This has been brought up by an individual post or two but I think it needs to be brought in the foreground.
Question: Does anyone here think you would be excited to have Daboll as our HC if Daniel Jones were his QB in Buffalo instead of Josh Allen?
Me personally: I’m 99% certain, I wouldn’t be because I know Buffalo would not be a great team….just a good team. And they certainly would not have had those offensive explosions we just witnessed these past two weeks that are fresh on our minds.
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
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In comment 15580308 Mike from Ohio said:
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why did he last until the 7th pick (3rd QB off the board)?
He was seen as very raw and a developmental guy with a high ceiling. If it was just a matter of handing him the ball and letting him "figure out the NFL," don't you think he would have been the first overall pick?
Josh Allen is an amazing talent, but to pretend coaching had nothing to do with his development is silly.
Most of Josh Allen's big plays are completely out of structure. They didn't coach him to be good at that. You guys are overrating what a coach can do with a QB. He doesn't have a coach in his ear telling him how to evade a rush, how to keep his cool, how to keep his eyes downfield and wait until a play unfolds. That's all auto reaction. If you think Daboll is going to coach Jones into Allen you are sadly mistaken.
It's not a coincidence that Josh Allen is one of the four most talented QBs in the league and also one of the best.
You can't coach a mediocre talent like Jones to become a stud like Allen. Stop fantasizing about it.
Who said he would turn Jones into Allen? He would be being brought here to coach whoever replaces Jones.
And I will let the statement that Allen is achieving everything off script to stand as it is as most people can fully evaluate that on their own.
But at least on the bright side, the Giants can't screw up the coaching staff hires because coaching doesn't matter!
Good let him work with the next guy. I didn't say coaching doesn't matter. I said coaching won't turn a mediocre talent into an elite talent.
Please don't misrepresent my comments. Of course we want great coaches for a whole host of reasons. But turning Jones into Allen, or anything close, is a fantasy.
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
If you want to argue a point nobody is making, maybe start a different thread because you are cluttering this one with yoru strawman argument.
If you put Jones in the Daboll offense he will fail, in spades.
Allen processes the field quickly. He evades pressure effectively. When he sees an opening downfield he releases quickly and the ball gets there with uncanny zip. Allen is great at extending plays and he keeps a cool head.
Jones is terrible at all these things.
It is easy to design plays for a QB who can almost do it all.
If you want to argue a point nobody is making, maybe start a different thread because you are cluttering this one with yoru strawman argument.
Really? Because I am hearing a lot of let's get Daboll and give Jones a chance to succeed under his development.
But the only QB development success Daboll ever had was Josh Allen. That to me is akin to people saying do for Jones what you did for Josh Allen.
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NOBODY but you is suggesting that someone would turn Jones into Allen. The only person suggesting that is the thought it you.
If you want to argue a point nobody is making, maybe start a different thread because you are cluttering this one with yoru strawman argument.
Really? Because I am hearing a lot of let's get Daboll and give Jones a chance to succeed under his development.
But the only QB development success Daboll ever had was Josh Allen. That to me is akin to people saying do for Jones what you did for Josh Allen.
Making Jones a better player (if possible) is not at all the same thing as turning Jones into Josh Allen.
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In comment 15580365 Mike from Ohio said:
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NOBODY but you is suggesting that someone would turn Jones into Allen. The only person suggesting that is the thought it you.
If you want to argue a point nobody is making, maybe start a different thread because you are cluttering this one with yoru strawman argument.
Really? Because I am hearing a lot of let's get Daboll and give Jones a chance to succeed under his development.
But the only QB development success Daboll ever had was Josh Allen. That to me is akin to people saying do for Jones what you did for Josh Allen.
Making Jones a better player (if possible) is not at all the same thing as turning Jones into Josh Allen.
Well I think you have learned the wrong lesson.
Daboll got an elite talent and made a Super Bowl caliber offense around his skills.
He didn't take a mediocre QB and make him elite.
I think we should follow the actual blue print the Bills did - get an elite talent at QB.
And I don't think we should pretend that what they did was turn a mediocrity into a playoff stud.
Making Jones a better player (if possible) is not at all the same thing as turning Jones into Josh Allen.
Which makes the question, how much better can Daniel Jones be?
He doesn't have anywhere near Allen's arm. He doesn't have his agility or instincts in avoiding the rush. He's not as big. Not as fast. Not as elusive.
There isn't a single thing Daniel Jones does as well as Josh Allen as a QB. At this point, it's not important to me that Jones makes modest improvements despite his limitations.
To be honest, I believe that any improvements made by Jones will convince ownership to push for a contract extension that will ultimately hurt the Giants in the long run.
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Making Jones a better player (if possible) is not at all the same thing as turning Jones into Josh Allen.
Which makes the question, how much better can Daniel Jones be?
He doesn't have anywhere near Allen's arm. He doesn't have his agility or instincts in avoiding the rush. He's not as big. Not as fast. Not as elusive.
There isn't a single thing Daniel Jones does as well as Josh Allen as a QB. At this point, it's not important to me that Jones makes modest improvements despite his limitations.
To be honest, I believe that any improvements made by Jones will convince ownership to push for a contract extension that will ultimately hurt the Giants in the long run.
yes, I agree with you here. It's the worst case scenario. Jones improves from 23rd best QB to 18th best and they think because he is improving, therefore he is the answer. Meanwhile Dallas, Philly and WFT don't settle for such poor production. And we'll be last place losers for the next 3 years while we continue to hope for some Jones bump into greatness, that never happens.
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
The Tua comment is really strange. He’s a very limited QB. What he did in college shouldn’t matter anymore. If he’s turned into a game changer the convo changes but to say that now is kinda bullshit.
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@rydunleavy
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
The Tua comment is really strange. He’s a very limited QB. What he did in college shouldn’t matter anymore. If he’s turned into a game changer the convo changes but to say that now is kinda bullshit.
yes.. it's also disingenuous.
Everybody knew Tua was a risk coming out, mainly because of his hip, but also he was not considered a high upside traits guy. His special skill was accuracy.
Meanwhile everybody knew that Allen had exceedingly high upside, much higher than Tua. But the knock on him was that he was inaccurate.
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why did he last until the 7th pick (3rd QB off the board)?
He was seen as very raw and a developmental guy with a high ceiling. If it was just a matter of handing him the ball and letting him "figure out the NFL," don't you think he would have been the first overall pick?
Josh Allen is an amazing talent, but to pretend coaching had nothing to do with his development is silly.
Being drafted 7th overall is still pretty damn flattering.
Allen was drafted that high because he had elite, God given physical skills that gave him a chance to be a star.
He absolutely benefitted from coaching. But I think the coaching benefitted more from his talent.
He also lasted until 7th because the Touched by the Hand of God types go early...
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
Its interesting that everyone keep going back to what Daboll did before Allen, but no one talks about how he went back to college, or how he looked at college and even high school offenses to see different play design and learn how to attack defenses.
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In comment 15579979 Section331 said:
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In comment 15579880 UConn4523 said:
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No, it’s called nuance. My entire point was that Josh Allen can in with a ton of red flag and showed why his rookie year. It took time, coaching, and growing for him to be what he was.
And I bring that up because everyone seems to think there’s no QB worth taking high in this years draft because red flags exist. Well, they did with Allen too.
Yeah, I posted my response before seeing your other comments. I agree with you, the idea that Daboll benefited from Allen's play yet had nothing to do with his development is specious at best. Allen was an absolute mess coming out of Wyoming, and he credits Daboll (and QB coach Ken Dorsey), with helping him get ready. That's good enough for me.
I don't think anyone says Allen was not effectively coached up. He clearly got better year over year. But no one posting here knows who was the most responsible. Was it Dorsey? McDermott? Daboll? Someone else on that staff? Was it a wholly collective effort on the part of the staff? None of us has any idea.
I see all this defense of who people want (and I get it) but the truth is we don't really know what happened in Buffalo or what to expect here from one guy who we bring in as the head coach. And having said that I like Flores, but I certainly wouldn't hate signing Daboll. None of us really has a clue, but I'm just surprised at such strong opinions about it.
Josh Allen himself praised the work of both Daboll and Dorsey, so we have a bit of a clue.
Oh no doubt. And I'm not saying Daboll didn't have anything to do with Allen's success. It's just obviously hard to quantify. It's why I won't be upset if he's the guy. That said, I still like Flores best of all the candidates... lol
They can then use this year to upgrade the weak spots on the lines and use the season as Jones' last chance to show he has the stuff (or not).
As insurance, they can bring in a vet or draft someone with potential if the draft falls right for them. That then gives them room, as you suggest, to hunt for someone that maybe has the right tools but is from a small school or has some question marks.
I think they have to commit to the 5th year option by May. The only additional information they will have is that they may know who the backup QB will be.
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
I know you are the messenger, but Tua was almost as over-drafted as Jones. I don't really like the idea of bringing in Flores, but I think was saddled with Tua and was right - if the reports are true - in pushing for Herbert instead of Tua.
I think it's reasonable to question how much Daboll's offense helped Allen blossom. Allen just makes too many plays off-script that produce points. However, he deserves credit for the development of Allen as a QB. That is an important factor.
Brian Daboll is getting knocked because his offenses weren’t special before he was paired with #Bills Josh Allen. Like anyone could develop a top-10 picked QB. Except Brian Flores failed Tua, who was once considered a great prospect — certainly better than Allen out of college.
Failed Tua? Has this guy watched actual football games? What a ridiculous comment.
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please go educate yourself on Daboll and his play design. Daboll has helped Allen flourish and as a result Daboll is in demand as a coach. Its not one thing or the other.
If you put Jones in the Daboll offense he will fail, in spades.
Allen processes the field quickly. He evades pressure effectively. When he sees an opening downfield he releases quickly and the ball gets there with uncanny zip. Allen is great at extending plays and he keeps a cool head.
Jones is terrible at all these things.
It is easy to design plays for a QB who can almost do it all.
Have Allen play in two different offenses in three years with three different offensive coordinators, for two different head coaches, with the WORST offensive line in football and receivers who struggle to get open and hold onto the ball and THEN you'll have a fair comparison