I’d take a serious look at trading Toney

It would be a mistake. Guy posted a near 200 yard game in his first game receiving significant snaps and healthy. People get hurt. People were calling Beckham "Becky" and other dumb things on here when he missed his first 4 games. You don't quit on that level of talent. Giants have one of the slowest teams in the league from what my eyes can tell. He brings a shiftiness and dangerousness this team lacks across the board on the offensive side. He can also be a dangerous return man.

he misses on all three.

if anyone. He is going down diva route.

and he played really well in one game. I think it was a bad pick at the time.

Have the most to say about something.

You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.

But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...

it’s the first day of voluntary workouts. Maybe he had a legit excuse, who knows. Daboll has mentioned a few times he’s been in contact with him over the past couple months.

Let’s see him with a real, modern, offensive staff that knows how to use different types of offensive weapons before writing him off.

It's a simple rule. Trading Toney now would be a dump after a 1st round investment just 1 year ago. I'd be surprised if they did and I don't think they should unless you think his value will only go down.

I know Daboll said that he wasnt saying who was there or wasnt

In comment 15656255 EricJ said:

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and he played really well in one game. I think it was a bad pick at the time.

He opened the next game like gangbusters too against the Rams. I think he had 3 catches for 35/40 yards on the opening drive before leaving the game injured. He's a weapon and is going to be REALLY good.

In comment 15656245 OBJ_AllDay said:

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It would be a mistake. Guy posted a near 200 yard game in his first game receiving significant snaps and healthy. People get hurt. People were calling Beckham "Becky" and other dumb things on here when he missed his first 4 games. You don't quit on that level of talent. Giants have one of the slowest teams in the league from what my eyes can tell. He brings a shiftiness and dangerousness this team lacks across the board on the offensive side. He can also be a dangerous return man.

Sounds fine, unless your guy doesn't really give a shit and doesn't want to be here. In which case Marvelous Kadarius Toney is on a one-way path out the door, either voluntarily or involuntarily.

Eliminate all possible excuse angles for Jones when he stinks again this year. Can't say "But he didn't have Toney this year!"

be part of the team's long-term future in the eyes of Schoen, but in terms of value, it would be a terrible decision to trade Toney now.

his value right now is probably the lowest it could be other than if he were out for the year. if we traded him now it would be like getting .25 on the dollar for our 1st round pick last season.

when evaluating Toney for a minute.

What I see is a player who is relatively small in stature and needs to learn when a play is over to avoid spending the majority of his playing career on IR.

I know many don’t respect Mel Kiper’s opinion very much, but I remember him specifically pointing out that Toney is electric, but needs to learn how to avoid contact or he’ll have a short career on draft night.

We saw that come to fruition this season. He starts off the season hurt, has that splash game against Dallas where he gets hurt again in the 4th. Then he goes out, snags four balls on the opening drive against the Rams and hurts himself again trying to make some full speed cutback. The rest of the season was basically a wash.

In terms of trading him, I’m not sure what you would get. It’s kind of like the let’s trade Engram situation last year. Other teams see the same thing we do. With Toney they see a player who hasn’t proven he can stay healthy and who seems to be kind of out there from a personality standpoint.

In comment 15656257 rich in DC said:

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Have the most to say about something. You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday. But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...

Several injured players limping along showed up yesterday. But not Marvelous Kadarius Toney. Why not? Because he attended all of the off-season workouts last year?

In comment 15656257 rich in DC said:

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Have the most to say about something. You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday. But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...

Don’t get so worked up. As a poster above said, “smart, tough and dependable” - which one is he?

why he wasn’t there?

Buy into the beat writers garbage. He’ll be here when it matters.

Whether or not you feel they are important, can we all agree that it would be preferable for Toney to show up for the first day with his new coaching staff?

I'm not going to make too much of it, but given last year's variety of issues, it's a bad look.

and get him on the field. Extract every ounce of production out of him and once he loses his mind on a nuclear level OR stops producing you let him go.

He isn't hurting anyone right now even if he isn't helping his cause. There's time and for the most part shows NFL talent when he played. See what happens in September.

In comment 15656276 rsjem1979 said:

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Whether or not you feel they are important, can we all agree that it would be preferable for Toney to show up for the first day with his new coaching staff? I'm not going to make too much of it, but given last year's variety of issues, it's a bad look.

THIS ^^^

don't trade assets for nothing.

buy low, sell high.

I know he's been a knucklehead but there's no reason to panic over it after 1 missed voluntary practice. if he misses something involuntary suspend him. at some he will realize he has to get his shit together for at least 5 minutes, trade him after that happens to at least get a day 2 pick out of it.

do you want an electric WR with great potential who is hurt often, or do you want a steady, durable, good WR?

I think we've seen the problem with oft injured WR's too many times... we talk about what they're capable of, but never what they contribute to winning.

Is Toney in this mold? It's a small data point, but an important one. Selling now is not smart business, or football sense. The Giants have a new coaching staff and a lot of changes in the way this offense is run.

You can say completely stupid stuff on here like trading a 1st round pick ; who hasn't played barley a year yet, but g-d forbid you want to move from Jones and Barkley there will be a mob of Dave Gettleman's dopples on here telling you to take your meds; attacjing you personally ; acting like you are an obnoxious person; acting like you are a bafoon etc.

There must be 20 RBs ahead of barkley and 20 QBs ahead of Jones.

And here is another thing: that shit that worked on your high school team ; work hard ; great attitude that doesn't translate much on elite athlete league like the NFL. Give me a loafer with superstar Super Bowl altering talent any day over some blue collar no talent like Jones any day.

In comment 15656260 Kmed6000 said:

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It's a simple rule. Trading Toney now would be a dump after a 1st round investment just 1 year ago. I'd be surprised if they did and I don't think they should unless you think his value will only go down.

There's also "sunken cost fallacy". Especially a cost the current regime didn't make.

The guy had one game. I think if another team wanted to discuss Toney I'd be listening.

Head case personified ... cut him now and move on.

In comment 15656287 Spider56 said:

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Head case personified ... cut him now and move on.

LOL

Are structured to where its difficult to move a player within his first few years, so before we even have a conversation about his on/off the field things, I believe we'd take a couple million dollar cap hit to trade him right now.

he can contribute on offense. Unless the staff believes it’s a big deal (forgetting what they say in public), I don’t give a flying fuck as long as he’s readyfor the season

Every time the Giants trade a gifted wide receiver with perceived attitude issues, we get better and they don't go on to being a huge part of a Super Bowl run.

but would let this season play out some and, if needed, do it at trade deadline.

Toney needs to start using more than the two cent head he showed last year...

He costs 8 million more to cut and as someone just said he is on his rookie contract and received his bonus at signing. This is a business not marbles.

that on the same website, from the same fan base, Daniel Jones should get a 4th season to prove he can do the job because the team hasn't done right by him, but Kadarius Toney is a "sunken cost" after one season.

1. we should listen to offers on any player
2. trading him doesn't make much sense to me, especially since he has the type of skill set that forward thinking, offensive coaches like Daboll and Kafka would be able to use.

Draft picks after the 1st and maybe 2nd are completely overrated. Unless you are recouping almost all of your cost there's no point in selling low since the return also has a low probability of working out. I'd rather see what we have in Toney for the next couple years and risk getting burned than sell low now.

There is no "high".

Just cut your losses and start over.

In comment 15656286 FStubbs said:

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In comment 15656260 Kmed6000 said: Quote: It's a simple rule. Trading Toney now would be a dump after a 1st round investment just 1 year ago. I'd be surprised if they did and I don't think they should unless you think his value will only go down. There's also "sunken cost fallacy". Especially a cost the current regime didn't make. The guy had one game. I think if another team wanted to discuss Toney I'd be listening.

You are ready to argue that Toney is a sunken cost already?

Also, I'm def not opposed to listening. Outside of someone offering a 1st, I don't think the conversation would get very far. I also highly doubt anyone would even consider offering a 1st.

and hope he somehow performs well enough to raise his trade value, as he doesn't fit the "smart, tough, dependable" template.

In comment 15656258 10thAve said:

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it’s the first day of voluntary workouts. Maybe he had a legit excuse, who knows. Daboll has mentioned a few times he’s been in contact with him over the past couple months. Let’s see him with a real, modern, offensive staff that knows how to use different types of offensive weapons before writing him off.

The entire first year of his career was filled with excuses

And now he's starting his 2nd season exactly where he left off

If you don't think this is a problem I don't know what to tell you

If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.

Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.

for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.

We don't know why he didn't show up for the first day of voluntary workouts.

But we can't trade him, if only because as someone said, there would be a huge cap hit if we did so. Even after restructuring Jackson's contract, we only have about $6M in cap space. Most of the FAs we signed are VSB contracts.

He also showed a lot of "make you miss" ability when he did play.

I didn't want to draft Toney. He has a lot of toughness, but I thought his injury history was too substantial in college.

.

In comment 15656313 widmerseyebrow said:

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.

He wouldn't know who Toney was anyway...

In comment 15656310 JonC said:

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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere. Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.

He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.

we cant trade him with our cap situation. His dead cap hit is bigger than his cap hit so if you trade him our cap situation gets much worse. Plus he is one of the few players who is signed long term. You cant trade or cut 1st rounders till the 3rd year so the cap hit isnt so bad and a team in our cap situation cant afford the hit so deal with him like it or not.

In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:

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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.

Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.

Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.

One could argue SB is, but lets not diminish what Toney's potential is. That game he showed some insane ability. It's not like we are talking about Ron Dixon here.

is such a challenge, the only player on this team worth trying to protect is AT.

Everyone else on this team should be considered for trade or being cut. It's a putrid roster.

You just have to assume at this point that any player covered in Gettleman's fingerprints is very likely a miss. He got little to nothing right. So why would anyone care if you never see the player in a NYG uniform again?

In comment 15656322 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said: Quote: for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him. Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now. Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.

I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?

In comment 15656322 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said: Quote: for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him. Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now. Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.

That's probably three years from now.

In comment 15656318 AcidTest said:

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In comment 15656310 JonC said: Quote: If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere. Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove. He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.

Ok, how do you even come to that conclusion? he is a potential weapon but he hardly played last year and never scored. He hasn't shown anything to say he is a true weapon. Slayton showed more his rookie year than Toney did.