to Coordinators. Who will Daboll bring, and who will Flores bring?
Lousy coordinators sunk Pat Shurmur. I think that will be the problem with Flores, I think he has a bad rep with coordinators (so he won't get the high quality ones the team needs) so I want Daboll.
he wants everyone on the same page and he wants someone who can put together a good coaching staff. We really don't know anything, but it seems Daboll is more likely to be on the same page and Flores to have more heft to hire good staff since he has been a head coach. Maybe he doesn't have an advantage hiring staff and maybe Shoen has his doubts about a newbie head coach.
But really we don't know how he feels about the two of them. But we can take for granted that he has told us what he wants. If he has been told he has control over football and he defers to Mara over politeness, that's a bad sign about Shoen. If he gets convinced, that's different.
I'm not in love with either but they both seem like solid choices. I don't want Quinn or Frazier.
I was more in the Daboll camp because GM/HC chemistry is key and I'd feel comfortable about that with him as the hire. But I've been buying the pro-Flores arguments on here lately, I see the benefits of a more experienced HC like him.
Honestly, neither of these guys impresses me "in the moment" like Joe Judge did. So I'm just not going to stress out about this, who knows what the right choice is? I'd feel comfortable with either one.
I wish there were more candidates especially Offensive candidates. Im out on Bienemy. In my opinion without Mahomes there is nothing to make him a serious candidate. We dont have a Mahomes and there may never be another like him.
to join the rest of the NFL. LA, SF, KC and Cincy. Which one is where they are at because of defense? Creative offenses dominate in the NFL today. I'll ask this: when was the last time you heard an announcer look at a Giants' offensive play and comment on how well designed it was? The Giants most explosive offensive players are Barkley and Toney. Watch the Bucs. No matter who is playing wide receiver, they are getting wide open - and fast - in part because of well designed plays. Grayson, Johnson, even Perriman came in and was wide open. But if you put Mike Evans on the Giants he spend half the game running 7 yard curls. We need a coaching staff that maximizes the players' abilities.
Give me Daboll, and hopefully he can bring Dorsey. But that gets tricky, because once Daboll is hired, Dorsey will likely be promoted to OC, and then the Giants can't get him.
Schoen prefers and Mara doesn’t want. Assuming Daboll, given their relationship and Mara’s infatuation with anyone who has been touched by the hand of Belichick
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Schoen prefers and Mara doesn’t want. Assuming Daboll, given their relationship and Mara’s infatuation with anyone who has been touched by the hand of Belichick
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Because after this hiring cycle, he gets more and more irrelevant as new candidates continue to emerge.
I doubt he'd come to the Giants as a DC, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him go somewhere as DC to stay in the coaching universe if he loses out on the game of musical chairs.
Daboll is the only one and he has obvious ties to Schoen. All the other candidates are defensive minded. Is Mara still feeling the sting from McAdoo and Shurmur?
And that it's hard for anybody to know. So anything I said would be a fairly uneducated guess.
My preference is Daboll. A lot of uncertainty with both, but with Daboll we can be pretty sure we are getting 1) a good partnership with the GM and 2) a reasonably creative offensive mind. We need many other things from an HC as well, but having some key elements guaranteed is a good start.
Flores's ability to get along with people is concerning.
But if he's the guy I'm fine with that. I go into these things with an open mind. Each candidate is qualified. As we see them perform we get more info and refine our opinions.
be an offensive minded head coach. Agree with Eric that I wish we were interviewing more guys but Daboll is the only reasonable option based on the current list of candidates.
If you're asking me what type of team I want to root for
It's an attacking defense team. Unfortunately under the NFL rules in 2022 I don't think an NFL team can win without a high scoring offense. So if my only choices are Daboll and Flores my heart says the defense guy but the reality is the Giants have to fix their offense. It's non operational. So I guess Daboll would be a better choice even though I've seen nothing from him that inspires any hope he's going to be a good HC. There seem to be better DC options than OC options. But that doesn't mean the Giants will get any of the top DCs available. I hope they do if Daboll is the choice. Whoever they hire I'll support them and understand they are starting from the bottom of the league.
Daboll positives:
1) Offensive side of the ball aligns with NFL slant to promote offense / scoring
2) Likely on the same page with Schoen
3) Demonstrated success record with Josh Allen
Daboll negatives:
1) No prior NFL (or anywhere?) HC experience
2) Don't know if success in Buffalo mostly / solely due to Allen's skill set
Flores positives:
1) Prior NFL head coaching experience
2) Strong finish to end of 2021 season
Flores negatives:
1) Fired by Miami in spite of strong finish; why?
2) Rumors of poor communication skills, inflexibility
3) Defensive side coach not "in vogue" in NFL
4) From the less than stellar Belichick coaching tree
5) Might keep Patrick Graham as DC
6) Rumors John Mara's favorite candidate (George Costanza factor)
7) Might not be on same page as Schoen
My two cents.
I think the pool of GM candidates was much stronger
Not excited by any candidates. Not thrilled with yet another 1st time HC. Not thrilled with a DC being hired as a HC. Not thrilled with the red flags on Flores. And definitely no to a college HC with no experience with the high priced babies in the NFL. Very underwhelming choices.
my 2 cents is Flores by a nose because he's done it. 10-6 in 2020, 9-8 this year with a not great team and kept the, playing despite a terrible start. But he does have some red flags.
Daboll has never been THE guy, who knows how he'll handle it?
Also agree with those who stated that they should be casting a wider net.
Daboll positives:
1) Offensive side of the ball aligns with NFL slant to promote offense / scoring
2) Likely on the same page with Schoen
3) Demonstrated success record with Josh Allen
Daboll negatives:
1) No prior NFL (or anywhere?) HC experience
2) Don't know if success in Buffalo mostly / solely due to Allen's skill set
Flores positives:
1) Prior NFL head coaching experience
2) Strong finish to end of 2021 season
Flores negatives:
1) Fired by Miami in spite of strong finish; why?
2) Rumors of poor communication skills, inflexibility
3) Defensive side coach not "in vogue" in NFL
4) From the less than stellar Belichick coaching tree
5) Might keep Patrick Graham as DC
6) Rumors John Mara's favorite candidate (George Costanza factor)
7) Might not be on same page as Schoen
My two cents.
You could make the argument that Daboll is part of the New England coaching tree. He spent a lot of years there (two stints).
I believe the Giants will be drafting a QB in 2023. I want the HC that can lead a very good/elite D with a offense that is built off the running game. That is the most realistic scenario for a rookie QB and one where history has shown you can win a championship.
I have been pro Flores but he has to have a plan for the O. I don't mind if he bangs head with the guys in the suits once in a while. I am more interested in someone that can get a team to believe and gets them to play big in the biggest games culminating in a championship. Usually those HC's are very hard, demanding and hold people accountable. In the end they build trust and a unified team that shows up when needed most.
How about that to miller a thread?
How about that to miller a thread?
You can add Billick if you’d like :p
I guess, but I’d rather have Fangio or Wink Martindale as the DC
Lousy coordinators sunk Pat Shurmur. I think that will be the problem with Flores, I think he has a bad rep with coordinators (so he won't get the high quality ones the team needs) so I want Daboll.
How about that to miller a thread?
I kind of wish they didn't need to interview HC candidates every two years.
But really we don't know how he feels about the two of them. But we can take for granted that he has told us what he wants. If he has been told he has control over football and he defers to Mara over politeness, that's a bad sign about Shoen. If he gets convinced, that's different.
I like what I see in Daboll too. I would be OK with either.
That is literally the biggest shortcoming he has. He has show no ability to assemble an offensive staff.
I was more in the Daboll camp because GM/HC chemistry is key and I'd feel comfortable about that with him as the hire. But I've been buying the pro-Flores arguments on here lately, I see the benefits of a more experienced HC like him.
Honestly, neither of these guys impresses me "in the moment" like Joe Judge did. So I'm just not going to stress out about this, who knows what the right choice is? I'd feel comfortable with either one.
How about that to miller a thread?
Would like to see at least 1 other Offensive HC option
If there are other, more significant, topics related to the Giants right now, you should definitely start a thread on one of those topics.
Before you do, what are those topics?
Give me Daboll, and hopefully he can bring Dorsey. But that gets tricky, because once Daboll is hired, Dorsey will likely be promoted to OC, and then the Giants can't get him.
What about his life?
True, but we're just a bunch of idiots debating it on a message board.
John Mara is an idiot signing the checks.
Hopefully they discuss this in the interviews
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Hopefully they discuss this in the interviews
Flores has never been a defensive cooridinator as far as I know
Quote:
Daboll as HC and Flores as DC?
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Good point. Didn’t think about that
To be fair, Daboll also worked under Belichick.
Quote:
Daboll as HC and Flores as DC?
Why would Flores do this, he get paid to sit home. If he takes a DC role and demotes himself all he is doing id taking the money which gets paid to the Dolphins to offset his contract he signed with them. It is either HC or bust if I was Flores.
Because after this hiring cycle, he gets more and more irrelevant as new candidates continue to emerge.
I doubt he'd come to the Giants as a DC, but I wouldn't be shocked to see him go somewhere as DC to stay in the coaching universe if he loses out on the game of musical chairs.
My preference is Daboll. A lot of uncertainty with both, but with Daboll we can be pretty sure we are getting 1) a good partnership with the GM and 2) a reasonably creative offensive mind. We need many other things from an HC as well, but having some key elements guaranteed is a good start.
Flores's ability to get along with people is concerning.
But if he's the guy I'm fine with that. I go into these things with an open mind. Each candidate is qualified. As we see them perform we get more info and refine our opinions.
1) Offensive side of the ball aligns with NFL slant to promote offense / scoring
2) Likely on the same page with Schoen
3) Demonstrated success record with Josh Allen
Daboll negatives:
1) No prior NFL (or anywhere?) HC experience
2) Don't know if success in Buffalo mostly / solely due to Allen's skill set
Flores positives:
1) Prior NFL head coaching experience
2) Strong finish to end of 2021 season
Flores negatives:
1) Fired by Miami in spite of strong finish; why?
2) Rumors of poor communication skills, inflexibility
3) Defensive side coach not "in vogue" in NFL
4) From the less than stellar Belichick coaching tree
5) Might keep Patrick Graham as DC
6) Rumors John Mara's favorite candidate (George Costanza factor)
7) Might not be on same page as Schoen
My two cents.
Not excited by any of the HC candidates. I would like an expanded search.
Are there no college coaches worth an interview?
Daboll has never been THE guy, who knows how he'll handle it?
Also agree with those who stated that they should be casting a wider net.
1) Offensive side of the ball aligns with NFL slant to promote offense / scoring
2) Likely on the same page with Schoen
3) Demonstrated success record with Josh Allen
Daboll negatives:
1) No prior NFL (or anywhere?) HC experience
2) Don't know if success in Buffalo mostly / solely due to Allen's skill set
Flores positives:
1) Prior NFL head coaching experience
2) Strong finish to end of 2021 season
Flores negatives:
1) Fired by Miami in spite of strong finish; why?
2) Rumors of poor communication skills, inflexibility
3) Defensive side coach not "in vogue" in NFL
4) From the less than stellar Belichick coaching tree
5) Might keep Patrick Graham as DC
6) Rumors John Mara's favorite candidate (George Costanza factor)
7) Might not be on same page as Schoen
My two cents.
You could make the argument that Daboll is part of the New England coaching tree. He spent a lot of years there (two stints).
I have been pro Flores but he has to have a plan for the O. I don't mind if he bangs head with the guys in the suits once in a while. I am more interested in someone that can get a team to believe and gets them to play big in the biggest games culminating in a championship. Usually those HC's are very hard, demanding and hold people accountable. In the end they build trust and a unified team that shows up when needed most.