The Giants don't have to draft a QB in the 1st round, but they have to draft a QB in the top 3 rounds. Just to simply have legitimate competition for Jones.
If they go into 2022 with Jones and a Glennon-like back-up, that's a bad sign.
You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.
If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.
It's absolutely possible that no QB is worthy of a pick at #5 or #7 or in the 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe there was a QB, but that QB got picked, so what does the team do if "they had to pick a QB?" ---they do the smart thing and they pick players.
Enough with this have to do shit. It ain't working.
Another CBS Draft where they have us grabbing Willis with 5
I did not have a problem keeping DJ on scholarship last year.
I know a lot of people did - I was not one of those people.
I DO think bringing in an early round QB WILL mess with a young QBs head.
This year - they've GOT to bring in some competition. If he's on scholarship yet AGAIN next year - it's more ineptitude on display by the NYG front office.
You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.
If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.
If there is nothing in this years basket you want...then you don't have a choice.
I understand your point, but Glennon finished the year 0-4 as a starter, completing just 54 percent of his passes for 790 yards, four touchdowns, and 10 interceptions. His quarterback rating was a dreadful 49.7.
He was a trainwreck. It's why they benched him for Fromm, who was even worse.
a QB in the 1st or OL .... What QB is going to make the OL block better in ANY capacity.
Compete NOW and Build for Tomorrow .... in no logical way getting a QB in rd 1 or 2 the best move barring a nice trade with one of the 1st picks ... barring some sucker that gets us in the the high 2nd twice WITHOUT using our 1st this year or next.
What would help more for the O and the team is a better O to get more out of Jones, Barkley and the WR Corp not a new QB ... that actually could be worse than Jones. Jones has proven to be middle of the road at best in a bad situation ... what QB in the draft is going to make a Bad OL, OC, etc look good. New OC, O and system you say ... well ok cool ... since hindsight is 20/20 what rookie QB says he would have been good to great in last year's situation?
Yup Jones maybe not be the qanswer but getting a qb with a premium pick is not the prudent course of action ...
was among the major failings of the Gettleman/Judge regimes. Given Jones' prior injuries / missed games, a major fail from a planning standpoint.
Colt McCoy in 2020 was clearly "at least / more than serviceable". Glennon and later Fromm were not.
Both Gettleman and Judge might have lost their jobs solely based on the consequences of the lack of quality back up issue (of course there were many other reasons). If the Giants go, say 6 - 11 or 7 - 10 and their is no clown show graphic, 11 min rant and 2 QB sneaks, Judge is likely still the HC.
Having the attitude of “we have to draft this position in the first X rounds” is what got us into this garbage mess of a roster in the first place.
No. The Giants don’t “have” to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds. They can sign a good veteran. They can draft a developmental prospect in rounds 5-7.
Whatever the case - take the best PLAYER at the pick.
Agreed - but same goes for posters insisting on us "having to" draft three OL in the first couple rounds.
Jones plays about 14 games, the offense struggles to get to 20 PPG, and he walks for nothing at the end of a 5-12 season.
What will have been gained by playing him?
Every snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather go with a draft pick or even a UDFA. At least then there is the chance that the guy might be able to play and accrue some value.
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
They do not have to draft a QB in the first 3 rounds
Top 100 picks are very valuable. You can not force a pick like that just to give Jones competition. Who gives a shit about a competition between two lousy quarterbacks. If they think a guy can be their franchise QB then they should take him, but absolutely do not force a QB pick.
You can only play one dud QB at a time, so not a wise use of cap on a cap strapped team. Either draft a guy, sign a guy and get rid of Jones, or roll with Jones for one year.
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
It's too bad Hendon Hooker (smartly) went back to Tennessee. That would have been a nice high upside mid rounder. He might be in the mix for 1st round 2023.
Many who have taken a hard stance against a QB in the draft will change their opinion. I dont care either way. in 45 years I have seen so many "future HOF players" suck. Im ok if they do and ok if they dont. We dont know if they are good or not. What we know more about is DJ. He has all but proven he isn't the guy. As long as Dj isn't the starter in 2023 its progress.
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
Whether via draft or free agency, with Jones' injury history, they have to allocate more to QB than they have since Eli retired. McCoy, Glennon not good enough as backups; they need to level up a bit. Trubisky/Mariota/Brissett are viable on the FA market, but if not one of them I'd like to see them walk out of the draft with a QB on Day 2.
And a Nassib-caliber 4th round pick may well have been a very good pick in the Jones era.
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
Mahomes was a QB in the tier below Trubisky coming out. Wilson was a 3rd rounder, Dak a 4th, etc. Drafting a QB is extremely difficult but the consensus sure-fire top QB picks are a fallacy. Most of the league's best QB's were a far cry from consensus top prospects.
It's too bad Hendon Hooker (smartly) went back to Tennessee. That would have been a nice high upside mid rounder. He might be in the mix for 1st round 2023.
He quietly had a very good year. Excellent size, good athleticism, and a pretty good arm.
I was a bit surprised he went back. I thought he had a chance to be dark horse QB and be a solid second round prospect.
think from Schoen and Mara's comments, they intend to try and build the team around Jones for at least one more year. I'd therefore be surprised if they used either of their first round picks on a QB. The irony is they probably have no choice but to keep Jones. His neck injury likely means he has no trade value, and as someone said, cutting him forces us to incur a more than $8.3M cap hit.
If a QB unexpectedly falls, I could see them packaging their second round pick and one of their third round picks to move back into the first round. I would otherwise expect them to clear enough cap space to sign a competent veteran backup to a one year deal, someone who can compete with Jones. They might also use a day three pick on a developmental QB, although that would not be my preference.
For that, they don't necessarily have to draft anyone, as there may be a few decent veterans that can be signed. I don't see the team looking to this weak QB class to draft DJ's replacement.
turned out to be a good thing. Did we really want Fromm or Glennon to play good enough to win and screw up draft position?
Not a good thing to plan for, though.
NO Fliers on a QB in top 2 rounds. Only take one if you are convinced he'll be a positive part of getting to the promised land. Being better than Jones is a low bar to set. Next year is the year to be desperate.
I say this over and over again when you're replacing Jones
Is the next QB a franchise QB? You're comparing Pickett, Corral, Willis to the top QBs in the league, not Jones. If the best any one of them can be is Kirk Cousins then there's no point selecting them
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
Mahomes was a QB in the tier below Trubisky coming out. Wilson was a 3rd rounder, Dak a 4th, etc. Drafting a QB is extremely difficult but the consensus sure-fire top QB picks are a fallacy. Most of the league's best QB's were a far cry from consensus top prospects.
and team evals tend to be different from the public evals/mocks
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
You can add Kyle Lauletta and Davis Webb right next to Nassibs on the list of "no mores"
in the 3rd/4th round, where is the harm there? Maybe he turns into Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott in a best case scenario. More likely, maybe you have a cheap backup for a few years. Worst case scenario is he is a Rhett Bomar.
This idea that every QB picked after the first round is a waste is silly. If you believe in your scouting and your coaching give them the opportunity to develop someone.
There should be minimal belief, if any, in the NYG scouting
He has a strong background in player evaluation and I will trust his eval on this QB class which I think is very average and not worthy of a top 10 pick.
Of course some needy QB team will overdraft a QB which we see every year.
they can sigh Rogers or Wilson or jesus christ himself to play qb
I did not have a problem keeping DJ on scholarship last year.
I know a lot of people did - I was not one of those people.
I DO think bringing in an early round QB WILL mess with a young QBs head.
This year - they've GOT to bring in some competition. If he's on scholarship yet AGAIN next year - it's more ineptitude on display by the NYG front office.
The “scholarship” idea is somewhat of a common mantra among some posters but I think it’s kinda lazy and unintelligent. It’s really resource allocation. 1. There are not enough qbs for 32 starters. Most backups are bad. Spending a lot of money on a backup qb is stupid for a rebuilding team. It makes some sense for a contender. A lot of ppl are focused on the giants and don’t pay attention to or realize what goes on around the rest of the league. I posted an article a while back ranking back up qbs pre season. Glennon was middle of the pack.
RE: they can sigh Rogers or Wilson or jesus christ himself to play qb
For better or worse, the perception is out there that the 2 guys projected to be available at the top of the 2023 draft (Stroud/Young) are better prospects than the crop for 2022. And, there is a pretty solid belief the 2022 NYG will be bad enough to "contend" for the right to draft one of them.
Unless we are tanking you cannot soundly predict if we will be able to get a shot at either of those guys.
It would be wasteful if the Giants are bad, but not bad enough to get those guys or no one wants to trade with us. Then what?
There exists the possibility the 2023 crop won't be as good pros as what people are projecting, and there also exists the possibility that the QB's in this class could be better than many people think too.
If Giants have strong conviction on any QB this year, then take them. But if there is another Herbert situation with a much better guy available when we pick next year then for fucks sake take him too and trade the other guy a la the Cardinals Rosen-Murray playbook.
RE: they can sigh Rogers or Wilson or jesus christ himself to play qb
You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.
If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.
Glennon sucks. Got to be better options.
Glennon is a backup...by definition they suck. But he did not blow chunks until he saw the field with the Giants.
Draft players, not positions.
It's absolutely possible that no QB is worthy of a pick at #5 or #7 or in the 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe there was a QB, but that QB got picked, so what does the team do if "they had to pick a QB?" ---they do the smart thing and they pick players.
Enough with this have to do shit. It ain't working.
Updated: 1/27/22
Link below- Middle mock
A little early for Willis unless his stock rises!
Link - ( New Window )
I know a lot of people did - I was not one of those people.
I DO think bringing in an early round QB WILL mess with a young QBs head.
This year - they've GOT to bring in some competition. If he's on scholarship yet AGAIN next year - it's more ineptitude on display by the NYG front office.
You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.
If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.
If there is nothing in this years basket you want...then you don't have a choice.
He was a trainwreck. It's why they benched him for Fromm, who was even worse.
Compete NOW and Build for Tomorrow .... in no logical way getting a QB in rd 1 or 2 the best move barring a nice trade with one of the 1st picks ... barring some sucker that gets us in the the high 2nd twice WITHOUT using our 1st this year or next.
What would help more for the O and the team is a better O to get more out of Jones, Barkley and the WR Corp not a new QB ... that actually could be worse than Jones. Jones has proven to be middle of the road at best in a bad situation ... what QB in the draft is going to make a Bad OL, OC, etc look good. New OC, O and system you say ... well ok cool ... since hindsight is 20/20 what rookie QB says he would have been good to great in last year's situation?
Yup Jones maybe not be the qanswer but getting a qb with a premium pick is not the prudent course of action ...
Colt McCoy in 2020 was clearly "at least / more than serviceable". Glennon and later Fromm were not.
Both Gettleman and Judge might have lost their jobs solely based on the consequences of the lack of quality back up issue (of course there were many other reasons). If the Giants go, say 6 - 11 or 7 - 10 and their is no clown show graphic, 11 min rant and 2 QB sneaks, Judge is likely still the HC.
No. The Giants don’t “have” to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds. They can sign a good veteran. They can draft a developmental prospect in rounds 5-7.
Whatever the case - take the best PLAYER at the pick.
Agreed - but same goes for posters insisting on us "having to" draft three OL in the first couple rounds.
Fixed
If they don't go QB in the 1st it's a sign that Jones will have no true competition outside of any FA additions.
History shows rookie QB's drafted outside of the 1st round are not drafted with intent by the team of that QB starting in their draft year.
This mindset that we can only draft for a sure-thing is daft.
I'm also not opposed to seeing how things play out in the offseason with, for example, the Raiders and Carr as a possible stop-gap.
Watching Jones play QB is painful. Another year or two of that is uninspiring.
What will have been gained by playing him?
Every snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste. I'd rather go with a draft pick or even a UDFA. At least then there is the chance that the guy might be able to play and accrue some value.
Again, every snap Jones gets in 2022 is a waste.
I doubt it happens, but I agree.
It's too bad Hendon Hooker (smartly) went back to Tennessee. That would have been a nice high upside mid rounder. He might be in the mix for 1st round 2023.
I agree.
Why force a Day 2 pick on a QB that you are unsure about?
Going 5-12 with Jones is better than going 5-12 with a late round QB.
Spend that pick on another position that could be valuable to the roster moving forward.
Quote:
Glennon wasn't widely regarded as a scrub until last season. He was a FA backup...like most FA backups on the market this season.
Glennon sucks. Got to be better options.
At this point does it really matter yet?
This is what I think will happen. Trubisky if Daboll is the HC, Brissett if it's Flores
Whether via draft or free agency, with Jones' injury history, they have to allocate more to QB than they have since Eli retired. McCoy, Glennon not good enough as backups; they need to level up a bit. Trubisky/Mariota/Brissett are viable on the FA market, but if not one of them I'd like to see them walk out of the draft with a QB on Day 2.
And a Nassib-caliber 4th round pick may well have been a very good pick in the Jones era.
Mahomes was a QB in the tier below Trubisky coming out. Wilson was a 3rd rounder, Dak a 4th, etc. Drafting a QB is extremely difficult but the consensus sure-fire top QB picks are a fallacy. Most of the league's best QB's were a far cry from consensus top prospects.
It's too bad Hendon Hooker (smartly) went back to Tennessee. That would have been a nice high upside mid rounder. He might be in the mix for 1st round 2023.
He quietly had a very good year. Excellent size, good athleticism, and a pretty good arm.
I was a bit surprised he went back. I thought he had a chance to be dark horse QB and be a solid second round prospect.
If a QB unexpectedly falls, I could see them packaging their second round pick and one of their third round picks to move back into the first round. I would otherwise expect them to clear enough cap space to sign a competent veteran backup to a one year deal, someone who can compete with Jones. They might also use a day three pick on a developmental QB, although that would not be my preference.
Not a good thing to plan for, though.
NO Fliers on a QB in top 2 rounds. Only take one if you are convinced he'll be a positive part of getting to the promised land. Being better than Jones is a low bar to set. Next year is the year to be desperate.
Quote:
Even the "top" QBs are in the Trubisky/Goff class. The QBs below them arent going to be difference-making pros. Why waste the pick on that. No more Ryan Nassibs, they are just wasted picks
Mahomes was a QB in the tier below Trubisky coming out. Wilson was a 3rd rounder, Dak a 4th, etc. Drafting a QB is extremely difficult but the consensus sure-fire top QB picks are a fallacy. Most of the league's best QB's were a far cry from consensus top prospects.
and team evals tend to be different from the public evals/mocks
This idea that every QB picked after the first round is a waste is silly. If you believe in your scouting and your coaching give them the opportunity to develop someone.
If the Giants decide to draft a QB that they think has upside, would hope that viewpoint is generated only by Schoen.
Of course some needy QB team will overdraft a QB which we see every year.
BC if you don't fix this offensive line then nobody succeeds.
why is this hard?
I know a lot of people did - I was not one of those people.
I DO think bringing in an early round QB WILL mess with a young QBs head.
This year - they've GOT to bring in some competition. If he's on scholarship yet AGAIN next year - it's more ineptitude on display by the NYG front office.
The “scholarship” idea is somewhat of a common mantra among some posters but I think it’s kinda lazy and unintelligent. It’s really resource allocation. 1. There are not enough qbs for 32 starters. Most backups are bad. Spending a lot of money on a backup qb is stupid for a rebuilding team. It makes some sense for a contender. A lot of ppl are focused on the giants and don’t pay attention to or realize what goes on around the rest of the league. I posted an article a while back ranking back up qbs pre season. Glennon was middle of the pack.
BC if you don't fix this offensive line then nobody succeeds.
why is this hard?
Don’t underestimate JC, he’s got some game...
He was an ok/ average backup qb prior to last year. That’s my opinion anyway
Quote:
.
For better or worse, the perception is out there that the 2 guys projected to be available at the top of the 2023 draft (Stroud/Young) are better prospects than the crop for 2022. And, there is a pretty solid belief the 2022 NYG will be bad enough to "contend" for the right to draft one of them.
Unless we are tanking you cannot soundly predict if we will be able to get a shot at either of those guys.
It would be wasteful if the Giants are bad, but not bad enough to get those guys or no one wants to trade with us. Then what?
There exists the possibility the 2023 crop won't be as good pros as what people are projecting, and there also exists the possibility that the QB's in this class could be better than many people think too.
If Giants have strong conviction on any QB this year, then take them. But if there is another Herbert situation with a much better guy available when we pick next year then for fucks sake take him too and trade the other guy a la the Cardinals Rosen-Murray playbook.
BC if you don't fix this offensive line then nobody succeeds.
why is this hard?
Ok, let's not start a holy war here.
But I don't like going into training camp with Jones and some scrub back-up.