Here's the list:
10-Kobe.
9-Duncan.
8-Shaq.
7-Larry.
6-Wilt.
5-Magic.
4-Russell.
3-Kareem.
2-LBJ.
1-MJ.
Thoughts on this top 10? At first glance, it looks pretty solid to me. I might put TD ahead of Shaq, but I very well could be in the minority on that one. Hakeem-who I think is criminally underrated-clocks in @ 11.
I know Stan will have Magic #1. We get it.
Shaq is interesting because he was just bigger than everyone and benefited from coaching and Kobe. Is he really one of the top 10 all time?
Chamberlain averaged 30.1 points, 4.4 assists & 22.9 rebounds.
Jordan averaged 30.1 points, 5.3 assists, 6.2 rebounds.
Where does Stephen Curry fit 3 rings and arguably the greatest shooter of all time.
Wilt was the most dominant score of all-time.
MJ will always be #1 to me because of how much of a big game player he was. Nobody else you want on your team in a game 7.
Oscar was #12. Elgin was #23, behind Malone, KG, The Admiral, Dirk, & Chuck. I'd put him above all of them.
Sorry Nike and ESPN, I ain't buying your hype. Find some other suckers.
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Yeah, Okay.
Oscar was #12. Elgin was #23, behind Malone, KG, The Admiral, Dirk, & Chuck. I'd put him above all of them.
Charles Barkley has no business ahead of Elgin. I struggle with him in the top 50. Is he even top 10 PF of all time?
So their's doesn't match mine. Okay. Done and out.
Lol, Jordan will always be better than LeBron. Better player, better sportsman, and didn’t drag politics into his path to winning championships. He also didn’t ditch Chicago to team up with a group of superstars to win his titles.
Okay top 50 might be a stretch but I think he gets more credit because he was only 6'6 and his personality added to his rank.
2. Magic
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Lebron
6. Russell
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Duncan
2. Magic
3. Wilt
4. Kareem
5. Lebron
6. Russell
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. Bird
10. Duncan
I heard one writer say the only person who could plausibly be #1 over MJ is Magic, because he's the only player in the history of the NBA that could have had a hall of fame career at all 5 positions.
If Hakeem played with a Kobe/Wade-type player earlier in hsi career, we are talking 4 rings. Oscar was Lebron before 40 years prior.
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You're kidding about Chuck right? Not top 50? Come on.
Okay top 50 might be a stretch but I think he gets more credit because he was only 6'6 and his personality added to his rank.
larry, I think you're seriously underestimating Barkley. MVP. 5X All NBA 1st team. 5X All NBA Second Team. He was a machine. If Paxton doesn't make that 3 in Game 6, Suns are hosting Bulls Game 7 & who knows...perhaps Phoenix wins? I wouldn't bet against MJ in that scenario, but of the Finals MJ played, that was the one I thought he could have lost. I never doubted MJ in those Jazz Finals.
Duncan won 5 championships. 2 of them - maybe even 3 - were on teams where no other players on the team would appear on a top 50 list or perhaps even a top 100 list.
LBJ is great, but the Magic Man revolutionized basketball. I've seen a floor general like him. That Laker fast break - "Show Time" - was a thing of beauty.
So I am putting the Magic Man #2.
And I don't care what anyone says, I was very young back in the '80s, but Larry Bird is the GREATEST shooter I have ever seen. I don't care if Curry can shoot 35 footers. Bird could have done the same thing if that was required. He was as clutch as they came.
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Great player for sure, but he was dependent on someone getting him the ball. Guys like MJ, Magic, LBJ, Bird could get their own shots. In my eyes, that is a differentiator.
GOAT BIGs: Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Moses
GOAT WINGs: Jordan, LeBron, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Oscar, West, Dr. J
That's my list in order for both in terms of guys who have an argument for the Top 10. I think Durant/Curry/Giannis all have a shot to get on that level at the end of their careers, although KD is closest as of now.
I think the Top 4 in NBA history is pretty clear cut, Russell/Kareem/Jordan/LeBron are the Mt. Rushmore of the sport.
Russell is the most impactful athlete in team sports history due to his revolutionary defense. Kareem's career from HS through the pros is 2nd to none, he's arguably the best at all 3 HS/College/Pros levels in basketball history. MJ is MJ, the best overall player in league history all things considered. LeBron's all-around game and athleticism at his PF size is unlike anything else in league history, no one's ever checked more boxes.
I do think Wilt could've been the unquestioned GOAT in not only NBA history but in probably the history of all recorded sports. He's the most freakish human who ever existed. He cared more about stats and the lifestyle than he did about winning until later in his career. He's like in a special tier by himself for me after that top 4.
Magic/Bird are the best forward sized players after LeBron. I think Bird peaked higher than Magic but Magic was outlasting him and still dominant when the HIV situation happened. Magic had become an insanely dominant post player in his later years, his style was built to last. I think if the HIV stuff doesn't happen, Magic could've challenged MJ/LeBron as best perimeter player.
My hot take is that Kareem is actually the greatest player of all time, not MJ or LBJ or Wilt.
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He is arguably the greatest player of all time. He could not be defended.
My hot take is that Kareem is actually the greatest player of all time, not MJ or LBJ or Wilt.
I'm sort of with you. For me it's close between MJ and Jabbar. But I think Jabbar is terribly underrated. When the sky hook was working it was impossible to defend. The scoring record and 6 MVP awards attest to that. He was so good for so long.
As a Laker fan who watched every game of that era, I think 1999-2002 Shaq was completely unstoppable force. To be that powerful and have that agility was simply incredible.
He didn’t have as many great years as MJ or Lebron or Wilt or Kareem or even Duncan, but when he was on tippy top of his game he took over in a way I’ve never seen before or since. (Reminiscent of the year Barry Bonds took that insane number of walks because no one would dare pitch to him.)
As for The Great Fundamental...
David Robinson got hurt the year before he was drafted...that team tanked and won the lottery and somehow luckboxed into the twin towers.
Back then, The Admiral was a dominant center, I mean truly great, and Duncan was Robin to Robinson's Batman. Popovich lucked himself into a dominant team, because he got Robinson and Duncan together because of injury, to make no mention of Sean Elliott.
It's debatable that David Robinson or Duncan was a greater player. But for my money, Olajuwon was greater than them both.
To me, Wilt, Russell, Kareem and Shaq are Hakeem's peers. I was never a Rockets fan but having seen all but Wilt and Russell play in my life, if I had to pick a center in their prime, it would probably be Hakeem.
The kids won't know. He was an artist. Shaq was a bull, but I could make the argument Olajuwon was better as a complete player.
As for Lebron, he's closer to 5th all-time than he is to MJ.
The debate is stupid, Lebron will never be as great as His Airness. It's not about stats, you simply just had to see each play in their primes. It was all about winning titles with MJ. He could not be denied. The debate between MJ and Lebron is like the debate between Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Both objectively great. Both champions.
But MJ had something else that drove him to greater heights as a champion. And to be honest, MJ could've easily won 8 championships in a row, in an era of great parity and all-time great basketball players.
Without MJ, I believe Stockton and Malone would've bagged at least 2 or 3 titles.
If Malone gets those 2 rings, the argument is should he be higher than Duncan. Malone the individual player could stand among this top 10.
Stockton was amazing as well. Not top 10, but probably top 20. If we're talking top 5 points he's in there.
Sorry Nike and ESPN, I ain't buying your hype. Find some other suckers.
You're a nutcase, take off the L.A. blinders.
The Russell/Wilt games against each other were awesome.
I think the Athletic's list put too much importance on championships and not enough importance on great individual players, especially guards, who could play in any era.
My top 10 in order would be:
Kareem
Wilt
MJ
Magic
Bird
Russell
Oscar
Lebron
Dr. J
Kobe
My next 10 in order would be Jerry West, Bob Cousy, Isiah Thomas, Tiny Archibald, Pete Maravich, Connie Hawkins, Allen Iverson, John Stockton, Bill Walton, Elgin Baylor.
Connie Hawkins isn't on the top 75 list and Carmelo Anthony is? That's just wrong.
Jordan, Magic, Oscar, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Bird, LeBron, Kobe, Olajuwon
Hakeem makes my list and I think he is criminally underrated. In my opinion he is the most skilled big man ever when it came to his offensive game. On top of that he was a dominant defender. One of the best players I've ever seen.
Awful case of recency bias.
I would have him over Shaq and maybe even top 5. He was close to a one man dynasty for 20 years. Truly an all time great player.
I think a good debate is how the best "modern" big man is between Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem. I think its close but I take Duncan but also view all of them a top 10 all time.
The 03 Spurs he had the burned out shell of David Robinson. The 14 Spurs he had a still green Kawhi Leonard.
Most of the other guys on these lists that had dynasties had multiple players in the top 50. Duncan effectively had one such player for his first title (and even then, one of the things people pointed out back then was that Robinson showed rare humility by conceding the leading role on the team to Duncan as Duncan was better). Unless you argue Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili were top 50 players all time as well (I'm not even sure they'd make a top 100 list - though Ginobili would for international/Olympics play where he was a different player entirely), you have to give Duncan his due.
Awful case of recency bias.
Insane recency bias. I think his team has made one conference finals and, if I'm not mistaken, they did not win a game. When they do another list in 25 years he will not be on it unless he finds some success.
I would have him over Shaq and maybe even top 5. He was close to a one man dynasty for 20 years. Truly an all time great player.
I think a good debate is how the best "modern" big man is between Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem. I think its close but I take Duncan but also view all of them a top 10 all time.
I agree and its a more fun debate that the constant Jordan/LeBron stuff.
IMO Duncan is the #1 PF of all time and in terms of big men overall, probably no worse than 3rd or 4th (Wilt, Kareem, Russell maybe Shaq but definitely debatable).
He's probably my favorite player post-Jordan.