall tone of the direction this is going. Lots of talk about players being good people. I thought we'd have gotten past the boy scout philosophy that hamstrung us in the past.

Also they only starting doing more researxh 8 weeks ago even thin they knew DG was retiring from so much earlier? Wtf

Lastly Joe saying everyone is staying on until he can prove that they aren't good enough? How many of his people is Joe bringing in?
RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 5:38 pm : link
In comment 15576615 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Is Schoen running the show? TBD.


Mara has said it twice now, and Schoen has now said it.

What is to be determined?
It would be idiotic  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/26/2022 5:39 pm : link
for the owner and the GM not to agree on the HC. Talk about setting the GM up for failure. It is a decision-making process where they work toward consensus.
Ugh  
Trainmaster : 1/26/2022 5:40 pm : link
"(Senior Vice President and General Manager) Joe’s (Schoen)"

If the parenthetical is from the Giants, that seems to indicate Schoen will have the same title as Gettleman and likely Chris Mara will retain his Senior VP title. So much for my hope that Schoen would be President of Football Operations and GM or something like that.

So the $64,000 question is whether the org chart will show (and what the reality will be regardless) of whether much of the staff (Dir of College Scouting etc) will report to Chris Mara, to Schoen or some nightmare dual reporting structure.

The contents of the parentheses are ruining my day.

RE: RE: NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15576620 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 15576615 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Is Schoen running the show? TBD.



Mara has said it twice now, and Schoen has now said it.

What is to be determined?


No. Schoen just said it would be a collaborative effort and he was just one voice in the room. Mara just said Schoen does not have the authority to hire the next head coach without Mara's permission.

Mara also just suggested that Daniel Jones will be on the 2022 team.

We have yet to see if Schoen will be able to restructure parts of the organization that have grown stale. (See Mara's response above - he punted on that one).
RE: It would be idiotic  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:43 pm : link
In comment 15576621 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
for the owner and the GM not to agree on the HC. Talk about setting the GM up for failure. It is a decision-making process where they work toward consensus.


Perhaps. But Mara picked the last two GMs that have been fired and the last 4 HCs who have been fired. Maybe he should stay out of it.

Or perhaps you like the Giants being the worst team in the NFL?
RE: RE: RE: But Eric didn't Mara say at his last presser  
ron mexico : 1/26/2022 5:43 pm : link
In comment 15576550 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 15576520 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15576518 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Ownership goes with what the GM says/wants like 99.9% of the time?



I don't know if he said that or not. But he just made it clear that the GM is going to provide his recommendation, but he will not have the final say.



yes -- he (Mara) did use that 99% of the time statement


Mara said that when the GM and HC are in alignment, he will approve 99.9% of the time.

When they are not in alignment, he is the tiebreaker.
Every owner in the league and in the world is involved just like Mara  
BillT : 1/26/2022 5:44 pm : link
That's what owners do. That's why they're called owners. Of course he has final approval of Schoen's decision on a coach. How could anyone think he wouldn't. We're talking about the 2nd most important position in the organization. In fact, I'd be really worried if he didn't have to approve it. What would that say about the organization. The Giants would be the only business in the world where ownership didn't have to give an approval on this important of a decision. Is that what you really want.
RE: Every owner in the league and in the world is involved just like Mara  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:45 pm : link
In comment 15576631 BillT said:
Quote:
That's what owners do. That's why they're called owners. Of course he has final approval of Schoen's decision on a coach. How could anyone think he wouldn't. We're talking about the 2nd most important position in the organization. In fact, I'd be really worried if he didn't have to approve it. What would that say about the organization. The Giants would be the only business in the world where ownership didn't have to give an approval on this important of a decision. Is that what you really want.


Except Mara has become Daniel Snyder.
So nothing has changed  
US1 Giants : 1/26/2022 5:48 pm : link
except the name of figuerehead that the Giants hire.
RE: RE: It would be idiotic  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/26/2022 5:48 pm : link
In comment 15576627 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576621 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:


Quote:


for the owner and the GM not to agree on the HC. Talk about setting the GM up for failure. It is a decision-making process where they work toward consensus.



Perhaps. But Mara picked the last two GMs that have been fired and the last 4 HCs who have been fired. Maybe he should stay out of it.

Or perhaps you like the Giants being the worst team in the NFL?
Yeah Eric, I like the Giants being the worst team in the NFL. Part of the reason I have supported this site for years. Sheesh.
RE: I don't care what Mara says  
Dinger : 1/26/2022 5:50 pm : link
In comment 15576618 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I don't care what Schoen says
I don't care what the new HC says
I don't care what management says about Jones
I don't care what management says about any players

The proof will be in the results. I have adopted a strictly "show me" attitude. In the past people were excited about Judge, about BigMac, about the "asst coach of the year" Shurmur. It doesn't matter, its just all talk until it isn't


Talk about lockstep. PP I'm in LOCKSTEP with YOU on THIS. Shut up and show us some wins. I don't care how you get there(well maybe a little), but win some fing games. Schoen Mara and Tisch could all be saying the EXACT perfect thing I want to hear, but its all Bull til they start winning.
John Mara Needs To Be George Costanza  
Trainmaster : 1/26/2022 5:50 pm : link
He's so consistently wrong, it should be easy to do 100% the opposite of what his instincts are telling him.

RE: RE: Every owner in the league and in the world is involved just like Mara  
BillT : 1/26/2022 5:50 pm : link
In comment 15576633 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576631 BillT said:


Quote:


That's what owners do. That's why they're called owners. Of course he has final approval of Schoen's decision on a coach. How could anyone think he wouldn't. We're talking about the 2nd most important position in the organization. In fact, I'd be really worried if he didn't have to approve it. What would that say about the organization. The Giants would be the only business in the world where ownership didn't have to give an approval on this important of a decision. Is that what you really want.



Except Mara has become Daniel Snyder.

I still want the organization to function like an organization. Not having the owner take an owners role in this makes no sense.
BillT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 5:52 pm : link
George Young once said, "Owners own, managers manage, and coaches coach."

You can own a team without sticking your nose into football operations, especially if you have no talent for it.

Mara gets everything wrong. I'm not joking. He'd be better off flipping a coin.
Have been extremely critical of Mara  
Giantfan in skinland : 1/26/2022 5:59 pm : link
and my eyes go into a permanent roll any time I hear him speak lately....

BUT

I found this to be an encouraging answer.

Quote:

Q: Could I ask you about the process? Obviously, every GM who has come in here has said that he has a process. How is Joe’s process as he’s outlined it to you going to be different?

A: I just think his vision in how to build a team combining all the analytics and sports science and how to build a staff and different roles for each person on the staff, how he wants our scouts to act, how he wants our pro personnel department to act. I just think all those things, there’s a lot of thought that went behind that. They’ve obviously had success with it in Buffalo and we need to make some changes in how we do things around here and that was one of the big reasons why we wanted to bring somebody in from the outside that can look and see what we’re doing, see what we’re doing well, see what we’re doing poorly at and just change things to a point where everybody’s on the same page moving forward.


Trying to read between the lines there a bit, you have to imagine that part of what sold Mara on Schoen was the vision he articulated for those areas....areas where so many of us have been DESPERATE to see the Giants evolve. I don't know if this guy is the right guy or the wrong guy....but if nothing else, hearing those words from Mara is progress.
RE: RE: RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15576625 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576620 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


In comment 15576615 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Is Schoen running the show? TBD.



Mara has said it twice now, and Schoen has now said it.

What is to be determined?



No. Schoen just said it would be a collaborative effort and he was just one voice in the room. Mara just said Schoen does not have the authority to hire the next head coach without Mara's permission.



You're minimizing Schoen for whatever your reasons. Both Mara and Schoen have said that Joe is leading the process to find the new Head Coach.

After the interviews, Schoen will come together with the Owners, recommend his hire and look for the owners to sign off on it. If they express an area of concern or difference, then it will be up to Schoen to clear it if he ultimately expects owner approval.

That is running the show, and not uncommon when hiring a pretty high-level person in an organization.

Eric honestly I think your going overboard a bit here  
blueblood : 1/26/2022 6:03 pm : link
We all understand how bad a football team the New York Giants have become we also understand that John Mara has made some horrible decisions we get that. But to me it seems unrealistic that he’s going to give a brand-new general manager complete and total say over who becomes the head coach and then pay that person millions of dollars a year and expect him as the owner to have no input whatsoever? That seems a little ridiculous.

Obviously the two owners are gonna have to sign off on any head coach.
RE: BillT  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15576649 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
George Young once said, "Owners own, managers manage, and coaches coach."

You can own a team without sticking your nose into football operations, especially if you have no talent for it.

Mara gets everything wrong. I'm not joking. He'd be better off flipping a coin.

Then we have no hope because he hired Schoen. Better pack it in for the next ten years or so. And BTW what Mara is doing is part of "Owners own."
RE: I think your going overboard a bit here  
Trainmaster : 1/26/2022 6:07 pm : link
I don't agree.

You can argue not only the 2007 Super Bowl win but also the 2011 Super Bowl win was based on "core talent" put in place by Accorsi and early Coughlin while Wellington was still alive.

2012 - 2021 is all on John Mara, Steve Tisch and Chris Mara. They are the constant during that dreadful time period. Hearing they are involved gives many Giants fans PTSD. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
RE: BillT  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:08 pm : link
In comment 15576649 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
George Young once said, "Owners own, managers manage, and coaches coach."

You can own a team without sticking your nose into football operations, especially if you have no talent for it.

Mara gets everything wrong. I'm not joking. He'd be better off flipping a coin.

And George Young did with Wellington exactly what Schoen os doing with JM. Wellington had final approval of coaches and I believe agreed to have Young as GM. Roselle got Wellington to agree to that.
Owning and meddling are not a package deal  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/26/2022 6:11 pm : link
You can own a team and have the awareness to step back and trust your paid professionals. It's perfectly fine and rational to expect a gm to involve an owner for major signings that involve big money. At what point is it any different from Jerry Jones?

If you liked Schoen enough to hire him, then trust him to pick the head coach. Mara is flat out saying "not if I don't like it".


Kraft with very few exceptions leaves Belichick alone to do the work.
RE: Have been extremely critical of Mara  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 6:12 pm : link
In comment 15576656 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
and my eyes go into a permanent roll any time I hear him speak lately....

BUT

I found this to be an encouraging answer.


A: I just think his vision in how to build a team combining all the analytics and sports science and how to build a staff and different roles for each person on the staff, how he wants our scouts to act, how he wants our pro personnel department to act. I just think all those things, there’s a lot of thought that went behind that. They’ve obviously had success with it in Buffalo and we need to make some changes in how we do things around here and that was one of the big reasons why we wanted to bring somebody in from the outside that can look and see what we’re doing, see what we’re doing well, see what we’re doing poorly at and just change things to a point where everybody’s on the same page moving forward.



Sounds to me like Mara wants Schoen to restructure parts of the organization that have grown stale.

A follow up question needed to be asked when  
Blue Dream : 1/26/2022 6:12 pm : link
Mara said that ownership has always has final say over hiring because that isn't true. George Young had that power specifically written into his contract.
NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:18 pm : link
watch the WFAN interview and listen to Schoen's answer on the question asked by Tierney. Schoen makes it clear while he doesn't expect a major disagreement, Mara has final say. "He owns the team," he responded.
Giants GM Joe Schoen Talks Culture, Daniel Jones, Draft, & More | Tiki & Tierney [Full Interview] - ( New Window )
RE: Eric honestly I think your going overboard a bit here  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:19 pm : link
In comment 15576659 blueblood said:
Quote:
We all understand how bad a football team the New York Giants have become we also understand that John Mara has made some horrible decisions we get that. But to me it seems unrealistic that he’s going to give a brand-new general manager complete and total say over who becomes the head coach and then pay that person millions of dollars a year and expect him as the owner to have no input whatsoever? That seems a little ridiculous.

Obviously the two owners are gonna have to sign off on any head coach.


If ownership overrides the GM, nothing is going to change. And you and I will be having the same conversation in two years.
RE: RE: BillT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:20 pm : link
In comment 15576661 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15576649 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


George Young once said, "Owners own, managers manage, and coaches coach."

You can own a team without sticking your nose into football operations, especially if you have no talent for it.

Mara gets everything wrong. I'm not joking. He'd be better off flipping a coin.


Then we have no hope because he hired Schoen. Better pack it in for the next ten years or so. And BTW what Mara is doing is part of "Owners own."


We may not have hope. He may not have picked the right guy. Hopefully he finally did something right.
Amazing to me that people  
LS : 1/26/2022 6:20 pm : link
think long time owners of any team would hire a first time GM, and then give him complete control over the team. All hiring/firing decisions and let him spend money any way he sees fit. It's ludicrous. Of course they are going to work as a team.
RE: RE: BillT  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:21 pm : link
In comment 15576666 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15576649 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


George Young once said, "Owners own, managers manage, and coaches coach."

You can own a team without sticking your nose into football operations, especially if you have no talent for it.

Mara gets everything wrong. I'm not joking. He'd be better off flipping a coin.


And George Young did with Wellington exactly what Schoen os doing with JM. Wellington had final approval of coaches and I believe agreed to have Young as GM. Roselle got Wellington to agree to that.


So far John has been dumber than his father. And Wellington admitted to screwing things up in the 1960s and 1970s.
RE: Amazing to me that people  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15576684 LS said:
Quote:
think long time owners of any team would hire a first time GM, and then give him complete control over the team. All hiring/firing decisions and let him spend money any way he sees fit. It's ludicrous. Of course they are going to work as a team.


What if the owners are morons?
Mara already said  
Chris684 : 1/26/2022 6:23 pm : link
That his GM picks the Head Coach and it is approved 99% of the time.

He cited conduct issues as one reason this might happen.
RE: Mara already said  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15576693 Chris684 said:
Quote:
That his GM picks the Head Coach and it is approved 99% of the time.

He cited conduct issues as one reason this might happen.


Schoen just said that the owner has final say.
RE: RE: Eric honestly I think your going overboard a bit here  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:27 pm : link
In comment 15576681 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576659 blueblood said:


Quote:


We all understand how bad a football team the New York Giants have become we also understand that John Mara has made some horrible decisions we get that. But to me it seems unrealistic that he’s going to give a brand-new general manager complete and total say over who becomes the head coach and then pay that person millions of dollars a year and expect him as the owner to have no input whatsoever? That seems a little ridiculous.

Obviously the two owners are gonna have to sign off on any head coach.



If ownership overrides the GM, nothing is going to change. And you and I will be having the same conversation in two years.

Who said anything about overriding. It's final approval and Mara said he approves 99% of what is put in front of him. I get it and Mara's approach in hiring DG was a big mistake. He didn't do the same thing this time around did he? You're going to far in thinking that because he is "involved" he's making the decision. Those are not the same things.
RE: RE: Mara already said  
Chris684 : 1/26/2022 6:28 pm : link
In comment 15576696 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576693 Chris684 said:


Quote:


That his GM picks the Head Coach and it is approved 99% of the time.

He cited conduct issues as one reason this might happen.



Schoen just said that the owner has final say.


Are we saying the same thing though, I dunno?

Is it not correct that if Joe Schoen says this is the Head Coach we’re going to hire, Mara says ok Joe and that’s that?

Seems like that’s the case unless Schoen said we’re going to go with Payton coming off of bountygate or something rare. Or maybe if Schoen says I talked to Harbaugh and he wants $120 million for 10 years but that’s who I recommend.
The worst part of this is that they feel good about the HC candidates  
Blue The Dog : 1/26/2022 6:33 pm : link
Other than Daboll, this is a really uninspiring list of candidates. The best of the rest is Flores, and he couldn't find a competent OC either. He had 3 OCs during his time.
Look  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:35 pm : link
guys... Tierney put Schoen on the spot.

He asked, "What if you want one coach and Mara wants another? Who has final say on that?"

Schoen said he didn't think that would be a problem but the question clearly made him uncomfortable.

Tierney didn't drop it. He said, "What if you pound the table and say this should be the guy and Mara says no?"

At that point Schoen said it was his job to try convince Mara, but at the end of the day, Mara owns the team.

I'm telling you that if I were Mara and I screwed up this franchise for 10 years, I would bow out and let the professionals run it. He either trusts Schoen or he doesn't.

If you guys want Mara to run the team, you and I are not going to agree.
RE: Mara already said  
Jim in Tampa : 1/26/2022 6:35 pm : link
In comment 15576693 Chris684 said:
Quote:
That his GM picks the Head Coach and it is approved 99% of the time.

He cited conduct issues as one reason this might happen.

I don't think that's what Mara said.

I believe the question posed to Mara (in his presser prior to the GM hiring process) was about decisions on draft choices and players. Mara said if the GM and the HC are in agreement and they come to him it's approved 99% of the time.

I don't remember any question about the GM choosing the HC and Mara approving that choice 99% of the time. That doesn't make any sense.
just to play devils advocate  
CGiants07 : 1/26/2022 6:40 pm : link
but don't all owners have a say on big decisions whin there teams?
RE: Look  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:42 pm : link
In comment 15576725 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
guys... Tierney put Schoen on the spot.

He asked, "What if you want one coach and Mara wants another? Who has final say on that?"

Schoen said he didn't think that would be a problem but the question clearly made him uncomfortable.

Tierney didn't drop it. He said, "What if you pound the table and say this should be the guy and Mara says no?"

At that point Schoen said it was his job to try convince Mara, but at the end of the day, Mara owns the team.

I'm telling you that if I were Mara and I screwed up this franchise for 10 years, I would bow out and let the professionals run it. He either trusts Schoen or he doesn't.

If you guys want Mara to run the team, you and I are not going to agree.

All fair Eric and I agree with you but that is speculation on something that hasn't happened. He's speculating a worst case scenario. In that kind of process you hopefully don't get to an either/or.
RE: just to play devils advocate  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:43 pm : link
In comment 15576741 CGiants07 said:
Quote:
but don't all owners have a say on big decisions whin there teams?

Yes. As does every business owner in the world.
RE: Look  
Jim in Tampa : 1/26/2022 6:43 pm : link
In comment 15576725 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
guys... Tierney put Schoen on the spot.

He asked, "What if you want one coach and Mara wants another? Who has final say on that?"

Schoen said he didn't think that would be a problem but the question clearly made him uncomfortable.

Tierney didn't drop it. He said, "What if you pound the table and say this should be the guy and Mara says no?"

At that point Schoen said it was his job to try convince Mara, but at the end of the day, Mara owns the team.

I'm telling you that if I were Mara and I screwed up this franchise for 10 years, I would bow out and let the professionals run it. He either trusts Schoen or he doesn't.

If you guys want Mara to run the team, you and I are not going to agree.

On the one hand it would be nice if Mara bowed out. On the other hand, when it comes to choosing a HC, if Schoen’s #1 priority for a HC is, “getting someone I can work with” (as he said twice today) then Schoen runs the risk of being blind to more experienced, and perhaps more qualified candidates like Flores. In which case, maybe Mara influencing the HC choice might not be a bad thing.
RE: just to play devils advocate  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:44 pm : link
In comment 15576741 CGiants07 said:
Quote:
but don't all owners have a say on big decisions whin there teams?


Of course. And many times it fails spectacularly like the Giants.

I made the analogy in another thread. Mara tried to do his own plumbing. Now the basement is flooded. It's time to admit defeat, step aside, and hire a pro.
Jim in Tampa  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:45 pm : link
If John Mara is not going to go with Schoen's pick for HC, then he hired the wrong GM.
RE: Jim in Tampa  
BillT : 1/26/2022 6:51 pm : link
In comment 15576759 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If John Mara is not going to go with Schoen's pick for HC, then he hired the wrong GM.

I'd agree with that but would give odds nothing like that is going to happen.
RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 6:54 pm : link
In comment 15576680 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
watch the WFAN interview and listen to Schoen's answer on the question asked by Tierney. Schoen makes it clear while he doesn't expect a major disagreement, Mara has final say. "He owns the team," he responded. Giants GM Joe Schoen Talks Culture, Daniel Jones, Draft, & More | Tiki & Tierney [Full Interview] - ( New Window )


I did watch it and it is consistent with what I posted above. If Schoen runs an effective process, clears any differences, the owners will approve his choice. And Schoen even says he expects it to happen.

Not being happy with the team and Mara for the last decade is completely understandable. He/They deserve little no benefit of the doubt.

Suggesting Mara cannot and should not sign off on the GM's choice here sounds more like your airing your grievances than anything substantive.


NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 7:07 pm : link
I think I'm being clear here. Mara should do what Schoen wants.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 7:10 pm : link
In an ideal world-considering the past decade-Mara would just hand the baton to Schoen & let him run the show 100%. But this isn't an ideal world. Let's just hope that what Mara said-ownership goes along with what the GM argues for 99%-is truthful.

We're sorta fucked aren't we otherwise? Haha. Nothing any of us say or do is going to make the Maras sell their stake in the franchise.
RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15576814 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think I'm being clear here. Mara should do what Schoen wants.


Sounds like Schoen expects that very same thing to happen as well.

So we seem to have finally agreed here.
Eric if you hired a GM for BBI would you not  
gtt350 : 1/26/2022 7:16 pm : link
have final say on any decision?
RE: Eric if you hired a GM for BBI would you not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 7:18 pm : link
In comment 15576839 gtt350 said:
Quote:
have final say on any decision?


I already answered this above.

I said if I had John's track record, I'd stay out of it.

You either trust your new GM or you don't. There is no middle ground here.
RE: RE: NYGgolfer  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15576825 NYGgolfer said:
Quote:
In comment 15576814 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think I'm being clear here. Mara should do what Schoen wants.



Sounds like Schoen expects that very same thing to happen as well.

So we seem to have finally agreed here.


The worst case scenario is that Schoen doesn't know what he signed up for yet.

Again, much of this is speculative.

But there were tons of comments by the owner and new GM today that clearly clarify that Schoen doesn't have full autonomy. Just a couple of days ago, everyone was convinced he did.
RE: RE: RE: NYGgolfer  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 7:40 pm : link
In comment 15576849 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576825 NYGgolfer said:


Quote:


In comment 15576814 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think I'm being clear here. Mara should do what Schoen wants.



Sounds like Schoen expects that very same thing to happen as well.

So we seem to have finally agreed here.



The worst case scenario is that Schoen doesn't know what he signed up for yet.

Again, much of this is speculative.

But there were tons of comments by the owner and new GM today that clearly clarify that Schoen doesn't have full autonomy. Just a couple of days ago, everyone was convinced he did.


Mara went on record a week or so ago indicating that he stills signs off on key personnel decisions that the GM or GM/HC want to make. Don't you recall that comment?

Why are suggesting there is this change of heart all of a sudden? Again, this sounds more like you airing grievances than anything substantive.
If the Giants were a publicly held company, the board  
Lowell : 1/26/2022 8:29 pm : link
would have removed Mara long ago. When the CEO runs the company into the ground, he goes.

There would also have been the possibility of a hostile takeover during the past few years when the stockholders became disgusted with the way the company was being run..

Schoen should have been asked what the role of the Pegulas was in Buffalo. Did they also insist on final say so?
Nothing has changed  
WillVAB : 1/27/2022 1:01 am : link
And if Schoen doesn’t grow some balls very soon he’ll be looking for another job in 3-4 years.
Lets "really" play Devil's advocate here  
Dave on the UWS : 1/27/2022 12:16 pm : link
If you are Joe Schoen, would you take this job, knowing the owners are just going to treat you like a rubber stamped YES man? He doesn't impress me that way. He has a clear idea of what he wants, what his vision is, and how to get there. I have to think he felt comfortable enough that Mara won't railroad him, to take the job.
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