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Hold up on Ken Dorsey possibly coming to NYG

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/28/2022 9:21 pm
G.T Bobby Thompson
@BThomps81
·
2m
A hold-up in the Ken Dorsey and #Giants deal to become official is the Rooney Rule. The team is obligated to interview two minorities. The team does not want to wait long on this

Jordan Schultz
@Schultz_Report
#Giants, per league rules, must also interview at least two minorities for their OC. Will be interesting to see who they bring in. Can’t imagine they want to wait very long.
These fucking morons don’t know the rules  
BeckShepEli : 1/28/2022 9:22 pm : link
1 minority for OC/DC/ST.


CBS - ( New Window )
Lol  
fanoftheteam : 1/28/2022 9:23 pm : link
Lol again
RE: These fucking morons don’t know the rules  
adamg : 1/28/2022 9:24 pm : link
In comment 15581323 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
1 minority for OC/DC/ST.
CBS - ( New Window )


Good catch
As for the bills  
Kevin in Annapolis : 1/28/2022 9:24 pm : link
No?
Actually  
BeckShepEli : 1/28/2022 9:25 pm : link
I’m wrong, google had it wrong.

Fuck me then. My bad
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/28/2022 9:25 pm : link
I'm confident that if Daboll wants him here & Dorsey wants to come...it'll happen.
As do the bills  
Kevin in Annapolis : 1/28/2022 9:26 pm : link
Stupid autocorrect
RE: Actually  
adamg : 1/28/2022 9:26 pm : link
In comment 15581331 BeckShepEli said:
Quote:
I’m wrong, google had it wrong.

Fuck me then. My bad


What do you mean? That article was clear. Did they change it?
If correct the "Rooney rule" for this round of OC interviews...  
Kev in Cali : 1/28/2022 9:32 pm : link
Who/how would we fulfill those OC interviews as options?



RE: If correct the  
adamg : 1/28/2022 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15581349 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:
Who/how would we fulfill those OC interviews as options?




Leftwich?
RE: RE: If correct the  
adamg : 1/28/2022 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15581353 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15581349 Kev in Cali said:


Quote:


Who/how would we fulfill those OC interviews as options?






Leftwich?


He's already an OC though. I guess some lesser known position coaches.
I’ll  
Straw Hat : 1/28/2022 9:34 pm : link
Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.
RE: I’ll  
Jerz44 : 1/28/2022 9:36 pm : link
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.


I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.
.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:37 pm : link
“ In May 2020, the league changed the Rooney Rule to require teams to interview at least two external minority candidates for a head coaching job and at least one external minority candidate for a coordinator job.”
I can't wait  
darren in pdx : 1/28/2022 9:38 pm : link
until this is over so I don't have read 'Rooney Rule' for another two years..
RE: I’ll  
Giantimistic : 1/28/2022 9:38 pm : link
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.


The rule is not to force the hire but to ensure that it is not just the old boys network and that more minorities get seen in the process and gain experience. The idea is also that teams are missing out on great candidates.

That being said, I. This case not sure who wants the interview when the choice is predetermined
RE: RE: I’ll  
adamg : 1/28/2022 9:38 pm : link
In comment 15581366 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.


There's one Black head coach in a league that's 70% Black...
At worst,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:39 pm : link
we wait for him..What will change if he wants to come here beyond the time element?
RE: I can't wait  
Big Blue '56 : 1/28/2022 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15581372 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
until this is over so I don't have read 'Rooney Rule' for another two years..


I see what you did there
RE: .  
Josh in the City : 1/28/2022 9:41 pm : link
In comment 15581371 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
“ In May 2020, the league changed the Rooney Rule to require teams to interview at least two external minority candidates for a head coaching job and at least one external minority candidate for a coordinator job.”

And that article was written in Oct 2021 about changes to that rule.
oh crap  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/28/2022 9:42 pm : link
Doug Rush
@TheDougRush
· 13m
Per the Rooney Rule:

The Giants are required to interview at least one outside candidate for a vacant coordinator position, and in this case, the offensive coordinator position.

They wouldn’t have to interview anyone if Patrick Graham is retained as defensive coordinator.
the best men do get the jobs  
Eric on Li : 1/28/2022 9:42 pm : link
the rooney rule is what it is and i find it impossible to believe it would ever cause a specifically targeted candidate like dorsey a job. Dorsey isn't going to pass on a huge offer because he has to wait a day or two. he's either going to stay in BUF because they have the best offer or go to the NYG because they do.

i'd be careful with this new crop of insiders that have popped up around this search which ended up with the 2 overwhelming favorites getting hired. maybe they are really plugged in and this is their breakout but more likely not.
What would happen if  
Blue Dream : 1/28/2022 9:43 pm : link
Knowing that they are intent on hiring Dorsey the Giants can't even convince a minority candidate to interview because they don't want to participate in a sham?
RE: What would happen if  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/28/2022 9:44 pm : link
In comment 15581385 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Knowing that they are intent on hiring Dorsey the Giants can't even convince a minority candidate to interview because they don't want to participate in a sham?


Hire a homeless guy off the street for $10?
RE: I’ll  
Danny Kanell : 1/28/2022 9:44 pm : link
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.


+1
RE: If correct the  
Mkdaman1818 : 1/28/2022 9:45 pm : link
In comment 15581349 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:
Who/how would we fulfill those OC interviews as options?




Caldwell
RE: RE: RE: If correct the  
Kev in Cali : 1/28/2022 9:49 pm : link
In comment 15581357 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15581353 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15581349 Kev in Cali said:


Quote:


Who/how would we fulfill those OC interviews as options?






Leftwich?



He's already an OC though. I guess some lesser known position coaches.


You replied to yourself their...not sure the reason...

But yeah, however all this Rooney stuff pans out, I think Dorsey should be the 1st choice based on his QB background for our current/future QB development needs.
Call someone from the Jets  
Chris684 : 1/28/2022 9:54 pm : link
for an interview tonight.

It’s a 20 minute drive from Florham Park.
So which minority candidate wants to participate in a sham interview?  
lawguy9801 : 1/28/2022 9:56 pm : link
It must feel very insulting to be asked at this point.
RE: RE: If correct the  
Kev in Cali : 1/28/2022 9:59 pm : link
In comment 15581394 Mkdaman1818 said:
Quote:

Caldwell


He's got a decent resume and is for hire???

RE: RE: I’ll  
Bob from Massachusetts : 1/28/2022 9:59 pm : link
In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1


This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.
RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Snablats : 1/28/2022 10:01 pm : link
In comment 15581374 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15581366 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.



There's one Black head coach in a league that's 70% Black...

And most of those players make enough money that they dont have to work again if they dont want to. How many African-Americans go into coaching compared to how many whites go into coaching? How many ex-NFL players go into coaching? Most coaches never made it to the NFL as players
RE: the best men do get the jobs  
Strahan91 : 1/28/2022 10:04 pm : link
In comment 15581384 Eric on Li said:
Quote:

i'd be careful with this new crop of insiders that have popped up around this search which ended up with the 2 overwhelming favorites getting hired. maybe they are really plugged in and this is their breakout but more likely not.

This is true for Thompson but Schultz is a reputable reporter who has broke news for years.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/28/2022 10:05 pm : link
As a man who donated to Obama in '08 & '12, HRC in '16, & Joe in '20...

Just hire best candidate regardless of race.
RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
lawguy9801 : 1/28/2022 10:07 pm : link
In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:
Quote:
In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.


So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.
RE: So which minority candidate wants to participate in a sham interview?  
DonnieD89 : 1/28/2022 10:09 pm : link
In comment 15581408 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
It must feel very insulting to be asked at this point.


I agree. It forces someone to waste their time. I do get the intent, due to lack of minorities holding higher positions in the league. But, to be used as a steppingstone to help pre-determined candidate is repulsive. Not to make light of the fact that the leading candidate is a white candidate. I really despise this charade.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/28/2022 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15581416 Snablats said:
Quote:



And most of those players make enough money that they dont have to work again if they dont want to. How many African-Americans go into coaching compared to how many whites go into coaching? How many ex-NFL players go into coaching? Most coaches never made it to the NFL as players


I do think you're seeing more ex-players make their way into the coaching and management side of things than before.

Those kinds of changes are measured in decades.

Look, the NFL decides who gets jobs in large part on relationships and word of mouth.

The last time John Mara needed a head coach he called Belichick. The last time he needed a GM he called Accorsi.

Schoen got Daboll hired because he knew him well. Schoen will eventually hire an assistant GM who he knows well and worked with before.

Look how many coaches in college and in the NFL get work simply because they worked for Belichick and Nick Saban.

It's a networking game. It's never been just an open and level playing field meritocracy.
I just read this entire thread  
sphinx : 1/28/2022 10:11 pm : link
and have no idea where the Giants stand. Can someone please summarize?
You hope to get to a place where you  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/28/2022 10:11 pm : link
Don’t need the rule. To me it is more important to prepare more minority’s to succeed in coordinator and HC positions. I’d research that and focus on correct ing any trends then just look to throw numbers at a rule. Throwing numbers leads to high attrition which hurts the rules goal.

One trend is I think some people just don’t know what to screen for. I’d also challenge the Mike Tomlin’s of the leagues who have had success to develop the next Tomlin. That’s what legacy coaches have done.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If correct the  
adamg : 1/28/2022 10:13 pm : link
In comment 15581396 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:

You replied to yourself their...not sure the reason...

But yeah, however all this Rooney stuff pans out, I think Dorsey should be the 1st choice based on his QB background for our current/future QB development needs.


Just thinking "out loud"...
RE: ...  
shocktheworld : 1/28/2022 10:33 pm : link
In comment 15581424 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
As a man who donated to Obama in '08 & '12, HRC in '16, & Joe in '20...

Just hire best candidate regardless of race.


we get it...you make bad decisions with money, lets stick to football...hahah jk!
These are also extremely important hires  
Simms11 : 1/28/2022 10:37 pm : link
and should not be rushed either.
RE: ...  
Since1976 : 1/28/2022 10:37 pm : link
In comment 15581424 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
As a man who donated to Obama in '08 & '12, HRC in '16, & Joe in '20...

Just hire best candidate regardless of race.


Just as I was wondering “could someone possibly turn this thread political?” Congrats, you win !
How ridiculous is this rule?  
Silver Spoon : 1/28/2022 10:37 pm : link
Everyone knows who they want, yet this charade must continue?
RE: oh crap  
montanagiant : 1/28/2022 10:38 pm : link
In comment 15581383 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Doug Rush
@TheDougRush
· 13m
Per the Rooney Rule:

The Giants are required to interview at least one outside candidate for a vacant coordinator position, and in this case, the offensive coordinator position.

They wouldn’t have to interview anyone if Patrick Graham is retained as defensive coordinator.

Would keeping Graham negate the outside the organization clause of the Rooney Rule?
RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Giants73 : 1/28/2022 10:38 pm : link
In comment 15581374 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15581366 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.



There's one Black head coach in a league that's 70% Black...


There’s 1 white RB and 0 white CBs in a league that’s in a country that is 60% white; League is 70% black in a country that is 60% white; logic goes both ways. Best candidate should get the job regardless of skin color. If the owners want to interview one person they shouldn’t have to go through this song and dance.
RE: I’ll  
FStubbs : 1/28/2022 10:39 pm : link
In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:
Quote:
Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.


This is most definitely not true which is why the rule exists.
RE: What would happen if  
montanagiant : 1/28/2022 10:41 pm : link
In comment 15581385 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Knowing that they are intent on hiring Dorsey the Giants can't even convince a minority candidate to interview because they don't want to participate in a sham?

You would not have a problem at all of finding a position coach to interview for it even if they know they don't have a shot. Just the fact they got an interview bumps that persons name immensely for the future
Rooney rule  
bluepepper : 1/28/2022 10:41 pm : link
did not prevent NYG from hiring the white guy they targeted for GM nor the white guy they targeted for HC. So why think it will prevent NYG from hiring the white guy they apparently want for OC?
why would Buffalo not have to also  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/28/2022 10:51 pm : link
follow the Rooney Rule?
The Rooney  
Shady Lurker : 1/28/2022 10:53 pm : link
rule is insulting and sad. If you think there aren't more black coaches because racism, then name the racist owners and GMs driving that and let them answer to it
RE: Rooney rule  
BlackLight : 1/28/2022 10:59 pm : link
In comment 15581477 bluepepper said:
Quote:
did not prevent NYG from hiring the white guy they targeted for GM nor the white guy they targeted for HC. So why think it will prevent NYG from hiring the white guy they apparently want for OC?


The rule obviously wouldn't. The extra time gifted to Buffalo to make Dorsey a Godfather offer is what has people bugging out.
Shouldn't they have tried to fulfill the rule already?  
Eli Wilson : 1/28/2022 11:00 pm : link
Seems like poor planning on their part
exactly, how do you feel these black coaches feel knowing  
gtt350 : 1/28/2022 11:01 pm : link
they are tokens. totally insulting and wrong
RE: Shouldn't they have tried to fulfill the rule already?  
Jay on the Island : 1/28/2022 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15581514 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
Seems like poor planning on their part

How would they have done that before Daboll was hired?
RE: exactly, how do you feel these black coaches feel knowing  
Giantimistic : 1/28/2022 11:14 pm : link
In comment 15581517 gtt350 said:
Quote:
they are tokens. totally insulting and wrong


They may not feel good, but some may use it as an opportunity never the less.

Sometimes the act of interviewing and going through the process is helpful for future interviews. A candidate could look at it as a mock interview, while also acknowledging the sham.

They could also look at it as a chance to raise their profile. For example, a candidate goes in for the interview and absolutely kills it. The Giants then go with Dorsey. Dorsey has a great year and gets a HC job, and the Giants are back to looking for a new OC. The first choice, may be the candidate that would not have been considered before if they didn't take the interview.

I am not saying this is the case or that it is right or that I like how this is playing out, but I am sure that there are some candidates that would take the opportunity to raise their profile. Being interviewed could put the candidate on other's radars.
RE: RE: ...  
HewlettGiant : 1/28/2022 11:15 pm : link
In comment 15581460 shocktheworld said:
Quote:
In comment 15581424 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


As a man who donated to Obama in '08 & '12, HRC in '16, & Joe in '20...

Just hire best candidate regardless of race.



we get it...you make bad decisions with money, lets stick to football...hahah jk!


This is like...but some of my best friends are black........
Enough already...hire the best candidate regardless of race...we had Jerry Reese....we hae had many black coordinators....it is enough already....stop the madness.
If we felt Graham or Flores or any minority would lead us out of the wilderness,,,,,,I know the Mara's would sign up.......
The purpose of the Rooney rule is evident  
Jay on the Island : 1/28/2022 11:15 pm : link
Coaches/execs are given a chance to impress a team that they might not have had previously. They also receiving valuable experience preparing for future interviews which will help them land a job.

Unfortunately, this is one of the rare instances where the rule is unnecessary as they already know who they want to hire. Now they will conduct a sham interview which will probably bring criticism from certain members of the media.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Giantimistic : 1/28/2022 11:18 pm : link
In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.


To play some devils advocate, do white people feel insulted if they get into school because they are a legacy or get a job because their parent knows the boss at a company--our is that just considered networking.
Will  
HewlettGiant : 1/28/2022 11:20 pm : link
Never be dismissed from being an NFL ref despite being substandard?

See Ron Tobert is good..he gets the Super Bowl, but Jerome Boger is not.....so dismiss him, but no because he has a certain protection.....

This is not what equality is supposed to be.

This country is turning into shit


RE: exactly, how do you feel these black coaches feel knowing  
BlackLight : 1/28/2022 11:23 pm : link
In comment 15581517 gtt350 said:
Quote:
they are tokens. totally insulting and wrong


Some coaches may feel that way, but unless the owners and GMs they meet with really are bigots, these are actually invaluable opportunities. When you show up and crush interview, even as a token candidate, people remember. And maybe you don't get that job, but now you're on somebody's radar as a quality candidate for a future opening. And if nothing else, you're getting practice in high-stakes interviews which aren't easy to prepare for.
RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
ZoneXDOA : 1/28/2022 11:24 pm : link
In comment 15581374 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15581366 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.



There's one Black head coach in a league that's 70% Black...

^^^^This!
...  
battttles : 1/28/2022 11:26 pm : link
a lot of old white guys in this thread sure are certain they know what's best for the advancement of minorities and equality in a league with 0 black owners and 1 black head coach.

just try, for one second, taking a step back and considering your perspective is not accurate

this is shameful, from Eric on down
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
HewlettGiant : 1/28/2022 11:28 pm : link
In comment 15581556 Giantimistic said:
Quote:
In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.



To play some devils advocate, do white people feel insulted if they get into school because they are a legacy or get a job because their parent knows the boss at a company--our is that just considered networking.



Best candidate for the job regardless of race.....how many years will it take to make up for past wrongs....I mean that seriously? Does anyone here begrudge Schoen from choosing Daboll over a black candidate?
Does anyone think he chose not to consider a prospective guy because of race?

Really?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
battttles : 1/28/2022 11:33 pm : link
In comment 15581576 HewlettGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15581556 Giantimistic said:


Quote:


In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.



To play some devils advocate, do white people feel insulted if they get into school because they are a legacy or get a job because their parent knows the boss at a company--our is that just considered networking.




Best candidate for the job regardless of race.....how many years will it take to make up for past wrongs....I mean that seriously? Does anyone here begrudge Schoen from choosing Daboll over a black candidate?
Does anyone think he chose not to consider a prospective guy because of race?

Really?


how many years will it take?!

slavery lasted 400 years...
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
ZoneXDOA : 1/28/2022 11:42 pm : link
In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.


Would be great if we didn’t need any of that. But back when affirmative action was passed, a black man couldn’t get an interview for any decent job. It was necessary then and it continues to be necessary until we can look each other dead in the eye and say, with a straight face “Black people are treated equally in America”
Yeah, I’m sure none of US would deny someone a job based on skin color. But how about some of these club owners who are still around from a time when they didn’t even let black people on the team? Or are part of the family? We don’t know what’s in people’s hearts. We can’t trust them all sight unseen. We CAN trust that there is a rule that they must follow, though. I’m fine with a potential employer being forced to give me an opportunity to impress them.
What if they bring in a candidate to fulfill the Rooney Rule and he just blows everyone away? What happens then?
I like the intention, but the actual practice is stupid  
Anakim : 1/28/2022 11:45 pm : link
So the Giants are going to host a guy with no intention of hiring him as OC. Seems like a waste of everyone's time, granted they could say they're interviewing him for OC, but are actually interviewing him for some other positional job.


But still
RE: I like the intention, but the actual practice is stupid  
Big Al : 1/28/2022 11:53 pm : link
In comment 15581595 Anakim said:
Quote:
So the Giants are going to host a guy with no intention of hiring him as OC. Seems like a waste of everyone's time, granted they could say they're interviewing him for OC, but are actually interviewing him for some other positional job.


But still
You sound like an old White guy.
RE: ...  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/28/2022 11:57 pm : link
In comment 15581424 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
As a man who donated to Obama in '08 & '12, HRC in '16, & Joe in '20...

Just hire best candidate regardless of race.


Huh? You donated to Joe? What’s your point?
RE: ...  
Snablats : 1/28/2022 11:58 pm : link
In comment 15581573 battttles said:
Quote:
a lot of old white guys in this thread sure are certain they know what's best for the advancement of minorities and equality in a league with 0 black owners and 1 black head coach.

just try, for one second, taking a step back and considering your perspective is not accurate

this is shameful, from Eric on down

Im not claiming to know how to advance minorities, but what black investors were turned down from buying a team? I already addressed the head coaching - the facts are that most NFL players dont go into coaching, the facts are that most coaches didnt make it to the NFL, and perhaps its that more white people go into football coaching than black people
I feel like I am missing something on this  
NY-Fan : 1/29/2022 12:10 am : link
There have already been several GM hires along with new head coaches. Did all these other teams follow the Rooney rule? Seems like some of those positions were filled pretty fast.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
TroyArchersGhost : 1/29/2022 2:42 am : link
In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.

S.Ct. just decided to take an affirmative action case against Harvard.
RE: RE: I’ll  
Milton : 1/29/2022 5:28 am : link
In comment 15581373 Giantimistic said:
Quote:

That being said, in this case not sure who wants to interview when the choice is predetermined
It would still be in their interest. If Daniel Jones is League MVP and the Giants win the Super Bowl next year, they could wind up losing their OC to a head coaching position; and suddenly that black candidate who they went through the motions on this year could be a legit contender next year.
RE: So which minority candidate wants to participate in a sham interview?  
Mayo2JZ : 1/29/2022 5:49 am : link
In comment 15581408 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
It must feel very insulting to be asked at this point.


This! I think the Rooney Rule, in theory, is great but the execution can be quite demeaning.
RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Mayo2JZ : 1/29/2022 5:57 am : link
In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:
Quote:
In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.


But here is the rub Bob. Yes, the Rooney Rule makes you consider other candidates but you end up HAVING to consider them because it is a rule NOT because they're qualified. In the end it really does a disservice to black candidates and that's very unfortunate because most people see right through it especially the minority candidates IMHO
RE: The purpose of the Rooney rule is evident  
Mayo2JZ : 1/29/2022 6:07 am : link
In comment 15581551 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Coaches/execs are given a chance to impress a team that they might not have had previously. They also receiving valuable experience preparing for future interviews which will help them land a job.

Unfortunately, this is one of the rare instances where the rule is unnecessary as they already know who they want to hire. Now they will conduct a sham interview which will probably bring criticism from certain members of the media.


Outstanding reply Jay
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Mayo2JZ : 1/29/2022 6:13 am : link
In comment 15581592 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 15581428 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581412 Bob from Massachusetts said:


Quote:


In comment 15581390 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



+1



This sounds good, but unfortunately it hasn't worked for blacks in football or for women and blacks in many industries, which is why the Rooney rule was created. Unfortunately it probably doesn't work very well either, which is why there are so few black coaches. The implication in what you say is there are not qualified candidates who are black, but there aren't enough coaching candidates because there aren't enough coordinators who are black, etc. But at least the Rooney rule makes people consider other candidates.

We've seen the lack of blacks at quarterback improve a bit, but there's a long way to go in coaching. I don't have a better solution but I think there's probably a lot of blacks who would be really good coordinators and head coaches out there.



So when does it end? Affirmative action in some form or another has been around in the business and academic worlds now for just about half a century. Personally, if I were black, I’d feel insulted at the notion that I needed a special accommodation to get hired for a job or get accepted to a school.



Would be great if we didn’t need any of that. But back when affirmative action was passed, a black man couldn’t get an interview for any decent job. It was necessary then and it continues to be necessary until we can look each other dead in the eye and say, with a straight face “Black people are treated equally in America”
Yeah, I’m sure none of US would deny someone a job based on skin color. But how about some of these club owners who are still around from a time when they didn’t even let black people on the team? Or are part of the family? We don’t know what’s in people’s hearts. We can’t trust them all sight unseen. We CAN trust that there is a rule that they must follow, though. I’m fine with a potential employer being forced to give me an opportunity to impress them.
What if they bring in a candidate to fulfill the Rooney Rule and he just blows everyone away? What happens then?


His name is Mike Tomlin
2!?  
State Your Name : 1/29/2022 6:28 am : link
2?!

F’ing ponderous.
I don't buy the notion  
Football Giants : 1/29/2022 6:48 am : link
That the Rooney rule gives minorities 'invaluable' interview experience or opportunity. It's not a real opportunity when the team has a hard on for a white candidate like the Giants do with Dorsey. It's insulting and demeaning.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
section125 : 1/29/2022 7:09 am : link
In comment 15581581 battttles said:
Quote:



how many years will it take?!

slavery lasted 400 years...


You only off by a few thousand years and it still exists in the Middle East and China.
I feel like  
PakistanPete : 1/29/2022 7:14 am : link
what is often lost in these discussions concerning the Rooney Rule is the value it has in helping minorities expand their networks.

The whole notion that it is embarrassing is a very white thing to say, and I say this as a gorgeous white man.

Finally, people keep saying the Giants have to do A and do B and they do not.

They can eat the fine, which is what I think the Lions did when they hired Mariucci.
Affirmative Action  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/29/2022 7:21 am : link
The spirit of it well intentioned. The execution can make the situation worse. From what I have seen you run into issues when you compromise standards to achieve your goal. This raises the potential for substandard performance which creates a bigger problem. I found the issue much bigger in government sectors than in the public and private company ones.

The NFL should consider partnering with college football as they have many of the same issues. The college game has about 120 division 1 programs, which is a much higher opportunity. I'd consider two things.

1. Coaches who desire becoming a HC to look to the college game where they can serve as coordinators faster and even become HC's. Many NFL HC's who had success have had college HC or coordinator experience before getting a NFL HC'ing job.

2. Work with the better HC's and encourage them to help identify and mentor future minority coordinator/HC candidates. Behind a good HC most times are some very influential mentors. The better prepared a minority candidate is the more likely they will succeed. This will have a carry over impact to more opportunities imv.
 
ryanmkeane : 1/29/2022 7:31 am : link
I wanted Flores, but Daboll getting Dorsey and possibly Martindale would be awesome. The staff is almost as important as the head coach. Would be home run hires.
RE: So which minority candidate wants to participate in a sham interview?  
UConn4523 : 1/29/2022 8:17 am : link
In comment 15581408 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
It must feel very insulting to be asked at this point.


You sure are an expert on this, aren’t you?
While I wish we better as a society and we did not need this rule  
SteelGiant : 1/29/2022 8:27 am : link
The sad truth is we do.

Who is to say Poles may never got the GM job with the Bears because never got the chance to get in front of multiple teams and improve his interviews.

The Giants may not have interviewed Poles and just went after Schoen and Peters. Poles may not get the practice of meeting NFL owners and answering important questions from ownership. Nerves and Anxiety could ruin opportunities like that and its not something you can get rid of without going through the process.

Being possibly forced through the Giants interview process and learning the types of questions and HOW they are asked. This opportunity could have given him Real Life feedback for the next time around. It allows a candidate to reflect how they might have handled a question differently if the chance rises again. Maybe by going through the Giants interview allowed Poles to nail the interview with the Bears.

White executives were getting more chances and able to learn more about the process. This is a not forcing teams to hire minorities but it is opening the door to give them the valuable experience of the process.
RE: ...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/29/2022 9:05 am : link
In comment 15581573 battttles said:
Quote:
a lot of old white guys in this thread sure are certain they know what's best for the advancement of minorities and equality in a league with 0 black owners and 1 black head coach.

just try, for one second, taking a step back and considering your perspective is not accurate

this is shameful, from Eric on down


Oh fuck off.

First of all, what did I say in this thread that is offensive?

Second of all, the Rooney Rule is a charade and everyone knows it. It doesn't move the needle at all in one direction or the other. But keep playing these games if it makes you feel better and somehow reduce some weird guilt you have.
RE: RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 1/29/2022 9:21 am : link
In comment 15581811 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15581573 battttles said:


Quote:


a lot of old white guys in this thread sure are certain they know what's best for the advancement of minorities and equality in a league with 0 black owners and 1 black head coach.

just try, for one second, taking a step back and considering your perspective is not accurate

this is shameful, from Eric on down



Oh fuck off.

First of all, what did I say in this thread that is offensive?

Second of all, the Rooney Rule is a charade and everyone knows it. It doesn't move the needle at all in one direction or the other. But keep playing these games if it makes you feel better and somehow reduce some weird guilt you have.

Exactly. This clown show poster gets to comfortably ridicule “old white guys” for thinking a rule is a sham and insulting to minorities while he ignores the facts slapping him right in the face. Those facts are, there are less black HCs in the league now than there were before they instituted the rule. That’s really some advancement there!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Big Al : 1/29/2022 9:37 am : link
In comment 15581722 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15581581 battttles said:


Quote:





how many years will it take?!

slavery lasted 400 years...



You only off by a few thousand years and it still exists in the Middle East and China.
I am curious about where the specific number 400 comes from and the specific years, Just a stupid Old White guy wanting to be educated .
RE: ...  
joe48 : 1/29/2022 9:45 am : link
In comment 15581573 battttles said:
Quote:
a lot of old white guys in this thread sure are certain they know what's best for the advancement of minorities and equality in a league with 0 black owners and 1 black head coach.

just try, for one second, taking a step back and considering your perspective is not accurate

this is shameful, from Eric on down

As an old guy who started his first job in 1970 working for a Fortune 50 company that had an affirmative action plan l can tell you my experience. There were some job openings that had to be filled with a minority hire regardless of qualifications. What I saw back then was it opened opportunity for people. Over 50 years later the same arguments are being made. I believe there has been progress and I also think NFL owners are successful and competitive. Hiring the best candidate works best regardless of race.
There’s massive advancement, actually  
UConn4523 : 1/29/2022 9:46 am : link
the rule has worked, it’s opened up doors that were formerly completely shut or maybe ajar if lucky.
It seems like there are two main  
pjcas18 : 1/29/2022 9:52 am : link
feeder systems for NFL head coaches.

NCAA coaches (and sometimes coordinators, but mostly coaches) and NFL Coordinators.

If you believe there has to be more minority head coaches it seems like if you "fix" those two feeder systems then the NFL head coach disparity just fixes itself.

GM is trickier but also more appropriately solvable at the source(s), not the destination IMO.

policies at the destination are window dressing IMO. as evidenced by the tweet in the OP which basically says "we need to hurry up and interview two black guys so we can officially hire the white guy we have already decided to hire"


RE: There’s massive advancement, actually  
BigBlueShock : 1/29/2022 9:52 am : link
In comment 15581877 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
the rule has worked, it’s opened up doors that were formerly completely shut or maybe ajar if lucky.

No. It hasn’t worked. As I said, there are less black HCs now than before. Your confusing the intent of the rule with actual progress. Minorities getting interviewed is great. But they still aren’t getting hired. Sure, you can claim the doors are now opened if that’s makes you feel better. But the fact is the open doors to this point have been a mirage and not many are actually getting through those “open doors”.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
Bill in UT : 1/29/2022 10:00 am : link
In comment 15581556 Giantimistic said:
Quote:


To play some devils advocate, do white people feel insulted if they get into school because they are a legacy or get a job because their parent knows the boss at a company--our is that just considered networking.


If the couldn't get the position on merit alone, I think they would feel fortunate. But at the same time, they would have to feel somewhat diminished. Maybe a person's degree of self-awareness and self-value enter into it also.
The rule isn’t just for head coaches  
UConn4523 : 1/29/2022 10:03 am : link
and a year by year ebb and flow of jobs that typically are re-opened every 2-3 years for poor performance is a poor indicator of anything regarding hiring. More than half the league since the rule was implemented has had a minority HC, some teams several times. In the history of the league prior I believe that number was less than 10 total instances/individuals.

Is it working the way you think it should? Debatable. Does it get taken advantage of or implemented poorly in certain occasions? Yes, like most things in life. Has it worked? Yes.
The other really insulting feature of the Rooney Rule and AA more  
lawguy9801 : 1/29/2022 10:09 am : link
generally is the assumption that all white people are part of some club that would purposely exclude black people if given the chance. That was true in, say, Mississipp in 1955. Thankfully, though, we have progressed very far since then.

And I sure could have used this “white people club” card when I was looking for a job after graduation 20-plus years ago - my family didnt have a ton of money growing up and I had no “connections,” and it took me almost a year to find something permanent.

Now, in the corporate world, if anything there is overt and conscious discrimination against white people, and being a white male is actually a disadvantage in many hiring and other situations. Headhunters having lower requirements for “diverse” candidates….general counsel telling you to your face you are less likely to be hired because of a preference for a minority or female attorney….having a client pull business from the firm because they are unsatisfied with the percentage of minorities working on their matters (regardless of the high quality of work performed). Fuck all of this with a rusty 10-foot pole.
Systemic racism  
PakistanPete : 1/29/2022 10:44 am : link
does not require a "white people club."

But in the case of the NFL, it very much is as good ol' boy club. Some of the owners have said as much.
RE: Systemic racism  
eli4life : 1/29/2022 10:47 am : link
In comment 15582004 PakistanPete said:
Quote:
does not require a "white people club."

But in the case of the NFL, it very much is as good ol' boy club. Some of the owners have said as much.


And hate to say it but it will change when some of these owners start dying off.
RE: RE: Systemic racism  
Big Al : 1/29/2022 11:11 am : link
In comment 15582008 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 15582004 PakistanPete said:


Quote:


does not require a "white people club."

But in the case of the NFL, it very much is as good ol' boy club. Some of the owners have said as much.



And hate to say it but it will change when some of these owners start dying off.
A bunch of them already have.
RE: Systemic racism  
joe48 : 1/29/2022 7:06 pm : link
In comment 15582004 PakistanPete said:
Quote:
does not require a "white people club."

But in the case of the NFL, it very much is as good ol' boy club. Some of the owners have said as much.

How do you know that ? Owners want to win. They are competitive. Give the job to the best qualified.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’ll  
k2tampa : 1/30/2022 4:02 pm : link
In comment 15581571 ZoneXDOA said:
Quote:
In comment 15581374 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15581366 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15581359 Straw Hat said:


Quote:


Get bombarded here, but this rooney rule stuff is ridiculous. Best man should get the job. If youre good, youre gonna get looks wether you are white, black, or purple.



I agree. In the NFL it doesn't make much sense. These teams all just want to win and I think have pretty good diversity just organically.



There's one Black head coach in a league that's 70% Black...


^^^^This!


And four years ago there were eight. Coaches get hired to get fired. There was a stretch of 6, 7, 6, 7, 6, 7, 8, 4, 6, before the 8 in 2017.

Coaching is different than playing. Look at how many top MLB managers were/are backup catchers who rarely played during a short (if any at all) major league career.

You can't legislate out racism. You are still talking about a group of mostly multimillionaire or billionaire white guys, many who probably have had very little contact with minorities other than owner to player.
RE: RE: Systemic racism  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/30/2022 4:16 pm : link
In comment 15582877 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 15582004 PakistanPete said:


Quote:


does not require a "white people club."

But in the case of the NFL, it very much is as good ol' boy club. Some of the owners have said as much.


How do you know that ? Owners want to win. They are competitive. Give the job to the best qualified.


The last time the Giants needed a GM they made exactly one exploratory phone call and hired a former employee. It was a foregone conclusion they wanted Gettleman. Nothing competitive about it. "Best qualified" and "most comfortable to ownership" are often tied at the hip.
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