I don’t know what his value is, but I just don’t see this ending well. After all the drama of last season plus the durability concerns, for him not to show up yesterday is frustrating.
I’d call up Kansas City and see what they would offer. Toney and a bad team concerns me. I never loved the pick, it felt forced to try to bring in weapons for Jones. I think it is worth looking into.
the guy played hard and played hurt. when on the field, he seems like he cares. those are positive
but the off-field stuff is very worrisome. there always seems to be something with this guy. cleats, contract, covid, injury, etc. that combined with all the missed time and the red flags coming out of college is extremely worrisome.
i think it's too early to cut bait on him.
i also never would have drafted him to begin with. they are in a tough situation with him
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Also agree. It isn't just the cap hit we'd incur by trading him. It's also that we wouldn't get much in return.
Everybody wants to "clean house" and get rid of DG's players ASAP, but that simply can't be done in one offseason. That's just the frustrating reality we have to accept.
No one is offering a second round pick. I’d be surprised if he garnered more than a fourth.
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
He made business decisions at the end of the last year and that info didn't start w/ me.
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In comment 15656310 JonC said:
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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
He is the biggest weapon we have, which means that as you note, that we are nowhere.
Ok, how do you even come to that conclusion? he is a potential weapon but he hardly played last year and never scored. He hasn't shown anything to say he is a true weapon. Slayton showed more his rookie year than Toney did.
Slatyon had a better rookie season than Toney, but not last year. I think Slayton had one of the highest drop percentages in the league.
Barkley did nothing last year.
Golladay had fewer TDs than Thomas last year(so did Toney).
"Biggest' in this context is still pretty small. It's just that everyone else did even less than Toney's minimal contributions. Toney at least had a few flashes. But the fact that Toney is our biggest weapon as I said shows how truly bad the Giants are on offense.
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Because I don't expect him to raise his value. I expect it to degrade further. We've got to stop making decisions based on optimistic scenarios.
Toney is a dipshit. He's often hurt. And on this occasions he was healthy I wasn't impressed with him as a player. I thought he was a dreadful draft pick. Dreadful.
Given the track record these past few years there's every reason to expect Toney will just turn out to be another in a long line of mistakes.
Cut bait. Cut bait everywhere you can.
I don’t have high hopes for the player, but maybe Kafka can find a way to use him as some kind of Tyreek Hill/gadget player.
Unless he pulls a DeAndre Baker he’s going to be here at least two more years.
Either way, talented kid, but seems a damn shame he isn’t all in the way both Judge and now Daboll said they wanted players to be.
Calling them voluntary, and then shaming/wanting to trade/quitting on them for treating them as voluntary is stupid beyond the pale.
Everyone else on this team should be considered for trade or being cut. It's a putrid roster.
You just have to assume at this point that any player covered in Gettleman's fingerprints is very likely a miss. He got little to nothing right. So why would anyone care if you never see the player in a NYG uniform again?
Hopefully he stays healthy. He has foot and ankle issues and has yet to play a full season.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Great post. One thing we don't know is who inside the scouting dept might have hitched their wagon to him, in addition to those already out the door. But, I'd wager that's going to be rendered a moot point soon enough, by Toney himself.
Take the 8 million cap hit and cut a player just because he was drafted by the former GM that some of you need to move the fuck on from already.
This isn't make believe. You don't just cut players. You exhaust every means available to you to get the most out of said player. You try everything first. Then you cut the player if things are untenable between player and team.
How do any of you know what he could fetch? He lacks information but you know the price of him exactly all of a sudden?
I don't think it's cut and dry. If you get like a 2nd round pick offer today because he flashed a bit or even a 3rd I'd give a long hard think about shipping him out because you might never get that again.
He could easily lower his value this year or raise it. But the premise is right no reason not to take a serious look because you drive him to the airport for a 2nd.
This is guy looks to be at least a decent chance of being a lose-lose type of player. Even if he plays well you are going to have to pay someone a lot that likely has attitude problems.
You can explain away the injuries all you want but the comment on Ruggs and just the sheer volume of issues with this guy, it's amazing that such a "classy" team and mindset that it is one of our strengths is excited about this guy.
"Smart, durable, dependable"- those are Schoen's mantras and Toney gets a big fat goose-egg for all three. The sooner they get his ass out of here, the better.
Oh and there were a gazzilion photos on giants.com of everone important who showed up. I'm SURE that if Toney was there, someone would have snapped a pic.
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In comment 15656322 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15656311 Kmed6000 said:
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for every single player that has any value. One could def argue that his high was after than amazing game last year, but I don't know if I'd agree. I don't see his value getting worse as the team improves around him.
Given that he's a dipshit who is often hurt it's likely we're at Toney's "high" value right now.
Looking forward to the day all the Gettleman players are gone.
I think its a fair opinion to hold and I can't say you are wrong, but what are you getting for him? Why dump him for a mid round pick when he's on a rookie deal and has the ability to perform and raise his value?
Because I don't expect him to raise his value. I expect it to degrade further. We've got to stop making decisions based on optimistic scenarios.
Toney is a dipshit. He's often hurt. And on this occasions he was healthy I wasn't impressed with him as a player. I thought he was a dreadful draft pick. Dreadful.
Given the track record these past few years there's every reason to expect Toney will just turn out to be another in a long line of mistakes.
Cut bait. Cut bait everywhere you can.
You and other are proposing this cut bait and suck for 2022 plan which is very idealistic and not very realistic since the fans and media will be killing the team in September, absent in December, and the media will start having a field day with Schoen and Daboll by early year 2.
The instant gratification crowd will outweigh those who are willing to execute a longer term plan. If you think otherwise, you are naïve.
If you are Schoen and or Daboll and you completely punt year one, you are a bad start in year two away from calls for a regime change. We just saw this by the way, except Judge's team didn't even tank year one, they actually made some, albeit minor, progress.
There is no time to wait in the NFL, especially not in New York. You should listen to what Carl Banks recently had to say about the "rebuild" in one of his latest conversations with Papa. Bringing in new players is fine, but in year one they need to press Dallas and be better than Philly and Washington. Go and be competitive. They're not going to do that with this "everyone sucks" let's roll over and die mentality. The Eagles made the playoffs with the ghastly Jalen Hurts as QB after he was reduced to a glorified running back.
But people are not crazy for having lots of concerns about him. There have been red flags popping up since he got here and it is still continuing.. usually when there is smoke there is fire
I want players who don't have to be gotten through to. It's one thing for a staff to work on a player's technique, work on his speed or strength, etc. But I don't expect them to improve his "want to." You either want to or you don't. If you don't, then goodbye and good luck.
Dont forget though, he was playing in an offense that was just brutal. No running game, no time to pass the ball and no need to respect anyone else on the field. I think the shiftiness he showed(ability to make guys miss in a phone booth) was elite level. To me, thats why you don't just dump him at this point.
Take the 8 million cap hit and cut a player just because he was drafted by the former GM that some of you need to move the fuck on from already.
This isn't make believe. You don't just cut players. You exhaust every means available to you to get the most out of said player. You try everything first. Then you cut the player if things are untenable between player and team.
Pink hat polyannas don’t worry about the cap they just see a guy that missed a voluntary workout and got their panties all soiled
Most NFL draft picks trend toward bust.
I don't think he a bust, he has talent, he can play in the NFL. He just needs to stay healthy. You found a guy who you know can play. He is a 1,000 yard receiver even last year if he stayed healthy.
Why trade him for probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and try this lottery again.
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Eh, the joysticking is fun to watch but moving laterally in the NFL tends to be very boom and mostly bust in the NFL. He's not really shown anything I'd label as insane ability, he didn't even score a TD. IF he reaches a point where DCs need to gameplan him, we'll see what he's made of. IF he can get and stay on the field in the first place ...
Dont forget though, he was playing in an offense that was just brutal. No running game, no time to pass the ball and no need to respect anyone else on the field. I think the shiftiness he showed(ability to make guys miss in a phone booth) was elite level. To me, thats why you don't just dump him at this point.
I haven't forgotten, he just doesn't really impress me in any way, so far.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
Toney Giants highlights - ( New Window )
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
That's my take. He had one dominant game and other than that, an injury filled, strange rookie year where he didn't show much promise.
So comparing him to Beckham like many are doing in this topic is asinine, Beckham's rookie year was historic and light years ahead of Toney's.
The signs simply aren't good for this guy. I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying "if someone wanted to discuss trading for him, I'd listen." It's far more likely Toney continues to be a disappointment/bust than the lights turn on.
Pink hat polyannas don’t worry about the cap they just see a guy that missed a voluntary workout and got their panties all soiled
It's more than just missing a voluntary workout. It was an opportunity to show you're committed to the game, in general, and the team, in particular, 100%. It was an opportunity to make that impression on your new GM and HC.
Now, that doesn't mean that Schoen is going to go out trade Toney right away. But if you don't think his absence resonates with Schoen (and Daboll), and casts the kid in a negative light, I think you're kidding yourself.
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If that were remotely true, the Giants are truly nowhere.
Keep some perspective on KT, the joysticking is fun to watch but he's got a ton to prove.
That's my take. He had one dominant game and other than that, an injury filled, strange rookie year where he didn't show much promise.
So comparing him to Beckham like many are doing in this topic is asinine, Beckham's rookie year was historic and light years ahead of Toney's.
The signs simply aren't good for this guy. I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying "if someone wanted to discuss trading for him, I'd listen." It's far more likely Toney continues to be a disappointment/bust than the lights turn on.
Where are all of these people comparing him to OBJ?
Toney is not OBJ, but OBJ was in a much better situation and had a HOF QB.
Schoen can’t give the benefit of the doubt to any player he’s inherited because the scouting system that brought them in was incontrovertibly broken.
The coming weeks are a judgement test for Toney. Good judgement would dictate: I better show the new guys I’m the exception.
Unfortunately this is the dodo who once brought an air rifle to a gun fight. Good judgement has evaded him so far.
Also, he has no eyebrows. Dude has got to go!
You have no idea what his injuries last year were, how much he was impacted by play calling, or what his reasons were for not being there yesterday.
But, go ahead and spout off about something you know nothing about...
Imagine being at the highest level of your profession, having questions about your work ethic, and deciding to skip the first day of team activities, when the majority of your co workers show up, under new management . The optics with this guy continue to be bad as much as some people want to pretend it’s not the case
Here are things I think I know about the guy:
- He brought an air rifle to a gun fight in college
- He skipped OTAs last year presumably because of his contract, despite the CBA guaranteeing his comp
- He seemingly got Covid twice
- He appealed for public sympathy for a guy who killed a woman in a car crash
- He didn’t show up to meet his new coach yesterday
He’s a smart kid. Former QB, graduated high school early. He’s creative and he’s pretty funny too. He knows better.
It would sure be hell on your BBI handle if we get rid of him.
Whole lot of emotions going on right now.
The emotions are from the superfans who want to believe our players are way better than they actually are.
It's rare for two top receivers on the same college team to both be really good in the pros. One is usually drawing coverage for the other. Kyle Pitts was an absolute monster so taking Toney as a first rounder along with his baggage came with lots of risk.
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So….
It would sure be hell on your BBI handle if we get rid of him.
I mean it was kind of a joke seeing as he’s never scored a TD. But is it too late to change it to YUNG JOKA RAP GOD?!?! Guy is a total clown but we still can’t cut or trade him now so it’s a moot point I guess
Most NFL draft picks trend toward bust.
I don't think he a bust, he has talent, he can play in the NFL. He just needs to stay healthy. You found a guy who you know can play. He is a 1,000 yard receiver even last year if he stayed healthy.
He doesn’t have T hill speed. Toney fast enough but in short area. Not a 4.3 guy
Why trade him for probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder, and try this lottery again.
I like that, JonC, ding dongery, and christian's points tend to validate it, never mind his 'Becky China Doll' (there, I said it) constitution. The man from Oz. As someone above said, if he's got, what, $7 million in his pocket, he may not feel that he is obliged to do anything more to earn it. Game over.
And who is advising him here? With all the questions surrounding him and new coaching staff - somebody should have been in his ear about the importance of attending this. Full stop, this is a mistake by him and a big red flag.
Maybe they are closer than we think 😂