Flores had a good day/Daboll still considered favorite

Lol, Ryan Dunleavy on the scene

I dont have a strong preference but would err on the side of experience.

may cost him

Thats tough after the way the Giants brass backed up Jones yesterday

I’m not buying that Dorsey would come here over Buffalo.

In comment 15579253 Ben in Tampa said:

Quote:

may cost him Thats tough after the way the Giants brass backed up Jones yesterday

Agreed. I don't see how it's not Daboll unless he's offered the job and turns it down.

.

Daboll is the only one I’m aware of.

In comment 15579258 Andy in Boston said:

Quote:

I’m not buying that Dorsey would come here over Buffalo.

Youre right, Dorsey isnt going to come here to be the OC, when he would immediately become the OC in Buffalo after Daboll's departure.

The OC hire should Daboll get the HC gig is far less consequential than if a defensive coach like Flores got the nod instead.

In the end, itll be Daboll's offense - hed likely call the plays. The OC would help him gameplan, install the offense, etc. but just like Shurmur/Shula - the HC is doing double duty.

I know its unpopular, but Im completely okay with a HC who is the playcaller and psuedo OC. Gotta nail the DC hire though, who unlike Shurmur didnt. I still maintain Betcher was part of Pat's undoing around here.

do there teams that are shopping for GMs and HCs leak this kind of stuff? Is it coming from the agents?

How would agents know that everyone the Giants interviewed as a finalist for GM said they had a favorable view of Daniel Jones?

It just doesn't make good business sense to me. Why not keep everything secret?

How soon are we going to start to hear who the Giants want with #5 and #7 so the Eagles or the Cowboys or some other teams can make their annual screw the Giants trade. Hopefully this time the new GM has a plan B that isn't Eli Apple.

...is it leaks or speculation?

In comment 15579265 arniefez said:

Quote:

do there teams that are shopping for GMs and HCs leak this kind of stuff? Is it coming from the agents? How would agents know that everyone the Giants interviewed as a finalist for GM said they had a favorable view of Daniel Jones? It just doesn't make good business sense to me. Why not keep everything secret? How soon are we going to start to hear who the Giants want with #5 and #7 so the Eagles or the Cowboys or some other teams can make their annual screw the Giants trade. Hopefully this time the new GM has a plan B that isn't Eli Apple.

Speculation

They all have spouses, friends, kids, agents--a lot of places leaks can come from.

That multiplicity also gives frauds like the Carpenter or Incarcerated Bob a space into which to operate.

And Giants fans are so anxious that we eagerly grasp at every supposed bit of info, making the rumor economy self-sustaining,

I read about Daboll the more I want Flores.. Daboll is pretty much been unsuccessful the majority of his OC career.. now talent matters but it’s still concerning

In comment 15579282 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

They all have spouses, friends, kids, agents--a lot of places leaks can come from. That multiplicity also gives frauds like the Carpenter or Incarcerated Bob a space into which to operate. And Giants fans are so anxious that we eagerly grasp at every supposed bit of info, making the rumor economy self-sustaining,

Agreed

Camp who has been feeding O’Conner information the whole coaching process.

"Outta town" was he understood Tua's limitations given his surrounding support.

He dialed down the offense, and got out what he could. The Dolphin brass didn't buy it, Flores stood up to them, and he was history.

Jones is in the same boat, here. When we get a decent O-line, we can open the offense more. That is what he has over anybody else, coming in - he UNDERSTANDS where we are.

We’ll see who wins out.

In comment 15579293 Brandon Walsh said:

Quote:

Camp who has been feeding O’Conner information the whole coaching process.

Interesting take and quite possible.

When I hear the name DABOLL. I’m sorry, but it’s still a crap shoot whether his success as an OC can transfer to a HC. Much of the time it doesn’t. Sometimes it does.

Flores at least has some modest success as a HC…he knows how to beat Bill Belicheck, doesn’t he? He’s had a winning record his last two years in Miami. At least I feel better knowing that he knows how to win as a HC and thus must have skill sets required to be a successful NFL HC. Admittedly, my heart doesn’t beat fast upon hearing his name either, but I would say, it beats faster.

Daboll is just a big ?

Honestly, we’ve hired enough unproven HCs lately….I say go with a proven winner, albeit, a modest one.

but Flores might be interesting.

And Mara prefers Flores, because Daboll is a first time head coach, and Mara is suffering from recency bias with first time head coaches.

But I think with Daboll being an early favorite all along, I think if you hire Schoen after everything that's taken place during the process, you MUST let him pick his guy. Not sure if the extra thoroughness is happening to placate Mara, or to satisfy the rule requirement, but barring something really strange Daboll is going to at least get an offer to coach this team. And I think he takes it, despite significant challenges, because of the opportunity to team up with Schoen in the biggest market in the United States.

Too much nonsense leaking out of Miami.I Don't want another hardheaded Bill Belichick disciple.
I am surprised so many want another NE guy.

In comment 15579346 allstarjim said:

Quote:

And Mara prefers Flores, because Daboll is a first time head coach, and Mara is suffering from recency bias with first time head coaches. But I think with Daboll being an early favorite all along, I think if you hire Schoen after everything that's taken place during the process, you MUST let him pick his guy. Not sure if the extra thoroughness is happening to placate Mara, or to satisfy the rule requirement, but barring something really strange Daboll is going to at least get an offer to coach this team. And I think he takes it, despite significant challenges, because of the opportunity to team up with Schoen in the biggest market in the United States.

I agree. Think it’s fait accompli. And has been for a while. Flores shaking loose was a bit of unexpected event.
I think Mara wanted to appear thorough. These theatrics are so in the end Mara defers to the GM (and sates the mob somewhat) and also paints him in a good light for “going to the mat” for a minority coach.

I kinda dig Mara still has some fight in him after the shellacking he's taking lately. I'm thinking he defers to Schoen in the end, though.

1) he justified axing Judge cuz he said new GM needs his own dude
2) Flores doesn't have his OC lined up, not one that addresses
concerns adequately, anyway.

I think Daboll has to be the hire, but I think Flores may be the better coach, unfortunately that's not the only consideration here is his problem

Because he's failed three times and he realizes that four just is not acceptable.

As far as Flores giving up and just playing nice, I don't see that in his character. Nor do I do see him running his mouth because he just lost a big job (and is probably hurting). Reading that he's waving a white flag is a stretch.

As far as Schoen and what he'll do - He will do what is right for the team and his career. If Daboll is the right man, so be it; I don't think our new Gm will bring him in just because they're buddies.

In comment 15579373 Red Right Hand said:

Quote:

I kinda dig Mara still has some fight in him after the shellacking he's taking lately. I'm thinking he defers to Schoen in the end, though.

Mara has a stubborn Irish streak, for sure. It's sort of admirable in the abstract, but not in this specific application.

But Mara is not wrong here. Mike Tannenbaum has voiced strong opinions for need for NYG to pair the new GM with experienced head coach and he draws this opinion from experience. So if Mara is saying something like are you absolutely sure here, as he likely is, he has good reason to do so. That’s not meddling. That’s making sure the final decision is grounded and secure.

To lock one man in a dark room and have him make a decision in a vacuum.

In comment 15579283 g56blue10 said:

Quote:

I read about Daboll the more I want Flores.. Daboll is pretty much been unsuccessful the majority of his OC career.. now talent matters but it’s still concerning

But OC is a hige question mark with Flores. Even if he finds a good one he doesn't seem to hold on to them for long.

Offensive stability would be a much bigger concern for me with Flores.

In comment 15579264 bLiTz 2k said:

Quote:

In comment 15579258 Andy in Boston said: Quote: I’m not buying that Dorsey would come here over Buffalo. Youre right, Dorsey isnt going to come here to be the OC, when he would immediately become the OC in Buffalo after Daboll's departure. The OC hire should Daboll get the HC gig is far less consequential than if a defensive coach like Flores got the nod instead. In the end, itll be Daboll's offense - hed likely call the plays. The OC would help him gameplan, install the offense, etc. but just like Shurmur/Shula - the HC is doing double duty. I know its unpopular, but Im completely okay with a HC who is the playcaller and psuedo OC. Gotta nail the DC hire though, who unlike Shurmur didnt. I still maintain Betcher was part of Pat's undoing around here.

How do you know this? Plus, Buffalo has two QB coaches Daboll could take either one.

Too many make these absolute statements with zero direct knowledge..

That is more important than experience as a HC. Plus, Flores only had three years experience and though he had a winning record he did have a losing record all three years in the first half of each season and had serious coaching staff changes- ala the way judge did.

Schoen made a huge point that the Coordinators we're huge parts of getting the right staff together. I think we will see a hire happen later today.

But fixing the offense should be numbers 1, 2 and 3 on our list of how to get the Giants
back to winning.

It's more difficult for Flores to do that than Daboll. Give the offensive mind the crack at this, not some middling OC that Flores scrounges up. Flores might be a better HC on paper but Daboll is a better fit for the here and now.

and then the Broncos hired Hackett.

In comment 15579358 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

Too much nonsense leaking out of Miami.I Don't want another hardheaded Bill Belichick disciple. I am surprised so many want another NE guy.

Lol. Daboll is a NE guy.

In comment 15579358 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

Too much nonsense leaking out of Miami.I Don't want another hardheaded Bill Belichick disciple. I am surprised so many want another NE guy.

Um, they both are “NE guys.” Daboll spent the first 6 years of his NFL career in NE

Just tired of all the BS being put out.

I thought Judge was going to be a good coach after reading all the hype after the hiring. So, I'm OK with not being excited about the options.

and Mara...

In comment 15579297 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

"Outta town" was he understood Tua's limitations given his surrounding support. He dialed down the offense, and got out what he could. The Dolphin brass didn't buy it, Flores stood up to them, and he was history. Jones is in the same boat, here. When we get a decent O-line, we can open the offense more. That is what he has over anybody else, coming in - he UNDERSTANDS where we are.

If Flores has the guts to recognize that a highly drafted QB (Tua) doesn't have it, then I would assume he could do the same with Jones.

If Mara is in favor of Flores as has been reported, perhaps that is an encouraging sign that Mara would allow the GM and HC true autonomy to make the call on DJ, and others.

In comment 15579399 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

Quote:

In comment 15579283 g56blue10 said: Quote: I read about Daboll the more I want Flores.. Daboll is pretty much been unsuccessful the majority of his OC career.. now talent matters but it’s still concerning But OC is a hige question mark with Flores. Even if he finds a good one he doesn't seem to hold on to them for long. Offensive stability would be a much bigger concern for me with Flores.

Flores wants Darrell Bevell as an OC, horrendous choice.

works for Jets front office and also worked for the Bills in the past. He was pretty down on Daboll? Thinks Flores will be the guy.

In comment 15579490 Costy16 said:

Quote:

In comment 15579399 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: In comment 15579283 g56blue10 said: Quote: I read about Daboll the more I want Flores.. Daboll is pretty much been unsuccessful the majority of his OC career.. now talent matters but it’s still concerning But OC is a hige question mark with Flores. Even if he finds a good one he doesn't seem to hold on to them for long. Offensive stability would be a much bigger concern for me with Flores. Flores wants Darrell Bevell as an OC, horrendous choice.

That's non-starter. It has to be Daboll or this offense could look worse than when Jason Garrett ran it.

several other OC names (beyond Daboll).

Anybody hear some new candidate names yesterday or is he talking about the OC job under the head coach?

In comment 15579501 chick310 said:

Quote:

several other OC names (beyond Daboll). Anybody hear some new candidate names yesterday or is he talking about the OC job under the head coach?

The latter.

I also think we need a HC with experience this time around.

Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
7m
Brian Flores acquitted himself well in his interview on Thursday with the Giants. Sources believe it's a tight two-man race at the moment between him and Bills OC Brian Daboll.

Leslie Frazier the last of the finalists interviews Friday. A decision expected by the weekend.

répercussions PAST naming the head coach. If Schoen wants Daboll and Mara wants Flores, then the decision tells us all we need to know about who’s running the show. There is so much to be done, if Mara is still running the show we can kiss the next five years or so goodbye. Schoen has to be strong enough to get his way on this one or nothing will get done and this has all been window dressing.

In comment 15579546 Dave on the UWS said:

Quote:

répercussions PAST naming the head coach. If Schoen wants Daboll and Mara wants Flores, then the decision tells us all we need to know about who’s running the show. There is so much to be done, if Mara is still running the show we can kiss the next five years or so goodbye. Schoen has to be strong enough to get his way on this one or nothing will get done and this has all been window dressing.

Can we stop with the mara running the show BS. EVERY owner runs the show some how some way. I think Schoen was the Giants choice a long time ago and the HC piece is going to be HEAVILY decided by who Schoen wants to work with.

Until I read Sy's post yesterday about establishing a winning culture and how Flores seems like more of a guy to do that and I agree. I don't know either man but it can be tough to be a nice guy and a head coach and Daboll seems more like a nice guy than a tough one.

candidate personally nor was I involved in the interviews so what that hell do I know. Sy's statement certainly weighs heavily with me. But, I'm torn.

In comment 15579553 jvm52106 said:

Quote:

In comment 15579546 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: répercussions PAST naming the head coach. If Schoen wants Daboll and Mara wants Flores, then the decision tells us all we need to know about who’s running the show. There is so much to be done, if Mara is still running the show we can kiss the next five years or so goodbye. Schoen has to be strong enough to get his way on this one or nothing will get done and this has all been window dressing. Can we stop with the mara running the show BS. EVERY owner runs the show some how some way. I think Schoen was the Giants choice a long time ago and the HC piece is going to be HEAVILY decided by who Schoen wants to work with.

Its like Miami and Buffalo being in the same division means nothing to anyone. Schoen has watched closely what the other teams in the AFC East have done in the last 4 years. Maybe he thinks Flores has done a good job in Miami and wanted to interview him. I also, agree that Schoen was tagged a month ago and Mara's call to Flores was done at Schoen's request

All of the rumors we're hearing line up with what was expected; Flores is the Mara candidate and Daboll is Schoen's guy. Sounds like there is zero new or substantive info here.

In the past we could count on leaks but this feels like grasping for straws with a new regime. I'm not sure any of these guys have any information or idea who is preferred between these two candidates.

In comment 15579567 JFIB said:

Quote:

Until I read Sy's post yesterday about establishing a winning culture and how Flores seems like more of a guy to do that and I agree. I don't know either man but it can be tough to be a nice guy and a head coach and Daboll seems more like a nice guy than a tough one.

Both guys have flaws. Flores got canned because he got into arguments with his GM, QB, and probably his OC considering he hasn't stuck with any for a while.

2019 OC Chad O'Shea, DC Pat Graham
2020 OC Chan Gailey, DC Josh Boyer
2021 OC George Godsey and Eric Studesville, DC Josh Boyer

Here's the kicker. Neither Godsey or Studesville called the plays. It was QB coach Charlie Frye.

That's my primary worry with him, and his conservative nature is reminiscent of Judge. That doesn't fly really good with me. I would prefer someone who's more aggressive and has a better idea on how to win in this league and that's scoring points. Dolphins won, what was it, seven in a row? And none of those wins impressed me. They beat scrubs. I think Flores is a good coach but he has warts and it concerns me.

I can not understand why Mara would be interested in a guy that Miami, despite having a winning team, felt they had no other option than to let the guy go.

Think about that.

Now we all know that the brain trust at Giants central has apparently done their due diligence on Flores, and the reports back were that he is a great guy, coach, motivator, etc.

I submit to you this BBI and please ponder if this could be possible -

The opinion of the Giants FO in the league is that the Giants ownership is gullible. The Giants somehow think that the collective NFL ownership is a "good ole boys club". The Giants ownership "gets opinions" from people like Bill Belichek, who in turn to further their own teams interests and essentially "dump" head coaching candidates on the Giants, walk away and laugh.

I can't help but consider that this is what's going on w/Flores

should have worn a Boston College hat to the interview...

In comment 15579643 I Love Clams Casino said:

Quote:

I can not understand why Mara would be interested in a guy that Miami, despite having a winning team, felt they had no other option than to let the guy go. Think about that. Now we all know that the brain trust at Giants central has apparently done their due diligence on Flores, and the reports back were that he is a great guy, coach, motivator, etc. I submit to you this BBI and please ponder if this could be possible - The opinion of the Giants FO in the league is that the Giants ownership is gullible. The Giants somehow think that the collective NFL ownership is a "good ole boys club". The Giants ownership "gets opinions" from people like Bill Belichek, who in turn to further their own teams interests and essentially "dump" head coaching candidates on the Giants, walk away and laugh. I can't help but consider that this is what's going on w/Flores

In 1991 the Giants GM didnt like Belichick so he made Handley the new HC. How'd that turn out? Its obvious the GM in Miami didnt like Flores. Maybe the GM in Miami is wrong?

In comment 15579657 Snablats said:

Quote:

In comment 15579643 I Love Clams Casino said: Quote: I can not understand why Mara would be interested in a guy that Miami, despite having a winning team, felt they had no other option than to let the guy go. Think about that. Now we all know that the brain trust at Giants central has apparently done their due diligence on Flores, and the reports back were that he is a great guy, coach, motivator, etc. I submit to you this BBI and please ponder if this could be possible - The opinion of the Giants FO in the league is that the Giants ownership is gullible. The Giants somehow think that the collective NFL ownership is a "good ole boys club". The Giants ownership "gets opinions" from people like Bill Belichek, who in turn to further their own teams interests and essentially "dump" head coaching candidates on the Giants, walk away and laugh. I can't help but consider that this is what's going on w/Flores In 1991 the Giants GM didnt like Belichick so he made Handley the new HC. How'd that turn out? Its obvious the GM in Miami didnt like Flores. Maybe the GM in Miami is wrong?

seems like a "cutting off your nose to spite your face"...I have to think that any living soul possessing the smarts and attitude to rise to the level of a GM in the NFL would have the emotional fortitude to avoid a self inflicted injury like that

In comment 15579490 Costy16 said:

Quote:

Flores wants Darrell Bevell as an OC, horrendous choice.

Where did you see that??

In comment 15579641 Toth029 said:

Quote:

In comment 15579567 JFIB said: Quote: Until I read Sy's post yesterday about establishing a winning culture and how Flores seems like more of a guy to do that and I agree. I don't know either man but it can be tough to be a nice guy and a head coach and Daboll seems more like a nice guy than a tough one. Both guys have flaws. Flores got canned because he got into arguments with his GM, QB, and probably his OC considering he hasn't stuck with any for a while. 2019 OC Chad O'Shea, DC Pat Graham 2020 OC Chan Gailey, DC Josh Boyer 2021 OC George Godsey and Eric Studesville, DC Josh Boyer Here's the kicker. Neither Godsey or Studesville called the plays. It was QB coach Charlie Frye. That's my primary worry with him, and his conservative nature is reminiscent of Judge. That doesn't fly really good with me. I would prefer someone who's more aggressive and has a better idea on how to win in this league and that's scoring points. Dolphins won, what was it, seven in a row? And none of those wins impressed me. They beat scrubs. I think Flores is a good coach but he has warts and it concerns me.

Yes. Share them as well. His staffs were really not good at all and the turnover was problematic. If Mara really is insistent on trying to develop Jones this year, Flores is not the HC I'd be bringing in. He's hard on QBs and offensive players (not sure if his defensive predisposition, but supposedly a lot of offensive players had problems with Flores and felt he played favorites with his defenders).

I just hope they get it right this time. I usually sign off

"Let's Go New York Football Giants"

but for the past few years I had to change the NY meaning to

"Let's Go Next Year Football Giants"

his work with the offense and DJ, but can he put together an exceptional staff #1 and can he manage a Team? I’m confident in his ability to improve our Offensive production, especially if Schoen is going to improve the oline, but will we be going through growing pains with another new HC?

1st power struggle.

Owner wants Flores and Shoen wants Daboll.

Just a guess.

Interesting to watch.

I doubt any of this is coming from the Giants. It is just a lot of hot air and speculation on a lot of people's part.

In comment 15579858 Joeguido said:

Quote:

I just hope they get it right this time. I usually sign off "Let's Go New York Football Giants" but for the past few years I had to change the NY meaning to "Let's Go Next Year Football Giants"

No matter who they pick there will be some who say they got it right and some who say they made the wrong choice. Its just the way of the fan base and the media.

but I just can't shake the feeling that Flores would be a different version, but effectively the same, as Joe Judge.

You can look at it from a different perspective. He cycled through OC's and his first one hired was a head scratcher. What if you assisted with ironing that out or he acknowledged his mistakes and presented some better choices this time?

Sometimes you have to project imv. What he does seem to have is the ability to lead and get wins on Sunday with some pretty significant roster constraints. So it seems you have someone with a lot of upside if........

In comment 15579858 Joeguido said:

Quote:

I just hope they get it right this time. I usually sign off "Let's Go New York Football Giants" but for the past few years I had to change the NY meaning to "Let's Go Next Year Football Giants"

.

The problem is the media & fanbase has been saying that
for the last 2 coaches, 'hope they get it right this time'.
Unfortunately that has not been the case.
They better get it right!

In comment 15579358 larryflower37 said:

Quote:

Too much nonsense leaking out of Miami.I Don't want another hardheaded Bill Belichick disciple. I am surprised so many want another NE guy.

.

When 'there's smoke, there is usually fire'...
I would not feel comfortable with his hiring, I say Daboll.
I think you need an offensive minded HC to get this offense fixed around here.
Don't minimize just how much he helped
Josh Allen as well.

In comment 15579643 I Love Clams Casino said:

Quote:

The opinion of the Giants FO in the league is that the Giants ownership is gullible. The Giants somehow think that the collective NFL ownership is a "good ole boys club". The Giants ownership "gets opinions" from people like Bill Belichek, who in turn to further their own teams interests and essentially "dump" head coaching candidates on the Giants, walk away and laugh.

I have wondered recently if the reason Belichick talked up Judge so much to Mara is that he found him annoying and wanted him to go away but had no good cause to fire him.