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It's not just the 5th-year option on Jones, draft will tell

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/27/2022 2:02 pm
The Giants don't have to draft a QB in the 1st round, but they have to draft a QB in the top 3 rounds. Just to simply have legitimate competition for Jones.

If they go into 2022 with Jones and a Glennon-like back-up, that's a bad sign.
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Willis  
Straw Hat : 1/27/2022 2:04 pm : link
Or ridder if available after round 1 could be worth a flier. Other than that, yuck.
Go sign Jimmy G  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/27/2022 2:05 pm : link
for a year. He may take a prove it type deal with the assumption that he will compete with DJ for the starting job.
RE: Willis  
Doubledeuce22 : 1/27/2022 2:05 pm : link
In comment 15578508 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Or ridder if available after round 1 could be worth a flier. Other than that, yuck.


I like Ridder more than any of the QBs in this draft.
My hope is that they don't draft a QB  
Pete from Woodstock : 1/27/2022 2:06 pm : link
they trade down from the 7 pick to acquire a #1 next year to pair with our own No. 1. If Jones does not impress we pair the 2 picks together to move up and draft a QB in a better QB draft.
Bring in a legit backup QB this year to compete with DJ in the spring.
I would hate to see us using any pick in rounds 1-3 on a QB  
BillT : 1/27/2022 2:06 pm : link
We need egde, OL, TE and more and we need it desperately. A rookie 3rd round pick isn't any better competition for Jones that a vet backup.
Schmelk, Murray and our favorite Dottino discussed FA QB's  
FranknWeezer : 1/27/2022 2:07 pm : link
yesterday. If you're in the camp that there's not worthwhile QB talent high in this year's draft, they're convinced we can't afford a backup of the Mariota caliber (8.5-9 mil/year) with our cap woes. They were talking more on the lines of a 1 yr., 2 mil/yr deal with Mitchell Trubisky. That made me cringe. But at the same time, are we really going to be super competitive next year anyhow? Maybe what they were saying makes sense.
If Daboll is Brought In  
Capt. Don : 1/27/2022 2:08 pm : link
I wonder if Trubisky will be a consideration.

Whether you are Go Terps or still holding out hope for DJ - a legit plan beyond/behind Jones is a must.
Unless they were trying to deliberately tank  
Lambuth_Special : 1/27/2022 2:08 pm : link
It would be terrible strategy to go into the season with just Jones and a Glennon-tier QB even if you loved Jones. Jones' track record thus far is around 2-4 missed games per season, to not have a viable back-up would be inexcusable.
I disagree with this notion.  
Josh in the City : 1/27/2022 2:08 pm : link
No matter what, it's important for the team to sign a viable FA backup QB. Someone who can play if/when Jones inevitably has to miss a game or two. We can't be trotting out the likes of Mike Glennon next season.

But I definitely do not think a 3rd round flyer in a weak QB draft class is going to push Daniel Jones. If you don't love a QB this year in round one, then you let DJ play out the final year of his contract (see what he can do) and if he still sucks that you draft his replacement next year (and you still hopefully have that viable veteran backup QB that can either start the season or serve as a mentor to your rookie).

Drafting a 3rd round QB in this draft is like throwing away a draft pick.
Perhaps  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/27/2022 2:09 pm : link
you guys are right. Maybe we should simply bite the bullet. I haven't taken a deep dive on the QBs yet in this draft.

But I don't like going into training camp with Jones and some scrub back-up.
RE: I disagree with this notion.  
Angel Eyes : 1/27/2022 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15578522 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
No matter what, it's important for the team to sign a viable FA backup QB. Someone who can play if/when Jones inevitably has to miss a game or two. We can't be trotting out the likes of Mike Glennon next season.

But I definitely do not think a 3rd round flyer in a weak QB draft class is going to push Daniel Jones. If you don't love a QB this year in round one, then you let DJ play out the final year of his contract (see what he can do) and if he still sucks that you draft his replacement next year (and you still hopefully have that viable veteran backup QB that can either start the season or serve as a mentor to your rookie).

Drafting a 3rd round QB in this draft is like throwing away a draft pick.

Can we afford a quarterback better than Glennon?
People get too attached to individual draft picks  
Go Terps : 1/27/2022 2:10 pm : link
Drafting well is about good scouting and smart policies implemented over a period of years, not targeting/avoiding specific positions in particular rounds of particular drafts.

I believe Corral and Pickett both merit consideration with one of our first rounders; I think they're right there with the other players predicted to go in those areas. If not, there are viable options elsewhere.

There ARE options in THIS offseason to try to improve the position. We don't need to just extend the scholarship another year and "give" Jones 2022.
Now more than ever  
JonC : 1/27/2022 2:10 pm : link
NYG can't draft based on needs. The roster should be viewed as a greenfield, pick your HC, assistants, get your schemes assembled, and draft based on them.

NYG has needs literally everywhere. The 2024 Giants roster will look much different than the 2022 roster.
if history is any indication, jones will miss a chunk of games  
japanhead : 1/27/2022 2:11 pm : link
next season with injury, even if the neck is good to go by august.

if they're rolling with jones at QB in '22 it would be stupid to treat the backup QB position like they have eli starting under center.

whether its in the draft or find some FA who's an upgrade over glennon/fromm.. but if jones is the starter it's basically a lock the backup QB will be starting a chunk of games next season.
I would add  
greatgrandpa : 1/27/2022 2:11 pm : link
Given how many games Jones has missed and a possible chronic neck issue from running the fb/sacks(‘football is not a contact sports it’s a collision sport” - and no contact till August?) the Giants desperately need quality competition here at QB
RE: Perhaps  
jvm52106 : 1/27/2022 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15578523 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
you guys are right. Maybe we should simply bite the bullet. I haven't taken a deep dive on the QBs yet in this draft.

But I don't like going into training camp with Jones and some scrub back-up.


WHY does it matter if they are trying to build the squad around the position first? I think 2023 is the year they are looking to upgrade.

BUT- that being said (Judge's favorite saying) i think Carson Strong may be a target in rd 3 if he slides there.
I think you punt on QB this year  
Ben in Tampa : 1/27/2022 2:12 pm : link
Bring in a backup who CAN push Jones but can also start when he inevitably gets hurt again.

QB should be priority 1 in 2023 and beyond, I just think they need to use their assets this year to rebuild the foundation of the team

This roster sucks so bad no one will be successful under center until they fix it
If Schoen drafts a QB in rds 1 or 2  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/27/2022 2:13 pm : link
I think the writing is on the wall.
Or they can sign a backup qb in FA and say in training camp  
The_Boss : 1/27/2022 2:13 pm : link
Best backup starts!
RE: If Daboll is Brought In  
The_Boss : 1/27/2022 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15578519 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
I wonder if Trubisky will be a consideration.

Whether you are Go Terps or still holding out hope for DJ - a legit plan beyond/behind Jones is a must.


Mitch would beat out Jones in camp and Mara would look ridiculous..bring back Colt..make it a fake competition..and start Jones...dog and pony show
E tu Eric?  
Thunderstruck27 : 1/27/2022 2:15 pm : link
Glennon wasn't widely regarded as a scrub until last season. He was a FA backup...like most FA backups on the market this season.
I respectfully disagree  
Jay on the Island : 1/27/2022 2:16 pm : link
I agree that Jones is not the long term answer but drafting a QB based solely on wanting to bring in competition for Jones is foolish unless Carson Strong is available on day 2. I would rather see them sign Trubisky, Mariota, or Andy Dalton in free agency to compete with Jones rather than drafting a QB this year.

The one QB I find intriguing though is Carson Strong. I do not understand why he isn't considered a 1st round pick. I know that he's a traditional pocket passer but he isn't a complete statue. He has a great arm and he is accurate. If they are going to take a QB on day 2 I would prefer him unless Willis fell to round 2.
If you can accumulate an additional #1 for 2023 draft.  
AnnapolisMike : 1/27/2022 2:17 pm : link
I think that is the play. If Jones is not it...you will be drafting a QB and have the ammunition to do it.
The last thing that we want to do...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/27/2022 2:20 pm : link
...is force a QB right?

Based on what I think I know about the cap situation, Trubisky is one of the few options that I find interesting.
My preference on QB/draft is leaning towards  
chick310 : 1/27/2022 2:22 pm : link
1 - not exercising option on Jones but keeping him on team
2 - adding an experienced QB during free agency that can compete for starting job
3 - use Rd 1 picks, or moving around with them some, to put as many Top 50 players they can on roster
4 - if a scouted QB they like drops in Rd 1, trade back up into back end of Rd 1 and grab him

Sounds like people just want to force it in 2023  
Go Terps : 1/27/2022 2:22 pm : link
.
RE: Sounds like people just want to force it in 2023  
The_Boss : 1/27/2022 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15578566 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


For better or worse, the perception is out there that the 2 guys projected to be available at the top of the 2023 draft (Stroud/Young) are better prospects than the crop for 2022. And, there is a pretty solid belief the 2022 NYG will be bad enough to "contend" for the right to draft one of them.
Day 2 QB makes sense to me.  
Pepe LePugh : 1/27/2022 2:28 pm : link
Top day 2 QBs drafted in past few years are Davis Mills, Jalen Hurts, and Drew Lock. Would you rather have an affordable FA like Glennon for back up or someone like these guys? More likely to hit on minimum wage TE or OG than QB.
RE: but they have to draft a QB in the top 3 rounds  
Trainmaster : 1/27/2022 2:29 pm : link
I would think one of the two 3rd rounder, barring any trade ups or downs.

Willis likely ranked way too long by PFF. Carson Strong with a 2nd rounder is a possibility.

Quote:
1. MATT CORRAL, OLE MISS
BIG BOARD RANK: 16
The first quarterback off the board. Corral lost his top playmakers from a season ago yet still rolled through SEC competition. He flashed his athleticism even more this season, racking up 713 rushing yards and 11 rushing touchdowns.

2. KENNY PICKETT, PITTSBURGH
BIG BOARD RANK: 20
The single biggest riser at the quarterback position, Pickett didn't earn a single sub-70.0 game grade all year. After managing only 10 big-time throws in 2020, Pickett totaled 29 this season. In his fourth year as a starter, Pickett looked decidedly different.

3. SAM HOWELL, UNC
BIG BOARD RANK: 31
Howell may have taken a step back as a passer, but he proved to be a legitimate threat as a runner this season. He broke an absurd 63 tackles and ran for 1,072 yards this season.

4. DESMOND RIDDER, CINCINNATI
BIG BOARD RANK: 36
Ridder oozes physical talent, but his accuracy issues continue to be worrisome. That being said, he’s been on a tear down the stretch this season and will have a prime chance to prove himself if Cincinnati makes the College Football Playoff.

5. MALIK WILLIS, LIBERTY
BIG BOARD RANK: 39
Willis is an electric playmaker. However, the Liberty quarterback is still far too much of a roller coaster from game to game. He amassed 19 turnover-worthy plays but also a ridiculous 36 big-time throws.

6. CARSON STRONG, NEVADA
BIG BOARD RANK: 41
No quarterback in this top 100 shouldered a bigger load as a passer. Strong had a six-game stretch toward the end of the season where he dropped back to pass over 50 times every game. Still, he finished with a career-high 90.3 passing grade this season.

7. TANNER MCKEE, STANFORD
BIG BOARD RANK: 83
McKee was a former top recruit who took a two-year LDS mission before coming back to Stanford in 2020. In his first year as a starter, he flashed NFL-caliber arm talent and accuracy. He’ll likely be back at Stanford in 2022.

PFF: 2022 NFL Draft Position Rankings: Quarterbacks - ( New Window )
First you have to identify someone in the first three rounds.....  
MOOPS : 1/27/2022 2:31 pm : link
who you believe can be your future franchise QB. Otherwise you're just wasting draft capital that can be better spent in other places.

Agree a Glennon or even a Trubinsky type is not a long term answer, though a reliable backup is a neccessity.

The 5th year option, though not likely to be exercised, will depend on a few variables, including perceived cap space in 2023 and tons of video analysis of Jones between now and May.
I was just looking at something similar for 2017  
Jerry in_DC : 1/27/2022 2:34 pm : link

Quote:

13, Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina

A one-year starter, Trubisky showed good short-area accuracy, pocket presence, and the ability to make big-time throws outside the numbers. He can still improve his blitz recognition and deep ball, but his impressive one-year sample has pushed him to the top of our quarterback board. — Steve Palazzolo, @PFF_Steve

17. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson

One of the most difficult evaluations in the class, Watson can make the necessary throws to be successful at the next level. His ability to work through progressions and maneuver the pocket, however, present big questions he has to answer. Watson usually saves his best work for crunch time, either down the stretch or late in games, and that’s the part that pushes him back up draft boards despite concerns about his game translating at the next level. — Steve Palazzolo, @PFF_Steve

29. Patrick Mahomes II, QB, Texas Tech

Mahomes has an incredible feel for making plays outside of the flow of the offense, and when combined with his special arm talent, that allows him to make any throw from any platform—a best-case scenario for Mahomes is tantalizing. The problem is the same feel for making plays also leads to a number of poor decisions with the football, and a prospective team has to find the balance of keeping Mahomes’ aggressiveness and natural playmaking ability while harnessing him to make good decisions within the flow of the offense. — Steve Palazzolo, @PFF_Steve



Link - ( New Window )
Stroud and Young aren't clearly better than this group  
Go Terps : 1/27/2022 2:35 pm : link
Even if we're picking first overall...are we going to pick one of those guys over Will Anderson? That sounds an awful lot like forcing a QB pick to me.

What the Giants need to be doing now is gaming out the next year under different scenarios.

The first question is, "What is most likely to happen if we give Jones the job another year?"

What's the honest answer to that question?
multiple things can be true  
GiantsFan84 : 1/27/2022 2:41 pm : link
jones stinks and they should be looking for his replacement

the value at their picks may not warrant picking a QB

for those saying malik willis in round 2. what if zion johnson is there (a very good OG prospect). should they roll the dice on willis instead of him? this team doesn't have 1 good OG on the roster

round 3 and 4 will be sweet spot for tight ends in this draft. they don't have 1 tight end on the roster right now not named kaden smith or the corpse that is kyle rudolph (who should be cut for cap space to boot). they shouldn't force a QB pick there just to give jones competition

to me the better avenue would be a lower priced free agent. maybe a mitch trubisky type guy.

but honestly this team is going to stink this year so it's more about finding long-term pieces than getting competition for jones.
RE: E tu Eric?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/27/2022 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15578550 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
Glennon wasn't widely regarded as a scrub until last season. He was a FA backup...like most FA backups on the market this season.


Glennon sucks. Got to be better options.
RE: Stroud and Young aren't clearly better than this group  
The_Boss : 1/27/2022 2:45 pm : link
In comment 15578597 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Even if we're picking first overall...are we going to pick one of those guys over Will Anderson? That sounds an awful lot like forcing a QB pick to me.

What the Giants need to be doing now is gaming out the next year under different scenarios.

The first question is, "What is most likely to happen if we give Jones the job another year?"

What's the honest answer to that question?


The opinion of those who are in the profession think those 2 are better than this group. If he's around, my guess would be Sy'56 would agree as well. Me personally, I don't like either Young or Stroud while Anderson is the pass rushing god this franchise needs in the worst way. He's the prize in 2023.
….  
ryanmkeane : 1/27/2022 2:46 pm : link
Having the attitude of “we have to draft this position in the first X rounds” is what got us into this garbage mess of a roster in the first place.

No. The Giants don’t “have” to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds. They can sign a good veteran. They can draft a developmental prospect in rounds 5-7.

Whatever the case - take the best PLAYER at the pick.
If you Cut DJ you have $8.135 Mil cap hit  
Rudy5757 : 1/27/2022 2:46 pm : link
and then you still have to sign a QB to replace him. So even if you get a QB on the cheap at $5mil you are sitting at $13 mil allotted to the QB starting QB. Keeping Jones makes more sense this season and signing a guy to compete with him in the $5 mil range. May the best man win.

Even if you draft a QB you have to keep Jones since you are paying him anyway. The cost to replace him is not worth it. His cap number is $8.3 Mil and Dead cap is $8.1 Mil. It costs more to replace him than to keep him. He could turn into a quality starter or at the very least a decent backup. Clearly better than a Glennon.
Glennon was brought in for the same reason as McCoy  
Go Terps : 1/27/2022 2:46 pm : link
They weren't going to rock the boat.

If they'd signed Mariota, Trubisky, Dalton, or traded for Minshew - they would have been called for at 0-2. Can't threaten the scholarship.
I can't believe how many people say "don't force it this year'  
Mike from Ohio : 1/27/2022 2:47 pm : link
but then essentially say 'force it in 2023.'

You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.

If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.
RE: RE: E tu Eric?  
AnnapolisMike : 1/27/2022 2:48 pm : link
In comment 15578612 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:


Glennon sucks. Got to be better options.


Glennon is a backup...by definition they suck. But he did not blow chunks until he saw the field with the Giants.
"they have to draft X within the first 3 rounds"  
djm : 1/27/2022 2:48 pm : link
NOPE! No they don't.

Draft players, not positions.

It's absolutely possible that no QB is worthy of a pick at #5 or #7 or in the 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe there was a QB, but that QB got picked, so what does the team do if "they had to pick a QB?" ---they do the smart thing and they pick players.


Enough with this have to do shit. It ain't working.
Another CBS Draft where they have us grabbing Willis with 5  
GiantBlue : 1/27/2022 2:49 pm : link
Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso
Updated: 1/27/22

Link below- Middle mock


A little early for Willis unless his stock rises!
Link - ( New Window )
Too be fair to the NYG organization  
Dnew15 : 1/27/2022 2:50 pm : link
I did not have a problem keeping DJ on scholarship last year.

I know a lot of people did - I was not one of those people.

I DO think bringing in an early round QB WILL mess with a young QBs head.

This year - they've GOT to bring in some competition. If he's on scholarship yet AGAIN next year - it's more ineptitude on display by the NYG front office.
RE: I can't believe how many people say  
AnnapolisMike : 1/27/2022 2:50 pm : link
In comment 15578622 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
but then essentially say 'force it in 2023.'

You make decisions based on who is there now. You don't stockpile assets for 2023 and just plan that your franchise QB will be sitting there and you will be in a position to take him.

If you don't think a guy is worth a top 10 pick this year that's fine, don't force it. But spend a 2nd or 3rd on a guy you can think you can mold is a better bet than putting all your chips in the 2023 basket and crossing your fingers.


If there is nothing in this years basket you want...then you don't have a choice.
AnnapolisMike  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/27/2022 2:50 pm : link
I understand your point, but Glennon finished the year 0-4 as a starter, completing just 54 percent of his passes for 790 yards, four touchdowns, and 10 interceptions. His quarterback rating was a dreadful 49.7.

He was a trainwreck. It's why they benched him for Fromm, who was even worse.
What would help the team more  
MotownGIANTS : 1/27/2022 2:56 pm : link
a QB in the 1st or OL .... What QB is going to make the OL block better in ANY capacity.

Compete NOW and Build for Tomorrow .... in no logical way getting a QB in rd 1 or 2 the best move barring a nice trade with one of the 1st picks ... barring some sucker that gets us in the the high 2nd twice WITHOUT using our 1st this year or next.

What would help more for the O and the team is a better O to get more out of Jones, Barkley and the WR Corp not a new QB ... that actually could be worse than Jones. Jones has proven to be middle of the road at best in a bad situation ... what QB in the draft is going to make a Bad OL, OC, etc look good. New OC, O and system you say ... well ok cool ... since hindsight is 20/20 what rookie QB says he would have been good to great in last year's situation?

Yup Jones maybe not be the qanswer but getting a qb with a premium pick is not the prudent course of action ...
The Lack Of A Quality Backup For 2021  
Trainmaster : 1/27/2022 2:56 pm : link
was among the major failings of the Gettleman/Judge regimes. Given Jones' prior injuries / missed games, a major fail from a planning standpoint.

Colt McCoy in 2020 was clearly "at least / more than serviceable". Glennon and later Fromm were not.

Both Gettleman and Judge might have lost their jobs solely based on the consequences of the lack of quality back up issue (of course there were many other reasons). If the Giants go, say 6 - 11 or 7 - 10 and their is no clown show graphic, 11 min rant and 2 QB sneaks, Judge is likely still the HC.





RE: ….  
Sammo85 : 1/27/2022 2:57 pm : link
In comment 15578617 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Having the attitude of “we have to draft this position in the first X rounds” is what got us into this garbage mess of a roster in the first place.

No. The Giants don’t “have” to draft a quarterback in the first three rounds. They can sign a good veteran. They can draft a developmental prospect in rounds 5-7.

Whatever the case - take the best PLAYER at the pick.


Agreed - but same goes for posters insisting on us "having to" draft three OL in the first couple rounds.
They’re not picking up the fifth year option.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/27/2022 2:58 pm : link
There is literally zero rational reason for doing so, regardless of how they feel about Daniel Jones.
There is no clown show  
Trainmaster : 1/27/2022 2:58 pm : link
graphic ...

Fixed
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