So I have this nagging gut feeling that this all the same old story.
Based on the direct quotes and actions of the past few days it seems to me that Mara et al are still very high on Daniel and want to continue to build around him. One wonders how much this influenced the GM search. Of course, it was obvious that they were going to keep Daniel as he's on a cheap contract so he was always staying but that did not preclude the options of bringing in a better starting qb in FA or draft etc.
One wonders how much of the deliberations in the GM inemterviews was influenced by how much the new GM would be willing to build around DJ. That is a scary thought to me because i believe he isn't the long term. And I'm sure many candidates agree. tThat leads us with the new young GM. Of course he's going to agree to twhat Mara wants. This is a onece in a lifetime opportunity and Boomer seems to have heard the same thing. This also jives with the poster wprivy to the FO gossipy who omentioned that JS was partially hired as a bit of a yes man.
That leads us to the HC search. How much of the people they are looking for again follows around the notion that they are trying to ride with DJ to see what they've got.? oHwmuch of it comes down to finding a hc who they think can try to "fix" him (Daboll comes to mind here). How many candidates were excluded who wanted to move on from DJ or use him primarily as a back up? It all ) reminds one of the fake GM search but in terms of the HC.
DG still screwing us from retirement With the DJ pick.
It's not all about Jones. We need better talent in order for any quarterback to be successfully.
Giving Jones a chance to perform when surrounded by better talent is the best current option.
So, schoen is going to interview and be told he is a GM in name only and can't make any decisions on the quarterback and he is going to agree to this?
Just because they are sticking with Daniel Jones next year. Of course they are sticking with him, it makes the most logical sense any way you look at it, he is under contract at a reasonable price and the giants are cap strapped this year. This years draft doesn't offer much in top quarterbacks.
Even if the giants plans are to move on from Jones after next season, do you seriously think they would openly admit it? For what purpose?
The nagging question is he better that Jake from State Farm?
Before we start intimating to things as "fake", lets see what actions they take in free agency and draft on QBs and what they do with the 5th year option decision.
My guess is the Giant PR machine will start pumping out some early clues in a few well-placed articles to signal their thoughts around March...
I think there is almost 0 chance Fromm is back. He proved himself utterly incompetent. You can't a roster spot on a guy who can't play, especially with Jones injury history and lack of consistent availability.
I think Schoen and the new HC and the staff will evaluate Jones once they are all in place and provide Mara with an honest assessment of what they have, and the need to likely move on from him. I think they will bring in competition this year in the form of a free agent or draft pick, and recommend not picking up the 5th year option and I think those things will happen.
Short of a miracle season, I don't think there should be concern about them holding on to Jones beyond this year.
I agree and hope you are right. He was in Buffalo a long time for someone who played like he did here. Why did they keep him? Im not saying its a good idea but its possible. I hope they dump him and Glennon and bring in someone who can compete.
Correct, I wouldn't mind him being a camp arm this offseason because he does provide value off the field if Daboll is the HC. I was a big fan of Fromm back in college and I was very happy when the Giants signed him to the active roster but he clearly is not talented enough to be anything more than a PS arm.
I think Schoen and the new HC and the staff will evaluate Jones once they are all in place and provide Mara with an honest assessment of what they have, and the need to likely move on from him. I think they will bring in competition this year in the form of a free agent or draft pick, and recommend not picking up the 5th year option and I think those things will happen.
Short of a miracle season, I don't think there should be concern about them holding on to Jones beyond this year.
I completely agree. I hope we are right!
Trade Jones before his bonus is due and save $4MM, sign Trubisky/Mariota for 1x$4MM, draft to fix the other areas.
Would Trubisky or Mariota be a lateral move? Probably, but getting a draft pick back for DJ makes it the more valuable move than keeping him. Especially if he lays an egg/gets injured again in 22. Then the Giants lose him for nothing. Better to try and recoup something now
We can debate on whether there are better options than Daniel Jones available but none of them are franchise QB's especially in free agency. Mariota or Trubisky might give the Giants a slightly better chance to win but neither of them will make the Giants a playoff contender and neither should be a legitimate option beyond next season.
The Giants are better off rolling with Jones for another year and then looking for his replacement in the 2023 draft. I still expect them to add a better veteran than Glennon to compete with Jones especially if Daboll is hired because that makes signing Trubisky more likely.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Trade Jones before his bonus is due and save $4MM, sign Trubisky/Mariota for 1x$4MM, draft to fix the other areas.
Would Trubisky or Mariota be a lateral move? Probably, but getting a draft pick back for DJ makes it the more valuable move than keeping him. Especially if he lays an egg/gets injured again in 22. Then the Giants lose him for nothing. Better to try and recoup something now
In theory that's great but Jones has admitted that he likely won't be cleared to play until August so the Giants won't be able to move him until he can pass a physical.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Why don't you provide options? Let's say Mariota, Dalton, and Trubisky don't sign here then what? Want to force a draft pick on a QB that they don't love out of need?
Are we sure he doesn’t just need a couple more years and a better supporting cast?
Quote:
Trade Jones before his bonus is due and save $4MM, sign Trubisky/Mariota for 1x$4MM, draft to fix the other areas.
Would Trubisky or Mariota be a lateral move? Probably, but getting a draft pick back for DJ makes it the more valuable move than keeping him. Especially if he lays an egg/gets injured again in 22. Then the Giants lose him for nothing. Better to try and recoup something now
In theory that's great but Jones has admitted that he likely won't be cleared to play until August so the Giants won't be able to move him until he can pass a physical.
That's not what Jones said. Getting medical cleared doesn't matter until August, because there's no contact before then. Now perhaps he wouldn't pass a physical in 2 months, but I wouldn't use that quote as evidence of that
Quote:
this is potentially a horrible job if Jones stays ensconced as the starting QB.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Why don't you provide options? Let's say Mariota, Dalton, and Trubisky don't sign here then what? Want to force a draft pick on a QB that they don't love out of need?
I need to see how the market plays out before I make suggestions on existing QBs. If Carr becomes available, I would look at that as a serious stop-gap.
As for the draft, I'm all for taking a chance on a few of these prospects. I would definitely roll the dice with Pickett, Willis or Ridder. My struggle is where is the best spots to draft them.
Brilliant idea. It would cost at a minimum of 15 million to sign him and we are up against the cap.
Quote:
this is potentially a horrible job if Jones stays ensconced as the starting QB.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Why don't you provide options? Let's say Mariota, Dalton, and Trubisky don't sign here then what? Want to force a draft pick on a QB that they don't love out of need?
Why are those better options? None of those guys are the long term answer. We are likely going to suck next year anyway. Why take up valuable cap space on guys who are not the answer and not going to move the needle for us next season or beyond. Roll the dice with DJ. If his play was a function of poor personnel around him and he improves, great. We hit the lottery. If he doesn't, then we are really no worse off than if we had signed Trubisky, Dalton, et. al.
+1
The fans here just dont get that. They expect Mara and Schoen to come out and say DJ sucks and we need to start our QB search. That is exactly what would make many people here happy.
Say it! Just say it !
Why do the Giants have to show their hand right now? Maybe they want to drive the price up on a possible Draft day trade with teams thinking they are not going after a QB.
Maybe the Giants want a QB in the draft and dont want to have to jump up to get him.
Cutting DJ saves $200K, he is still on the Books for over $8mil and we have very little cap space so I think he is the vet guy and maybe a draft pick to round things out. Spending an additional $5-$10 Mil on a replacement is not smart when you are going to get a similar player to what you have.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Just as Jones has not earned the right to be the unquestioned starter, neither have Trubisky or Mariotta.
I am more than fine with Jones not starting for us, but someone needs to beat him out for the job, not be handed the role because his name is not Daniel Jones.
The reality is somewhere in the middle. We can afford a $15 million QB if we want, they’ll just be painful cuts and step backs in other areas.
Quote:
In comment 15579998 bw in dc said:
Quote:
this is potentially a horrible job if Jones stays ensconced as the starting QB.
The best answer it to cut Jones before free agency and start to evaluate all options.
Why don't you provide options? Let's say Mariota, Dalton, and Trubisky don't sign here then what? Want to force a draft pick on a QB that they don't love out of need?
Why are those better options? None of those guys are the long term answer. We are likely going to suck next year anyway. Why take up valuable cap space on guys who are not the answer and not going to move the needle for us next season or beyond. Roll the dice with DJ. If his play was a function of poor personnel around him and he improves, great. We hit the lottery. If he doesn't, then we are really no worse off than if we had signed Trubisky, Dalton, et. al.
But they would be worse off because they'd have lost the chance to get anything back for DJ. Draft picks are gold, especially for the Giants. I also wouldn't discount the possibility of other players (mainly WRs) becoming frustrated with another season of DJ. We saw that happen with OBJ and Eli. Their stats, and thus their future contracts or current incentives, rely on the QB. MM or MT offer the change for something different, especially MT if Daboll gets the HC gig
But what if better coaching has the Giants at 7 wins and a better QB would have had them at 8 or 9 and a playoff spot?
people are obsessed with the "build around him" line losing their minds. I 'read' that as build the team, specifically build the offense.
IF the giants draft someone, thats idfferent, then you can cut jones but for now, he is under contract and the giants and mainly schoen will NOT say he sucks and we are benching him. They are going to evaluate everything and not play their hand. For all we know, they are looking hard at willis early on and thats that, jones will compete for starting spot with willis and if jones loses out after a FAIR evaluation, then we dont pick up option and keep it moving or we extend him at backup rate.
I am not sure why people here STILL after YEARS of fandom cannot truly understand that execs in this business dont always have the emotional reaction. You guys want jones cut as some sort of agenda and cannot look at this from a neutral standpoint as schoen will.
Quote:
So you build around him. What exactly does that mean? An improved offensive line? Isn't that a good thing?
people are obsessed with the "build around him" line losing their minds. I 'read' that as build the team, specifically build the offense.
Yeah that term is getting a lot of odd attention. They aren't selecting on or passing on certain linemen or skill players because Jones is the QB. The whole offense needs a rebuild regardless of who is under center.
Quote:
start at QB than Jones, but even I wouldn't endorse spending $15 M on a mediocre QB. Jimmy G is better than Jones, but he is not good. If those were the options I'd suffer through watching Mr. Robot for another year until we take a crack at getting a real QB.
But what if better coaching has the Giants at 7 wins and a better QB would have had them at 8 or 9 and a playoff spot?
I hear you and I do think there's a chance we could be battling for the playoffs. I just think the playoffs are so watered down now that there are some no-hope teams getting in (Eagles, Steelers). Being the 2021 Eagles could be slightly fun, but they were not good. It wasn't a case where "anybody could make a run". They had no chance. Realistically, that's what we'd be in this scenario.
And I'm not confident that the Giants are a mature enough organization to properly self-evaluate after a run like that. It's not a bad thing and I'm not rooting against it. It's just not that much of a positive to move the needle for me.
Now that opinion is ok?
Per Spotrac: Impact to 49ers
PRE-6/1 RELEASE
2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000
2022 Cap Savings: $25,505,870
PRE-6/1 TRADE
2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000
2022 Cap Savings: $25,505,870
POST-6/1 RELEASE
2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000
2023 Dead Cap: $0
2022 Cap Savings: $25,505,870
POST-6/1 TRADE
2022 Dead Cap: $1,400,000
2023 Dead Cap: $0
Now that opinion is ok?
Are you talking to me? I didn't give a shit if we made the playoffs in 2020. That division and this team was a joke.
The reality is somewhere in the middle. We can afford a $15 million QB if we want, they’ll just be painful cuts and step backs in other areas.
Painful cuts and setbacks??
Would suggest we can risk it with the quality as-is of this roster...