I don’t know what his value is, but I just don’t see this ending well. After all the drama of last season plus the durability concerns, for him not to show up yesterday is frustrating.
I’d call up Kansas City and see what they would offer. Toney and a bad team concerns me. I never loved the pick, it felt forced to try to bring in weapons for Jones. I think it is worth looking into.
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this.
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
Not for anything, one of these things doesn't fit with the others.
Got Covid twice? Should he wear a scarlet letter for having gotten a virus?
The NFL and the world at large provided common sense approaches to not miss games.
The vast majority of NFL players found a way to not get on the Covid reserve list at all.
No scarlet letter, just practice the common sense most of your co-workers did.
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The guy sucks and he's always injured so trade him because there are a bunch of teams out there looking for a player like that.
LOL it’s like the “Jones is the worst QB in the NFL TRADE HIM NOW” crew
There's always someone who will take a flyer on a reclaimation project.
He's on a cheap deal, no point in trading him right now, you get nothing for him
lets see how he does this year
Well said. Its an organizational problem as well. Its not just the fanbase. How quickly it was alluded to that some of the most productive previous players of the Giants were labelled as problems even including DRC towards the end of his run with the Giants. Other teams don't jettison talent because they don't fit in the mold of their Kentucky Derby owner or their "down in front" fanbase Mr. People on here always making fun of teams like the Cowboys drafting headcases or people who have had run ins with the law. But they consistently have had winning teams the last few years...
Your bed.
Shut the fuck up and produce, this year or the media and fans are going to run you out of town.
The Coughlin Giants had a bunch of guys who did stupid stuff and who won a ring — Toomer, Strahan, Boley, Diehl, McKenzie etc.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
everything is a dumpster fire. no patience, no vision for the future. no desire to work with someone who is different from the version of the ideal player in your mind. just react to everything that happens with the utmost outrage.
if you think that is a blueprint for getting back to a Super Bowl any time soon, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. the sport has evolved past us. it's on us to catch up with the sport, not to force the sport to devolve back to us.
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In comment 15656448 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
OK.
Thanks.
No problem. For someone who is as wrong as often as you are it's presumptuous to accuse other people of being emotional.
You're mistaken.
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
everything is a dumpster fire. no patience, no vision for the future. no desire to work with someone who is different from the version of the ideal player in your mind. just react to everything that happens with the utmost outrage.
if you think that is a blueprint for getting back to a Super Bowl any time soon, I wouldn't hold your breath on that. the sport has evolved past us. it's on us to catch up with the sport, not to force the sport to devolve back to us.
This post describes what's wrong with society today. We keep lowering standards instead of making people rise to the standard they should be held to. Schools are suffering from the same problem. Everyone's afraid to hold people accountable
The Coughlin Giants had a bunch of guys who did stupid stuff and who won a ring — Toomer, Strahan, Boley, Diehl, McKenzie etc.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
Skipping OTAs as a rookie is almost unheard of. Lots of veterans skip voluntary workouts, which I am fine with. KT started his career skipping them and is repeating foolishness that this year.
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In comment 15656374 Dave on the UWS said:
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Everyone should see him for what he is. Last year, while supposedly rehabbing his injury to get on the field, he was also apparently finishing his latest rap album. Never made it on the field, but the album came out within a month of season's end. That's where his focus is: his music career. Football is just a way to pay the bills until he becomes a "star". He will (mostly) do the mandatory stuff, and keep finding injuries so he really doesn't have to play.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
not sure I'm seeing the connection between what Toney chooses to do in his free time (rap) and his value to the organization as a player. unless you think that he skipped team-required rehab workouts to rap? in which case, do you have any proof of that?
lots of players skip voluntary workouts for various reasons. it's not a good look for a young player, but the overreactions are part of the problem with this fanbase.
Skipping OTAs as a rookie is almost unheard of. Lots of veterans skip voluntary workouts, which I am fine with. KT started his career skipping them and is repeating foolishness that this year.
Don’t bother, I remember when people laughed at the scouts that said this kid had red flags and look now. It was only fitting Gettleman overlooked them and Judge had some consultant say he was a good kid in high school to sign off on him. 😂😂😂
Oh boy...
so we have another fairly high 1st round pick who needs the team around him to improve (ala Daniel Jones).
I thought the high 1st round offensive picks are the ones who are supposed to improve the offense.
Jones and Barkley only saw their value diminish with every day that passed. The same is likely to happen with Toney - I expect he'll never be more valuable than he is now.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
suffice to say i have the exact opposite viewpoint, snablats, on the team.
keep holding 2022 players up to that 1986 Giants standard, if that’s how you derive enjoyment as a fan. it won’t help a lick when it comes to winning games though.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
It’s actually the complete opposite concern, Toney doesn’t love football at all
For every kid that never reaches potential and showed problematic signs early and often, there are countless guys that STILL turned into HOF players despite those same early struggles. And you know this is true.
Any scout or football exec that acted short sighted like this would regret it before too long. Sometimes you do have to exhibit patience and work with problematic younger players. Sometimes they aren't worth it.
Bill Belichick and Parcells both won big on the backs of turning some problem players around, and that includes younger players.
I love how easy some of you make this look. It's not that easy.
Because this team is still comprised almost entirely of Gettleman's garbage.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
Uhh...he's a rookie. See him for what he is? Maybe some of you folks should try that for real.
ROOKIE. In a terrible situation.
What the fuck do we have to gain by cutting this guy? The trade is make believe so let's move to the real world part of this discussion.
Nothing to gain by cutting this guy. literally...NOTHING. And we aren't trading him for jack shit so let's move on and hope this guy develops in his 2nd year. Sorry for saying hope, but again, we're living in the real world. That's how shit works with young players.
There must be 20 RBs ahead of barkley and 20 QBs ahead of Jones.
And here is another thing: that shit that worked on your high school team ; work hard ; great attitude that doesn't translate much on elite athlete league like the NFL. Give me a loafer with superstar Super Bowl altering talent any day over some blue collar no talent like Jones any day.
Hard work doesn’t translate to the NFL? Ummm… ok.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
So isn’t the opposite then not awesome?
Nothing Toney’s done is a tragedy. It’s just south of what you’d expect from a first round pick in these circumstances.
If Schoen, is trying to create a culture of " smart and dependable", this guy is like poison in the room.
He's anything but. Get him out of here any way you can. It sends a message you are not screwing around with this mantra.
suffice to say i have the exact opposite viewpoint, snablats, on the team.
keep holding 2022 players up to that 1986 Giants standard, if that’s how you derive enjoyment as a fan. it won’t help a lick when it comes to winning games though.
So holding people accountable for making sure the team comes first and personal stuff come second is not good for winning?
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The league says this is voluntary. The team says this is voluntary. The coach says this is voluntary. The contract says this is voluntary.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
I mean it probably is just not for football related stuff. He’s got a new rap album and merch line to promote
DJ doesn't produce and people want to soften that blow because of his work ethic and character
Toney doesn't produce and people want to ignore the fact that there are legitimate concerns about his work ethic
Newsflash to these groups: if you aren't producing it absolutely makes it way worse if there are questions about your work ethic. And what is also true is having a good work ethic is a plus but if it doesn't translate it matters way less. Also I can't understand for the life of me why people are still making so many excuses for people. We suck because our players don't produce, we aren't going to stop sucking until we have players that do. Is it such a crazy idea to want to clear out the non-producers at fair value to make room for people that could possibly produce?
Some of you are like DG except you are falling in full bloom love with anyone who puts on the Giants uniform and I'm not sure why you can't also see that, that is probably our biggest problem. Mara does that.
Changing the names and faces in the front office and sideline is a good start but they still have to shed all the crap that has been left behind with this roster. Maybe the guy in the OP is shit or he actually gets his shit together and becomes something. Until that happens, he is still Gettleman's pick.
So don't ask why posters are still talking about Getts, Abrams, the past 4 years, etc. Rome is still burning in case some of you chuckleheads are missing this...
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In comment 15656488 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 15656448 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656403 Brown_Hornet said:
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... We really know very little about this guy.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
OK.
Thanks.
No problem. For someone who is as wrong as often as you are it's presumptuous to accuse other people of being emotional.
I'm sorry, I've been wrong?
You're mistaken.
No, he's not. You have been a league leader in wrong.
At least you have stuck around to see the mess left behind from all the bad decisions that you likely felt were good ones. More than I can say for some others...
Changing the names and faces in the front office and sideline is a good start but they still have to shed all the crap that has been left behind with this roster. Maybe the guy in the OP is shit or he actually gets his shit together and becomes something. Until that happens, he is still Gettleman's pick.
So don't ask why posters are still talking about Getts, Abrams, the past 4 years, etc. Rome is still burning in case some of you chuckleheads are missing this...
Because acting like every player brought in by DG is a team cancer or dead weight is nothing short of fucking dumb.
I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Not everything is so black and white.
But you knew that already...
Also, it's time to move on from DG. I know it pains you all, but try it out. Move on. Try it for one day.
Resentment for Rabbit Foot Dave about a roster Dave largely assembled is absolutely fair game.
Kid’s too legit to quite on.
Y’all smoking some illy kind. Trade him? Let the Yung one ball!
A fun player to watch when he is "on" but that style of play(like Saquon) requires a lot of cutting, juking, jumping over folks and that has a halflife of 2 seasons at best
Kid’s too legit to quite on.
Y’all smoking some illy kind. Trade him? Let the Yung one ball!
What the fuck is this?
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The league says this is voluntary. The team says this is voluntary. The coach says this is voluntary. The contract says this is voluntary.
If you want something done, put it in writing.
Voluntary but not voluntary unwritten rules aren't professionalism. It's like playing the "I don't want a gift for my birthday" wife game.
If you want to hold people to a standard, then put the standard in black and white on paper. This is true for everything in the professional world from the board room to legal to manufacturing quality.
Toney is well within his rights not to show up at a voluntary workout, but for a guy who had all kinds of issues finding his way onto the field last summer, and then during the regular season, you can at least understand why some people would question his motivation, can't you?
He's 23 with no wife and no family - I'm sure his calendar is booked solid all thru the spring.
Who knows. We don't know. Players have different family situations. Does he not have a kid? Or any family whatsoever? These are questions we wouldn't want strangers in our personal space about. If I asked you how much you take home per year you'd say none of your business.
I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
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I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
If they decide he isn’t worth the time and future investment, then should shed him sooner vs. later. And as noted above, they can market him for picks.
You really want to align yourself with Gettleman decisions like you did in that post?
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
If they decide he isn’t worth the time and future investment, then should shed him sooner vs. later. And as noted above, they can market him for picks.
You really want to align yourself with Gettleman decisions like you did in that post?
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
But at the end of the day he is a head case.
Good luck with that.
Again, stop comparing Toney to OBJ. OBJ set records his rookie year, Toney ... produces records.
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I guess we should cut our losses now before these malcontent, dead weight losers corrupt the team even more:
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Azeez Ojulari
Xavier McKinney
Haha you were only able to name 4 players worth keeping from a 4-year tenure.
And Thomas was the #4 overall pick in a draft with 4 franchise OTs, meaning it was mathematically impossible for Gettleman to screw the pick up.
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In comment 15658844 AnnapolisMike said:
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And then bring up utterly stupid ideas like trading a first round pick from last year who would have a dead cap hit of 5+M and negative salary cap savings of 2.3M. And you have to pay the guy you traded for if there is a team stupid enough get themselves locked in to his remaining guaranteed contract.
Toney will be a Giant this year and probably next as well.
Why would they have to trade him for a player?
I'd take draft compensation.
And you are still paying to fill his spot, all because the 10 cent head decided to skip a voluntary workout?
It's not just the workouts, it's a troubling pattern that I notice a lot of folks are trying to rationalize their way out of.
A few years ago, I would have been doing the same thing.
I really do not believe Toney is a long-term answer here. Terrible pick? I don't think I'd go that far because he clearly has talent, but I don't see him as a WR1 or a guy you're going to rely on to bring in 90 balls a year.
It's pretty clear that optics don't matter to him and he's just going to march to the beat of his own drum. I was willing to stick my neck out for Beckham because he was at least electric on the football field and was a TD machine his first few years.
Toney hasn't shown anything other than elite change of direction skills.
I just don't see this turning into something fruitful where he's a regular producer here and plays out his rookie deal w/ NYG. I'd love to be wrong, but I certainly wouldn't balk at trading him if a fair offer were out there.