Giants need a HC, Dabioll a few days ago, Flores today- who is selecting the HC???
Schoen- The entire group interviews all the candidates, they wnat someone who will work with him (Joe in lockstep) need a guy who can put a good staff together. need GOOD coordinators, led men etc. Intelligence, emotional intelligence, steady presences etc. Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort. They want to all agree on the candidate.
Carter- what did you see in Josh Allen that others didn't.
Schoen- Josh stood out to us with the weather he played in, where he would be playing in Buffalo, his size, athletic ability and who he was as a person. Even Better person and teammate than a player.
Brandt- saying guys on the phone- Giants are too old school, too set in the ways of the past- how do you tell these guys things will be different:
Schoen- I worked with old school scouts and exposed to old school ways, but age wise I have been able to evolve with technology and still getting used to what we do here now and then being open to making changes to get a competitive advantage. We will leave no stone unturned. Sounds like more evaluation right now but changes definitely coming.
Kay- But do you have a QB? Jones jury is still out- evaluate
Schoen- DJ has qualities I like, size, athletic ability and smart. Others (Allen and Jackson) have had the same coaches since coming in. DJ will be on his third coach. As John Mara said, we have done everything possible to screw this kid up. We will put an offense together around DJ and his strengths, upgrade the Oline and get a system that plays to his strength and SB's strength. We need an offensive staff that can do that.
Schoen- we are going to do this the right way. It will not happen overnight. We are going to bring in Young GUYS and build a foundation for the future and get us back to winning ways. We are going to COMPETE now and set us up for success..
My Opinion:
I think he said something that is VERY key here. They know they are not winning next year (ala Phins two years ago) and will be trimming the roster down of contracts and guys who aren't going to be here two years from regardless. Jones is the QB right now BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility. Jones is the QB of 22 (and most here kind of said that would be the case if we are trying to get Cap under control) but, I am not convinced that we won't be bringing in a QB or two to develop as well.
I think you will see some major changes shortly. One more note- the way Schoen said get an OC and staff in place makes me think the HC job is down to Flores and Quinn... Just a feeling here based on how he mentioned getting a HC then specifically saying getting an OC and staff in place...
Giants need a HC, Dabioll a few days ago, Flores today- who is selecting the HC???
Schoen- The entire group interviews all the candidates, they wnat someone who will work with him (Joe in lockstep) need a guy who can put a good staff together. need GOOD coordinators, led men etc. Intelligence, emotional intelligence, steady presences etc. Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort. They want to all agree on the candidate.
Carter- what did you see in Josh Allen that others didn't.
Schoen- Josh stood out to us with the weather he played in, where he would be playing in Buffalo, his size, athletic ability and who he was as a person. Even Better person and teammate than a player.
Brandt- saying guys on the phone- Giants are too old school, too set in the ways of the past- how do you tell these guys things will be different:
Schoen- I worked with old school scouts and exposed to old school ways, but age wise I have been able to evolve with technology and still getting used to what we do here now and then being open to making changes to get a competitive advantage. We will leave no stone unturned. Sounds like more evaluation right now but changes definitely coming.
Kay- But do you have a QB? Jones jury is still out- evaluate
Schoen- DJ has qualities I like, size, athletic ability and smart. Others (Allen and Jackson) have had the same coaches since coming in. DJ will be on his third coach. As John Mara said, we have done everything possible to screw this kid up. We will put an offense together around DJ and his strengths, upgrade the Oline and get a system that plays to his strength and SB's strength. We need an offensive staff that can do that.
Schoen- we are going to do this the right way. It will not happen overnight. We are going to bring in Young GUYS and build a foundation for the future and get us back to winning ways. We are going to COMPETE now and set us up for success..
My Opinion:
I think he said something that is VERY key here. They know they are not winning next year (ala Phins two years ago) and will be trimming the roster down of contracts and guys who aren't going to be here two years from regardless. Jones is the QB right now BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility. Jones is the QB of 22 (and most here kind of said that would be the case if we are trying to get Cap under control) but, I am not convinced that we won't be bringing in a QB or two to develop as well.
I think you will see some major changes shortly. One more note- the way Schoen said get an OC and staff in place makes me think the HC job is down to Flores and Quinn... Just a feeling here based on how he mentioned getting a HC then specifically saying getting an OC and staff in place...
I think this thining has been missing ... BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility.
This would really allow for a next man up if they start farming the QBs more. If the system requires mobility due a key aspect of the system and being a pillar in the O having an unathletic immobile QB is not really ideal. None of Jones backups and any chance of running that section of the playbook.
I definitely don't make much of the "build around Jones" comment
There's no structure here presently. It's not an offense for any QB. The job of a general manager is to set the course for the next 3-5 years. It's a long term thought process. You determine what you want the team to be, with an eye towards what your talent is right now, and build accordingly.
You say build around jones because that's who you have right now under contract.
“Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort.”
This. Could we just understand that this doesn’t mean that Mara is picking the head coach. It doesn’t mean that at all. It doesn’t mean Mara will override who Schoen wants. It’s the way almost every organization hires key people and the way an organization should hire key people.
RE: “Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort.”
This. Could we just understand that this doesn’t mean that Mara is picking the head coach. It doesn’t mean that at all. It doesn’t mean Mara will override who Schoen wants. It’s the way almost every organization hires key people and the way an organization should hire key people.
Yeah, but when you put it like that, people can't get irate about it and where's the fun in logic?
There's no structure here presently. It's not an offense for any QB. The job of a general manager is to set the course for the next 3-5 years. It's a long term thought process. You determine what you want the team to be, with an eye towards what your talent is right now, and build accordingly.
You say build around jones because that's who you have right now under contract.
True .... However I get the vibe Mobile QBs and if a possible dual-threat was available we'd be more open than in the past. There is all this talk of analytics .... QBs than can make consistent plays, significant plays have better success in today's league. Now longevity comes into play here due to injury, ability erosion in their legs if that was/is their main threat that is where good QB coaching comes into play evolution as we'll redefining their style to the new ability level. Not running as much but better pocket movement and knowing how to just make the threat of a run work for them "vet savvy" even after 1 good run an old dawg can make the defender think "he just might" and get that extra there.
Just getting a consistent philosophy with today's modern rules, more athletic players, updated stats, metric, etc in mind and finding and grooming players with that in mind will allow for that in-house growth that helps keep the cap healthy and the previous mentioned next man up. sometimes it realy felt like we were drafting and picking FAs in a vaccum indepedent of the overall situation. Exampe Barkley yeah a good RB helps a vet QB on the way down and a young QB coming in ... that was his role as a foudational piece but the failure on the OL rebuild is/was a failure ... Trade @2 get more picks and fix the OL that will help an aging QB, young QB and maybe a "lesser" back look better than they are due to nice holes. Statiscally Very Good/Good OL with an avg back trumps a bad OL /w a great back everytime. Hopefully a fresh young GM that is open and receptive to info and new ideas will not miss on such obvious things.
Seems to value size and mobility in the QB. Not sure where I think he means dual threat. You have the injury factor. Just looking at the last Bills game it was Allen in the pocket that brought them back (arm talent). Still think he will value that first but he certainly will want someone that creates more time in the pocket and offers some strong skills smartly running at times.
I don't know how Mara can say that they screwed up Jones
DG and KA. Schoen is finally going to upgrade data innovation and the scouting dept long overdue in the Giants organization.
I do believe Mara is going to give Schoen the resources to get this done.
Now let’s get our new HC this weekend and let him build out his staff.
Meanwhile for the first time I feel good about our GM scouting players at the Senior Bowl.
Seems to value size and mobility in the QB. Not sure where I think he means dual threat. You have the injury factor. Just looking at the last Bills game it was Allen in the pocket that brought them back (arm talent). Still think he will value that first but he certainly will want someone that creates more time in the pocket and offers some strong skills smartly running at times.
Myabe it is just me but I consider J Allen a dual threat avg over 600 yds a yr and 7+ rushing TDs per sesason ... and him referencing Lamar who is also a dual threat gives me the vibe as a GM that is the style of QB he likes ... I get that it also in reference to OC/HC consistency but there were other examples avilable but they are lacking in size or aren't mobile (as in keep a D honest mobile).
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
run it through his bosses (as is custom almost everywhere) and unless it’s something egregious that would preclude it, they will rubberstamp his decision.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
RE: Again, he will make the HC and other decisions,
run it through his bosses (as is custom almost everywhere) and unless it’s something egregious that would preclude it, they will rubberstamp his decision.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Yes, not really concerned of any power play here. Schoen was hired and his first job was to find his head coach.
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
I agree and I would love that ... I just think he is in the group where picking Vick, K. Murray, Jackson, Allen (to a lesser degree only because he is a sturdier built dude), etc would not"scare" him as much.
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
I agree and I would love that ... I just think he is in the group where picking Vick, K. Murray, Jackson, Allen (to a lesser degree only because he is a sturdier built dude), etc would not"scare" him as much.
I agree BUT, I think his answer about why they liked Josh Allen is pretty key- they wanted a guy who could play in the conditions they would see in Buffalo. I don't Mayfield fit that mold (and his personality isn't the same as Allen's) and Rosen for sure was not that guy.
That makes me think Corral not going to be an option here but Willis could be. BUT, since we are going young guys (he said that in his interview) that means we are going to be jettisoning some guys who have been around a bit to free up cap space. Look for us to acquire MULTIPLE picks during the draft THIS year. (MY opinion there).
Leonard Williams I think stays (unless we can trade him) but a Bradberry could go. Peppers won't be resigned unless dirt cheap. Ryan problem gone. I don't think we waste resources on average to below average veterans on the Oline and instead roll with young guys.
Slayton, SS and Rudolph could all be gone. Booker is probably gone as if you follow the Bills model they draft a RB in round 3 often...
I could be weong but he seems like a "risk" taker if that type of situation comes up BUT he will have really dug deep into it before stepping off the ledge ....
run it through his bosses (as is custom almost everywhere) and unless it’s something egregious that would preclude it, they will rubberstamp his decision.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Nope, it will be made by JFK Jr when he emerges from the Matrix.
run it through his bosses (as is custom almost everywhere) and unless it’s something egregious that would preclude it, they will rubberstamp his decision.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Nope, it will be made by JFK Jr when he emerges from the Matrix.
Giants need a HC, Dabioll a few days ago, Flores today- who is selecting the HC???
Schoen- The entire group interviews all the candidates, they wnat someone who will work with him (Joe in lockstep) need a guy who can put a good staff together. need GOOD coordinators, led men etc. Intelligence, emotional intelligence, steady presences etc. Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort. They want to all agree on the candidate.
Carter- what did you see in Josh Allen that others didn't.
Schoen- Josh stood out to us with the weather he played in, where he would be playing in Buffalo, his size, athletic ability and who he was as a person. Even Better person and teammate than a player.
Brandt- saying guys on the phone- Giants are too old school, too set in the ways of the past- how do you tell these guys things will be different:
Schoen- I worked with old school scouts and exposed to old school ways, but age wise I have been able to evolve with technology and still getting used to what we do here now and then being open to making changes to get a competitive advantage. We will leave no stone unturned. Sounds like more evaluation right now but changes definitely coming.
Kay- But do you have a QB? Jones jury is still out- evaluate
Schoen- DJ has qualities I like, size, athletic ability and smart. Others (Allen and Jackson) have had the same coaches since coming in. DJ will be on his third coach. As John Mara said, we have done everything possible to screw this kid up. We will put an offense together around DJ and his strengths, upgrade the Oline and get a system that plays to his strength and SB's strength. We need an offensive staff that can do that.
Schoen- we are going to do this the right way. It will not happen overnight. We are going to bring in Young GUYS and build a foundation for the future and get us back to winning ways. We are going to COMPETE now and set us up for success..
My Opinion:
I think he said something that is VERY key here. They know they are not winning next year (ala Phins two years ago) and will be trimming the roster down of contracts and guys who aren't going to be here two years from regardless. Jones is the QB right now BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility. Jones is the QB of 22 (and most here kind of said that would be the case if we are trying to get Cap under control) but, I am not convinced that we won't be bringing in a QB or two to develop as well.
I think you will see some major changes shortly. One more note- the way Schoen said get an OC and staff in place makes me think the HC job is down to Flores and Quinn... Just a feeling here based on how he mentioned getting a HC then specifically saying getting an OC and staff in place...
Giants need a HC, Dabioll a few days ago, Flores today- who is selecting the HC???
Schoen- The entire group interviews all the candidates, they wnat someone who will work with him (Joe in lockstep) need a guy who can put a good staff together. need GOOD coordinators, led men etc. Intelligence, emotional intelligence, steady presences etc. Again, people don't like to hera it but it is a Collabortive effort. They want to all agree on the candidate.
Carter- what did you see in Josh Allen that others didn't.
Schoen- Josh stood out to us with the weather he played in, where he would be playing in Buffalo, his size, athletic ability and who he was as a person. Even Better person and teammate than a player.
Brandt- saying guys on the phone- Giants are too old school, too set in the ways of the past- how do you tell these guys things will be different:
Schoen- I worked with old school scouts and exposed to old school ways, but age wise I have been able to evolve with technology and still getting used to what we do here now and then being open to making changes to get a competitive advantage. We will leave no stone unturned. Sounds like more evaluation right now but changes definitely coming.
Kay- But do you have a QB? Jones jury is still out- evaluate
Schoen- DJ has qualities I like, size, athletic ability and smart. Others (Allen and Jackson) have had the same coaches since coming in. DJ will be on his third coach. As John Mara said, we have done everything possible to screw this kid up. We will put an offense together around DJ and his strengths, upgrade the Oline and get a system that plays to his strength and SB's strength. We need an offensive staff that can do that.
Schoen- we are going to do this the right way. It will not happen overnight. We are going to bring in Young GUYS and build a foundation for the future and get us back to winning ways. We are going to COMPETE now and set us up for success..
My Opinion:
I think he said something that is VERY key here. They know they are not winning next year (ala Phins two years ago) and will be trimming the roster down of contracts and guys who aren't going to be here two years from regardless. Jones is the QB right now BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility. Jones is the QB of 22 (and most here kind of said that would be the case if we are trying to get Cap under control) but, I am not convinced that we won't be bringing in a QB or two to develop as well.
I think you will see some major changes shortly. One more note- the way Schoen said get an OC and staff in place makes me think the HC job is down to Flores and Quinn... Just a feeling here based on how he mentioned getting a HC then specifically saying getting an OC and staff in place...
I think this thining has been missing ... BUT I suspect the offense we will be building is in reality set up for ANY QB with some size and mobility.
This would really allow for a next man up if they start farming the QBs more. If the system requires mobility due a key aspect of the system and being a pillar in the O having an unathletic immobile QB is not really ideal. None of Jones backups and any chance of running that section of the playbook.
There's no structure here presently. It's not an offense for any QB. The job of a general manager is to set the course for the next 3-5 years. It's a long term thought process. You determine what you want the team to be, with an eye towards what your talent is right now, and build accordingly.
You say build around jones because that's who you have right now under contract.
Yeah, but when you put it like that, people can't get irate about it and where's the fun in logic?
There's no structure here presently. It's not an offense for any QB. The job of a general manager is to set the course for the next 3-5 years. It's a long term thought process. You determine what you want the team to be, with an eye towards what your talent is right now, and build accordingly.
You say build around jones because that's who you have right now under contract.
True .... However I get the vibe Mobile QBs and if a possible dual-threat was available we'd be more open than in the past. There is all this talk of analytics .... QBs than can make consistent plays, significant plays have better success in today's league. Now longevity comes into play here due to injury, ability erosion in their legs if that was/is their main threat that is where good QB coaching comes into play evolution as we'll redefining their style to the new ability level. Not running as much but better pocket movement and knowing how to just make the threat of a run work for them "vet savvy" even after 1 good run an old dawg can make the defender think "he just might" and get that extra there.
Just getting a consistent philosophy with today's modern rules, more athletic players, updated stats, metric, etc in mind and finding and grooming players with that in mind will allow for that in-house growth that helps keep the cap healthy and the previous mentioned next man up. sometimes it realy felt like we were drafting and picking FAs in a vaccum indepedent of the overall situation. Exampe Barkley yeah a good RB helps a vet QB on the way down and a young QB coming in ... that was his role as a foudational piece but the failure on the OL rebuild is/was a failure ... Trade @2 get more picks and fix the OL that will help an aging QB, young QB and maybe a "lesser" back look better than they are due to nice holes. Statiscally Very Good/Good OL with an avg back trumps a bad OL /w a great back everytime. Hopefully a fresh young GM that is open and receptive to info and new ideas will not miss on such obvious things.
Seems to value size and mobility in the QB. Not sure where I think he means dual threat. You have the injury factor. Just looking at the last Bills game it was Allen in the pocket that brought them back (arm talent). Still think he will value that first but he certainly will want someone that creates more time in the pocket and offers some strong skills smartly running at times.
Aren't all the other candidates defensive coaches?
I do believe Mara is going to give Schoen the resources to get this done.
Now let’s get our new HC this weekend and let him build out his staff.
Meanwhile for the first time I feel good about our GM scouting players at the Senior Bowl.
Seems to value size and mobility in the QB. Not sure where I think he means dual threat. You have the injury factor. Just looking at the last Bills game it was Allen in the pocket that brought them back (arm talent). Still think he will value that first but he certainly will want someone that creates more time in the pocket and offers some strong skills smartly running at times.
Myabe it is just me but I consider J Allen a dual threat avg over 600 yds a yr and 7+ rushing TDs per sesason ... and him referencing Lamar who is also a dual threat gives me the vibe as a GM that is the style of QB he likes ... I get that it also in reference to OC/HC consistency but there were other examples avilable but they are lacking in size or aren't mobile (as in keep a D honest mobile).
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Yes, not really concerned of any power play here. Schoen was hired and his first job was to find his head coach.
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
I agree and I would love that ... I just think he is in the group where picking Vick, K. Murray, Jackson, Allen (to a lesser degree only because he is a sturdier built dude), etc would not"scare" him as much.
GMFB | Joe Schoen - ( New Window )
Quote:
I think he will be comfortable with a QB who can maneuver in the pocket and create some yards at times. Really what we see most of the better QB's today. Wilson, Rodgers, Dak, Burrow, etc. and not the QB who is more gifted as a runner than in the pocket. Allen is just a rare blend of the two in that he can run over a LB but than can throw a accurate laser downfield with ease. Not sure someone like him is readily available. Lamar was a favorite of mine since his Louisville days but I still think he struggles a bit in the pocket but he certainly will win you games.
I just think to get to where everyone wants (a SB) a QB at some point will have to excel in the pocket.
I agree and I would love that ... I just think he is in the group where picking Vick, K. Murray, Jackson, Allen (to a lesser degree only because he is a sturdier built dude), etc would not"scare" him as much.
I agree BUT, I think his answer about why they liked Josh Allen is pretty key- they wanted a guy who could play in the conditions they would see in Buffalo. I don't Mayfield fit that mold (and his personality isn't the same as Allen's) and Rosen for sure was not that guy.
That makes me think Corral not going to be an option here but Willis could be. BUT, since we are going young guys (he said that in his interview) that means we are going to be jettisoning some guys who have been around a bit to free up cap space. Look for us to acquire MULTIPLE picks during the draft THIS year. (MY opinion there).
Leonard Williams I think stays (unless we can trade him) but a Bradberry could go. Peppers won't be resigned unless dirt cheap. Ryan problem gone. I don't think we waste resources on average to below average veterans on the Oline and instead roll with young guys.
Slayton, SS and Rudolph could all be gone. Booker is probably gone as if you follow the Bills model they draft a RB in round 3 often...
Not so much the leap of faith ....
Leap of Faith .... - ( New Window )
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Nope, it will be made by JFK Jr when he emerges from the Matrix.
Quote:
run it through his bosses (as is custom almost everywhere) and unless it’s something egregious that would preclude it, they will rubberstamp his decision.
That’s what is going to happen, imv..Just watch.
Nope, it will be made by JFK Jr when he emerges from the Matrix.
Shit! Hadn’t thought about that