Daniel Jones' 5th year option is estimated to be north of 21 million dollars for 2023, which would be fully guaranteed and the decision has to be made by May. Even if he were to have a tremendous 2022(which is far from guaranteed) it's tough to imagine his second contract would be much higher than $30m per year. So best case scenario they would saving $10m total against the cap for the total length of his contract.
You also have to figure the deal would be backloaded with the first year money significantly lower than the average, it could even belower than the $21m if that's what was needed. The 5th year option is inflexible, 1 year $21m guaranteed cap hit.
The math just doesn't work out. There's too much risk and too little reward regardless of how confident they are in him moving foward.
What's my mantra? "It can always get worse."
It's the Giants version of "Just win baby!"
It is NOT going to happen, imv
As has been stated by many in the other 50 threads on this, he will play out ‘22 and if he’s the goods, he gets a new contract or he’s tagged (not the best options in general)..
If he sucks, then he’ll be let go in FA and we’ll get some kind of compensatory pick.
That’s what’s going to happen, imo
Medium Pepsi
Quote:
if Schoen's first order of business was to pick-up DJ's option.
It is NOT going to happen, imv
As has been stated by many in the other 50 threads on this, he will play out ‘22 and if he’s the goods, he gets a new contract or he’s tagged (not the best options in general)..
If he sucks, then he’ll be let go in FA and we’ll get some kind of compensatory pick.
That’s what’s going to happen, imo
They would never release him unless seriously injured. If the Eagles could get a first round pick for Wentz, DJ would certainly be worth more than a compensatory pick.
There are only so many times someone says something to me before I believe them.
If the Giants brass believes this, the economics of paying Jones 30M over the next years has to be taken seriously.
The franchise tender for QBs in 2023 is going to be ~30M+. There is an economic benefit in locking in the price.
Yeah absolutely. I just dont think anyone should take it as a sign either way when they dont pick up his option.
I've seen enough to know he's at best a QB that's going to be replaced anyway (see Tannehill, Garappolo) so may as well do it sooner than later before commiting actual $$ to him
This is the GM who drafted Allen because of his cannon arm. He isn't sticking with a popgun.
There are only so many times someone says something to me before I believe them.
If the Giants brass believes this, the economics of paying Jones 30M over the next years has to be taken seriously.
The franchise tender for QBs in 2023 is going to be ~30M+. There is an economic benefit in locking in the price.
I have a hard time believing the giants will use any of the tags for Jones. Just seems unlike them. It will be either move on after 2022 or market rate extension, thats my guess anyway
They played poorly WITH him too.
Let's not kid ourselves into thinking Jones is anything more than a competent backup who is miscast as QB1. He'll get 2022 for sure, but, once again, he is going to have to A-Prove he can play without missing significant time to injury and B-Put the ball into the fucking endzone consistently.
What's a good barometer for production? 3700 yards and 25 td's? In today's NFL, those numbers actually kind of suck, but Jones has to start somewhere, no?
Yeah absolutely. I just dont think anyone should take it as a sign either way when they dont pick up his option.
Agree with this point and agree with the point you suggest, and christian states more expressly, that NYG is not going to want to take the franchise tag hit in 2023.
And the upshot is, if the option isn't picked up, every game in 2022 is going to be loaded with meaning as to whether the Giants should get an extension done.
It's not going to be an "oh well, we'll just wait to see how the season plays out" situation for the fans, the media, or NYG's decision makers.
If they pick it up it shows they are making wishful decisions and not logical ones. I don't expect there is even much discussion of picking it up.
Quote:
In comment 15577664 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
if Schoen's first order of business was to pick-up DJ's option.
It is NOT going to happen, imv
As has been stated by many in the other 50 threads on this, he will play out ‘22 and if he’s the goods, he gets a new contract or he’s tagged (not the best options in general)..
If he sucks, then he’ll be let go in FA and we’ll get some kind of compensatory pick.
That’s what’s going to happen, imo
They would never release him unless seriously injured. If the Eagles could get a first round pick for Wentz, DJ would certainly be worth more than a compensatory pick.
What I said/meant is that they’d let him explore FA..
But when the owner and GM go out of there way to say Jones got a raw deal and point to how little time he’s had in one system — it doesn’t sound like it’s a one and done situation to me.
Sounds like a guy they think got a raw deal and deserves a chance to develop in the same system.
I will be shocked he legitimate QB competition this summer.
He’s being handed the job, IMV
If they sign a McCoy/Gannon type backup and don't draft a QB high, you will see that they believe in Jones and are handing him (because he has not earned it) another year as the unquestioned starter.
If they sign a guy like Trubisky who is legitimate competition for the job, it will show that they are giving him a chance, but it may be a one and done year unless he shows something beyond what he has so far.
Obviously taking a guy at the top of the first or acquiring a guy like Russell Wilson shows they have seen enough of Jones.
What choice do the fans have? Through mismanagement and endless chances we are stuck with a non-competitive QB.
Awesome. A long term commitment to a QB who hasn't shown squat, in a league that is dominated by QB studs. Sounds like a great plan if you value stability over winning.
Even worse than the money though is the years. Daniel Jones is a bad starting QB. It is nearly impossible to be a good team with a bad starting QB. Everyone should know this.
If you build an absolute monster team with studs all over the roster, you can be pretty good with an average QB (see 49ers, who have a better QB than Jones). But you still have a ceiling and you still need to be +10 points on special teams to win a tough playoff game. And their management - who is not dumb - invested a lot in a high-risk QB while they have a win-now team. That's how bad they wanted to get off Jimmy.
We gave 3 years to this guy, who has literally never been a good QB in his life. Should we commit to Hernandez or pay $15 M to Lorenzo Carter because "we're not sure if they're good"? It's insanity. Should we be fine with Peart as a starting OT? Of course not.
But people want to do this at the QB position, which is more important than all of those positions combined? It's just inconceivable that people who claim to want the Giants to win would be advocating this.
Quote:
In comment 15577664 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
if Schoen's first order of business was to pick-up DJ's option.
It is NOT going to happen, imv
As has been stated by many in the other 50 threads on this, he will play out ‘22 and if he’s the goods, he gets a new contract or he’s tagged (not the best options in general)..
If he sucks, then he’ll be let go in FA and we’ll get some kind of compensatory pick.
That’s what’s going to happen, imo
They would never release him unless seriously injured. If the Eagles could get a first round pick for Wentz, DJ would certainly be worth more than a compensatory pick.
DJ's numbers aren't in the same ballpark as Wentz's and he's lead teams to the playoffs. Wentz is an above average QB but DJ isn't in his class.
This idea that DJ has trade value is crazy. The guy has ONE 300 yard passing game and is averaging less than a TD per game over the last 2 years? If you gave Glennon all the preseason snaps, he could do that.
Even worse than the money though is the years. Daniel Jones is a bad starting QB. It is nearly impossible to be a good team with a bad starting QB. Everyone should know this.
If you build an absolute monster team with studs all over the roster, you can be pretty good with an average QB (see 49ers, who have a better QB than Jones). But you still have a ceiling and you still need to be +10 points on special teams to win a tough playoff game. And their management - who is not dumb - invested a lot in a high-risk QB while they have a win-now team. That's how bad they wanted to get off Jimmy.
We gave 3 years to this guy, who has literally never been a good QB in his life. Should we commit to Hernandez or pay $15 M to Lorenzo Carter because "we're not sure if they're good"? It's insanity. Should we be fine with Peart as a starting OT? Of course not.
But people want to do this at the QB position, which is more important than all of those positions combined? It's just inconceivable that people who claim to want the Giants to win would be advocating this.
Great post.
But when the owner and GM go out of there way to say Jones got a raw deal and point to how little time he’s had in one system — it doesn’t sound like it’s a one and done situation to me.
Sounds like a guy they think got a raw deal and deserves a chance to develop in the same system.
If both Mara and Schoen genuinely feel similarly about Jones, then Jones is getting 2022 and 2023 so he can be in the same system with the same HC and OC for more than one year.
Which means they need to hire a HC and OC that feel similarly about Jones.
And, sorry, I don't buy the sympathy card Mara is dealing here with his "we've done everything to screw this kid up" mantra for Jones. What about Jones holding up his end of the bargain as the 6th pick in the draft?? You know, that thing a franchise QB is supposed to do...
I am perfectly fine with him Being given the opportunity This season But that means that he will not have his 5th year option picked up.
I am perfectly fine with him Being given the opportunity This season But that means that he will not have his 5th year option picked up.
But Jones doesn't have to earn the 5th year because he has the built-in excuse by Mara - Jones deserves stability, which is multiple years with the same staff/team to be truly evaluated.
In essence, Jones is getting a Mulligan in 2022.
& the amusing thing to me is that the Giants, in all likelihood, are going to suck this fall. It isn't like Jones is going to be stepping into a situation where all the pieces are in place for the team to win & he looks like a good QB, which I don't think he is. Odds are he looks like he has his first 3 seasons: a backup QB in this league.
From all accounts, nice kid, hard worker...but what are we doing here? If the goal is to win, he's not the answer.
I hope that Schoen wants his own QB-most GMs do-& this is all lip service so that we draft someone this spring or '22, when we'll be in the running for Stroud or Young. As for Mara, who knows? He's insane enough to think DJ is going to be a Super Bowl winning QB one day, to which he needs to be drug tested.
Mara wants to win. But I think he wants to at least turn the corner with a key piece that he endorsed before Schoen arrived. And that's Jones.
He's already embarrassed missing with Gettleman and another HC. Missing with Eli's successor after such a high investment gives Mara the dreaded trifecta of failures - GM, HC and franchise QB.
And we haven't even included the Barkley piece.
Quote:
... But in order for the 5th year bonus to be picked up he would have had to have earned it Last season.
I am perfectly fine with him Being given the opportunity This season But that means that he will not have his 5th year option picked up.
But Jones doesn't have to earn the 5th year because he has the built-in excuse by Mara - Jones deserves stability, which is multiple years with the same staff/team to be truly evaluated.
In essence, Jones is getting a Mulligan in 2022.
I'm not ready to by into assuming that merra is horrible and doesn't wanna win.
Believing that truly spoil's being a fan because that's not something that any of us are ever going to change...clown pix notwithstanding.
I have believed that you will be a placeholder this season For some time and that's all I believe he will be.
The owner the GM and the coaches can say all the right things because after all That's their job... Put the players on the field in the best position to Succeed.
Making Statements belittling the quarterback is not putting the team in the best position to succeed.
I don't expect Daniel Jones to get a 2nd contract... I also don't expect the giants to pick up his 5th year option this spring.
What are you going to hold your breath?
I get why not big cap hit yadda yadda yadda. But it’s only one year what is he has a decent year this year and he does ok and they sign him long term then we are on the hook for however long that is. You don’t sign him then who you gonna get? No guarantees we will be picking in a spot to get one next year. Also if you don’t pick it up and the new staff is actually competent and he improves a lot then you would have scramble to resign him .
Gun to my head would I pick it up probably not but I can understand why they could
Schoen actually has evaluator skills and no link to Jones. He will see that he cannot tie his future to a crutch. His words used the other day were actually not too much, they were what a prudent GM on his first day of work should say with both his boss and Jones in the room.
You may have wanted or advised Schoen to say something more indifferent but as a fan you have that luxury, he doesn’t. I like this guy and things will indeed improve.
I can’t describe how much better I feel now that Gettleman is gone. What a complete waste of time this ridiculous last few years has been....
& the amusing thing to me is that the Giants, in all likelihood, are going to suck this fall. It isn't like Jones is going to be stepping into a situation where all the pieces are in place for the team to win & he looks like a good QB, which I don't think he is. Odds are he looks like he has his first 3 seasons: a backup QB in this league.
From all accounts, nice kid, hard worker...but what are we doing here? If the goal is to win, he's not the answer.
I hope that Schoen wants his own QB-most GMs do-& this is all lip service so that we draft someone this spring or '22, when we'll be in the running for Stroud or Young. As for Mara, who knows? He's insane enough to think DJ is going to be a Super Bowl winning QB one day, to which he needs to be drug tested.
That’s the biggest concern for me. If Jones surprises us all and balls out, awesome. But Maras comments make me fear that they’re going to pour resources into fixing the offense for 2022, which absolutely should not be the play. It’s a long term fix. I could see a scenario where Jones goes somewhere else and has a Cousins like career. Mara and DG have dealt him a bad hand.