deserved another year at least as head coach. He may have needed a bench coach and certainly needed an OC and OL coach who had spent time with the team and with JJ. Give him an OL and good offensive positioning coaching on an NFL level and I don’t think any new HC overall will be any better than JJ.
If physically OK, DJ deserves another two years, one to play in and one as security. He is still very young, athletically gifted, but needs an offense scheme to thrive in and players to play with. He has not, NOT had an OC or time in a qb friendly offense. He is smart, a hard working, dedicated football player. His basketball skills testify to his vision and ability to have more than straight ahead speed.
Most here represent the Jacobean mob yelling for blood. Not a way to run an organization as complex as a NFL football team in 21st century We have a new GM who was a #1 need. Time for him and the fans to be careful and wise in making choices as critical as qb, HC, and coordinators. Let’s not lapse into change for change sake. There’s plenty work for the new GM to do in revitalizing the FO, installing a 21st century data management and prediction system, improving the training, medical and physical development groups, and evaluating and drafting football players rather than players in an inflated FA market.
We will need to take these steps and watch how we become a competitive, and then winning team. Evaluation and wise changes is what count, not explosions and anarchist revisionism.
I'm really curious to hear about Daniel Jones' status for 2022 and if he'll be ready Week 1. I suspect that Mara might know more about his prognosis and that may have to do with the quick decision to rebuild.
That aside I have 2 things, I think it was the right move to get rid of Judge now. He was melting down in his post game pressers. That’s never a good sign
I also don’t appreciate the use of my last name as a metaphor for an angry mob
My biggest issue with Judge was his in game management did not improve at all in his 2 years. If your going to hold your players to an improvement standard you need to be held to one yourself. I agree he should have had a bench coach to learn from, but really they blew that when they made Graham the assistant head coach. That role should have been given to someone with head coaching experience that could have helped mentor him.
IMO I still think he can be a good HC if he goes back to another team (Not the Pats) and learns the the offensive or defensive side of the ball. For ex. Take a job as a LB coach with a team like KC or
SF (start at specials only if you have to) and work your way back up to a DC. You will learn in game management better when you are responsible for coaching either side of the ball. I am not saying you can't from coaching special teams but you don't have the same in game responsibilities. Then if you can excel as a coordinator he will be a much more well rounded coach and some team will take a shot on him. But he better choose wisely
That aside I have 2 things, I think it was the right move to get rid of Judge now. He was melting down in his post game pressers. That’s never a good sign
I also don’t appreciate the use of my last name as a metaphor for an angry mob
Called game management, Bills have one in an asst WR Coach
The truth is that Joe Judge never should have been hired. He wasn’t ready, he wasn’t qualified and he didn’t do a good job when given the opportunity. This worry about firing a guy who produced two pathetic seasons I simply don’t understand.
Ditto for Jones who no one ever projected to be maybe and backup or middling game manager. And ditto to every other player on the Giants who’s not producing. I’m tired of seeing the Giants lose on game day. We’re the worst team in the NFL. Any fan paying attention to the NFL should see that the Giants are poorly run and need massive change. That change has started, yes again, by Mara saying that the losing isn’t acceptable. Losers in the NFL don’t magically turn into winners with seasoning and patience, they just keep losing. I honestly don’t know why anyone takes umbrage with the simple mandate of “win or else”.
The truth is that Joe Judge never should have been hired. He wasn’t ready, he wasn’t qualified and he didn’t do a good job when given the opportunity. This worry about firing a guy who produced two pathetic seasons I simply don’t understand.
Ditto for Jones who no one ever projected to be maybe and backup or middling game manager. And ditto to every other player on the Giants who’s not producing. I’m tired of seeing the Giants lose on game day. We’re the worst team in the NFL. Any fan paying attention to the NFL should see that the Giants are poorly run and need massive change. That change has started, yes again, by Mara saying that the losing isn’t acceptable. Losers in the NFL don’t magically turn into winners with seasoning and patience, they just keep losing. I honestly don’t know why anyone takes umbrage with the simple mandate of “win or else”.
+1
Typically this doesn't change no matter the roster.
You either know wtf you're doing, or you don't.
You give him the 2011 Giants roster and he still wouldn't win.
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As a bench coach in the NFL?
That aside I have 2 things, I think it was the right move to get rid of Judge now. He was melting down in his post game pressers. That’s never a good sign
I also don’t appreciate the use of my last name as a metaphor for an angry mob
Called game management, Bills have one in an asst WR Coach
Oh ok, i thought it was more of say Pat Graham being the "assistant head coach" But to the OP point, Judge seemed terrible at game management so that might have helped.
As for Judge, unless you wanted Abrams as GM, there was no way to keep him as HC, and if he needs a chaperone on the sideline maybe the job was too big for him.
Two more years because he works hard and is good at basketball??
Time and again he showed an inability to manage the clock, and there were too many "womp-womp" moments where he was outmaneuvered by the opposing coach.
Perhaps a nice guy, but he never should have been hired in the first place.
There was no rational basis to give Judge another year. The team went backwards after spending 100 million on free agents. He fought with his staff, half the team packed it in the last 6 weeks of the season, and he either suffered a mental collapse or simply pitched a snit by the end. Good riddance.
Jones is what he was coming out of college, a not very talented passer who got as far as he did off 4 years of professional qb coaching from Cutcliffe, a passing physical resemblance to Eli Manning, the abject stupidity and ignorance of Mara, Gettlemen and the rest of the merry band of yokels in the front office and a few games his rookie year. Part of the reason poor ol' Daniel has gone through two coaches and three OC's is Daniel Jones. Once DC's got a book on him, the party was over. Enough already. The nightmare is that he improves to mediocrity and Jawn and his talented scout brother feel he has been saved and back the truck up with a contract.
So despite going backwards to a 4-12 record, there are posters who still want to keep the same crew in place. SMH
This is a production league, and he doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't produce touchdowns, he is what he was at Duke.
He was overdrafted. Judge was overhired. Mara and Tisch blew two more crucial decisions.
Players are different from coaches, you operate in a salary cap and right now there is no gain from cutting DJ. His salary is guaranteed and while he hasnt been consistently good, he is not a disaster either. He has an $8mil cap number whether he plays or you cut him so he does deserve 1 more year not 2 yet. Look at his career so far, he came in late in season 1 and showed some promise. Year 2 with a new coach and salary cap barely had any talent around him. Year 3 the leap year didnt pan out and again his weapons never really played together. He should be here next season if healthy. With our cap situation even if we draft a QB it would cost us more to bring in a backup than to keep DJ. If we cut him we need a starter and a backup.
Better to rip off the band aid and start over.
Giving a losing coach who is going off the deep end in press conference another year just to give him another year is silly. Instability is a problem, but the answer is not stability with people who haven't shown they can do the job.
And Jones? Again I don't understand the way some people look at the QB position differently than every other one. Why do you want to avoid competition and make sure there is only one person who can play it and make sure they feel noting but safe and secure? This is the NFL. If you don't perform you should be worried about losing your job to someone who is better.
The Giants need higher standards. What you are suggesting is just lowering them until people you like meet them.
Your record is your record. Name one franchise QB that turned into a star in year 4 especially coming from Duke. And please don’t use AR as an example as he mentored behind Farve. Move on or will will be just adding on years to the past.
Yup and I'm sure either the Patriots or one of his buddies in college will give him a soft landing.
I like him and was rooting for him, but he wasn't up to the job
Giving a losing coach who is going off the deep end in press conference another year just to give him another year is silly. Instability is a problem, but the answer is not stability with people who haven't shown they can do the job.
And Jones? Again I don't understand the way some people look at the QB position differently than every other one. Why do you want to avoid competition and make sure there is only one person who can play it and make sure they feel noting but safe and secure? This is the NFL. If you don't perform you should be worried about losing your job to someone who is better.
The Giants need higher standards. What you are suggesting is just lowering them until people you like meet them.
There’s not much of a difference between Jones performance and Engrams, but one is universally loathed while one is coddled. I mean even look at Jones vs Toney, who has only been here a year. It’s weird the most important position gets kid gloves
I also don’t appreciate the use of my last name as a metaphor for an angry mob
neither does Brandon Jacobs. maybe.
People will deny it but I swear it's because he reminds them of Eli.
The Giants' precious resources are time and money. They need to use it wisely to get us on a winning footing as soon as possible.
Daniel Jones has never shown he can play consistently at an elite level. His numbers don't show it, his record doesn't show it, his traits do not indicate it.
You are asking him to do something he has never done in his entire life, play at an elite level, not for one play, not for one series, not for one game, but for 500 attempts, across 17 games. And then to ratchet it up from there and get better in the playoffs - like the great ones do.
You cannot count on Daniel Jones to transform into something he has never been. You cannot bet two more years on it and whatever chunk of the cap it will take. It is irresponsible to the team and to the fans.
You say the anti-Jones crowd is an anarchic mob who is impatient. Well I say you are letting emotion cloud your judgment. Teams are indeed turning around once they find the right QB, just look at the Bengals, Cards and Chargers, for starters. The Giants are a $5B football team and Daniel Jones is a millionaire who is bad at his job and likely won't get much better.
Of course every QB will improve when you make the supporting cast better. But Jones is somewhere between #22 and #28. What will he improve to? #18. That's not good enough. You want to sink two more years into that probability? The logical thing to do is to look aggressively for a new franchise QB.
That's not anarchy, that is cold, hard logic. Your way, you are not turning Daniel Jones into a butterfly, instead you are consigning us to two more years of lousy football and pushing the pushing the turnaround down the road.
This is a production league, and he doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't produce touchdowns, he is what he was at Duke.
He was overdrafted. Judge was overhired. Mara and Tisch blew two more crucial decisions.
The Giants' precious resources are time and money. They need to use it wisely to get us on a winning footing as soon as possible.
Daniel Jones has never shown he can play consistently at an elite level. His numbers don't show it, his record doesn't show it, his traits do not indicate it.
You are asking him to do something he has never done in his entire life, play at an elite level, not for one play, not for one series, not for one game, but for 500 attempts, across 17 games. And then to ratchet it up from there and get better in the playoffs - like the great ones do.
You cannot count on Daniel Jones to transform into something he has never been. You cannot bet two more years on it and whatever chunk of the cap it will take. It is irresponsible to the team and to the fans.
You say the anti-Jones crowd is an anarchic mob who is impatient. Well I say you are letting emotion cloud your judgment. Teams are indeed turning around once they find the right QB, just look at the Bengals, Cards and Chargers, for starters. The Giants are a $5B football team and Daniel Jones is a millionaire who is bad at his job and likely won't get much better.
Of course every QB will improve when you make the supporting cast better. But Jones is somewhere between #22 and #28. What will he improve to? #18. That's not good enough. You want to sink two more years into that probability? The logical thing to do is to look aggressively for a new franchise QB.
That's not anarchy, that is cold, hard logic. Your way, you are not turning Daniel Jones into a butterfly, instead you are consigning us to two more years of lousy football and pushing the pushing the turnaround down the road.
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It was poor to awful. He turtled up in 2021 and then he gave up. Don't spend another minute worrying about him, he made $25M from being overhired and failing, he'll be fine.
Did you drink sodium pentothal this morning? You are usually much less blunt than I am.
I'll admit watching someone pocket $25M for two years of work grates on my nerves. I don't wanna work until I'm 70, lol.
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It’s weird the most important position gets kid gloves
People will deny it but I swear it's because he reminds them of Eli.
Might be two years before we are ready to actually go out and get one or one worthy of getting that fits their type could be that simple
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It’s weird the most important position gets kid gloves
People will deny it but I swear it's because he reminds them of Eli.
I swear...I think we actually drafted him because he looked like Eli & had the Cutliffe connection. I am not kidding when I say that.
DJ, I think is at least a good placeholder QB while some other areas of the team are addressed. I think 2 years is good. Get 2 good drafts, fix up some weak points in the roster and in talent acquisition and development, then find the franchise QB, whether that is someone you draft this year (doubtful), next year, a future trade or what... DJ can man the spot during this reset.
In the meanwhile, develop and become experienced with a QB friendly offense that would fit a variety of talents. When we get the future QB we don't want everyone learning the system all at once.
What do you propose paying Jones for the 5th year he “deserves”?
Can anyone dispute that you need to put competence around your QB, not failure?
Can anyone dispute that you need to put competence around your QB, not failure?
Are the Bengals an organization you look up to? The Chargers? Both very flawed organizations. QBs seem to be doing fine there.