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Mara began looking at GM candidates carefully only recently

cosmicj : 1/26/2022 6:22 pm
“Q: You said you keep lists all the time, how long was Joe on your radar?

A: Honestly, not until fairly recently, and I started doing a lot of research I would say six or eight weeks ago, maybe a little longer.” From his Q& A today.

Does this confirm the hypothesis that Mara was all set to promote Abrams and keep Judge until the season began melting down in November? I think UberAlias posted that idea and this quote sure makes it look correct.
we  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:24 pm : link
all knew that he wanted Abrams. That's not even open for debate. The collapse forced his hand.

Same with Judge.
No, it confirms nothing,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/26/2022 6:25 pm : link
just speculative which is your option of course..
Of course, it’s obvious  
Sean : 1/26/2022 6:25 pm : link
Just a year ago it was a common theme that Judge should get increased say in personnel with Abrams acting as a support role type GM. I was even on board with that, or bringing in Ossenfort to work with Judge.
Once Again  
Trainmaster : 1/26/2022 6:26 pm : link
Many thanks to Eric's daughter for the 2021 version of "15 Years Of Lousy Football ..." via the clown show graphic.

I truly believe it played no small role in the changes we're seeing (and hoping to see).


Yes, that was definitely the plan  
ZogZerg : 1/26/2022 6:27 pm : link
He knew DG was gone a long time ago.
so 2+ months  
jestersdead : 1/26/2022 6:28 pm : link
of research isn't enough time for you? I think if there was progress made this season and the team was trending upwards, there wouldn't be a reason to look outside for someone to replace Dave.
RE: Once Again  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:29 pm : link
In comment 15576700 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Many thanks to Eric's daughter for the 2021 version of "15 Years Of Lousy Football ..." via the clown show graphic.

I truly believe it played no small role in the changes we're seeing (and hoping to see).



I don't know about that, but it's funny to contemplate. I keep telling her she rocked the franchise. I think she is embarrassed about it.

Look, we all know Abrams was being groomed for the position. It's why they gave him media time in the offseason for the first time. Young groomed Accorsi who groomed Reese and Gettleman. That's just how the Giants rolled and for a while it worked. But it collapsed in spectacular fashion.
RE: so 2+ months  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:30 pm : link
In comment 15576707 jestersdead said:
Quote:
of research isn't enough time for you? I think if there was progress made this season and the team was trending upwards, there wouldn't be a reason to look outside for someone to replace Dave.


That's not the point cosmicj is making.
RE: Of course, it’s obvious  
cosmicj : 1/26/2022 6:33 pm : link
In comment 15576699 Sean said:
Quote:
Just a year ago it was a common theme that Judge should get increased say in personnel with Abrams acting as a support role type GM. I was even on board with that, or bringing in Ossenfort to work with Judge.


But the theorizing here was based on (well founded) inferences and guesses. Mara pretty much confirmed it, right? I think that’s significant.
.  
Go Terps : 1/26/2022 6:35 pm : link
I really believe the Giants are here because of an 11 minute rant, two QB sneaks, and a clown meme.

That gives you an idea of the quality of ownership we're dealing with.
I am sorry. Is there  
section125 : 1/26/2022 6:35 pm : link
really a reason need to keep beating a dead horse? If you think about it, who gives a shit when Mara started looking for a GM. He knew DG was leaving at the end of the year. So of course he started making a list.
Yeah  
Johnny5 : 1/26/2022 6:35 pm : link
I mean it's pretty clear they were going to promote Abrams. The disaster that snowballed until the end of the season forced their hand. Thankfully. Hopefully Schoen is the guy.
I used to like Mara,  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/26/2022 6:36 pm : link
but more and more it seems like he is absolutely clueless about anything football related. Scary.
RE: .  
Sean : 1/26/2022 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15576724 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I really believe the Giants are here because of an 11 minute rant, two QB sneaks, and a clown meme.

That gives you an idea of the quality of ownership we're dealing with.

Eh, but they are here. That can’t be proven. Would have been very easy to retain Judge citing injuries. That wasn’t done. Don’t think it’s fair to still harp on “if there was no 11 minute rant”, Judge was fired.
I'll  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:38 pm : link
also say this:

Abrams may have been the better choice.

We'll never know because he got associated with the disaster.
RE: I am sorry. Is there  
Sean : 1/26/2022 6:38 pm : link
In comment 15576727 section125 said:
Quote:
really a reason need to keep beating a dead horse? If you think about it, who gives a shit when Mara started looking for a GM. He knew DG was leaving at the end of the year. So of course he started making a list.

Totally agree. Who cares about all the what ifs. Judge was fired, that’s all that matters. Abrams wasn’t elevated. That’s it.
RE: I used to like Mara,  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:39 pm : link
In comment 15576729 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
but more and more it seems like he is absolutely clueless about anything football related. Scary.


I don't think he's a bad guy. He seems genuinely hurt by all of this. He just can't help himself.
So around the bye week.  
MOOPS : 1/26/2022 6:44 pm : link
I can live with that.
You'd think that he'd say something bland like,  
81_Great_Dane : 1/26/2022 6:45 pm : link
"We're always evaluating talent around the league, so we had a list of executives we were keeping our eye on," yada yada yada.

Given the team's 2021 struggles, its terrible record under DG and his history of health issues, it is pretty surprising to hear that they didn't really start to think about replacing him until around Thanksgiving, or into December.
,,,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 6:46 pm : link
I don't think Mara is a bad dude. He just knows nothing about football & thinks he does, thus the meddling.
RE: RE: I am sorry. Is there  
cosmicj : 1/26/2022 6:46 pm : link
In comment 15576736 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 15576727 section125 said:


Quote:


really a reason need to keep beating a dead horse? If you think about it, who gives a shit when Mara started looking for a GM. He knew DG was leaving at the end of the year. So of course he started making a list.


Totally agree. Who cares about all the what ifs. Judge was fired, that’s all that matters. Abrams wasn’t elevated. That’s it.


Disagree. I think it’s a pretty important fact to nail down in the history of the franchise.
cosmicj  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/26/2022 6:48 pm : link
Agree. It's important to understand why things happened. For everyone. Or it will keep happening.

Remember the unnamed quote from inside the organization? "How the (blank) did we get here?"
RE: RE: RE: I am sorry. Is there  
Go Terps : 1/26/2022 6:49 pm : link
In comment 15576767 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 15576736 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 15576727 section125 said:


Quote:


really a reason need to keep beating a dead horse? If you think about it, who gives a shit when Mara started looking for a GM. He knew DG was leaving at the end of the year. So of course he started making a list.


Totally agree. Who cares about all the what ifs. Judge was fired, that’s all that matters. Abrams wasn’t elevated. That’s it.



Disagree. I think it’s a pretty important fact to nail down in the history of the franchise.


Of course it's important. The people calling the shots are still here calling the shots. We should be looking at their decisions with a critical eye - I certainly wouldn't assume they've improved their processes.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 6:51 pm : link
I think Eric is right in, John's heart of hearts, he wanted to promote Abrams.

The Giants are such an incestuous organization.
The only way Judge was losing his job, was if the wheels fell off  
Sean : 1/26/2022 6:52 pm : link
And they did. There had to be a ton of threads this time last year about how Judge should get increased influence in personnel.

Did anyone think Judge was getting fired at 4-7 before Jones got hurt? I didn’t. And I would have assumed Abrams or a NE guy would be the new GM.
My Judge/Abrams thread from 11/9  
Sean : 1/26/2022 6:58 pm : link
Mara took a big bet on Judge, I think it’s been fairly obvious Abrams was going to eventually take over for Gettleman and then supplement Judge (especially when he showed promise).

I don’t see why it’s surprising to people that this was the plan.
Link - ( New Window )
Sean.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 7:01 pm : link
Thanks for that thread link. I was spitting fire, Haha.
I thought it would be Abrams and Judge  
Go Terps : 1/26/2022 7:01 pm : link
Judge really set himself on fire. I'd be surprised if he ever gets a head coach interview ever again.
Go Terps.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 7:04 pm : link
I'd be shocked-SHOCKED-if there's ever even an article written mentioning him as a prospective HC. His end here was THAT bad. The man was a national laughingstock. I had people who don't even watch or follow football ribbing me about those QB sneaks vs. WFT.
RE: My Judge/Abrams thread from 11/9  
NYGgolfer : 1/26/2022 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15576793 Sean said:
Quote:
Mara took a big bet on Judge, I think it’s been fairly obvious Abrams was going to eventually take over for Gettleman and then supplement Judge (especially when he showed promise).

I don’t see why it’s surprising to people that this was the plan. Link - ( New Window )


I don't think it is surprising that the likely plan was to have Abrams take over. But it was still contingent on there being progress with the team this year and certainly not this meltdown.

But there wasn't any progress so John Mara pivoted and moved away from that idea. And he felt it was coming on 8 weeks ago if not longer per the quote in the OP.

Isn't that what we would have wanted him to do? What's the issue here in terms of setting the history books straight?
RE: ...  
Enzo : 1/26/2022 7:08 pm : link
In comment 15576778 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think Eric is right in, John's heart of hearts, he wanted to promote Abrams.

The Giants are such an incestuous organization.

Even if they had stumbled to an 8-9 drama free record,, why not take a look around the league and interview other candidates before just handing the job to Abrams? The team has been bad for quite some time. I can't imagine being so committed to promoting from within.
The question really is assistant GM  
Sean : 1/26/2022 7:08 pm : link
Schoen needs to be able to bring in his own right hand man (like Beane did in Buffalo). If I don’t see that happen, I’ll have major concerns.
RE: The question really is assistant GM  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/26/2022 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15576817 Sean said:
Quote:
Schoen needs to be able to bring in his own right hand man (like Beane did in Buffalo). If I don’t see that happen, I’ll have major concerns.


I gotta imagine Schoen brought that up during his interviews * get the OK. It'd be malpractice on his part not to broach that topic.
 
christian : 1/26/2022 7:22 pm : link
I hope Mara isn’t delaying the timeline out of respect for Gettleman or he had a trusted deputy doing the research for him.

He’s one of the driving forces behind the Rooney Rule updates. He knew at a minimum if Gettleman retired he had to go to the open market and talk to outside guys, even if he wanted to promote Abrams.

The Giants have had awful general management for a decade, and Mara started the research 6-8 weeks before the hiring period? I really hope not.
RE: I am sorry. Is there  
k2tampa : 1/26/2022 7:26 pm : link
In comment 15576727 section125 said:
Quote:
really a reason need to keep beating a dead horse? If you think about it, who gives a shit when Mara started looking for a GM. He knew DG was leaving at the end of the year. So of course he started making a list.


And he was answering a question about Schoen. It's highly likely the time frame involves Schoen, not all outside candidates. The question begins by talking about the list he keeps. So he had people he knew he would look at. Schoen just wasn't part of it. When he started looking thoroughly at people he found Schoen.
RE: I'll  
bluepepper : 1/26/2022 7:27 pm : link
In comment 15576735 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
also say this:

Abrams may have been the better choice.

We'll never know because he got associated with the disaster.

Yeah, he might have been good. I wasn't dead set against it like some because I think sometimes the in-house guy can actually transform things better than an outsider because people inside respect him and know they can't wait him out.
Who cares  
OC2.0 : 1/26/2022 7:28 pm : link
What's in the rearview. Why & when is history. Looking fwd to what's on the road ahead. I finally feel a little optimism for once.
Scary  
kelly : 1/26/2022 8:04 pm : link
Mara in his interview talked about adding positions. He did not talk about evaluating the current staff.

Mara is not going to clean house he will let Schoen make some hired.

His is not a good sign
This seems to be bogus to me  
blueblood : 1/26/2022 8:09 pm : link
Because there were reports that they were beginning to look at potential as far back as October and November. I saw one report that said they started reaching out through back channels to Poles as far back as October and Schoen in November. And I can’t imagine that they just start researching candidates when a schlub like me was sitting on the Internet researching candidates last year.
RE: Scary  
Red Right Hand : 1/26/2022 11:55 pm : link
In comment 15576932 kelly said:
Quote:
Mara in his interview talked about adding positions. He did not talk about evaluating the current staff.

Mara is not going to clean house he will let Schoen make some hired.

His is not a good sign
Well he did, specifically scouting, and even mentioned the time frame.
RE: RE: Once Again  
Optimus-NY : 1/27/2022 1:16 am : link
In comment 15576712 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15576700 Trainmaster said:


Quote:


Many thanks to Eric's daughter for the 2021 version of "15 Years Of Lousy Football ..." via the clown show graphic.

I truly believe it played no small role in the changes we're seeing (and hoping to see).





I don't know about that, but it's funny to contemplate. I keep telling her she rocked the franchise. I think she is embarrassed about it.

Look, we all know Abrams was being groomed for the position. It's why they gave him media time in the offseason for the first time. Young groomed Accorsi who groomed Reese and Gettleman. That's just how the Giants rolled and for a while it worked. But it collapsed in spectacular fashion.


I truly believe that your daughter kicked started this whole thing with Judge at the press conference. It's funny to see the uninformed national mainstream media think it was in reference to the WFT and not the picture itself with those clowns. She should be proud. The Maras are still clowns though.
First, and foremost  
fkap : 1/27/2022 8:48 am : link
these interviews are fairly useless.

Do you expect him to admit he was tampering with Schoen? Or admit that he was all set to hire Abrams, but PR restraints prevented him? Or that he knew a year ago Gettleman needed replacing, but did nothing? Or that he had tunnel vision on Abrams to the point he wouldn't even look at anyone else?

The plan was probably to have DG genuinely retire this year, replaced by Abrams. That the retirement became a de facto firing is immaterial.

That leaves the Abrams plan. Even if the plan were mostly set in place/moving forward, it would still make sense to look at other candidates, especially as the season spiraled into complete disaster.
RE: This seems to be bogus to me  
cosmicj : 1/27/2022 8:50 am : link
In comment 15576942 blueblood said:
Quote:
Because there were reports that they were beginning to look at potential as far back as October and November. I saw one report that said they started reaching out through back channels to Poles as far back as October and Schoen in November. And I can’t imagine that they just start researching candidates when a schlub like me was sitting on the Internet researching candidates last year.


Blue blood - could you locate those reports? Not being argumentative, but it would be interesting to see what exactly they say.
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