Having read all the latest articles and watching the presser for Schoen it becomes very clear that despite all the negative press and failure he’s had John Mara continues to meddle in this process along with his idiot brother. How do you say one minute it’s the GMs call on coaches and then the first thing we hear yesterday from schoen is “collaborative” when it comes to the head coaching job? Mara running out to call Brian Flores, when we didn’t even have a GM and now there are reports Daboll is going to Miami and that Flores is imminent. Flores is a horrible choice, and sounds exactly like a Mara hire. His offenses were pedestrian, teams ok and he’s a monster to deal with. On top of that our offensive is a shit show and hiring this guy is not going to fix Daniel Jones or make us a better team. He’s just a carbon copy of Judge, ultra conservative, with no imagination or idea how to put a staff together. I’m amazed at the love affair for this guy. Simply amazed.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Of course ownership is going to have a say. It's a collaboration.
But Schoen is leading search. Mara and Tisch give their opinions, ask their questions.
Schoen makes his pick. Then ownership either approves, or they keep digging.
That's the process. Mara hasn't lied about it
Q: This might be splitting hairs a little, but you said the GM would hire the coach. Joe said it would be collaborative, so who really has the final say?
A: It’s a collaboration. Listen, he’s not going to hire anybody that we don’t want and we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want. But ownership always has the final approval over any decision like that. That’s just not going to change.
Q: Is it fair to say though that he has more say than the previous general managers in that regard?
A: No, I don’t think so. Our system has always been the same. We rely on the general manager. We rely on his advice, but at the end of the day, ownership has to approve it.
I don't care what other owners do.
I keep making this analogy and still will. If you try to plumb your own house and the end result is the basement is flooded. Hire a pro and get out of the way.
Does he trust Schoen? If so, let him hire the coach.
Sounds to me like he is. He said he we aren't hiring anyone Joe doesn't want (and vice versa). To me this sounds more like a checkered past situation than football ability being a deal breaker for Mara - see Bienemy, or even a Payton if he was available. And I get that, if he doesn't want to employ someone for ethical reasons, I 100% support that even if it has the chance of effecting wins and losses. Its still a business.
Yes, Mara has been interviewing HC's, but he didn't have a GM in place, and interviewing someone tells them of your interest. It can simply be a placeholder until the GM is in house. I also have to assume that ownership talked about potential HC's with the GM candidates, so it is very possible that Mara is going off of that list.
The Giants really have to stop operating as a reputation management firm for their QBs. it's been a problem since 2017.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
Or that maybe Schoen wasn't as high on Daboll as many suspected? I think we all fall into that narrative of if GM X worked with OC Y, they must want to work together again. That isn't always true.
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as I posted above, Quinn and Flores are probably the "safer" choices. They may be the better choices.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
Or that maybe Schoen wasn't as high on Daboll as many suspected? I think we all fall into that narrative of if GM X worked with OC Y, they must want to work together again. That isn't always true.
That is a very possible scenario. Maybe Schoen knows that Dorsey is really the magic behind Allen and the offense - totally possible.
Given the past several hires it is not unreasonable to want Mara especially to take a back seat. He admitted himself he has lost the trust of the fans. When comments come out that he possibly has a different favorite candidate than Schoen, it is cause for concern.
How that all became people being miserable shut-ins who hate the team or wild conspiracy theories is a bit shocking to me. Some skepticism of the process is certainly not unreasonable.
What I truly find surprising is the number of posters in the "Mara is picking the coach" camp, and the equally boisterous "You can only believe what you are told" camp.
My point exactly. While a few posts are over the top, the majority of posts seem to express concern about warning signs, not about massive conspiracies, but that word is being thrown around a lot by people who clearly don't know what it means.
Let’s see what happens under Schoen within the front office the next few months. That will determine things greatly.
I'm not sure how anyone can come away from yesterday's interviews and not retain the impression that it is pretty much same power structure.
The only difference is Schoen has replaced Gettleman, and eventually Schoen's influence will hopefully extend to other elements of the operation (i.e., scouting staff changes).
Bingo.
I think that is absolutely right. I think there are people who want to believe the problems were wiped away that easy and can't stand to hear anything that challenges that notion.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
I'm not sure how anyone can come away from yesterday's interviews and not retain the impression that it is pretty much same power structure.
The only difference is Schoen has replaced Gettleman, and eventually Schoen's influence will hopefully extend to other elements of the operation (i.e., scouting staff changes).
Me either, it was damned disappointing even tho part of me heard exactly what I expected to hear, especially from Mara.
And think it's reasonably skeptical to believe that the Mara inner circle simply replaced a yes-man GM with another one.
Time will tell.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
I don't think there is literally anyone on this board who believed Mara would have no input. Why would he sit in the interviews if he had no input. That's a silly strawman argument.
People are reacting to reports that Mara was both reaching out to HC candidates before a GM was in place, and at least one beat writer reported that Mara may prefer a different candidate than Schoen.
Skepticism...not stupidity.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
I also don't think it's crazy to think that in the interview Schoen mentioned that he would like to bring Daboll in and give him a good shot at being the new HC and the "inner circle" responding with "Yeah - sure he would be a great candidate, but we here in NY have been kind of burned by the the new HC thing a couple times in the recent past, what do you think about some other guys like FLores and QUinn that have been there before."
If you were Schoen and you want the job - which of course he did - what do you think his response would be????
Is he calling the shots in that scenario???
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
People who are posting things like "this is a troubling sign" are being called conspiracy theorists by a significant number of posters - and not the ones that are typically on the fringe.
It has been an extreme overreaction.
And think it's reasonably skeptical to believe that the Mara inner circle simply replaced a yes-man GM with another one.
Time will tell.
exactly
and its not just the HC
For all that he said at the season ending presser, Jones and Barkley were 100% coming back. Its not exactly a directive from ownership, but it might as well be.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
Mike's correct, and the closest posters I've seen go near definitive are Eric and Terps, whose collective intuition is typically excellent.
who has Harbaugh interviewed with ?? NO ONE...
everyone sees right through Harbauagh trying to squeeze UM for more money
And this is why we get the overreactions. This is borderline hysterical.
The reporters didn't ask about Harbaugh because few believe he is really leaving Michigan. And some of what you hear in a press conference has to be taken with a grain of salt. Schoen isn't going to say "I will hire the coach and Jones hasn't shown shit so far in his career." If you expected to hear that you weren't thinking clearly.
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
Why do insist on pushing this agenda lately. This is exactly what Mara said the GM is responsible for and is consistent with what Getts did too.
"This will be a comprehensive search for our next general manager," said Mara. "We are looking for a person who demonstrates exceptional leadership and communication abilities, somebody who will oversee all aspects of our football operations, including player personnel, college scouting and coaching."
In addition, the new GM is leading the process to get a new Head Coach hired. Yes, he needs to get his hire approved by the owners...save me the weak conjecture.
How can you possibly keep saying the GM isn't running things based on the above?
You just said above that no one here actually thought Mara would have 0 input but I actually completely disagree, plenty post and argue like its what was promised to them.
You just said above that no one here actually thought Mara would have 0 input but I actually completely disagree, plenty post and argue like its what was promised to them.
As with most things, whoever is hired will confirm for many what they already believe. Flores being hired will be proof of Mara running the team for some. Daboll being hired will be proof to some that Schoen has full autonomy and answers to nobody. People hate living with the unknown so they create a theory that makes everything understandable. It's silly not to realize people have different views and therefore different theories.
Neither one will ever be "proven" in anyway. That doesn't mean it can't be discussed.
Posters in the first group took a Drama class in high school...
The process is flawed. It can still yield improvement and I figure it will now as the IQ just went up.
Still a flawed process, and that will probably be borne out against better processes elsewhere over a period of years.
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
Lmao PEPPERS WAS RIGHT. The GM has not made a single decision yet.
Do you also believe in Qanon?
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Good news is that Schoen MAY be better than Gettleman (probably is) and Schoen MAY be able to convince Mara to do the right thing (debatable).
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
Lmao PEPPERS WAS RIGHT. The GM has not made a single decision yet.
Do you also believe in Qanon?
It's like EliisGod and this nub just showed up as illustrations of the fringe lunatics on this site.
Thanks to you both!
I suspect that ownership's final say is more about retaining the right not to commit to the GM's choice if he wants a 9 year $100MM contract. At the end of the day, (thanks Antrel) it's not the GM's money.
The process is flawed. It can still yield improvement and I figure it will now as the IQ just went up.
Still a flawed process, and that will probably be borne out against better processes elsewhere over a period of years.
I’d say the Eagles are well run, and Lurie is HEAVILY involved.
Schoen said he is giving his front office a chance to see if they can buy in to his process. He will need his own outside asst GM after the draft. Need stronger people below him.
The counter to that is that Washington has had Snyder involved. That has worked out terribly.
I am not equating Mara with Jones/Lurie or Snyder. What I am saying is that it is Mara particularly and his poor track record that is the concern.
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The GM the last four years was John/Chris/Gettleman. Now it's John/Chris/Schoen.
The process is flawed. It can still yield improvement and I figure it will now as the IQ just went up.
Still a flawed process, and that will probably be borne out against better processes elsewhere over a period of years.
I’d say the Eagles are well run, and Lurie is HEAVILY involved.
Schoen said he is giving his front office a chance to see if they can buy in to his process. He will need his own outside asst GM after the draft. Need stronger people below him.
It's worth remembering that if John had had his way, Chris would have been made GM when Accorsi retired. Presumably he'd keep that job until he was ready to retire - would John ever actually fire his brother? Tisch vetoed, but John essentially found a workaround.
The football side is basically being run by a homeless man's John and Robert Kennedy.
They're not good at it, so we're left hoping they luck into some good decisions. Hopefully they both retire soon and McDonnell is better than they are.
The football side is basically being run by a homeless man's John and Robert Kennedy.
Some will take offense at this, but that was funny!
That’s what I hope he asked Mara knowing who he is. I hope he got the right answer
Mara: “Well you’d really have to ask Joe that question. I didn’t even know we hired Brian until about 10 minutes before I walked on. I will say, though, I’ve been disappointed in that Boba Fett show on Disney +. I mean, the best episode didn’t even have Boba in it amiright?!”
AP: “Do you see a future for the NY Giants that includes Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones?”
Mara: “No clue! With Joe I have a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ policy and I don’t ask Joe a God damned thing! You think we’ll get to see Baby Yoda and Luke again? That could really save this otherwise mediocre series! Seems a lot easier than fixing this offense, though, amiright?! But you’ll need to check with Joe about that. Deuces✌🏻!”