that they have no intention of hitching their wagon to Jones.
However, in seeking a compromise that is fair for all involved, they have agreed to share an Uber ride to Times Square with Jones, and split the cost equally.
They have to plan for Daniel Jones getting injured.
And I'm not talking a career backup QB.
If he goes down in say, week 3 and its an injury where he misses 8 weeks, what's the plan? Are they going to be satisfied with say a Colt McCoy filling un and then welcome back DJ as our franchise QB? I just think the qustion marks over DJ will lead them to seriously consider drafting a QB.
There have been times when he's played like a franchise QB and times where he seems like he simply doesn't process things fast enough to ever be great. On top of all that are the injuries. This feeling that even if the game does slow down for him and he takes that next step, it will be the injuries that break our heart.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
There have been times when he's played like a franchise QB and times where he seems like he simply doesn't process things fast enough to ever be great. On top of all that are the injuries. This feeling that even if the game does slow down for him and he takes that next step, it will be the injuries that break our heart.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
Good points all around.
Jones has shown no ability to process at an NFL level. He is also a turnover machine. Yes, he has a piss poor line, but so does Burrow.
They need an OL, but they also need better play from the QB position.
Hes gotten worse each year since his rookie year. It's not a "narrative". Good players will eventually look like good players. Jones'two memorable games are Tampa as a rookie and New Orleans this year. That's it.
Even if he loves Jones, he knows he’s already dealing with a major injury. I don’t care how great you are or think he is, Jones neck injury is no joke.
And one would think Jones may not be as reluctant to run knowing he is free game.
We'll see if they pick up the option, we will see what happens in free agency, then the draft and who the other QBs on the team are. If Jones is the starter the best thing that could happen for the Giants is that he becomes a QB a team can win with. If not hopefully they finally move on.
I'm not a believer to put it mildly but I'm not unhappy to hear this. I want the draft to be about the OL, DL/Edge and LBs. OT and Edge in round 1. Edge/LB in round 2. OG and Edge/LB in round 3 and then a WR, RB and more OG/C with the rest of the picks.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
There have been times when he's played like a franchise QB and times where he seems like he simply doesn't process things fast enough to ever be great. On top of all that are the injuries. This feeling that even if the game does slow down for him and he takes that next step, it will be the injuries that break our heart.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
+1.
BP went with Scott Brunner over 28 year old Phil Simms
so even the greats get it wrong. Simms had been battling injuries and inconsistency the first 6 years of his career, even the 1986 Super Bowl run he was up and down and it was the defense that carried the team.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
with the internet age.. would Phil simms have lasted past ‘83?
Would people be banging the drum for Dave Brown to get a better shot?
Interesting questions.
.
That is a good question on Simms, in this day and age, probably as a backup. Even Dave Brown got another job w/Cardinals.
Look how quickly Trubisky became a backup.
I am not saying I like Trubisky, but he went from a
No. 2 pick in the draft, to fairly quickly a backup with Buffalo. This is also what happens when an organization falls in love with a QB who played about 13 games in college. That is just one example, there are more.
I am waiting to see what Trey Lance does in this league, same thing. He is also from a FCS school.
He is more athletic.
The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
Mara wants the best read possible on DJ and Barkley and rest of skill players next year. Contracts are coming up. He probably told Joe/Brian he'll open up the cap to fix the OL even eating some dead money. Think he was even quoted saying he'd eat some dead money to open up space. With a better OL and system in place DJ gets this year. If DJ still fails they were likely told they can move forward with a new QB in 2023.
RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
When the deck is constantly stacked against you. Now here’s the thing that’s gonna drive this board crazy when they pick up Jones option he will have two years to show he can do it . If y’all listen to what’s being said they want a specific type of qb with similar attributes as Allen. Jones has those. As they say they will build the offense around him.it’s the truth but not the whole truth. This will be the offense whether Jones was here or not and will require a specific type of qb. It will probably take two years to really get the players to run it effectively. If at that time Jones has proven he belongs awesome if not they will then get their guy and I’d be willing to bet my left hand he will have very similar attributes to Jones/Allen
For some reason, I want to set this to to the first verse
Daniel Jones just needs better coaches
To maximize his talent next year
You can say that Daniel has no chance
but Mara, Jones, and Daboll still believe
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The narrative is that Jones is good
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
When the deck is constantly stacked against you. Now here’s the thing that’s gonna drive this board crazy when they pick up Jones option he will have two years to show he can do it . If y’all listen to what’s being said they want a specific type of qb with similar attributes as Allen. Jones has those. As they say they will build the offense around him.it’s the truth but not the whole truth. This will be the offense whether Jones was here or not and will require a specific type of qb. It will probably take two years to really get the players to run it effectively. If at that time Jones has proven he belongs awesome if not they will then get their guy and I’d be willing to bet my left hand he will have very similar attributes to Jones/Allen
Dude that's sounds spot on.
I am trusting Daboll and Schoen to figure out Jones and what to
Don’t exercise his option and take it from there. There isn’t a gun to the organizations head on what to do with him right now. He’s got a year left on a team friendly deal.
a Great Quarterback for the New York Giants, it is a rite of passage. Simms and Eli the most recent great Quarterbacks to put on a New York Football Giants Uniform both went through adversity even extended adversity before they attained greatness. Daniel Jones is no different. He is being refined by fire. Next year, in his 4th the stars may finally align. Higher end receivers, a repaired OL, a system built around his talents. This is what some hope for next year.
RE: Comparing Simms' situation to DJ situation is lunancy.
IT'S A FUCKING DIFFERENT LEAGUE THAN IT WAS IN THE '80S!
while I don't expect DJ to be the Giants QB in 2023 but there is no reason that comparing Simms and DJ is somehow unfair due to the era/rules/nature of the game.
Unless I'm mistaken, the comparison is of the struggles and the players and coaches ability to overcome them.
a Great Quarterback for the New York Giants, it is a rite of passage. Simms and Eli the most recent great Quarterbacks to put on a New York Football Giants Uniform both went through adversity even extended adversity before they attained greatness. Daniel Jones is no different. He is being refined by fire. Next year, in his 4th the stars may finally align. Higher end receivers, a repaired OL, a system built around his talents. This is what some hope for next year.
"Refined by fire?"
Are you serious? That is your fantasy. But in reality Jones is not improving. You think the Giants are right to take 5/6 years to build up a QB to make some run. But what if that doesn't happen? What if after 5/6 years we still suck and he's still bad. What will you say then?
We have teams doing 2/3 year turnarounds. Look at Cincy, SD, Arizona... don't you see this? The name of the game is to get the elite guy as soon as possible. It's not to refine a nobody into a star. That happens in movies, not the NFL in 2022.
RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
IT'S A FUCKING DIFFERENT LEAGUE THAN IT WAS IN THE '80S!
while I don't expect DJ to be the Giants QB in 2023 but there is no reason that comparing Simms and DJ is somehow unfair due to the era/rules/nature of the game.
Unless I'm mistaken, the comparison is of the struggles and the players and coaches ability to overcome them.
The main reason why we can't compare eras is because the level of play of QB's coming out of college has increased dramatically. Teams no longer have the patience to let a QB develop for 3 or 4 years because they know that the next Mahomes, or Jackson, or Herbert, or Burrow is just another draft away. The standard has elevated for that position - instant production is expected.
Also, it's fair to say that QB's are given more slack for early struggles if the team is at least winning games. Not quite as much with Simms, but the Giants began winning games with Eli immediately while he was still young and getting shit figured out. The same with Josh Allen. Jones may eventually overcome his issues, but he will have gotten a lot of coaches fired before that happens.
I think structurally the Giants don't have much choice but to give Jones another go this year, and I'll be rooting for him to succeed. I just hope that this GM and these coaches know when it's time to pull the plug.
His receivers playing injury musical chairs. The worst OL in the league. Terrible play calling. All of those are very apparent so I can't fairly judge ANY QB behind those conditions. I don't see any QB in the league doing better or worse. Impossible to grade.
However, he does have issues staying healthy. The neck in particular is very worrisome to me. I do have concerns with his durability which has been a problem with the team for a long time.
It's Jones for me in 2022. Salary cap and lack of options don't really give us much of a choice. Going after a player like Wilson is a waste because his prime years would conclude as we rebuild. Also, I question Wilson's motives for coming to NY but that's a guess on my part. I fear that they don't have anything to do with football.
The problem; Even if we go all out for OL in the draft they will be rookies. Jones will essentially be learning a whole new offense, again. Then the receiving core needs to be healthy so reliability, stability, and a modicum of continuity can be established with the QB and his receivers.
If we are lucky, Jones can start being re-evaluated around mid-season through the end of season, not before. The cards are stacked against him and I still see a high QB draft pick for the Giants in 2023 if Jones can't overcome the odds.
That being said, in 2022, every player is on a tryout. I wouldn't count on much next season. 2023 is the year we can hope to see things turn around IMHO. This is why I'm for spending draft picks on OL and try to trade picks to get the player where he's valued at. Alternatively, trade picks for more next year as we likely may need ammo to move up to get new QB (if we aren't dead last to begin with).
RE: RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
Not exactly. Some of the decision-makers back then had their heads in the sand regarding Eli Manning. His game was in decline and it was ignored because of their respective bias and/or poor evaluation skills.
So they went on their merry and tried to win with him for a few more seasons...but that was never going to happen. Eli continued to decline, as did the roster around him due to poor GM work. The decision making got worse and worse, and here we are in 2022...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
In 2016, the NY Giants scraped their way to an 11-5 record with a very stingy defense and the occasional OBJ wow-moment.
Eli Manning's Passer Rating that season was 86.0 placing him 22nd in the league. And his QBR was 45.7 placing him 27th.
Milton - what are you suggesting we should glean from that 2016 season and Eli Manning on this topic?
It wasn't Eli that lost the playoff game vs Green Bay. He was money that day. As for what else can be gleaned from 2016: the Giants aren't half-bad when they're not at the bottom of the league in injuries.
In 2016, the NY Giants scraped their way to an 11-5 record with a very stingy defense and the occasional OBJ wow-moment.
Eli Manning's Passer Rating that season was 86.0 placing him 22nd in the league. And his QBR was 45.7 placing him 27th.
Milton - what are you suggesting we should glean from that 2016 season and Eli Manning on this topic?
It wasn't Eli that lost the playoff game vs Green Bay. He was money that day. As for what else can be gleaned from 2016: the Giants aren't half-bad when they're not at the bottom of the league in injuries.
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
I still don't see the connection. In hindsight the Giants should have made a change after 2016.
This is a roster construction question...not just with Jones, but with everyone.
But, I've said several times if the incoming GM and HC are truly like him, I'll trust them. However, if this is tonplacate Mara, I'm already sure on everyone.
Regardless, I think they would be absolutely uts to lick up his 5th year option. First, he has injury concerns. Second, he has yet to put together a season where he established himself as a franchise QB. This should be a prove it year for him.
Further, if they make him prove it, I think it would be irresponsible to franchise him. You either extend him or move on. The guy has never played anywhere near a top 5 QB in the league, so paying him guaranteed money like one when the cap is an issue is a huge mistake, in my opinion. Stop rewarding mediocrity
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Exactly! It was his bar mitzvah year, whereas for Jones it is merely year four (which represents success and independence--body, soul, and spirit--in Hebrew numerology). Of course it was season four in which Eli won his first Super Bowl. I trust you can do the math from here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The internet has nothing to do with sticking with a QB
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Exactly! It was his bar mitzvah year, whereas for Jones it is merely year four (which represents success and independence--body, soul, and spirit--in Hebrew numerology). Of course it was season four in which Eli won his first Super Bowl. I trust you can do the math from here.
I don't know what you're prattling on about.
Milton - asking again. What is the relevance about
The kids got a year left on a rookie deal. Why would you move on at this point. Of course he’s the starter going into the year. They’ll build the roster and evaluate him during this season. He’s playing for his career. If he fails we’ll be in great shape to select a QB next season with a much improved roster specifically the offensive line. Plus, we’ll have cap space. It’s such a simple plan and some fans get all worked up on Daniel Jones. Half this site rather see the kid fail terribly then succeed just so they can say I told you so.
Didn't we say that last year? Wasn't that his make or break year? How many chances does this fucker get?
He wasn't good at Duke, he wasn't good in high school, he isn't good in the NFL. Let's hope and wish he finally becomes good in year 4 in the NFL...that happens all the time.
I wonder - when Jones is a backup elsewhere in 2023 will you guys keep the wave of excuses going?
Actually, he was good at Duke. Watch his Junior year film when he had some players on the offensive side.
However, in seeking a compromise that is fair for all involved, they have agreed to share an Uber ride to Times Square with Jones, and split the cost equally.
That sound reasonable to you?
And I'm not talking a career backup QB.
If he goes down in say, week 3 and its an injury where he misses 8 weeks, what's the plan? Are they going to be satisfied with say a Colt McCoy filling un and then welcome back DJ as our franchise QB? I just think the qustion marks over DJ will lead them to seriously consider drafting a QB.
Would people be banging the drum for Dave Brown to get a better shot?
Interesting questions.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
Good points all around.
Jones has shown no ability to process at an NFL level. He is also a turnover machine. Yes, he has a piss poor line, but so does Burrow.
They need an OL, but they also need better play from the QB position.
Good thing someone else makes the decisions
A bettwr decision would be to accept piss poor QB play because other parts of the team are also bad?
Good QBs raise the tesm up (Burrow). Good QBs don't need perfection surrounding them to not play like ass.
You people can't possibly believe the shit you say. You don't want to live in reality.
And one would think Jones may not be as reluctant to run knowing he is free game.
I'm not a believer to put it mildly but I'm not unhappy to hear this. I want the draft to be about the OL, DL/Edge and LBs. OT and Edge in round 1. Edge/LB in round 2. OG and Edge/LB in round 3 and then a WR, RB and more OG/C with the rest of the picks.
Quote:
No evidence that he is good exists.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
All that being said, Schoen and Daboll loving Jones can be anything from 100% accurate to pure smokescreen in anticipation of the draft.
+1.
Quote:
In comment 15581505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No evidence that he is good exists.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
Would people be banging the drum for Dave Brown to get a better shot?
Interesting questions.
That is a good question on Simms, in this day and age, probably as a backup. Even Dave Brown got another job w/Cardinals.
Look how quickly Trubisky became a backup.
I am not saying I like Trubisky, but he went from a
No. 2 pick in the draft, to fairly quickly a backup with Buffalo. This is also what happens when an organization falls in love with a QB who played about 13 games in college. That is just one example, there are more.
I am waiting to see what Trey Lance does in this league, same thing. He is also from a FCS school.
He is more athletic.
In 1983 there was no salary cap, no free agency, no rookie contract structure.
Phil Simms is not relevant to today. Eli isn't even relevant anymore. Anything before 2011 isn't really relevant.
Quote:
Phil Simms is not relevant to today. Eli isn't even relevant anymore. Anything before 2011 isn't really relevant.
And 2016 isn't relevant because the Giants had a winning season that year.
What are you talking about?
Quote:
In comment 15581617 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15581505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No evidence that he is good exists.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
When the deck is constantly stacked against you. Now here’s the thing that’s gonna drive this board crazy when they pick up Jones option he will have two years to show he can do it . If y’all listen to what’s being said they want a specific type of qb with similar attributes as Allen. Jones has those. As they say they will build the offense around him.it’s the truth but not the whole truth. This will be the offense whether Jones was here or not and will require a specific type of qb. It will probably take two years to really get the players to run it effectively. If at that time Jones has proven he belongs awesome if not they will then get their guy and I’d be willing to bet my left hand he will have very similar attributes to Jones/Allen
Daniel Jones just needs better coaches
To maximize his talent next year
You can say that Daniel has no chance
but Mara, Jones, and Daboll still believe
Quote:
In comment 15581838 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581617 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 15581505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No evidence that he is good exists.
We don’t know if he’ll make a good NFL QB, given the absolute shit he’s had - in personnel, coaching; you name it. But we also don’t “know” he sucks: at least not yet. He may very well flame out, he may not. But I know this - these guys know a shit load more than YOU do.
🤷🏻♂️
How has he had "shit" coaching? Shurmur is a bad HC but has been a very good OC. Garrett, played the position in the NFL and worked with Romo and Prescott, one a UDFA and the other a 4th round pick that were turned into very good NFL qb's. He had Cutcliffe for 4 years who is a qb coach.
At some point, the guy is what he is and what at least some scouts and draft guides said at the time he was drafted- Case Keenum.
It can -never- be Jones fault. Always have to pass it off to someone else.
When the deck is constantly stacked against you. Now here’s the thing that’s gonna drive this board crazy when they pick up Jones option he will have two years to show he can do it . If y’all listen to what’s being said they want a specific type of qb with similar attributes as Allen. Jones has those. As they say they will build the offense around him.it’s the truth but not the whole truth. This will be the offense whether Jones was here or not and will require a specific type of qb. It will probably take two years to really get the players to run it effectively. If at that time Jones has proven he belongs awesome if not they will then get their guy and I’d be willing to bet my left hand he will have very similar attributes to Jones/Allen
Dude that's sounds spot on.
Unless I'm mistaken, the comparison is of the struggles and the players and coaches ability to overcome them.
"Refined by fire?"
Are you serious? That is your fantasy. But in reality Jones is not improving. You think the Giants are right to take 5/6 years to build up a QB to make some run. But what if that doesn't happen? What if after 5/6 years we still suck and he's still bad. What will you say then?
We have teams doing 2/3 year turnarounds. Look at Cincy, SD, Arizona... don't you see this? The name of the game is to get the elite guy as soon as possible. It's not to refine a nobody into a star. That happens in movies, not the NFL in 2022.
Quote:
In comment 15582488 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Phil Simms is not relevant to today. Eli isn't even relevant anymore. Anything before 2011 isn't really relevant.
And 2016 isn't relevant because the Giants had a winning season that year.
What are you talking about?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
IT'S A FUCKING DIFFERENT LEAGUE THAN IT WAS IN THE '80S!
while I don't expect DJ to be the Giants QB in 2023 but there is no reason that comparing Simms and DJ is somehow unfair due to the era/rules/nature of the game.
Unless I'm mistaken, the comparison is of the struggles and the players and coaches ability to overcome them.
The main reason why we can't compare eras is because the level of play of QB's coming out of college has increased dramatically. Teams no longer have the patience to let a QB develop for 3 or 4 years because they know that the next Mahomes, or Jackson, or Herbert, or Burrow is just another draft away. The standard has elevated for that position - instant production is expected.
Also, it's fair to say that QB's are given more slack for early struggles if the team is at least winning games. Not quite as much with Simms, but the Giants began winning games with Eli immediately while he was still young and getting shit figured out. The same with Josh Allen. Jones may eventually overcome his issues, but he will have gotten a lot of coaches fired before that happens.
I think structurally the Giants don't have much choice but to give Jones another go this year, and I'll be rooting for him to succeed. I just hope that this GM and these coaches know when it's time to pull the plug.
However, he does have issues staying healthy. The neck in particular is very worrisome to me. I do have concerns with his durability which has been a problem with the team for a long time.
It's Jones for me in 2022. Salary cap and lack of options don't really give us much of a choice. Going after a player like Wilson is a waste because his prime years would conclude as we rebuild. Also, I question Wilson's motives for coming to NY but that's a guess on my part. I fear that they don't have anything to do with football.
The problem; Even if we go all out for OL in the draft they will be rookies. Jones will essentially be learning a whole new offense, again. Then the receiving core needs to be healthy so reliability, stability, and a modicum of continuity can be established with the QB and his receivers.
If we are lucky, Jones can start being re-evaluated around mid-season through the end of season, not before. The cards are stacked against him and I still see a high QB draft pick for the Giants in 2023 if Jones can't overcome the odds.
That being said, in 2022, every player is on a tryout. I wouldn't count on much next season. 2023 is the year we can hope to see things turn around IMHO. This is why I'm for spending draft picks on OL and try to trade picks to get the player where he's valued at. Alternatively, trade picks for more next year as we likely may need ammo to move up to get new QB (if we aren't dead last to begin with).
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In comment 15582794 Milton said:
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In comment 15582488 Go Terps said:
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Phil Simms is not relevant to today. Eli isn't even relevant anymore. Anything before 2011 isn't really relevant.
And 2016 isn't relevant because the Giants had a winning season that year.
What are you talking about?
Aren't we only allowed to use examples from when the Giants suck?
In 2016, the NY Giants scraped their way to an 11-5 record with a very stingy defense and the occasional OBJ wow-moment.
Eli Manning's Passer Rating that season was 86.0 placing him 22nd in the league. And his QBR was 45.7 placing him 27th.
Milton - what are you suggesting we should glean from that 2016 season and Eli Manning on this topic?
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In comment 15582794 Milton said:
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In comment 15582488 Go Terps said:
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Phil Simms is not relevant to today. Eli isn't even relevant anymore. Anything before 2011 isn't really relevant.
And 2016 isn't relevant because the Giants had a winning season that year.
What are you talking about?
Aren't we only allowed to use examples from when the Giants suck?
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
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What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
Not exactly. Some of the decision-makers back then had their heads in the sand regarding Eli Manning. His game was in decline and it was ignored because of their respective bias and/or poor evaluation skills.
So they went on their merry and tried to win with him for a few more seasons...but that was never going to happen. Eli continued to decline, as did the roster around him due to poor GM work. The decision making got worse and worse, and here we are in 2022...
In 2016, the NY Giants scraped their way to an 11-5 record with a very stingy defense and the occasional OBJ wow-moment.
Eli Manning's Passer Rating that season was 86.0 placing him 22nd in the league. And his QBR was 45.7 placing him 27th.
Milton - what are you suggesting we should glean from that 2016 season and Eli Manning on this topic?
Except neither statement is true.
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In 2016, the NY Giants scraped their way to an 11-5 record with a very stingy defense and the occasional OBJ wow-moment.
Eli Manning's Passer Rating that season was 86.0 placing him 22nd in the league. And his QBR was 45.7 placing him 27th.
Milton - what are you suggesting we should glean from that 2016 season and Eli Manning on this topic?
It wasn't Eli that lost the playoff game vs Green Bay. He was money that day. As for what else can be gleaned from 2016: the Giants aren't half-bad when they're not at the bottom of the league in injuries.
relevance to this topic?
Except neither statement is true.
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What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Simple.. at that time, the team knew the QB was not getting it done and still tried to put bandaids on the situation. He had not played well for a few years at that time. In fact, he lead the league in interceptions within recent history. It is extremely relevant to what we are about to see on this team in 2022. It has nothing to do with tenure.
I still don't see the connection. In hindsight the Giants should have made a change after 2016.
This is a roster construction question...not just with Jones, but with everyone.
Regardless, I think they would be absolutely uts to lick up his 5th year option. First, he has injury concerns. Second, he has yet to put together a season where he established himself as a franchise QB. This should be a prove it year for him.
Further, if they make him prove it, I think it would be irresponsible to franchise him. You either extend him or move on. The guy has never played anywhere near a top 5 QB in the league, so paying him guaranteed money like one when the cap is an issue is a huge mistake, in my opinion. Stop rewarding mediocrity
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What about 2016 is relevant to the Giants' current QB situation? Eli was a 13 year vet at that point.
Exactly! It was his bar mitzvah year, whereas for Jones it is merely year four (which represents success and independence--body, soul, and spirit--in Hebrew numerology). Of course it was season four in which Eli won his first Super Bowl. I trust you can do the math from here.
I don't know what you're prattling on about.
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The kids got a year left on a rookie deal. Why would you move on at this point. Of course he’s the starter going into the year. They’ll build the roster and evaluate him during this season. He’s playing for his career. If he fails we’ll be in great shape to select a QB next season with a much improved roster specifically the offensive line. Plus, we’ll have cap space. It’s such a simple plan and some fans get all worked up on Daniel Jones. Half this site rather see the kid fail terribly then succeed just so they can say I told you so.
Didn't we say that last year? Wasn't that his make or break year? How many chances does this fucker get?
Looks to me that he gets one more.
Exactly!
I wonder - when Jones is a backup elsewhere in 2023 will you guys keep the wave of excuses going?
Actually, he was good at Duke. Watch his Junior year film when he had some players on the offensive side.