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I am warming up to Flores

jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 11:04 am
as head coach of the Giants. I would be fine with DaBoll too though not Leslie Frazier (he just doesn't seem like THE guy with a young team).

I am hoping we get David Culley on board with the Offense- he really had a nice hand in keeping a very over matched Houston team together and Mills developed nicely when thrown into the fire.

Don't want any of Miami's sloppy seconds  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/27/2022 11:05 am : link
and a guy who had a multitude of issues behind the scenes and working with his staff. There are also a very limited amount of good OC's, and we need an offensive boost in the worst way possible.
The tweet about  
Costy16 : 1/27/2022 11:06 am : link
him wanting Darrell Bevell to be the OC if he gets a new HC gig is quite worrisome to me. Bevell was brutal the last two years in his tenure in Seattle.
You shouldn’t  
Brandon Walsh : 1/27/2022 11:07 am : link
Mara wants him so we should hope for the opposite.

His offenses and offensive coordinator decisions were a joke.

He will wear on this team within 3 years.

Go for the homerun and get the offensive mastermind in Daboll.

Something about him I don’t like  
Saos1n : 1/27/2022 11:07 am : link
Seems like a hard ass without any character to him. Similar to Judge. Not sure how that would go over in the locker room.

Ultimately, I want someone who can develop a QB, because we don’t have our answer yet (considering his play) and we may be looking again, next year.

The reports of Flores not wanting Tua, have me concerned about what that plan looks like going forward. Not a huge Tua fan, personally, but how you go about your business is important

Really want Daboll, but expecting something different
If not Daboll...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/27/2022 11:07 am : link
Give me Flores.
Main  
Toth029 : 1/27/2022 11:07 am : link
Issue from Flores is the conservative nature I've seen his offenses have been. If you disliked Judge for that, I don't feel like you will enjoy Flores for it.

I don't feel like the Tua/Grier situation is amicable as it sounds. A lot of moving parts in there. From what I've seen, plenty of players like him.
I will say this  
jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 11:09 am : link
BB wasn't loved entirely by Browns fans either. I am not saying he isn't without question but, if it isn't Daboll (who I am fine with) then it sure better not be Frazier. Flores I can deal with as long as he has learned from his mistakes before.

I liked him before, no reason not to like him now  
UConn4523 : 1/27/2022 11:11 am : link
if Schoen feels like he can work with him, than that's all I need to hear. He took a bottom feeder to a winning record (and playoffs). He's one of if not the most qualified option out there.
RE: You shouldn’t  
UConn4523 : 1/27/2022 11:12 am : link
In comment 15577899 Brandon Walsh said:
Quote:
Mara wants him so we should hope for the opposite.

His offenses and offensive coordinator decisions were a joke.

He will wear on this team within 3 years.

Go for the homerun and get the offensive mastermind in Daboll.


If we aren't winning by year 3 than he's gone anyway. What's the difference?
I am rooting for Flores  
Dnew15 : 1/27/2022 11:13 am : link
at this point.

I'd love to see how things happen at Jints Central with him at the helm.
He’s a perfectly acceptable hire in a vacuum  
Metnut : 1/27/2022 11:14 am : link
My only issue is the process. If Schoen wants Daboll but Mara is forcing Flores, I’d be worried about the process going forward.
Flores was an ok coach  
Essex : 1/27/2022 11:14 am : link
who did probably a bit better with his talent than he should have.
Doug Pederson won a Super Bowl with a backup QB and made the playoffs 3 of his last 4 years in Philly in this division. Dan Quinn was the DC of the Legion of Boom and vastly improved defense in Dallas, and "oh, he made the Super Bowl." But, yeah, let's go with Flores--makes a ton of sense.
Also Flores is a like Judge 2.0  
Essex : 1/27/2022 11:17 am : link
we are hiring a supposed leader as opposed to an X and O's guy. Flores was never a coordinator before he got his HC job. It. just seems like a silly hire after the Judge experiment.
The only problem with hiring Flores is we will have to  
Jimmy Googs : 1/27/2022 11:19 am : link
read the 800+ pages of the Warren Commission report to determine how it happened...
RE: The only problem with hiring Flores is we will have to  
Johnny5 : 1/27/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15577945 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
read the 800+ pages of the Warren Commission report to determine how it happened...

lol. Now that's funny
We MIGHT get some  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 11:25 am : link
sense after Flores tries to explain all in his interview..I’m rather certain that Flores has been thoroughly vetted throughout the league besides Miami (Ross is a prick and many coaches do NOT get along with their GMs, i.e Parcells/Young, Johnson/Jones etc., etc.)..

So coming into today’s face to face, they will have their in-person read on the guy. In fact, the more guys sitting in on the interview, the better, at least in this case, imv..

Something will leak out, even a vibe or two, I believe
I'm with Metnut  
arniefez : 1/27/2022 11:29 am : link
Things going poorly working for the owner in Miami is not a disqualified for me. It actually goes in my plus column. But if he's not the guy Schoen wants that would be more of the same.

Flores is my first choice because I want to root for a defense that creates a home field advantage. I agree the offensive issues in Miami are problematic. Without a really good OC it could be a real issue.

We have seen so many coordinators promoted to HC because they're working with elite QBs. The NFL in general and the Giants obviously really struggle to identify the HC skill set needed. At least Flores has done it and won some games.
RE: RE: You shouldn’t  
Brandon Walsh : 1/27/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15577920 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15577899 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


Mara wants him so we should hope for the opposite.

His offenses and offensive coordinator decisions were a joke.

He will wear on this team within 3 years.

Go for the homerun and get the offensive mastermind in Daboll.




If we aren't winning by year 3 than he's gone anyway. What's the difference?


Well hasnt he “won” the past two years and still managed to alienate his coaching staff and front office ?

Look at Harbaugh in SF- all he did was win and the whole organization hated each other.

Sustained success would be nice for once.

That seems to work with an offensive system that works with a GM / HC working together.

Flores has proven he’s incapable of both so far.
RE: You shouldn’t  
Rory : 1/27/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15577899 Brandon Walsh said:
Quote:
Mara wants him so we should hope for the opposite.

His offenses and offensive coordinator decisions were a joke.

He will wear on this team within 3 years.

Go for the homerun and get the offensive mastermind in Daboll.


that's weird.

also Daboll is not a HR guarantee either.
Some of these Flores takes border on submoronic.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/27/2022 11:32 am : link
Like Judge? Sure, except for the fact that he’s proven he can do the job, which makes him exactly nothing like Joe Judge.

People are dismissing winning like that shit is easy to do. The last time the Giants had 2 straight winning seasons, the team still had all of the players who won both the 07 and 11 titles. The last time the Dolphins had 2 straight winning seasons, Ei Manning was still in college! And all of this happened with a roster that needed to be rebuilt and still isn’t particularly good. The Giants would be lucky to get Brian Flores.
RE: I'm with Metnut  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 11:32 am : link
In comment 15577985 arniefez said:
Quote:
Things going poorly working for the owner in Miami is not a disqualified for me. It actually goes in my plus column. But if he's not the guy Schoen wants that would be more of the same.

Flores is my first choice because I want to root for a defense that creates a home field advantage. I agree the offensive issues in Miami are problematic. Without a really good OC it could be a real issue.

We have seen so many coordinators promoted to HC because they're working with elite QBs. The NFL in general and the Giants obviously really struggle to identify the HC skill set needed. At least Flores has done it and won some games.


Aside from technically the owner, does Shoen get the final say over the HC’s OC preference?
I am not  
averagejoe : 1/27/2022 11:33 am : link
We need a HC that can do one thing. Fix the offense. He ain't the guy.
Stop Worrying About Flores...  
Jim in Tampa : 1/27/2022 11:33 am : link
I'm hoping for either Flores or Quinn (I go back and forth as to which I think would be better).

But I've stopped worring about Flores regarding his time as a HC in Miami and here's why...

I fully expect both Mara and Schoen to talk to as many people as possible in Miami (owner, GM, current players, ex-players, etc.) to get an accurate assement as to why Flores didn't work out as the Dolphins HC. If the Giants get bad reports regarding Flores, they won't hire him.
The only way Flores gets hired is if the Giants feel that his dismissal was more about bad management (Dolphins front office) as opposed to the job that Flores did.
RE: RE: I'm with Metnut  
jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15577999 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15577985 arniefez said:


Quote:


Things going poorly working for the owner in Miami is not a disqualified for me. It actually goes in my plus column. But if he's not the guy Schoen wants that would be more of the same.

Flores is my first choice because I want to root for a defense that creates a home field advantage. I agree the offensive issues in Miami are problematic. Without a really good OC it could be a real issue.

We have seen so many coordinators promoted to HC because they're working with elite QBs. The NFL in general and the Giants obviously really struggle to identify the HC skill set needed. At least Flores has done it and won some games.



Aside from technically the owner, does Shoen get the final say over the HC’s OC preference?


Based on his interview this morning, he seemed pretty adamant about having the right Offensive staff and scheme so i would say he has to at the VERY least be agreeable if not his actual preference to the OC choice.
Best thing about Flores:  
Lambuth_Special : 1/27/2022 11:34 am : link
He'll pull the plug on Jones quickly and force Mara and Schoen's hand quickly if he doesn't improve (provided we believe Mara and Schoen's words yesterday).
RE: Best thing about Flores:  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15578007 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
He'll pull the plug on Jones quickly and force Mara and Schoen's hand quickly if he doesn't improve (provided we believe Mara and Schoen's words yesterday).


Could be..I’d be surprised if Flores hasn’t made it known about his feelings on Jones
RE: RE: You shouldn’t  
Brandon Walsh : 1/27/2022 11:37 am : link
In comment 15577995 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15577899 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


Mara wants him so we should hope for the opposite.

His offenses and offensive coordinator decisions were a joke.

He will wear on this team within 3 years.

Go for the homerun and get the offensive mastermind in Daboll.




that's weird.

also Daboll is not a HR guarantee either.


Obviously its not a homerun. That doesn’t apply to this cycle or any cycle since homeruns dont hit the market.

Look around the NFL. Look at the Championship games. Offensive coaches with their own system. Offenses win in the NFL.

Buffalo was FULLY Daboll’s system and there are plenty of articles / facts out there to support this. He obviously also evolved from his stints from over a decade ago. Surprisingly to some here - that’s what good coaches do.

Flores with Bill O'Brien as OC  
jeff57 : 1/27/2022 11:37 am : link
Would be better than Culley
Does Flores seem like  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/27/2022 11:37 am : link
a guy that would be in “lockstep” with Schoen? But who the hell knows what really happened in Miami?
RE: Something about him I don’t like  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/27/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15577900 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Seems like a hard ass without any character to him. Similar to Judge. Not sure how that would go over in the locker room.

Ultimately, I want someone who can develop a QB, because we don’t have our answer yet (considering his play) and we may be looking again, next year.

The reports of Flores not wanting Tua, have me concerned about what that plan looks like going forward. Not a huge Tua fan, personally, but how you go about your business is important

Really want Daboll, but expecting something different


This is how I view him too. A more successful Judge.
Flores  
Sammo85 : 1/27/2022 11:38 am : link
is known to play favorites with players - it caused issues down in Miami.

Also - if he had issues with Tua as his QB, he honestly might not make it to Week Three with Jones in terms of relationship.

I still think this is Daboll's job to lose.
RE: Best thing about Flores:  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/27/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15578007 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
He'll pull the plug on Jones quickly and force Mara and Schoen's hand quickly if he doesn't improve (provided we believe Mara and Schoen's words yesterday).


Flores wouldn't have more power than Schoen and Mara. Come on. Mara and Schoen would have full power over the new head coach.
RE: Flores  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15578025 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
is known to play favorites with players - it caused issues down in Miami.

Also - if he had issues with Tua as his QB, he honestly might not make it to Week Three with Jones in terms of relationship.

I still think this is Daboll's job to lose.


But many coaches do, no
Flores  
Giants : 1/27/2022 11:41 am : link
No to Flores too many red flags
RE: Flores with Bill O'Brien as OC  
bw in dc : 1/27/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15578020 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Would be better than Culley


O'Brien, btw, was at Arch Manning's basketball game the other night - yes, basketball! - with Saban. I get the feeling he's got another year with Saban.
RE: Does Flores seem like  
Lambuth_Special : 1/27/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15578023 Tittle 9 20 64 said:
Quote:
a guy that would be in “lockstep” with Schoen? But who the hell knows what really happened in Miami?


One thing I think could be positive - and not to dole out stereotypes - is that Flores strikes very much as an 'alpha' personality while Schoen is more thoughtful/analytical. That could end up being a positive complementary relationship if Flores has a strong idea about the type of team he wants to build and Schoen has the knowledge to deliver it.
RE: Don't want any of Miami's sloppy seconds  
Spiciest Memelord : 1/27/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15577891 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
and a guy who had a multitude of issues behind the scenes and working with his staff. There are also a very limited amount of good OC's, and we need an offensive boost in the worst way possible.


Pathetic Mara-Tish chimera are eyeballing Miami sloppy seconds wtf
RE: RE: Does Flores seem like  
Tittle 9 20 64 : 1/27/2022 11:46 am : link
In comment 15578044 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
In comment 15578023 Tittle 9 20 64 said:


Quote:


a guy that would be in “lockstep” with Schoen? But who the hell knows what really happened in Miami?



One thing I think could be positive - and not to dole out stereotypes - is that Flores strikes very much as an 'alpha' personality while Schoen is more thoughtful/analytical. That could end up being a positive complementary relationship if Flores has a strong idea about the type of team he wants to build and Schoen has the knowledge to deliver it.


Credible frame of thought.
Also of possible note:  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 11:52 am : link
What’s/who’s to say he hasn’t learned from his mistakes. Many HCs improve the second time around, no? No guarantee that he will have, but far from out of the question, imv
Here's a good discussion on Flores  
Johnny5 : 1/27/2022 11:52 am : link
Ignore the title, lol. It's not just Ryan discussing him, it's Shefter, it's Hasselbeck, it's Bruschi, etc.
ESPN commentary on Flores - ( New Window )
Again, what Flores did this year showed he's a good coach  
mikeinbloomfield : 1/27/2022 11:56 am : link
His roster certainly didn't do him any favors. Tua may be good but he is limited physically, besides being injury prone. And they still won 9 games. The year before that, they were the first team in years to miss the playoffs with 10 wins with Tua and Fitzpatrick.

Small sample size, sure. But he's done some good work. I could care less if he can't get along with his coordinators, that's gossip. All I care about is results.

Daboll would be fine too, although his record without Allen isn't fantastic. He would also be a first time HC. Given the amount of change happening in the org, I don't know if that's a great idea.
RE: Here's a good discussion on Flores  
Big Blue '56 : 1/27/2022 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15578075 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Ignore the title, lol. It's not just Ryan discussing him, it's Shefter, it's Hasselbeck, it's Bruschi, etc. ESPN commentary on Flores - ( New Window )


Everyone should watch this
Creative Dissonance?  
Rafflee : 1/27/2022 12:10 pm : link
I'm OUT on everybody agreeing all the time.... I want Argument in the room from all well skilled and aggressive inputs. Teamwork isn't about Agreement at Step 1. Commitment to an action plan based on great inputs is most important, and I Want "the football stuff" 99% betwen HC and GM.

As for Player Selection....some of that is sheer Budget. The other part is about the high profil guys you bring in. If the owner is dead set against Watson, then He does get to make that call, specifically.
If you are warming to Flores, the PR campaign is doing its job  
BH28 : 1/27/2022 12:10 pm : link
Being a head coach is more about W-L, you have to be able to work with the front office as well. And if Miami canned him for being successful, you have to think that his inability to work with front office was too fractutured to overcome his success, which says a lot.

I am sure he could learn from his mistakes, but how much time will he get to implement change being unemployed for 2 months?
RE: RE: Here's a good discussion on Flores  
jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15578101 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15578075 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


Ignore the title, lol. It's not just Ryan discussing him, it's Shefter, it's Hasselbeck, it's Bruschi, etc. ESPN commentary on Flores - ( New Window )



Everyone should watch this


AGREED! People need to stop saying he is like Judge.. They are not alike. Flores has won in this league with the deck stacked against him and his teams are better the second half of the year each season.
RE: If you are warming to Flores, the PR campaign is doing its job  
jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15578141 BH28 said:
Quote:
Being a head coach is more about W-L, you have to be able to work with the front office as well. And if Miami canned him for being successful, you have to think that his inability to work with front office was too fractutured to overcome his success, which says a lot.

I am sure he could learn from his mistakes, but how much time will he get to implement change being unemployed for 2 months?


You are making statements with no knowledge of what really happened in Miami.
i'm torn on flores  
GiantsFan84 : 1/27/2022 12:15 pm : link
i think he's a good coach

but

he single handedly cost miami a playoff birth by benching fitzpatrick for tua. the giants did something somewhat similar when they benched kurt warner for eli, so maybe people here won't knock him for that, but that was a very questionable move at the time

he burns through offensive coordinators every year and seems difficult to work with. mara just said how they screwed jones up by having new coaches every other year. if he believes that, why would he even look at flores with his track record. once again this is why you hire offensive head coaches
being a head coach is actually not more than W/L's  
Eric on Li : 1/27/2022 12:16 pm : link
W-L record is exactly the job. And the Head Coach is exponentially more important than the GM. Want to know how I know that? Because HC are paid exponentially more than GMs. Even Joe Judge's salary was almost double what the average GM makes.
RE: Something about him I don’t like  
Section331 : 1/27/2022 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15577900 Saos1n said:
Quote:
Seems like a hard ass without any character to him. Similar to Judge. Not sure how that would go over in the locker room.

Ultimately, I want someone who can develop a QB, because we don’t have our answer yet (considering his play) and we may be looking again, next year.

The reports of Flores not wanting Tua, have me concerned about what that plan looks like going forward. Not a huge Tua fan, personally, but how you go about your business is important

Really want Daboll, but expecting something different


I see zero evidence that MIA players didn't play their asses off for him, so I don't know where the locker room issues come from. Year 1, with what was overwhelmingly regarded as the worst roster in the league, they go 5-4 after an 0-7 start, including a win v a Pats team playing for a bye.

Year 2, a slightly improved roster with an inconsistent rookie QB goes 10-6 and barely misses a playoff spot.

Year 3, after a brutal 1-7 start, they win 7 in a row. How does any of that sound like a guy who had an issue in the locker room? It sounds more like a guy who may be a hard-ass, but has the respect of the players.

Look, there was a lot of crap about him flying out of Miami after he was hired. Maybe some was true, maybe some wasn't, but I cannot understand for the life of me why so many are so willing to uncritically accept what the Dolphins decided to leak out, as if they had no reason to lie.

Many of the things are almost certainly BS. It is hardly unusual for a team to burn a coach after he's out the door (Red Sox were infamous for it, my Mets a bit too). We have no idea how he felt about Tua, we only know that he was willing to make a QB change when he felt he needed one.
RE: Here's a good discussion on Flores  
cosmicj : 1/27/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15578075 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
Ignore the title, lol. It's not just Ryan discussing him, it's Shefter, it's Hasselbeck, it's Bruschi, etc. ESPN commentary on Flores - ( New Window )


Did you catch the speculation by the panel that Tua replacing Fitzpatrick as Miami QB last year wasn’t Flores’ decision? Looks like Tua’s ability is a divisive issue in that franchise.
I would really question some of the definitive statements  
cosmicj : 1/27/2022 12:37 pm : link
About Flores and his behavior made on this thread. We don’t know what happened down there - let’s say it and stop spinning stories.
Cosmic  
Johnny5 : 1/27/2022 12:39 pm : link
Yeah... crazy lol. Seems like there is a ton of spin coming out of Miami, I tend to believe that Flores is getting the shit end.
RE: RE: If you are warming to Flores, the PR campaign is doing its job  
BH28 : 1/27/2022 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15578151 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15578141 BH28 said:


Quote:


Being a head coach is more about W-L, you have to be able to work with the front office as well. And if Miami canned him for being successful, you have to think that his inability to work with front office was too fractutured to overcome his success, which says a lot.

I am sure he could learn from his mistakes, but how much time will he get to implement change being unemployed for 2 months?



You are making statements with no knowledge of what really happened in Miami.


That's why I said 'if'. No one will ever know what really happened so we are stuck with reading between the lines.

Ask yourself this: is Miami so incompetent they would fire a winning coach or was Flores relationship with FO too abrasive to overcome winning? Those are the two questions it comes down to

Each side is doing their PR spin on it. I believe that no org would fire a winning coach unless their were behind the scenes issues. So I think there are issues that need to be thoroughly vetted before making a decision on Flores.

When you see reports that the Giants love him before he even steps foot in the building, that gives me pause.
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