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Confused over all the BBI threads about Flores vs Daboll

M.S. : 1/28/2022 7:11 am

It is surprising that the vast majority of BBIers have not been rooting for Brian Daboll.

Why?

Because the vast majority of BBIers have been kicking and screaming about having an independent General Manger who gets to pick his own Head Coach, and the selection of Daboll over Flores fulfills that collective BBI wish.

No?
No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/28/2022 7:13 am : link
That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.
RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 7:23 am : link
In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.

So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?
RE: RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
Mike in NY : 1/28/2022 7:27 am : link
In comment 15579447 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?


The vast majority of BBIers have been vehement about Mara injecting himself into the process with a clearly unqualified coach who would be a lackey for him and his family (see Jason Garrett) or does not understand how games are won in today’s NFL (also Jason Garrett).
And while I agree that Daboll is Schoen's guy  
robbieballs2003 : 1/28/2022 7:29 am : link
We don't know that as a fact. How does debating the two mean people who have the opinion that Schoen should hire Daboll mean they are going against their belief that Schoen should make the decision. We all make thousands of decisions every day. Does that mean we don't get input from others?
I want the GM to pick his guy.  
Giant John : 1/28/2022 7:30 am : link
No issues with that. I want Mara to bless whoever that is.
RE: RE: RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 7:35 am : link
In comment 15579452 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15579447 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?



The vast majority of BBIers have been vehement about Mara injecting himself into the process with a clearly unqualified coach who would be a lackey for him and his family (see Jason Garrett) or does not understand how games are won in today’s NFL (also Jason Garrett).

So, are you saying that -- so long as Mara makes smart recommendations / decisions -- it's OK for him to inject himself into the process? Am I reading that right?
RE: RE: RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
section125 : 1/28/2022 7:35 am : link
In comment 15579452 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15579447 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?



The vast majority of BBIers have been vehement about Mara injecting himself into the process with a clearly unqualified coach who would be a lackey for him and his family (see Jason Garrett) or does not understand how games are won in today’s NFL (also Jason Garrett).


Well without all the superfluous bullshit, this is correct. Mara and Tisch have blown the last bunch of hirings. Nobody wants Mara influencing the pick.

However, what some are missing or surmising is that Flores is only here because of Mara and not because Flores is a really good HC that Schoen's former team played against twice a year for the last three year. So Schoen could see first hand what Flores was doing with MIami.

Also, Daboll is an offense minded coach and the Giants offense is pure garbage, clueless, inept and incompetent. Flores is a defense coach and the Giants defense was mostly decent(kindly put). So many think it is more important to get the offense into the 2020's and maybe score more than 12 points per game.
Also, Bill Parcells recently spoke very highly about Flores  
Ira : 1/28/2022 7:39 am : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/28/2022 7:39 am : link
In comment 15579463 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15579452 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15579447 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?



The vast majority of BBIers have been vehement about Mara injecting himself into the process with a clearly unqualified coach who would be a lackey for him and his family (see Jason Garrett) or does not understand how games are won in today’s NFL (also Jason Garrett).


So, are you saying that -- so long as Mara makes smart recommendations / decisions -- it's OK for him to inject himself into the process? Am I reading that right?


He's the owner. Anyone thinking he's just going to go on vacation and never come back is completely ignorant. Name one owner in any business that doesn't know what is going on in his business. It is collaborative as we've heard many times. The owners will be involved but Schoen gets the final decision as has been stated. What is wrong with that? If Schoen is a pussy and gives in to others over his own gut then he's the wrong guy just as is a GM who doesn't seek other opinions and info. Collaboration is the key but so is Schoen making the right decisonss.
And I will add this  
robbieballs2003 : 1/28/2022 7:47 am : link
Have you ever lived with a friend or girlfriend or whatever where it didn't work out? The situation changed and so did the relationship. Same goes for this. Just because Schoen and Daboll know each other well and worked together doesn't mean it'll be the same in a different situation. There's no guarantee just because they work well together now that it will work out in NY as a GM and a HC. I don't want this hire to be a "his guy" type of situation. It should be who is best for the NYG. If Flores' vision and Schoen's vision don't align then fine.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 7:54 am : link
In comment 15579470 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15579463 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15579452 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15579447 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


So, are you saying that the vast majority of BBIers have not been vehment about Mara staying out of the Head Coach selection process, and that the decision should be left strictly to "football people"... i.e. Joe Schoen?



The vast majority of BBIers have been vehement about Mara injecting himself into the process with a clearly unqualified coach who would be a lackey for him and his family (see Jason Garrett) or does not understand how games are won in today’s NFL (also Jason Garrett).


So, are you saying that -- so long as Mara makes smart recommendations / decisions -- it's OK for him to inject himself into the process? Am I reading that right?



He's the owner. Anyone thinking he's just going to go on vacation and never come back is completely ignorant. Name one owner in any business that doesn't know what is going on in his business. It is collaborative as we've heard many times. The owners will be involved but Schoen gets the final decision as has been stated. What is wrong with that? If Schoen is a pussy and gives in to others over his own gut then he's the wrong guy just as is a GM who doesn't seek other opinions and info. Collaboration is the key but so is Schoen making the right decisonss.

I agree with all of this. Makes sense to me.

My own view of Mara-involvement vs non-involvement, and Flores vs Daboll, and Schoen vs Mara is pretty simple. Doesn't interest me much at all.

But, clearly, it does for a significant number of BBIers and my reading of the collective viewpoints boiled down to the thread-starter (at least in my mind.) Sure, it was a simplification. But it made sense to me on a cold Friday morning at 7:11am. (:-)
What's gonna make sense to you tomorrow?  
robbieballs2003 : 1/28/2022 7:57 am : link
Lol. This snow is gonna be rough.
And one mo' thing  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 7:57 am : link

If Brian Flores is the choice, there are going to be numerous BBIers who will express the nagging doubt about John Mara inserting himself (too much) into the Head Coach decision-making process.

Depend upon it.
if the Giants  
Steve in Greenwich : 1/28/2022 7:59 am : link
end up with Flores instead of Daboll it doesn't necessarily mean John Mara trumped Schoen. I heard early on in the process that Daboll is the guy the Giants want (granted this was before the Flores interview), but that doesn't necessarily mean the Giants are Daboll's top choice. Wouldn't immediately jump on the John Mara overruled Schoen if Flores ends up being the guy.
RE: And I will add this  
section125 : 1/28/2022 8:00 am : link
In comment 15579483 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Have you ever lived with a friend or girlfriend or whatever where it didn't work out? The situation changed and so did the relationship. Same goes for this. Just because Schoen and Daboll know each other well and worked together doesn't mean it'll be the same in a different situation. There's no guarantee just because they work well together now that it will work out in NY as a GM and a HC. I don't want this hire to be a "his guy" type of situation. It should be who is best for the NYG. If Flores' vision and Schoen's vision don't align then fine.


Good point. While Schoen may have liked Daboll's offense with Allen in Buffalo, it does not necessarily mean Daboll's overall vision matches Schoen's. Flores' vision for the Giants future may more closely align with where Schoen thinks the Giants need to go.

Let's face it, we as Giants fans are mostly a defensive minded group and most likely so is Mara. Giants' history is more about solid defense and grind them down offense. This could very well be why Mara seems(we do not have a clue) to like Flores. But WTF knows.
RE: Also, Bill Parcells recently spoke very highly about Flores  
GFAN52 : 1/28/2022 8:03 am : link
In comment 15579468 Ira said:
Quote:
.


link?
RE: What's gonna make sense to you tomorrow?  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 8:03 am : link
In comment 15579497 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Lol. This snow is gonna be rough.

(:-)
RE: if the Giants  
M.S. : 1/28/2022 8:04 am : link
In comment 15579503 Steve in Greenwich said:
Quote:
end up with Flores instead of Daboll it doesn't necessarily mean John Mara trumped Schoen. I heard early on in the process that Daboll is the guy the Giants want (granted this was before the Flores interview), but that doesn't necessarily mean the Giants are Daboll's top choice. Wouldn't immediately jump on the John Mara overruled Schoen if Flores ends up being the guy.

Your point is well taken. Maybe Brian Daboll doesn't want to come here even if both Schoen and Mara WANT him. If that's the case, who could blame Brian Daboll?
Agree with you M.S.  
ZogZerg : 1/28/2022 8:06 am : link
It's pretty obvious that Daboll is Schoen's guy.

So, if he's not selected then it seems like ownership has already influenced the concept of the new GM rebuilding the team. And, I think most BBI is against ownership butting in again.
RE: RE: if the Giants  
section125 : 1/28/2022 8:08 am : link
In comment 15579511 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 15579503 Steve in Greenwich said:


Quote:


end up with Flores instead of Daboll it doesn't necessarily mean John Mara trumped Schoen. I heard early on in the process that Daboll is the guy the Giants want (granted this was before the Flores interview), but that doesn't necessarily mean the Giants are Daboll's top choice. Wouldn't immediately jump on the John Mara overruled Schoen if Flores ends up being the guy.


Your point is well taken. Maybe Brian Daboll doesn't want to come here even if both Schoen and Mara WANT him. If that's the case, who could blame Brian Daboll?


He would not be still in the queue if he didn't want to be here.
RE: Agree with you M.S.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/28/2022 8:21 am : link
In comment 15579513 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
It's pretty obvious that Daboll is Schoen's guy.

So, if he's not selected then it seems like ownership has already influenced the concept of the new GM rebuilding the team. And, I think most BBI is against ownership butting in again.


I think it was fairly obvious Daboll was Schoen's guy when the process began.

However, I do not think it's as obvious today, and possible Daboll has not held serve over this past week.

BBI should be against ownership negatively overriding Schoen's choices. But do not incorrectly presume that is what happened if Daboll isn't chosen...
HC choice by Schoen may rest with his vision for Giants  
kelly : 1/28/2022 8:23 am : link
If his vision is to rebuild Giants to glory days he will want a tough defense and a play action offense which may lead to Flores.

If he wants the Buffalo or KC model he may lean towards Daboll

Although I think he picks Daboll. I would not be surprised if he goes Flores. His early years he was influenced by Parcels and he was a Bavaro fan.

As a Giant fan I prefer tough defense and smash mouth football. Similar to Ravens and Steelers.
If I were an owner of the team I would want to know  
Rudy5757 : 1/28/2022 8:25 am : link
the people they interviewed before they gave someone the job. Id want them to interview several people and not just hand it to his buddy. There are tons of coordinators that look great before they are head coach. As the GM I may have final decision but I would bring in the guy that the owner suggested because if you dont a Daboll is a complete disaster youre the idiot who hired him without vetting a bunch of other more qualified candidates.

You have to admit that Flores has a better resume and more experience in pretty much this exact situation.
RE: And one mo' thing  
Jim in Tampa : 1/28/2022 8:27 am : link
In comment 15579498 M.S. said:
Quote:

If Brian Flores is the choice, there are going to be numerous BBIers who will express the nagging doubt about John Mara inserting himself (too much) into the Head Coach decision-making process.

Depend upon it.

And if Daboll is the choice, and he fails, people here will bitch about Schoen not running a legitimate HC search and just hiring the guy he wanted before the interviews began. (Just like when Mara did when he hired Gettleman.)

The thing that bothers me about the Schoen/Daboll package deal is that I've watched 3 interviews of Schoen and every time he's been asked the question..."What do you look for in a HC?" he answers it the same way.

The very first thing he says, every time, is that he's looking for a HC that he can work with. That just doesn't seem like it should be the first thing any GM loks for in a HC.

If Schoen is all he is cracked up to be...  
Brown_Hornet : 1/28/2022 8:32 am : link
...he will get his guy regardless of Mara's input.

I also would expect that he had "a guy" in mind prior to the hiring. But, if in fact he is as good as he is purported to be, he has an open mind and may very likely change it should he see something that he prefers in Flores.

I am thinking back to Sy's post  
section125 : 1/28/2022 8:32 am : link
yesterday. How often has SY been wrong? He did his picks vs the Giants actual picks for about the last 10 years and it was scary how good Sy was and how bad the Giants' picks were.

Yes, Sy is not 100% correct all the time. But he has certainly been better then the Giants. I have to admit I was squarely in Daboll's corner and after reading that post I have moved both Daboll and Flores closer together and will be happy with either.
McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge and Daboll ...  
Spider56 : 1/28/2022 8:38 am : link
What do they have in common ... none of them had any prior demonstrated accomplishment being a HC ... why would we expect the results to be in any different? Especially with a first time GM.
RE: No, people are not bitching over the GM hiring his own guy.  
joeinpa : 1/28/2022 8:42 am : link
In comment 15579440 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
That's what you made up. Fitting "BBI" into one group is ridiculous. There are many layers to this.


Maybe I ve misinterpreted some posts. But I distinctly got the impression that some feel a Flores hire is another example of Mara forcing a coach, like he did with Garrett

It s one reason I would like the Daboll choice, it would be strike 4 on the “Mara theories” of how this off season was going to be handled, and we can move on from that.

Plus, the, “It s an offensive league, and the Giants offense needs fixing” theory resonates with me.
I'm just not sure it's so clear that Daboll actually is Schoen's guy  
Giantfan in skinland : 1/28/2022 8:44 am : link
Yes. He knows him. But what is our evidence beyond that that Schoen prefers him to Flores?

All we have so far is beat writers connecting dots. Schoen was in Buffalo, Daboll was in Buffalo, maybe they go together.

Sometimes that's true...and sometimes...it's not. He also may have doubts about Daboll's ability to make the leap BECAUSE of his close association with him.

What we do know is that it seems impossible that Schoen or others went through the hiring process without articulating who their preferences were for the HC. As maligned as Mara's decisions/meddling are, it just strikes me as particularly odd that he would hire Schoen off of "I want Daboll" if what Mara wanted was Flores. Frankly, what many perceived as meddling (i.e., bringing in Flores before the Schoen hire) may have actually been a direct result of what Schoen said in his interview and moving quickly to not get beat to the punch on a coach like they did the last time around.

Its honestly all speculation. Nobody knows exactly who Schoen's guy really is or isn't. Totally fine with taking the position of not giving the Giants ownership the benefit of the doubt, but also think people need to acknowledge that the best we can do is wait and see, because we don't actually have any of the facts.
RE: McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge and Daboll ...  
Giantfan in skinland : 1/28/2022 8:46 am : link
In comment 15579544 Spider56 said:
Quote:
What do they have in common ... none of them had any prior demonstrated accomplishment being a HC ... why would we expect the results to be in any different? Especially with a first time GM.


This is a silly line of reasoning. There are successful first time coaches and there are failure retreads. Each candidate is his own guy. I'd argue that the biggest problem with the Giants processes over the past few years has been a tendency to over correct for past failures.

I have my doubts about both Flores and Daboll. But we need to evaluate them for their own strengths and weaknesses, not those of Judge, Mac, or Shurmur.
RE: And one mo' thing  
DonnieD89 : 1/28/2022 8:47 am : link
In comment 15579498 M.S. said:
Quote:

If Brian Flores is the choice, there are going to be numerous BBIers who will express the nagging doubt about John Mara inserting himself (too much) into the Head Coach decision-making process.

Depend upon it.


Indeed this will happen. I think BBIers are not considering that from the very beginning, during Shoen’s interview, Ownership and Shoen discussed potential HC candidates as to whether they on board with Flores. Don’t you think Shoen would not take the job if they forced Flores on him upon disagreement?
Schoen has said if a “consensus” can’t be reached..  
Sean : 1/28/2022 8:54 am : link
They will reopen the search.
Here's the crux of it  
JonC : 1/28/2022 8:58 am : link
Media started to print the Giants had reached out to Flores and Quinn for interviews before the GM was hired. That set off a shit storm for some because it suggests Mara/Tisch were already working on a HC list of their own. There's also been a consistent stream of info re: Flores that's likely coming from his agent, and some of it feels like it came from Mara and both streams are arriving with Ian O'Connor.

But, if you factor in the past years of behaviors and decisions of Mara, I don't see how you push it aside as absolutely nothing to see here. YMMV

That said, I'm not losing a minute of sleep over it. The Giants will suck until someone figures out how to fix it, and part of it will be to get the football dummies out of decision making.
RE: Agree with you M.S.  
Milton : 1/28/2022 8:59 am : link
In comment 15579513 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
It's pretty obvious that Daboll is Schoen's guy.

So, if he's not selected then it seems like ownership has already influenced the concept of the new GM rebuilding the team. And, I think most BBI is against ownership butting in again.
Seems? I know not seems. If Daboll is not selected, then it means that Daboll being Schoen's guy was about as obvious as the earth being flat. Why must we see a conspiracy in it simply to justify our false impression of what was obvious? Can't we just admit that our uninformed opinion was wrong...
...not exactly right. - ( New Window )
There is no collective BBI opinion  
Mike from Ohio : 1/28/2022 9:11 am : link
The spectrum of opinion here runs all the way from Sith Lord Mara using mind tricks to control the universe, to Joe Schoen as the new sherrif in town who starts his day by giving Mara swirlies in his own office toilet.

Today or tomorrow they will likely announce either Flores or Daboll and half of BBI will complain about it and half will love it. Either way, people will retain their allegiance to their theories and their beliefs despite no knowledge one was or the other.

All that matters is what starts happening on the field. We don't know the process so all we can do is evaluate the results.

RE: There is no collective BBI opinion  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:14 am : link
In comment 15579586 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
The spectrum of opinion here runs all the way from Sith Lord Mara using mind tricks to control the universe, to Joe Schoen as the new sherrif in town who starts his day by giving Mara swirlies in his own office toilet.

Today or tomorrow they will likely announce either Flores or Daboll and half of BBI will complain about it and half will love it. Either way, people will retain their allegiance to their theories and their beliefs despite no knowledge one was or the other.

My apologies

All that matters is what starts happening on the field. We don't know the process so all we can do is evaluate the results.
RE: RE: There is no collective BBI opinion  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:14 am : link
In comment 15579589 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 15579586 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


The spectrum of opinion here runs all the way from Sith Lord Mara using mind tricks to control the universe, to Joe Schoen as the new sherrif in town who starts his day by giving Mara swirlies in his own office toilet.

Today or tomorrow they will likely announce either Flores or Daboll and half of BBI will complain about it and half will love it. Either way, people will retain their allegiance to their theories and their beliefs despite no knowledge one was or the other.

My apologies

All that matters is what starts happening on the field. We don't know the process so all we can do is evaluate the results.




My apologies re the other post. My bad
RE: Agree with you M.S.  
eli4life : 1/28/2022 9:17 am : link
In comment 15579513 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
It's pretty obvious that Daboll is Schoen's guy.

So, if he's not selected then it seems like ownership has already influenced the concept of the new GM rebuilding the team. And, I think most BBI is against ownership butting in again.


But what if Flores won over schoen and schoen actually picked Flores? It will immediately be of schoen gave in to Mara he’s a pussy. Or if he takes daboll the other half of bbi will be like he only picked his guy.

Either way he’s screwed. The only way he can avoid that is to pick Frazier then that would blow up bbi
BB  
Mike from Ohio : 1/28/2022 9:29 am : link
No apology necessary. Everybody could stand to be a little kinder, myself included.
Mercy  
Slowasski : 1/28/2022 9:33 am : link
Is for the weak, a man confronts you, he is the enemy! An enemy deserves no mercy! What is the problem Mike in Ohio!?
RE: BB  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:34 am : link
In comment 15579615 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
No apology necessary. Everybody could stand to be a little kinder, myself included.


Just so you know, you are the LEAST person who is capable of trolling..I misunderstood and reacted
If it's Daboll  
Harvest Blend : 1/28/2022 9:38 am : link
then Schoen was locked into him the whole time and the rest was window dressing and if it's Flores then Mara stuck his nose in and Schoen is a puppet.

You can see it coming a mile away.
RE: RE: McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge and Daboll ...  
Spider56 : 1/28/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15579554 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
In comment 15579544 Spider56 said:


Quote:


What do they have in common ... none of them had any prior demonstrated accomplishment being a HC ... why would we expect the results to be in any different? Especially with a first time GM.



This is a silly line of reasoning. There are successful first time coaches and there are failure retreads. Each candidate is his own guy. I'd argue that the biggest problem with the Giants processes over the past few years has been a tendency to over correct for past failures.

I have my doubts about both Flores and Daboll. But we need to evaluate them for their own strengths and weaknesses, not those of Judge, Mac, or Shurmur.


Let me rephrase ... after the past 6 years, I do not want to go thru another learning curve of a 1st time HC especially with everything else swirling around the team. New GM, questions up and down the roster, etc. We have no idea who Daboll can recruit for his staff, nor how he’ll handle the NY and media pressure or his game mgmt / sideline skills. I simply want someone who’s been there before and is both young and smart enough to learn from previous mistakes. Everybody talks about Daboll progress with Allen, and for that he deserves praise ... but in this role, how much time will he really be able to spend with DJ ? Even Shurnur had some previous experience as an interim HC.
RE: If it's Daboll  
DonnieD89 : 1/28/2022 9:49 am : link
In comment 15579634 Harvest Blend said:
Quote:
then Schoen was locked into him the whole time and the rest was window dressing and if it's Flores then Mara stuck his nose in and Schoen is a puppet.

You can see it coming a mile away.


Yep. That is why am not going to get worked up over this. Regardless, there is going to be a conspiracy theory. All I want is for the Giants to start winning on a regular basis. I don’t give a flying shit who they select.
RE: Here's the crux of it  
UberAlias : 1/28/2022 9:52 am : link
In comment 15579569 JonC said:
Quote:
Media started to print the Giants had reached out to Flores and Quinn for interviews before the GM was hired. That set off a shit storm for some because it suggests Mara/Tisch were already working on a HC list of their own. There's also been a consistent stream of info re: Flores that's likely coming from his agent, and some of it feels like it came from Mara and both streams are arriving with Ian O'Connor.

But, if you factor in the past years of behaviors and decisions of Mara, I don't see how you push it aside as absolutely nothing to see here. YMMV

That said, I'm not losing a minute of sleep over it. The Giants will suck until someone figures out how to fix it, and part of it will be to get the football dummies out of decision making.
This is all true. But at the same time, locking Schoen in a dark room and having him make a decision in a vacuum is probably not a good idea either. If Mara believes that a coach who has prior HC experience is a plus, it is not like he doesn't have good reason to ask given our recent experience here in NY. And it's not his thinking along --Mike Tannenbaum has been stating for some time his belief that pairing the new GM with a coach with prior experience is important, and he is saying this based on his own experience.

IMO, there is a difference between Mara forcing his choice on Schoen verses having healthy discussion. Mara saying, before we dive in, are you sure about this should not be out of bounds --it should be encouraged, IMO provided Schoen has the final say, which is the expectation.
Why would anyone assume what Schoen thinks of Daboll?  
PatersonPlank : 1/28/2022 10:16 am : link
Maybe they started out fine and soured? Haven't you ever had a working relationship with someone, but when you moved on you wouldn't consider hiring them again where you are? Also maybe Schoen has a high opinion of Flores, it seems most do, and knows him from previous roles (or has friends who know him). Lastly, maybe Schoen just feels that the Giants situation needs an experienced HC. So even if he likes Daboll he would not hire him here?

We don't know who Schoen prefers.
Isn’t most of the board  
ajr2456 : 1/28/2022 10:26 am : link
Pro Daboll? What’s this post even mean
RE: RE: If it's Daboll  
Jimmy Googs : 1/28/2022 10:33 am : link
In comment 15579653 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
In comment 15579634 Harvest Blend said:


Quote:


then Schoen was locked into him the whole time and the rest was window dressing and if it's Flores then Mara stuck his nose in and Schoen is a puppet.

You can see it coming a mile away.



Yep. That is why am not going to get worked up over this. Regardless, there is going to be a conspiracy theory. All I want is for the Giants to start winning on a regular basis. I don’t give a flying shit who they select.


As a card-carrying member of the Non-Conspiracy Theorist Association of America, I would be interested in how Daboll being hired in any capacity constitutes a conspiracy?

Look forward to reading from any chucklehead poster that wants to take on that position on this slow Friday...
Somehow I didn't realize flores went to BC  
Jerry in_DC : 1/28/2022 10:39 am : link
I was giving Mara the benefit of the doubt this week - and I do like how things have gone so far.

But you add the BC factor in and now it's pretty easy to see what's happening. Not great.
Jerry  
JonC : 1/28/2022 10:42 am : link
Welcome aboard!

Uber, not suggesting the vacuum, fully understand ownership will play a significant role. But, at a minimum it has the appearance of being the process without the new GM even hired, letting alone running point.
Mara on reaching out preemptively to Flores...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/28/2022 10:58 am : link
per NorthJersey.com

Mara was asked why he reached out to Flores personally last week before the Giants had hired a GM. He said every one of the Giants' GM finalists had Flores on the list of prospective head coach candidates, and he knew Flores had interviewed other places.

So Mara wanted to make sure Flores knew of the Giants' interest.

“I reached out to him because I know he was on all the candidates that we interviewed for general manager, he was on each of their lists,” Mara said. “I see he’s been interviewing elsewhere, and I just wanted to let him know: ‘Before you make a decision, just know that we have interest in you. Make whatever decision you feel like you need to make for you and your family, but just know that we do have interest in you. And once I get the general manager search done, we will be back to you.’ So that was the purpose of that call.”
RE: Jerry  
UberAlias : 1/28/2022 10:59 am : link
In comment 15579823 JonC said:
Quote:
Welcome aboard!

Uber, not suggesting the vacuum, fully understand ownership will play a significant role. But, at a minimum it has the appearance of being the process without the new GM even hired, letting alone running point.
Indeed it does, no doubt.
If Mara  
JonC : 1/28/2022 12:57 pm : link
wasn't such a fumbling bungler I'd be more inclined to relax, but he's not. Regardless, it's not the end all be all decision, they just can't produce anymore big failures, eg extend Jones and hang on to players for too long out of loyalty. Hopefully, Schoen will prove to be the right hire and excel in his post for a decade or more.
Yes, the Giants and bungling go hand-in-hand over the years but  
Jimmy Googs : 1/28/2022 1:10 pm : link
the John Mara early call to Flores is a big whatever.

Realize some of you all are adding up the prior bungles when there is new chance to cry foul, but this one's weak imv...
I'm no chicken hawk, don't lump me  
JonC : 1/28/2022 1:13 pm : link
.
Haha..fair enough. Will make note of that for  
Jimmy Googs : 1/28/2022 1:23 pm : link
future reference...
Flores would be a Mara hire  
WillVAB : 1/28/2022 2:09 pm : link
And an indication that nothing has changed.
I kind of agree with M.S.  
Matt M. : 1/28/2022 4:27 pm : link
A lot here have been clamoring for Mara to STFU and let the GM do his job. I kind of agree. If Shoenlikes Flores 100% on his own, I'm on board. I'll trust him until there's a reason not to. But, if Flores became the guy or even in the running only because of Mara, then that is reason enough for me not to hire him
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