Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
Sources: The #Giants are working to hire #Bills OC Brian Daboll as their new head coach. The two sides will attempt to do a deal and reunite him with old friend and new NYG GM Joe Schoen.
Ralph Vacchiano
✔
@RVacchianoSNY
I heard from an NFL source that the Dolphins do not expect Brian Daboll to still be available when they begin their second interviews.
So this makes sense. It looks like the favorite at the start will be the favorite at the finish ...
a head coach starts somewhere so we wouldn't know if a head coach is good or not unless a team gives him the chance. Guys like McVay, Taylor, Shanahan, Lefleur, Siriani are all first time coaches and have had success so this fear fans have is just Judge paranoia to me.
Get his way? I have to feel this is a good sign for the franchise. I wanted Flores over Daboll but I can be quite happy with this. Not a "my way or all is lost" kind of guy.
RE: People saying a first time head coach is a bad thing...
a head coach starts somewhere so we wouldn't know if a head coach is good or not unless a team gives him the chance. Guys like McVay, Taylor, Shanahan, Lefleur, Siriani are all first time coaches and have had success so this fear fans have is just Judge paranoia to me.
Judge, McAdoo, Handley for some. I get the nervousness about a first time HC. But you can't just rule out ever hiring a first timer because the last three sucked.
Letting a fresh pair of eyes make the decision is the right move.
over a defensive guy. I'd rather an offensive head coach who calls his own plays. If we had a defensive guy as head coach and we hired some offensive guru as OC, that OC will get scooped up at the first sign of any Giants offensive success, similar to the Daboll right now. Rather keep the guy running the offense who has less chance to get scooped up by other teams. Rather have a Kyle Shanahan as a head coach then a Dan Quinn who loses Shanahan, then proceeds to see their offense decline.
over a defensive guy. I'd rather an offensive head coach who calls his own plays. If we had a defensive guy as head coach and we hired some offensive guru as OC, that OC will get scooped up at the first sign of any Giants offensive success, similar to the Daboll right now. Rather keep the guy running the offense who has less chance to get scooped up by other teams. Rather have a Kyle Shanahan as a head coach then a Dan Quinn who loses Shanahan, then proceeds to see their offense decline.
Schoen kind if let a clue slip when he used the word "continuity".
While he will have growing pains, Flores will have pains with solving our offense woes. Meanwhile, Daboll already has methods in place. Don't want turnover amongst coaches like Judge or Flores did.
He and Schoen have a good working relationship, that’s one less variable to worry about. He’s the guy Schoen wanted, so unlike Gettleman and Shurmur, you can hold Schoen accountable for Dabolls performance. The offense is broken, so it makes sense to bring in an offensive guy, that’s another variable you don’t have to worry about. I think Flores is a good coach but for this team with this gm it just makes sense to pair him with his guy.
I've read around here mention of two in person interviews from candidates outside of the organization being required.
If so, was this a real interview process? Other than Patrick Graham, we did not interview anyone aside from Daboll and the two required minority candidates in Frazier and Flores...
I've read around here mention of two in person interviews from candidates outside of the organization being required.
If so, was this a real interview process? Other than Patrick Graham, we did not interview anyone aside from Daboll and the two required minority candidates in Frazier and Flores...
Ralph Vacchiano
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@RVacchianoSNY
The Giants have indeed offered their head coaching job to Bills OC Brian Daboll, according to a source. As @RapSheet said, they're working on a deal. Could be finalized soon. But he's their guy.
For years to have a GM and HC that are on the same timeline, coordinated and working together. Well, we go it!
Lets just hope BBI was right this whole time.
I think the benefit of this is the floor not the ceiling. If it isn’t working out it makes things easier to hold both accountable at the same time so you don’t make the same mistake you did with Gettleman/Judge.
Ralph Vacchiano
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@RVacchianoSNY
There was never much doubt about this from the start. Even though John Mara didn't want a "package deal" everyone knew that new Giants GM Joe Schoen wanted Brian Daboll as his coach.
And Daboll wanted the Giants. He had interest in Miami, but preferred New York, per a source.
Paul Schwartz
✔
@NYPost_Schwartz
Confirmed: The Giants will hire Brian Daboll as their new head coach.
They spoke of "collaboration'' and new GM said he and the new coach must be in "lockstep.''
Daboll is that guy.
Will be interesting to see how his staff rounds out
Ralph Vacchiano
✔
@RVacchianoSNY
There was never much doubt about this from the start. Even though John Mara didn't want a "package deal" everyone knew that new Giants GM Joe Schoen wanted Brian Daboll as his coach.
And Daboll wanted the Giants. He had interest in Miami, but preferred New York, per a source.
I feel bad for the guys who got phony interviews. But the GM does deserve to pick his guy and go down swinging with his people (unlike the Garrett fiasco).
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I thought Flores did an decent job with Miami but I never thought he was anything great. The rumors of his wanting it his way and lack of communication I did believe and wanted no part of that here. The Giants needed an offensive minded HC that would have a good relationship with GM.
Daboll being a first time HC does not worry me. Every good coach at some point was a first time head coach. I do feel that he will be able to get the best out of Jones. Jones doesnt have the same arm strength as Allen but he has good size, can move with his feet and put it where it needs to be. Hopefully he won’t have to think as much and can just go out and play ball. I felt like he did more of that his rookie year then the past 2 in Garret’s offense.
Now Daboll needs to hire some coaches with NFL experience. The OC and DC will be important. I also hope Shoen hires an assistant GM as well.
And start being informed by leaguewide best practices.
The NFL is about scouting points through the passing game. Daboll hopefully continues to apply the same offensive style in NY that he did in Buffalo: play action, pre-snap motion, early down aggressiveness, etc.
Should make for a better partnership in talent eval and draft strategy/needs, which has been a massive problem for us and a reason why the roster is where it is.
It’s a good outcome despite all the moaning about things that never happened. I’d be nice to get a short break from the conspiracy rabbling, at least until DJ is named starting QB, lol.
But Schoen should be allow to sink or swim with his guy. Let's hope he's up to the job. Looking forward to the coordinator choices and possible asst. GM? Maybe Chris in that role :)
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
People hated Coughlin too.
Mara's comments about the Giants failing Daniel Jones the last few
John Mara needs to step back and let Schoen make the appropriate changes now in the personnel and scouting depts.
I hope Daboll can get Dorsey as his OC and Martindale as his DC.
For the first time in a long time I feel excited about the direction of the Giants.
Glad coach has been selected and our GM got the guy HE wanted
And start being informed by leaguewide best practices.
The NFL is about scouting points through the passing game. Daboll hopefully continues to apply the same offensive style in NY that he did in Buffalo: play action, pre-snap motion, early down aggressiveness, etc.
A best practice would be to get a QB of Allen’s quality.
Not sure what else moves the needle in this league.
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
People hated Coughlin too.
Bullshit. Some of the players did because he was hard on them but I’ve never heard anything of the sort in regards to his coaching staff or the front office.
""Thank you to Joe Schoen for believing in me and to John Mara and Steve Tisch and their families for entrusting me with this position. My immediate goal is to assemble a coaching staff – a strong staff that emphasizes teaching and collaboration and making sure our players are put in the position to be their best and, ultimately, to win games. "
Time to press forward. I hope he does a better job with the running game. Big thing for HC’s is taking a meaningful step year 1 to 2. For now we need to hear great news on the DC and OL coach.
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
Yes, Im basing my argument on just the Giants. Because the Maras are still the ones picking the coach. And we all know Parcells never would have been picked if Rozelle did not foist George Young on the Maras. So really TC is the only winner they have ever picked.
There was a lot to like about Flores too. I would have been OK with him too. I wonder if he's a lock to get hired as a HC. If not, would love to see him as the Giants' DC. But that's probably a pipe dream.
RE: Agreeableness isn't an exact indicator of being a successful coach is
the point. Give me the guy who wins games. Who cares how nice he is?
Having terrible relationships with both the coaching staff and the front office is your idea of “agreeableness”? Haha, yeah ok. That’s just not sustainable if there is any hope for success. You act like he won 3 Super Bowls. He did a decent job but ended up getting shit canned because nobody could get along with him. How the hell are you supposed win consistently in that kind of environment?
Anyone who wanted Flores needs to read the Paul Schwartz article in Professor Falken post. Being a coach is about treating people fairly. Flores gets an F- for the way he treated coach Flaherty.
and think we're going to regret this. Hope that I'm very wrong. (I do hope Flores finds immense success elsewhere, but obviously now I want Daboll to become the best coach ever.)
Like Schoen, 1st interviewed, 1st hired. Even Bob Papa was blowing smoke this am with Weis. Weis asked him who ?, and he hesitated a bit and said Daboll to Miami, so its Flores. Didn’t believe him for a second!
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Actually, the only Head Coaching experience Parcells had before taking the reigns for the Giants was one year at the Air Force Academy, but none at the NFL level
3 of the 4 coaches coaching this weekend are on their first head coach jobs after being hired as "hot" offensive coordinators. The fourth (Andy Reid) never even had the offensive coordinator title before being hired as Philly's head coach.
It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
3 of the 4 coaches coaching this weekend are on their first head coach jobs after being hired as "hot" offensive coordinators. The fourth (Andy Reid) never even had the offensive coordinator title before being hired as Philly's head coach.
Good coaches have to start somewhere.
The chances of Daboll being the next Sean McVay are infinitesimal. Shanahan had a much better resume and Zac Taylor sucked before Joe Burrow fell in his lap.
The player personnel in this situation will be everything.
Especially since he is offensive minded..And that means to me he's going to draft 2 Hog Mollies for the
O LINE,out of the 1st 3 picks in the draft..And give is new DC his edge guy..And it wouldn't surprise me that the 3rd round pick is a WR who can stay hopefully healthy all season..
It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Ah, we found our conspiracy theory. That was an obvious one…
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
I wanted Flores but am all in on Schoen. I think he’s a smart hire
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
how it's going to work out but love that we have a GM-Coach who know and respect each other from a previous gig. I think we are on the right track after several years of being lost.
It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
What QB would you use? Remember you have no money, and you need your draft picks to rebuild the roster. Plus Jones has little value right now.
@TomRock_Newsday
Steve Tisch: "It was obvious Brian has spent his career preparing for this moment. He is creative, thoughtful, determined. Joe & Brian are the perfect complement to each other. We will do everything we can to support their process as they build toward '22 season and after that."
I really hope it does and will support the new team. But something inside says Mara wanted this result from the beginning and I get a sick feeling when I think of his hands on any decision.
I think we did well with the hire of Schoen and Daboll. Of course no one can be sure until we start seeing some positive results.
Flores will need to get as a DC and establish he can work with people. The GM and HC need to be aligned and that has been a problem with the Giants going back to Reese.
Don’t feel too crazy about it either way. The whole situation with Judge made me realize I shouldn’t fall in love with quotes and anecdotes and other BS before I see the coaches actual performance.
We’ll see how he does, I do have concerns about how much of his success was due to Allen’s massive talent but maybe he was a big reason for Allen becoming what he is now. Who knows.
I’m excited about the direction of the franchise. Hopefully we are able to get back on track and start winning again.
It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Yes, I’m guessing it’s likely the owners of a billion dollar franchise hired their new GM and HC based on whether they’d keep one player who will be a free agent next year if they don’t pick up his option, because — loyalty?
I am sure everyone wants Daniel Jones to succeed. That makes things a lot easier. But if he’s not the guy, the new GM is tasked with finding the guy. That’s his job. But no one is tasked with keeping Jones at cost to the team. Come on.
hope i'm wrong but this hire feels a lot like McAdoo and Shurmur. in a year where there were numerous candidates available who had successes as head coaches before it's a letdown to be playing coordinator roulette again.
hope i'm wrong but this hire feels a lot like McAdoo and Shurmur. in a year where there were numerous candidates available who had successes as head coaches before it's a letdown to be playing coordinator roulette again.
Fangio would make me a feel a lot better.
Here's one thing to consider. It wasn't John Mara who picked him. Mara picked the last two. I'd be in line with your thinking if it was the same guy making the choice.
to Schoen and Daboll. I hope that they are able to make this team competitive and fun to watch again. Next season is going to be rough, but hoping for a functioning offense, even if it'll take a bit to build it up.
Schoen and Daboll were part of a team that just transformed a bottom rung franchise. Perfect experience for them to do the same here.
I also think Daboll’s resume is just so much stronger than McAdoo and Judge, and better than Shurmur given his unsuccessful Cleveland stint. He’s just a much stronger candidate.
After 35 years in Rochester, I was pulling for the Bills*. But even during the game I felt the consolation prize was getting Daboll earlier if he was selected HC.
*Stayed faithful to the NYG as my #1 team; WHAM used to carry Giant games and I'd listen in the UofR computer lab while punching IBM cards on Sundays, the only available time from the University - and I had a full time day job to boot.
hope i'm wrong but this hire feels a lot like McAdoo and Shurmur. in a year where there were numerous candidates available who had successes as head coaches before it's a letdown to be playing coordinator roulette again.
Fangio would make me a feel a lot better.
Here's one thing to consider. It wasn't John Mara who picked him. Mara picked the last two. I'd be in line with your thinking if it was the same guy making the choice.
John Mara doesn't pick the 8 or 9 in every 10 new coordinators who fail as HCs in other organizations.
Schoen and Daboll, not unlike Judge, may be a very bright guys who simply don't know what they don't know because they have never done it.
I know this is unorthodox with respect to "the right way", but i believe there's a good reason coaches make 2-3x what GM's make. they are more important and harder to find. I'd have hired 1 of the experienced head coaches (likely Harbough or Flores) and let them pick a GM they can work with. It's a lot easier to find people who can do a good job scouting players than head coaches who can win football games. That's basically what Oakland and KC did with Gruden and Reid. Ron Rivera and Pete Carroll also got hired with say over the GM. There aren't too many examples because there are rarely experienced head coaches available so most of the time that's not an option but since it was this time I think i'd have preferred going that route after the other didnt work 3x in a row.
i hope we got the next mcvay or staley but that's a bet with long odds. maybe the law of averages finally goes in our favor.
If nothing else, Daboll is VASTLY more experienced
Andy Reid was a rookie Head Coach who had never done anything but coach offensive line.
McVay was named a head coach at 30 years old which was wildly unprecedented. Never a head coach.
McDermott for Buffalo was a rookie head coach
Sean Payton, rookie head coach.
Mike Tomlin, rookie head coach.
Kyle Shanahan, rookie head coach
Mike Vrabel, rookie head coach
None of these men had ever been a head coach before at any level.
to put in perspective..only a few weeks ago most of us were resigned to the fact that the Giants would be going into next season with Judge/Abrahams as the HC/GM combo..
aspect but that can be a crapshoot. Many win games but they shrivel come playoff.
I think the biggest problem has been talent for a decade. In this case the GM was the more important role to upgrade processes and start drafting better. Even if Daboll does not work out you can correct things easier if JS does his job imv. All our recent coaches and TC’s were all impacted by the roster especially the OL.
My only worry is I don’t want to be pass happy and I want a really good defense. Since I’ve been a fan the NFC East had been won by the most physical team and that wins in the playoffs as well.
Andy Reid was a rookie Head Coach who had never done anything but coach offensive line.
McVay was named a head coach at 30 years old which was wildly unprecedented. Never a head coach.
McDermott for Buffalo was a rookie head coach
Sean Payton, rookie head coach.
Mike Tomlin, rookie head coach.
Kyle Shanahan, rookie head coach
Mike Vrabel, rookie head coach
None of these men had ever been a head coach before at any level.
Everyone is a rookie at some point. Daboll is slightly more experienced than Judge but from the same background. Shurmur was more experienced than both. McAdoo a hybrid of all 3. none are outliers to the failure rate of NFL coordinators.
Bottomline is this time unlike most other years they had several to choose from who weren't rookies. Jim Harbough has a near .700 winning% in the NFL and was rumored to be interested in the job. Flores has just 5 less wins than Buffalo (whose HC was also a defensive coach by expertise) the last 2 years with Tua/Fitz/Brissett not Josh Allen. Pederson won a SB with Nick Foles. How thrilled would we be to get to see a team get to another SB even if they choke it away like Quinn did?
I really do hope Daboll is the next Shanahan/McVay but there was a higher % play available.
Don’t feel too crazy about it either way. The whole situation with Judge made me realize I shouldn’t fall in love with quotes and anecdotes and other BS before I see the coaches actual performance.
We’ll see how he does, I do have concerns about how much of his success was due to Allen’s massive talent but maybe he was a big reason for Allen becoming what he is now. Who knows.
I’m excited about the direction of the franchise. Hopefully we are able to get back on track and start winning again.
I'm with you.
The last 3 coaches talked the Packers philosophy (of a decade ago) of developing from within, using the PS as an integral part of that system, high character etc in a learning/teaching environment. I even liked JJ's the search for teachers as coaches. I bought it all; hook, line and sinker.
I won't doubt Brian, but I will wait a while afore I jump on the band wagon.
Most of the time, I agree it’s the HC, but the Giants talent base is so depleted, I’d argue this is an exception and Schoen is the key hire.
where was the Jets talent base pre-Parcells?
or I suppose more relevant to this search, the Dolphins in 2019 after trading Tunsil/Fitzpatrick?
or the Niners pre-harbough when they hadn't had a winning season in a decade?
head coaches are the most important person in every nfl org.
After 35 years in Rochester, I was pulling for the Bills*. But even during the game I felt the consolation prize was getting Daboll earlier if he was selected HC.
*Stayed faithful to the NYG as my #1 team; WHAM used to carry Giant games and I'd listen in the UofR computer lab while punching IBM cards on Sundays, the only available time from the University - and I had a full time day job to boot.
are you a U of R alum? So is our new coach. Meliora, bitches!
An experienced head coach doesn’t guarantee anything.
At least we know we’ll have a modern offense.
there are no guarantees you will win if you walk into a casino but there are games you can play that will give you better odds of winning than others. a poker player walking into poker room where they've won money before is better odds than someone walking up to a game they've never played before, even if it's similar to one they have.
and there was no HC available anywhere close to him. If Mara had the opportunity to hire BB or BP type, I think he says “Please fix the franchise.” Then he asks, “Is it ok if I watch practice?” Let’s get some stability in the FO and address the drafting.
Well, Miami just fired Flores despite his very credible coaching, so maybe it would have been better for them to hire the right GM - who would have drafted Herbert.
If our new GM fails to upgrade the Giants talent, almost every coach will fail here. But the reverse? If Daboll fails but Schoen is starting to build a talented team, in 2025 or 2026 when they would to find a new coach, the team would be poised for excellence and the coaching vacancy would be very desirable.
So most of the time, I agree with you, but this is an exception.
An experienced head coach doesn’t guarantee anything.
At least we know we’ll have a modern offense.
there are no guarantees you will win if you walk into a casino but there are games you can play that will give you better odds of winning than others. a poker player walking into poker room where they've won money before is better odds than someone walking up to a game they've never played before, even if it's similar to one they have.
Is Harbaugh leaving a cushy job at Michigan to rebuild the Giants? Besides Flores who is still pretty inexperienced, what other experienced head coach did you want?
Daboll is a very experienced coordinator and what’s more
aside from him I'd have talked to Flores, Quinn, and Pederson.
All 4 of those guys individually have more winning seasons than the Giants org since the last SB, some in only a handful of seasons coached in that specific period of time.
I'm not anti-Daboll but I find it hard to believe independent of a relationship with Schoen he'd have beat out all 4 despite their edge in experience.
Well, Miami just fired Flores despite his very credible coaching, so maybe it would have been better for them to hire the right GM - who would have drafted Herbert.
If our new GM fails to upgrade the Giants talent, almost every coach will fail here. But the reverse? If Daboll fails but Schoen is starting to build a talented team, in 2025 or 2026 when they would to find a new coach, the team would be poised for excellence and the coaching vacancy would be very desirable.
So most of the time, I agree with you, but this is an exception.
Grier was the one who hired flores and up until the moment flores got fired was thought to be his best achievement.
sorry but with certain team sports - the NFL and NHL - we've seen it too many times where the same rosters produce very different outcomes one season to the next with different coaching. The Rangers and Islanders are both recent examples. The Jets with Parcells. The Raiders went through how many coaches in between Gruden and almost all of them finished last. The Bucs had been in last place 7 of 8 years before Arians - Jason Licht as GM almost the entire time. And even before Brady got there Arians made them better right away. Without Arians they probably don't get Brady.
Harbough's rumored interest was the unicorn in this situation, and though I can acknowledge he may not be the right personality for every situation there were enough others with experience I'd have stayed in that aisle.
Having a rookie GM and HC makes me nervous. I would have much rather have an experienced duo but whatever. This particular job is going to be super tough. We are in cap hell and don't have much talent. Both lines need to be rebuilt and we will need a new QB as I don't think Jones is it (style of play, durability, overall skillset). This will take 3 seasons at least. Best of luck to Daboll. He'll need it.
Joe Judge coached Special teams for 4 years
WR coach for 1 year.
Daboll paid his dues.
4 years WR coach
2 years QB coach
8 years Offensive Coordinator
3 years TE coach
another 1 year running offense in college (and a great one).
But just as much as the years is the exposure to multiple head coaches, styles and methods.
It's not close.
Again, it could fail as much as any other coach, but definitely not because Daboll is a wannabe Belichick robot or a guy who's never been in the trenches. He's done a lot of coaching.
It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Holy cow, talk about stubborn. Mara has done everything many said he would not do. Now the narrative is they must have agreed to keep Jones! Hahaha, that s unbelievable, even for you.
But feels a lot like Handley, McAdoo and Judge learning how to be an NFL head coach for the first time in this little town they call New York. The Giants need a leader of men. They don't need smartest guy in the room gurus. Anybody can coach Josh Allen and be successful. If this thinking is based on the preordained notion that Daniel Jones just needs a good coach to be successful, then we are at least three years away from rock bottom. Good stuff. Keep truckin'. Yay.
What was that definition of insanity again? I thought it had something to do with making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results. But now I can clearly see that I have been mistaken. It's simply being a Giants fan.
Nuff said. Hope I'm wrong. Fairly certain I'm not.
But feels a lot like Handley, McAdoo and Judge learning how to be an NFL head coach for the first time in this little town they call New York. The Giants need a leader of men. They don't need smartest guy in the room gurus. Anybody can coach Josh Allen and be successful. If this thinking is based on the preordained notion that Daniel Jones just needs a good coach to be successful, then we are at least three years away from rock bottom. Good stuff. Keep truckin'. Yay.
What was that definition of insanity again? I thought it had something to do with making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results. But now I can clearly see that I have been mistaken. It's simply being a Giants fan.
Nuff said. Hope I'm wrong. Fairly certain I'm not.
Judge was 38 when hired and it was the 5 seasons as a coordinator in NE that got him hired.
Daboll is 46 with 8 seasons as a coordinator but they were scatter shot until the last 4 in Buffalo which are what got him hired.
You're right that the 8 years Daboll has on Judge were years spent as an NFL assistant which are relevant, and perhaps being an offensive coordinator is also better preparation than Special Teams.
Like I said though Daboll is in some ways a hybrid of the last 3 coaches they've hired. He has the recent offensive achievement shurmur had, but with less stench of loser. He has the NE/Bama pedigree Judge had, with a little more relevant experience. And a little bit of the worry mcadoo came with of possibly having been swept up in the success of a great QB.
hey look, if he can combine the good qualities judge had with the offensive capability shurmur showed being able to get more out of less offensively then maybe they finally got it right. my point isn't anti daboll, it's pro experience since this was a rare offseason with a few experienced options and this job appeared to be the most coveted.
the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
HQ?
I don't know. I'm going to blame it on the cellphone and auto correct....
""Thank you to Joe Schoen for believing in me and to John Mara and Steve Tisch and their families for entrusting me with this position. My immediate goal is to assemble a coaching staff – a strong staff that emphasizes teaching and collaboration and making sure our players are put in the position to be their best and, ultimately, to win games. "
are usually retreads for a reason. For every Belichick, or Pete Carrol, who learned from their mistakes the first time around, there's some who didn't.
For every unsuccessful rookie HC, there's some who succeeded.
Stop getting hung up on one way or another. What's important is the individual.
our next conspiracy theory? Mara is going to make Daboll go on a diet? Mara won’t let him change the menu in the cafeteria?
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
our next conspiracy theory? Mara is going to make Daboll go on a diet? Mara won’t let him change the menu in the cafeteria?
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
Already have noticed one since the Daboll hiring. Mara wanted Daboll because Daboll "loves Jones", which keeps Jones in place. Mara was going to initially force the Flores hire because of the BC connection. Once told that Daboll "loves Jones", Mara shifted to a force hire of Daboll.
as others have said, this doesn't move the needle for me!
rookie GM - rookie HC - new OC - trash QB - washed RB - questionable WR corp
looks like we'll be sub 500 for the next 3-5 years
UNLESS....Deshaun Watson admits he was addicted to sex, gets some counseling and does a presser on how he wants to redefine his life...and we make the trade
It's possible Flores was lobbying for Deshaun Watson
as others have said, this doesn't move the needle for me!
rookie GM - rookie HC - new OC - trash QB - washed RB - questionable WR corp
looks like we'll be sub 500 for the next 3-5 years
UNLESS....Deshaun Watson admits he was addicted to sex, gets some counseling and does a presser on how he wants to redefine his life...and we make the trade
This post is not a slam. Just wondering what your expectations are/were for the hiring instead of Daboll?
1-- You speak of sub .500 so if they stay around .500 but accomplish nothing but mediocrity, then that is okay? SO my guess is you want to see a build-up as a contender, right? Other than seeing team built to be a contender, nothing else really moves the needle, right?
2--- What were you expecting in 2022 for the Giants season? You think magically they were going to turn into a great contender?
3--- You don't want Jones-- okay. So what trade is going to make you a contender in 2022 or 2023?
4--- You are saying 3-5 years. Well what about year 3? You think we’re going to be contender in 3 years?
5—Suppose we draft one of the top QB’s available in 2023? You think we would be still headed in the wrong direction?
6-- What were you expecting for their team to be a good football team in 2 years or less?
Cam Marino accurately predicted Brian Daboll would be named the head coach of the Giants. Some Giant fans unfairly criticized him.
I have a friend who speaks to an NFL scout weekly. Joe Schoen was going to name Brian Daboll as the head coach. The Giants were being politically correct with Brian Flores.
Last year, many Giant fans castigated Micah Parsons and said he would be a bust. They were prescient. Scouts noted that Parsons and Odafe Oweh had changed the way edge-rushers are drafted. The NFL wants athletes with great speed and quickness. College production is less important.
our next conspiracy theory? Mara is going to make Daboll go on a diet? Mara won’t let him change the menu in the cafeteria?
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
How many of these things would have happened if Judge hadn't totally melted down over the course of two weeks and Tisch didn't put his foot down?
I don't know. Half measures could have popped up anywhere
Judge doesn't have that 11 minute rambling answer in that postgame presser after Bears/QB sneaks vs. WFT...he's still the HC. Even after JJ was fired, Mara was singing his praises somewhat, in that he thought Judge could be a good HC down the road.
@RapSheet
Sources: The #Giants are working to hire #Bills OC Brian Daboll as their new head coach. The two sides will attempt to do a deal and reunite him with old friend and new NYG GM Joe Schoen.
GO!!!!!!!!!
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@RVacchianoSNY
I heard from an NFL source that the Dolphins do not expect Brian Daboll to still be available when they begin their second interviews.
So this makes sense. It looks like the favorite at the start will be the favorite at the finish ...
According to reports, this is true. And if true, the right move. Good shit, John
Judge, McAdoo, Handley for some. I get the nervousness about a first time HC. But you can't just rule out ever hiring a first timer because the last three sucked.
Letting a fresh pair of eyes make the decision is the right move.
I’m really hoping he can land Dorsey and one of Wink, Fangio or Zimmer.
We’ve learned a couple times now how critical it is to get your staff right, specifically the coordinators.
Good luck Daboll! Hoping you’re here 10 years from now.
@AdamSchefter
Giants hiring former Bills’ OC Brian Daboll as their next head coach, per sources.
Schoen kind if let a clue slip when he used the word "continuity".
“Candidates are being informed that Brian Daboll is the Giants' next head coach, sources confirm, as @RapSheet reported.
An 11th-hour turn. Some in Giants brass, and many others, believed early in week it was Daboll & Dolphins.
Brian Flores had a chance, but it's Daboll to NYG”
Link - ( New Window )
Wink for DC
I've read around here mention of two in person interviews from candidates outside of the organization being required.
If so, was this a real interview process? Other than Patrick Graham, we did not interview anyone aside from Daboll and the two required minority candidates in Frazier and Flores...
“Candidates are being informed that Brian Daboll is the Giants' next head coach, sources confirm, as @RapSheet reported.
An 11th-hour turn. Some in Giants brass, and many others, believed early in week it was Daboll & Dolphins.
Brian Flores had a chance, but it's Daboll to NYG” Link - ( New Window )
He's a clown, he's the only one to report he was close to going to Miami, now he's trying to walk back his tweet from yesterday.
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Pat Leonard Tweet
“Candidates are being informed that Brian Daboll is the Giants' next head coach, sources confirm, as @RapSheet reported.
An 11th-hour turn. Some in Giants brass, and many others, believed early in week it was Daboll & Dolphins.
Brian Flores had a chance, but it's Daboll to NYG” Link - ( New Window )
He's a clown, he's the only one to report he was close to going to Miami, now he's trying to walk back his tweet from yesterday.
Pat Leonard is the NYG (of the moment) of journalism
Lets just hope BBI was right this whole time.
I've read around here mention of two in person interviews from candidates outside of the organization being required.
If so, was this a real interview process? Other than Patrick Graham, we did not interview anyone aside from Daboll and the two required minority candidates in Frazier and Flores...
Ugh
I forgot about the Dallas DC....
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@RVacchianoSNY
The Giants have indeed offered their head coaching job to Bills OC Brian Daboll, according to a source. As @RapSheet said, they're working on a deal. Could be finalized soon. But he's their guy.
Lets just hope BBI was right this whole time.
I think the benefit of this is the floor not the ceiling. If it isn’t working out it makes things easier to hold both accountable at the same time so you don’t make the same mistake you did with Gettleman/Judge.
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@RVacchianoSNY
There was never much doubt about this from the start. Even though John Mara didn't want a "package deal" everyone knew that new Giants GM Joe Schoen wanted Brian Daboll as his coach.
And Daboll wanted the Giants. He had interest in Miami, but preferred New York, per a source.
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@NYPost_Schwartz
Confirmed: The Giants will hire Brian Daboll as their new head coach.
They spoke of "collaboration'' and new GM said he and the new coach must be in "lockstep.''
Daboll is that guy.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
✔
@RVacchianoSNY
There was never much doubt about this from the start. Even though John Mara didn't want a "package deal" everyone knew that new Giants GM Joe Schoen wanted Brian Daboll as his coach.
And Daboll wanted the Giants. He had interest in Miami, but preferred New York, per a source.
I feel bad for the guys who got phony interviews. But the GM does deserve to pick his guy and go down swinging with his people (unlike the Garrett fiasco).
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
Daboll being a first time HC does not worry me. Every good coach at some point was a first time head coach. I do feel that he will be able to get the best out of Jones. Jones doesnt have the same arm strength as Allen but he has good size, can move with his feet and put it where it needs to be. Hopefully he won’t have to think as much and can just go out and play ball. I felt like he did more of that his rookie year then the past 2 in Garret’s offense.
Now Daboll needs to hire some coaches with NFL experience. The OC and DC will be important. I also hope Shoen hires an assistant GM as well.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Shurmur was a HC with the Browns.
You've been on a troll track the past few weeks. Is this your new identity?
The NFL is about scouting points through the passing game. Daboll hopefully continues to apply the same offensive style in NY that he did in Buffalo: play action, pre-snap motion, early down aggressiveness, etc.
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You've been on a troll track the past few weeks. Is this your new identity?
Just because I disagreed with you, I'm a troll now? Fuck off.
Not unless he goes on 11 minute rants and QB sneaks inside his own 20
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Fassell made a super bowl. Coughlin and Parcells are not the only coaches in 50 years to have success.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
I think Fassel was also a pretty successful Giant HC.
At least Daboll: (1) is, seemingly, the choice of Schoen and (2) offense is his specialty. Those are two plusses.
I really can't wait to hear what Daboll says about Jones.
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
Quote:
Can you grasp that?
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
People hated Coughlin too.
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@Giants
Got our guy.
I hope Daboll can get Dorsey as his OC and Martindale as his DC.
For the first time in a long time I feel excited about the direction of the Giants.
The NFL is about scouting points through the passing game. Daboll hopefully continues to apply the same offensive style in NY that he did in Buffalo: play action, pre-snap motion, early down aggressiveness, etc.
A best practice would be to get a QB of Allen’s quality.
Not sure what else moves the needle in this league.
Giants hire Brian Daboll as head coach - ( New Window )
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In comment 15580831 adamg said:
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Can you grasp that?
More and more info is coming out that Flores had terrible relationships with bot his coaching staff and the front office. I have no idea why so many of you continue to ignore this and still wanted him.
People hated Coughlin too.
Bullshit. Some of the players did because he was hard on them but I’ve never heard anything of the sort in regards to his coaching staff or the front office.
I'll be curious to hear what BD says about QB situation.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
I noticed that 3 out of 4 teams playing this weekend have first time head coaches? I guess it works.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Parcells went 3-12-1 in his first year with the Giants, so how much did that stint at Air Force help him?
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the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
Yes, Im basing my argument on just the Giants. Because the Maras are still the ones picking the coach. And we all know Parcells never would have been picked if Rozelle did not foist George Young on the Maras. So really TC is the only winner they have ever picked.
There was a lot to like about Flores too. I would have been OK with him too. I wonder if he's a lock to get hired as a HC. If not, would love to see him as the Giants' DC. But that's probably a pipe dream.
Having terrible relationships with both the coaching staff and the front office is your idea of “agreeableness”? Haha, yeah ok. That’s just not sustainable if there is any hope for success. You act like he won 3 Super Bowls. He did a decent job but ended up getting shit canned because nobody could get along with him. How the hell are you supposed win consistently in that kind of environment?
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Don't be an asshole about this if you didn't get your guy, neither did Mara.
Is there any way now, we can trade both #1s this, next year, and the year after, plus Jones, for Allen? ;)
Good coaches have to start somewhere.
Imagine being Joe Judge right now, he wanted Daboll as his OC.
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
Is there any way now, we can trade both #1s this, next year, and the year after, plus Jones, for Allen? ;)
BW, we need to go with the New Jersey Bills if we are going to stick the way it was called in 1993 ;)
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Good coaches have to start somewhere.
The chances of Daboll being the next Sean McVay are infinitesimal. Shanahan had a much better resume and Zac Taylor sucked before Joe Burrow fell in his lap.
The player personnel in this situation will be everything.
O LINE,out of the 1st 3 picks in the draft..And give is new DC his edge guy..And it wouldn't surprise me that the 3rd round pick is a WR who can stay hopefully healthy all season..
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It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Ah, we found our conspiracy theory. That was an obvious one…
I don't think the Giants have ever had a bald head coach. He's going to have to wear Ernie's rug to make Mara feel more comfortable around him.
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the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
Schoen wants this guy, good enough for me.
Go Giants!
I started from the end and was like, "Wow, he used to be in really good shape!"
10 pictures later. "And here's where he gets fat."
10 pictures later. "Oh shit, he got in shape again! Get it Daboll!"
10 pictures later. "And fat again."
10 pictures later. "Oh damn, he pulled it together again!"
Then comes the Buffalo era. "Just fat and fatter."
I'm looking forward to the next step in the journey
Quote:
In comment 15580812 Vanzetti said:
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the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
HQ?
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It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
What QB would you use? Remember you have no money, and you need your draft picks to rebuild the roster. Plus Jones has little value right now.
Steve Tisch: "It was obvious Brian has spent his career preparing for this moment. He is creative, thoughtful, determined. Joe & Brian are the perfect complement to each other. We will do everything we can to support their process as they build toward '22 season and after that."
Giants announced it. Done deal.
GO GIANTS!!!!
See the front page.
Flores will need to get as a DC and establish he can work with people. The GM and HC need to be aligned and that has been a problem with the Giants going back to Reese.
We’ll see how he does, I do have concerns about how much of his success was due to Allen’s massive talent but maybe he was a big reason for Allen becoming what he is now. Who knows.
I’m excited about the direction of the franchise. Hopefully we are able to get back on track and start winning again.
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It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Yes, I’m guessing it’s likely the owners of a billion dollar franchise hired their new GM and HC based on whether they’d keep one player who will be a free agent next year if they don’t pick up his option, because — loyalty?
I am sure everyone wants Daniel Jones to succeed. That makes things a lot easier. But if he’s not the guy, the new GM is tasked with finding the guy. That’s his job. But no one is tasked with keeping Jones at cost to the team. Come on.
Tom Coughlin Jay Fund
@tcjayfund
Welcome to New York, Coach Daboll!
Fangio would make me a feel a lot better.
Hahahaha. Bravo sir. That made me laugh
This. Daniel Jones had the same or better numbers his first 2 years in the league than Josh Allen did his first 2 years.
Link - ( New Window )
Fangio would make me a feel a lot better.
Here's one thing to consider. It wasn't John Mara who picked him. Mara picked the last two. I'd be in line with your thinking if it was the same guy making the choice.
I also think Daboll’s resume is just so much stronger than McAdoo and Judge, and better than Shurmur given his unsuccessful Cleveland stint. He’s just a much stronger candidate.
Let’s go.
After 35 years in Rochester, I was pulling for the Bills*. But even during the game I felt the consolation prize was getting Daboll earlier if he was selected HC.
*Stayed faithful to the NYG as my #1 team; WHAM used to carry Giant games and I'd listen in the UofR computer lab while punching IBM cards on Sundays, the only available time from the University - and I had a full time day job to boot.
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hope i'm wrong but this hire feels a lot like McAdoo and Shurmur. in a year where there were numerous candidates available who had successes as head coaches before it's a letdown to be playing coordinator roulette again.
Fangio would make me a feel a lot better.
Here's one thing to consider. It wasn't John Mara who picked him. Mara picked the last two. I'd be in line with your thinking if it was the same guy making the choice.
John Mara doesn't pick the 8 or 9 in every 10 new coordinators who fail as HCs in other organizations.
Schoen and Daboll, not unlike Judge, may be a very bright guys who simply don't know what they don't know because they have never done it.
I know this is unorthodox with respect to "the right way", but i believe there's a good reason coaches make 2-3x what GM's make. they are more important and harder to find. I'd have hired 1 of the experienced head coaches (likely Harbough or Flores) and let them pick a GM they can work with. It's a lot easier to find people who can do a good job scouting players than head coaches who can win football games. That's basically what Oakland and KC did with Gruden and Reid. Ron Rivera and Pete Carroll also got hired with say over the GM. There aren't too many examples because there are rarely experienced head coaches available so most of the time that's not an option but since it was this time I think i'd have preferred going that route after the other didnt work 3x in a row.
i hope we got the next mcvay or staley but that's a bet with long odds. maybe the law of averages finally goes in our favor.
Look, this could fail. But it does also work.
Andy Reid was a rookie Head Coach who had never done anything but coach offensive line.
McVay was named a head coach at 30 years old which was wildly unprecedented. Never a head coach.
McDermott for Buffalo was a rookie head coach
Sean Payton, rookie head coach.
Mike Tomlin, rookie head coach.
Kyle Shanahan, rookie head coach
Mike Vrabel, rookie head coach
None of these men had ever been a head coach before at any level.
I think the biggest problem has been talent for a decade. In this case the GM was the more important role to upgrade processes and start drafting better. Even if Daboll does not work out you can correct things easier if JS does his job imv. All our recent coaches and TC’s were all impacted by the roster especially the OL.
My only worry is I don’t want to be pass happy and I want a really good defense. Since I’ve been a fan the NFC East had been won by the most physical team and that wins in the playoffs as well.
I started from the end and was like, "Wow, he used to be in really good shape!"
10 pictures later. "And here's where he gets fat."
10 pictures later. "Oh shit, he got in shape again! Get it Daboll!"
10 pictures later. "And fat again."
10 pictures later. "Oh damn, he pulled it together again!"
Then comes the Buffalo era. "Just fat and fatter."
I'm looking forward to the next step in the journey
Brian has to be great - he coached up Bret Farve! (j/k)
Oh great. He’ll never finish the playbook.
Look, this could fail. But it does also work.
Andy Reid was a rookie Head Coach who had never done anything but coach offensive line.
McVay was named a head coach at 30 years old which was wildly unprecedented. Never a head coach.
McDermott for Buffalo was a rookie head coach
Sean Payton, rookie head coach.
Mike Tomlin, rookie head coach.
Kyle Shanahan, rookie head coach
Mike Vrabel, rookie head coach
None of these men had ever been a head coach before at any level.
Everyone is a rookie at some point. Daboll is slightly more experienced than Judge but from the same background. Shurmur was more experienced than both. McAdoo a hybrid of all 3. none are outliers to the failure rate of NFL coordinators.
Bottomline is this time unlike most other years they had several to choose from who weren't rookies. Jim Harbough has a near .700 winning% in the NFL and was rumored to be interested in the job. Flores has just 5 less wins than Buffalo (whose HC was also a defensive coach by expertise) the last 2 years with Tua/Fitz/Brissett not Josh Allen. Pederson won a SB with Nick Foles. How thrilled would we be to get to see a team get to another SB even if they choke it away like Quinn did?
I really do hope Daboll is the next Shanahan/McVay but there was a higher % play available.
We’ll see how he does, I do have concerns about how much of his success was due to Allen’s massive talent but maybe he was a big reason for Allen becoming what he is now. Who knows.
I’m excited about the direction of the franchise. Hopefully we are able to get back on track and start winning again.
I'm with you.
The last 3 coaches talked the Packers philosophy (of a decade ago) of developing from within, using the PS as an integral part of that system, high character etc in a learning/teaching environment. I even liked JJ's the search for teachers as coaches. I bought it all; hook, line and sinker.
I won't doubt Brian, but I will wait a while afore I jump on the band wagon.
At least we know we’ll have a modern offense.
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In comment 15580759 adamg said:
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You've been on a troll track the past few weeks. Is this your new identity?
Just because I disagreed with you, I'm a troll now? Fuck off.
Wait, all of your posts for the past week have been sincere?!
where was the Jets talent base pre-Parcells?
or I suppose more relevant to this search, the Dolphins in 2019 after trading Tunsil/Fitzpatrick?
or the Niners pre-harbough when they hadn't had a winning season in a decade?
head coaches are the most important person in every nfl org.
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trunk and get him the hell over here!
After 35 years in Rochester, I was pulling for the Bills*. But even during the game I felt the consolation prize was getting Daboll earlier if he was selected HC.
*Stayed faithful to the NYG as my #1 team; WHAM used to carry Giant games and I'd listen in the UofR computer lab while punching IBM cards on Sundays, the only available time from the University - and I had a full time day job to boot.
are you a U of R alum? So is our new coach. Meliora, bitches!
At least we know we’ll have a modern offense.
there are no guarantees you will win if you walk into a casino but there are games you can play that will give you better odds of winning than others. a poker player walking into poker room where they've won money before is better odds than someone walking up to a game they've never played before, even if it's similar to one they have.
we are certainly doing our part to give people chances.
If our new GM fails to upgrade the Giants talent, almost every coach will fail here. But the reverse? If Daboll fails but Schoen is starting to build a talented team, in 2025 or 2026 when they would to find a new coach, the team would be poised for excellence and the coaching vacancy would be very desirable.
So most of the time, I agree with you, but this is an exception.
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In comment 15580820 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15580759 adamg said:
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You've been on a troll track the past few weeks. Is this your new identity?
Just because I disagreed with you, I'm a troll now? Fuck off.
Wait, all of your posts for the past week have been sincere?!
Am I bothering you? You and Producer have a thing going on?
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An experienced head coach doesn’t guarantee anything.
At least we know we’ll have a modern offense.
there are no guarantees you will win if you walk into a casino but there are games you can play that will give you better odds of winning than others. a poker player walking into poker room where they've won money before is better odds than someone walking up to a game they've never played before, even if it's similar to one they have.
Is Harbaugh leaving a cushy job at Michigan to rebuild the Giants? Besides Flores who is still pretty inexperienced, what other experienced head coach did you want?
All 4 of those guys individually have more winning seasons than the Giants org since the last SB, some in only a handful of seasons coached in that specific period of time.
I'm not anti-Daboll but I find it hard to believe independent of a relationship with Schoen he'd have beat out all 4 despite their edge in experience.
If our new GM fails to upgrade the Giants talent, almost every coach will fail here. But the reverse? If Daboll fails but Schoen is starting to build a talented team, in 2025 or 2026 when they would to find a new coach, the team would be poised for excellence and the coaching vacancy would be very desirable.
So most of the time, I agree with you, but this is an exception.
Grier was the one who hired flores and up until the moment flores got fired was thought to be his best achievement.
sorry but with certain team sports - the NFL and NHL - we've seen it too many times where the same rosters produce very different outcomes one season to the next with different coaching. The Rangers and Islanders are both recent examples. The Jets with Parcells. The Raiders went through how many coaches in between Gruden and almost all of them finished last. The Bucs had been in last place 7 of 8 years before Arians - Jason Licht as GM almost the entire time. And even before Brady got there Arians made them better right away. Without Arians they probably don't get Brady.
Harbough's rumored interest was the unicorn in this situation, and though I can acknowledge he may not be the right personality for every situation there were enough others with experience I'd have stayed in that aisle.
That's quite an understatement.
Joe Judge coached Special teams for 4 years
WR coach for 1 year.
Daboll paid his dues.
4 years WR coach
2 years QB coach
8 years Offensive Coordinator
3 years TE coach
another 1 year running offense in college (and a great one).
But just as much as the years is the exposure to multiple head coaches, styles and methods.
It's not close.
Again, it could fail as much as any other coach, but definitely not because Daboll is a wannabe Belichick robot or a guy who's never been in the trenches. He's done a lot of coaching.
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It should be about Schoen-Daboll evaluating for the next QB. I think Jones *should* be irrelevant in all this.
Jesus, I wish I shared your view on this. I have the worst feeling a certain owner said to a certain new GM that he could have his new HC as long as both agreed to go with a certain QB.
Holy cow, talk about stubborn. Mara has done everything many said he would not do. Now the narrative is they must have agreed to keep Jones! Hahaha, that s unbelievable, even for you.
What was that definition of insanity again? I thought it had something to do with making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results. But now I can clearly see that I have been mistaken. It's simply being a Giants fan.
Nuff said. Hope I'm wrong. Fairly certain I'm not.
What was that definition of insanity again? I thought it had something to do with making the same mistake over and over again and expecting different results. But now I can clearly see that I have been mistaken. It's simply being a Giants fan.
Nuff said. Hope I'm wrong. Fairly certain I'm not.
I find your take comical at best.
Daboll is 46 with 8 seasons as a coordinator but they were scatter shot until the last 4 in Buffalo which are what got him hired.
You're right that the 8 years Daboll has on Judge were years spent as an NFL assistant which are relevant, and perhaps being an offensive coordinator is also better preparation than Special Teams.
Like I said though Daboll is in some ways a hybrid of the last 3 coaches they've hired. He has the recent offensive achievement shurmur had, but with less stench of loser. He has the NE/Bama pedigree Judge had, with a little more relevant experience. And a little bit of the worry mcadoo came with of possibly having been swept up in the success of a great QB.
hey look, if he can combine the good qualities judge had with the offensive capability shurmur showed being able to get more out of less offensively then maybe they finally got it right. my point isn't anti daboll, it's pro experience since this was a rare offseason with a few experienced options and this job appeared to be the most coveted.
And it figures some clueless posts making this about Jones. This has no relevancy to Daboll.
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In comment 15580816 Producer said:
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In comment 15580812 Vanzetti said:
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the thing that most prepared him for being Giants HC was being HC at Air Force
Parcells and Coughlin are Giants only two successful coaches of the last 50 years and both had HC experience
So what do Giants do? Hire another career assistant like Judge, Shurmer,, and McAdoo
You are basing your entire argument on just the Giants and a sample size of two? There are a lot of amazing HCs who came out of OC/DC. How about looking at that universe of choices?
I like how you condensed his list of three to two.
Shurmer had been a HQ before...
You can say he had no HQ experience on the NFL level since it was the Browns, but the poster mentioned Air Force, and even Cleveland is as good as Air Force!
HQ?
I don't know. I'm going to blame it on the cellphone and auto correct....
Joe Judge, January, 2020?
For every unsuccessful rookie HC, there's some who succeeded.
Stop getting hung up on one way or another. What's important is the individual.
That was funny...
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
Link - ( New Window )
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our next conspiracy theory? Mara is going to make Daboll go on a diet? Mara won’t let him change the menu in the cafeteria?
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
Already have noticed one since the Daboll hiring. Mara wanted Daboll because Daboll "loves Jones", which keeps Jones in place. Mara was going to initially force the Flores hire because of the BC connection. Once told that Daboll "loves Jones", Mara shifted to a force hire of Daboll.
rookie GM - rookie HC - new OC - trash QB - washed RB - questionable WR corp
looks like we'll be sub 500 for the next 3-5 years
UNLESS....Deshaun Watson admits he was addicted to sex, gets some counseling and does a presser on how he wants to redefine his life...and we make the trade
true, i'm sure that particular conversation came up
and it probably helped tip the scale the other way
rookie GM - rookie HC - new OC - trash QB - washed RB - questionable WR corp
looks like we'll be sub 500 for the next 3-5 years
UNLESS....Deshaun Watson admits he was addicted to sex, gets some counseling and does a presser on how he wants to redefine his life...and we make the trade
This post is not a slam. Just wondering what your expectations are/were for the hiring instead of Daboll?
1-- You speak of sub .500 so if they stay around .500 but accomplish nothing but mediocrity, then that is okay? SO my guess is you want to see a build-up as a contender, right? Other than seeing team built to be a contender, nothing else really moves the needle, right?
2--- What were you expecting in 2022 for the Giants season? You think magically they were going to turn into a great contender?
3--- You don't want Jones-- okay. So what trade is going to make you a contender in 2022 or 2023?
4--- You are saying 3-5 years. Well what about year 3? You think we’re going to be contender in 3 years?
5—Suppose we draft one of the top QB’s available in 2023? You think we would be still headed in the wrong direction?
6-- What were you expecting for their team to be a good football team in 2 years or less?
I have a friend who speaks to an NFL scout weekly. Joe Schoen was going to name Brian Daboll as the head coach. The Giants were being politically correct with Brian Flores.
Last year, many Giant fans castigated Micah Parsons and said he would be a bust. They were prescient. Scouts noted that Parsons and Odafe Oweh had changed the way edge-rushers are drafted. The NFL wants athletes with great speed and quickness. College production is less important.
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our next conspiracy theory? Mara is going to make Daboll go on a diet? Mara won’t let him change the menu in the cafeteria?
I was thinking about that too...seem to be running out of rabbit holes to go down.
- Giants are just going to keep Gettleman on another year. Nope
- Mara is not going to fire Judge. Nope
- Abrams will just be named GM. Nope
- They will just run another fake GM search and hire a crony. Nope
- Mara is never going to let Schoen pick the head coach. Nope
- John and Chris Mara are running a parallel head coach search. Nope
- Mara’s top choice is Flores and will override Schoen. Nope
My guess is we will quickly be moving into the whole Schoen isn’t the real GM thing and the Mara’s are invoking mandates on keeping Jones and Saquon in place.
But if it’s going to be something else please weigh in on where you want go next...
How many of these things would have happened if Judge hadn't totally melted down over the course of two weeks and Tisch didn't put his foot down?
If this rebuild is done right this time, maybe we have "Meltdown Judge" to thank...