Having read all the latest articles and watching the presser for Schoen it becomes very clear that despite all the negative press and failure he’s had John Mara continues to meddle in this process along with his idiot brother. How do you say one minute it’s the GMs call on coaches and then the first thing we hear yesterday from schoen is “collaborative” when it comes to the head coaching job? Mara running out to call Brian Flores, when we didn’t even have a GM and now there are reports Daboll is going to Miami and that Flores is imminent. Flores is a horrible choice, and sounds exactly like a Mara hire. His offenses were pedestrian, teams ok and he’s a monster to deal with. On top of that our offensive is a shit show and hiring this guy is not going to fix Daniel Jones or make us a better team. He’s just a carbon copy of Judge, ultra conservative, with no imagination or idea how to put a staff together. I’m amazed at the love affair for this guy. Simply amazed.
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In comment 15577391 Andy in Boston said:
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amusing. Pretty sure all owners make the final call in the NFL....after all if you own a business, that's the way it works.
Well the Mara family sucks at it and has since the 1960s.
Imagine being in sports radio and making this dopey comment. The best is you say you have been a fan since 1986, but yet say the Giants ownership has sucked since the 60's. Man, I feel bad for some people's family and friends.
Imagine knowing so little about Giants history you think I'm wrong.
If we already interviewed "the guy" and we let him walk out of the building without an offer, then he is not "the guy" anymore. People can sense when they were not the first choice and that is something that can linger and metastasize in as high stakes of a business as professional football is.
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In comment 15577395 rsjem1979 said:
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In comment 15577391 Andy in Boston said:
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amusing. Pretty sure all owners make the final call in the NFL....after all if you own a business, that's the way it works.
Well the Mara family sucks at it and has since the 1960s.
4 Super Bowls - how many NFL franchises have those ?
It took the NFL forcing Young onto Wellington Mara to get us the SBs in 1986 and 1990.
Young then brought in Ernie Accorsi as his assistant GM and then he was made GM.
So lets stop pretending that the Maras are the masterminds behind the 4 SB titles
I think you re missing something here, they were the owners, no?
Reminds me of Billy Martin with the Yanks. That tight control works to get a bad team out of the woods, but then breaks down.
Try to keep that in mind as you review coaching options in your mind. The guy who may seem like the perfect HC candidate may not be if he can't assemble a killer team of coordinators and other coaches.
I think Schoen gets it, and perhaps Mara too. I bet they're wondering what might have been had Judge been able to get a better OC to work with.
(2) It is clear, not only from Schoen's response to Tierney, but Mara's post-presser answer that got a bit snippy that he is not going to change the decision-making structure. He was blunt as you can be on that.
He doesn't appear to be the kind of guy that will "play nice" with the ownership overlords looking over his shoulder.
If the pick is Quinn - that's the Mara circle doing its thing.
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
Does anybody actually read articles objectively anymore?
In the interviews with the GM candidates Brian Flores' name kept coming up as a potential head coach that prospective GMs were saying that would want to talk to. Flores was already on tap to interview with a few other teams. So the New York Giants reached out to make sure he knew they were interested. WHY is a problem? Seriously
The Bears and the Vikings who both need GMs were reaching out to coaches before hiring a GM. You now have NINE teams without HCs and Flores name was among many of those teams. You want to contact him to say.. " hey coach, please talk to us before you make a final decision "
and thats problem???
unreal
Gotta give him that.
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
We actually don't know anything yet. Why do you keep posting things as fact?
Better question, which owners have 0 say in who gets hired to run their team and players? I'd really like to know because it sounds like its the entire league but us?
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Good news is that Schoen MAY be better than Gettleman (probably is) and Schoen MAY be able to convince Mara to do the right thing (debatable).
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
We actually don't know anything yet. Why do you keep posting things as fact?
Better question, which owners have 0 say in who gets hired to run their team and players? I'd really like to know because it sounds like its the entire league but us?
Because the new GM and current owner said so.
(2) It is clear, not only from Schoen's response to Tierney, but Mara's post-presser answer that got a bit snippy that he is not going to change the decision-making structure. He was blunt as you can be on that.
And he also said he has autonomy to overhaul the front office as he sees fit & has autonomy to make calls on the roster.
No owner just puts their head in the sand and disappears. That won’t ever happen here. If anything now they are eliminating the mystery around Chris Mara.
You know, I used to check that my kids did homework when they were young. But I didn’t do the work for them. Just chill.
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In comment 15577588 Eric from BBI said:
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Good news is that Schoen MAY be better than Gettleman (probably is) and Schoen MAY be able to convince Mara to do the right thing (debatable).
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
We actually don't know anything yet. Why do you keep posting things as fact?
Better question, which owners have 0 say in who gets hired to run their team and players? I'd really like to know because it sounds like its the entire league but us?
Because the new GM and current owner said so.
John Mara is putting his stamp of approval on the hire. That's about all i saw on it. Where did you see that he's picking the next HC?
Which owners operate differently?
What exactly is your point?
I don't care what other owners do.
I keep making this analogy and still will. If you try to plumb your own house and the end result is the basement is flooded. Hire a pro and get out of the way.
Does he trust Schoen? If so, let him hire the coach.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
Of course ownership is going to have a say. It's a collaboration.
But Schoen is leading search. Mara and Tisch give their opinions, ask their questions.
Schoen makes his pick. Then ownership either approves, or they keep digging.
That's the process. Mara hasn't lied about it
Q: This might be splitting hairs a little, but you said the GM would hire the coach. Joe said it would be collaborative, so who really has the final say?
A: It’s a collaboration. Listen, he’s not going to hire anybody that we don’t want and we’re certainly not going to hire anybody that he doesn’t want. But ownership always has the final approval over any decision like that. That’s just not going to change.
Q: Is it fair to say though that he has more say than the previous general managers in that regard?
A: No, I don’t think so. Our system has always been the same. We rely on the general manager. We rely on his advice, but at the end of the day, ownership has to approve it.
I don't care what other owners do.
I keep making this analogy and still will. If you try to plumb your own house and the end result is the basement is flooded. Hire a pro and get out of the way.
Does he trust Schoen? If so, let him hire the coach.
Sounds to me like he is. He said he we aren't hiring anyone Joe doesn't want (and vice versa). To me this sounds more like a checkered past situation than football ability being a deal breaker for Mara - see Bienemy, or even a Payton if he was available. And I get that, if he doesn't want to employ someone for ethical reasons, I 100% support that even if it has the chance of effecting wins and losses. Its still a business.
Yes, Mara has been interviewing HC's, but he didn't have a GM in place, and interviewing someone tells them of your interest. It can simply be a placeholder until the GM is in house. I also have to assume that ownership talked about potential HC's with the GM candidates, so it is very possible that Mara is going off of that list.
The Giants really have to stop operating as a reputation management firm for their QBs. it's been a problem since 2017.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
Or that maybe Schoen wasn't as high on Daboll as many suspected? I think we all fall into that narrative of if GM X worked with OC Y, they must want to work together again. That isn't always true.
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as I posted above, Quinn and Flores are probably the "safer" choices. They may be the better choices.
So if Mara was to overrule Schoen here, it might not be a bad thing.
BUT... it would also tell us that Schoen's influence isn't what was originally advertised.
Or that maybe Schoen wasn't as high on Daboll as many suspected? I think we all fall into that narrative of if GM X worked with OC Y, they must want to work together again. That isn't always true.
That is a very possible scenario. Maybe Schoen knows that Dorsey is really the magic behind Allen and the offense - totally possible.
Given the past several hires it is not unreasonable to want Mara especially to take a back seat. He admitted himself he has lost the trust of the fans. When comments come out that he possibly has a different favorite candidate than Schoen, it is cause for concern.
How that all became people being miserable shut-ins who hate the team or wild conspiracy theories is a bit shocking to me. Some skepticism of the process is certainly not unreasonable.
What I truly find surprising is the number of posters in the "Mara is picking the coach" camp, and the equally boisterous "You can only believe what you are told" camp.
My point exactly. While a few posts are over the top, the majority of posts seem to express concern about warning signs, not about massive conspiracies, but that word is being thrown around a lot by people who clearly don't know what it means.
Let’s see what happens under Schoen within the front office the next few months. That will determine things greatly.
I'm not sure how anyone can come away from yesterday's interviews and not retain the impression that it is pretty much same power structure.
The only difference is Schoen has replaced Gettleman, and eventually Schoen's influence will hopefully extend to other elements of the operation (i.e., scouting staff changes).
Bingo.
I think that is absolutely right. I think there are people who want to believe the problems were wiped away that easy and can't stand to hear anything that challenges that notion.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
I'm not sure how anyone can come away from yesterday's interviews and not retain the impression that it is pretty much same power structure.
The only difference is Schoen has replaced Gettleman, and eventually Schoen's influence will hopefully extend to other elements of the operation (i.e., scouting staff changes).
Me either, it was damned disappointing even tho part of me heard exactly what I expected to hear, especially from Mara.
And think it's reasonably skeptical to believe that the Mara inner circle simply replaced a yes-man GM with another one.
Time will tell.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
I don't think there is literally anyone on this board who believed Mara would have no input. Why would he sit in the interviews if he had no input. That's a silly strawman argument.
People are reacting to reports that Mara was both reaching out to HC candidates before a GM was in place, and at least one beat writer reported that Mara may prefer a different candidate than Schoen.
Skepticism...not stupidity.
Posters that think Schoen can just pick the guy and say "Hey John, we are hiring Brian Flores, contract should be done shortly" isn't thinking clearly.
The difference now is that Schoen clearly wants a HC that will be aligned with him in every step. If that happens, and Mara has no real issues with the coach, then Schoen will get his guy.
I also don't think it's crazy to think that in the interview Schoen mentioned that he would like to bring Daboll in and give him a good shot at being the new HC and the "inner circle" responding with "Yeah - sure he would be a great candidate, but we here in NY have been kind of burned by the the new HC thing a couple times in the recent past, what do you think about some other guys like FLores and QUinn that have been there before."
If you were Schoen and you want the job - which of course he did - what do you think his response would be????
Is he calling the shots in that scenario???
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
People who are posting things like "this is a troubling sign" are being called conspiracy theorists by a significant number of posters - and not the ones that are typically on the fringe.
It has been an extreme overreaction.
And think it's reasonably skeptical to believe that the Mara inner circle simply replaced a yes-man GM with another one.
Time will tell.
exactly
and its not just the HC
For all that he said at the season ending presser, Jones and Barkley were 100% coming back. Its not exactly a directive from ownership, but it might as well be.
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It seems a contingent of posters are perhaps so over past failures, they're unwilling to allow the skepticism into their minds. I get it, we all want a reversal of fortunes, but my instincts are the "collaborative" effort to find the new HC is aligning more as business as usual. Mara's comments as the presser yesterday only reinforcing what I found to be informing.
Skepticism is warranted. Definitive stamps on what's happening isn't.
Mike's correct, and the closest posters I've seen go near definitive are Eric and Terps, whose collective intuition is typically excellent.
who has Harbaugh interviewed with ?? NO ONE...
everyone sees right through Harbauagh trying to squeeze UM for more money
And this is why we get the overreactions. This is borderline hysterical.
The reporters didn't ask about Harbaugh because few believe he is really leaving Michigan. And some of what you hear in a press conference has to be taken with a grain of salt. Schoen isn't going to say "I will hire the coach and Jones hasn't shown shit so far in his career." If you expected to hear that you weren't thinking clearly.
Bad news... Schoen is not running the operation. Peppers was right.
Why do insist on pushing this agenda lately. This is exactly what Mara said the GM is responsible for and is consistent with what Getts did too.
"This will be a comprehensive search for our next general manager," said Mara. "We are looking for a person who demonstrates exceptional leadership and communication abilities, somebody who will oversee all aspects of our football operations, including player personnel, college scouting and coaching."
In addition, the new GM is leading the process to get a new Head Coach hired. Yes, he needs to get his hire approved by the owners...save me the weak conjecture.
How can you possibly keep saying the GM isn't running things based on the above?