Ken Sternfeld and Matt Schauger gone

I think Neal is a more a talented player, and by the end of camp the story is: why is he not playing LT?

In comment 15697062 christian said:

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I think Neal is a more a talented player, and by the end of camp the story is: why is he not playing LT?

Exactly.

And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen

think of the scouts the Giants had making picks/FA signings the last several years.

Every player not drafted this year should be keenly aware that the people who had a hand in selecting them have been fired for their poor performance.

I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

In comment 15696936 JonC said:

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otherwise you can easily challenge his future here.

This would be my concern. And it's a legitimate one.

Then there are the failures of self-scouting, like Sterling Shepard and all the offensive lineman that hung around too long. Maybe Beckham too: he was already starting to break down when the Giants backed up that Brinks truck. And possibly even Eli Manning (ducks).

In comment 15697035 bw in dc said:

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But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot.

He did say that.

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Evan Neal, again, I’m sure it will come up, but starting off we’ll be putting him at right tackle.

note that of the four people fired, three were in newly created positions under the Gettleman/Judge regime.

where we stand right now. I eliminated the previously created positions and kept director of college scouting vacant. It will be interesting to see if Schoen: (1) reorganizes the entire department with new titles/responsibilities (including scouts), and/or (2) creates new positions himself.
New York Giants Team Administration - ( New Window )

When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were.

We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.

With the draft particularly after day 1 was that the scouts were going to have a big influence on the board and the picks. This is why we may have saw some reaches, and why we consistently saw reaches for 15 years across 2 GMs and 4 HCs.

Good to see Schoen doing the needful and cleaning house in the scouting dept.

In comment 15697135 RCPhoenix said:

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When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were. We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.

Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.

In comment 15696949 The_Boss said:

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Abrams sucks at his job too.

Abrams hasn’t been the cap guy for some time

In comment 15697085 Big Blue Blogger said:

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I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

BBB, you forgot to include notable mediocrities Omameh, Skura, Bredesen (we think). I'd amend Jackson to say can't stay on the field but passable when he does, and Ogletree was cooked, slow and bad.

Quote:

New York Giants Team Administration – Ownership: Senior Vice President of Player Personnel: Chris Mara New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting: Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell

Having Chris Mara under "Ownership" with Senior VP of Player Personnel title is still very problematic IMHO. Seems to show Chris Mara is above Joe Schoen not only due to his ownership status but also with the SVP of Player Personnel title.

Hopefully Steve Tisch can force more changes:

Senior Vice President of All Things NOT Football: Chris Mara
Director of NON-FOOTBALL Personnel: Tim McDonnell[/quote]

In comment 15697012 Go Terps said:

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...I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.

GT, that trade notion is flush with conditionality, possible/could, not exactly going out on a limb are you?. But I'll play, if more than one of those guys is traded, you win; if only one, it's a push. And I say this having been quite vocal here in my reservations about Azeez and McKinney.

As to Thomas and Neal, yeah, Neal looks to be the better prospect, but as a fan I'd like not to devalue the work Thomas has put in under the most trying of circumstances.

Who couldn't identify starting OL talent if it fell in their laps. The guys who liked Flowers and Peart. The guys who liked John Jerry and Patrick Omameh, etc.

and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

In comment 15697085 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

Not to mention last year they targeted Jason McCourty, who also got hurt and didn't make it through half the season with the Dolphins.

In comment 15697142 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 15697135 RCPhoenix said: Quote: When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were. We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it. Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.

Performance matters and these three didn't see the writing on the wall.

Being proactive in setting up his staff. Hopefully he fills these openings with good talent.

commenting here were advocating taking Willis or Corral with pick 5...........

I wonder.

about cheering the fact that people were fired....

HOWEVER...

ALL the people responsible for creating this mess should be held accountable - not just some.

In comment 15697067 MyNameIsMyName said:

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And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen

Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Yeah, I find this a little weird.

Giants' prospect since OBJ (drafted in 2014) and JPP (drafted in 2010).

In comment 15697239 GFAN52 said:

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I wonder.

Now it's family business. Strictly family.

Schoen took over the Giants the end of January. He was smart enough to leave things as they were heading into the draft. There is enough work to be done just getting through a draft. These 'firings' had to be expected. There would be no way for Schoen to incorporate his views and build the culture he envisions with the same people who have been running the show for 20+ years. From an organizational perspective this is how to build or rebuild a company or team.

This also does not mean players selected in the past are going to be released or shopped. It simply means that this is Joe Schoen's team and we will keep or remove anyone who does not fit into his vision.

This should not come as a surprise but a relief for it indicates the Mara's are indeed giving the team over to Schoen.

In comment 15697260 Blue Dream said:

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In comment 15697067 MyNameIsMyName said: Quote: And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.

Here's their new office:

In comment 15697261 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door? Yeah, I find this a little weird.

No big deal...we'll just draft another OT in round one next year.

Some liked it so much this year, we can just do it again...

In comment 15697044 Vanzetti said:

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A lot of LTs play a year or two at RT to start their careers.

He also played a lot of RT which is his natural position and he was better at the right side than the left side. I expect the coaches to keep him at the right.

We should grab another tackle next draft to groom as a swing tackle and eventual replacement if necessary. Maybe Ezeudo can get some reps at tackle as he's played both sides at that position even though he's targeted for LG.

But still,the only voices that matter are the head coach and GM

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

The qualifier I provided was clear, others might have different reasons.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Huh? Who's doing that?

In comment 15696863 Trainmaster said:

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The name at the top of the list will very likely remain.

What specifically do you know about Tim McDonnell, his responsibilities and what kind of job he has done. Maybe he s a valuable asset. Some of you just like to complain.

There have been a dozen things that happened since last year that many here said would never happen, but we still get a the same narrative

You don’t like this ownership, suggest you find a new team, it ain’t changing anytime soon

The scouting changes and Andrew Thomas/Evan Neal. Strange.

In comment 15697418 TroyArchersGhost said:

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The scouting changes and Andrew Thomas/Evan Neal. Strange.

LOL. I kind of got confused as to the thread focus as well.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Chronic injury to Thomas' foot is a concern but other than that it seems like unhealed trauma of being a fan of this team the last 10 years. You simply cannot replace every position every 3-4 years. Eventually you need some traction to be able to improve the team. Broken clock is right twice a day so be grateful if Thomas and McKinney are that.

Who did he fire when he first arrived? I am drawing a blank. Wasn't it two front office guys?

We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen.

In comment 15697617 D HOS said:

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Who did he fire when he first arrived? I am drawing a blank. Wasn't it two front office guys? We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen.

Mark Koncz was fired and Chad Blunder (a McDonnell connection) left for Duke

In comment 15697674 DCPollaro said:

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In comment 15697617 D HOS said: Quote: Who did he fire when he first arrived? I am drawing a blank. Wasn't it two front office guys? We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen. Mark Koncz was fired and Chad Blunder (a McDonnell connection) left for Duke

Klunder* but Blunder sounds better!

In comment 15696961 Carson53 said:

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In comment 15696947 Eric from BBI said: Quote: messing around. . Schoen is putting more of his imprint on the organization, as he should. Heck, he mentioned he didn't like the way the draft room and 'board' was set up too. It might seem like a simple thing, but he is paying attention to detail, this organization needs that.

He's talking about tweaking his own work there, was he and his came up with this years draft room set up, want the same as the past.

The scouting and drafting system under the previous management was broken. Everyone acquired by them should be evaluated with rigor.

Thomas needs to prove he can stay healthy, and that he can hold up. He got beat like a bag his rookie year, and then played well his second year.

I'll be interested to see if he's the side teams attack more, and how he performs.

The dude is absolutely putting in the work, no one can say otherwise.

Hires a new coaching and "other" staff positions, evaluates his first draft class, and reworks the entire personnel department while doing so. In just a few months.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Amazing isn't it.

If DG drafted the second coming of Jesus CHrist, Moses and LAwrence Taylor all rolled in one, the legion here would insist he needs to be purged to stave off any DG infection.

Thomas isn't fucking going anywhere. And he's a 3rd year player where as Neal is a rookie. Guess who starts at LT.

In comment 15697152 Trainmaster said:

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Quote: New York Giants Team Administration – Ownership: Senior Vice President of Player Personnel: Chris Mara New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting: Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell Having Chris Mara under "Ownership" with Senior VP of Player Personnel title is still very problematic IMHO. Seems to show Chris Mara is above Joe Schoen not only due to his ownership status but also with the SVP of Player Personnel title. Hopefully Steve Tisch can force more changes: Senior Vice President of All Things NOT Football: Chris Mara Director of NON-FOOTBALL Personnel: Tim McDonnell

[/quote]


THIS

In comment 15698087 djm said:

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In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door? Amazing isn't it. If DG drafted the second coming of Jesus CHrist, Moses and LAwrence Taylor all rolled in one, the legion here would insist he needs to be purged to stave off any DG infection. Thomas isn't fucking going anywhere. And he's a 3rd year player where as Neal is a rookie. Guess who starts at LT.

Some of you either cannot read or are willfully dense.

of combative tw*ts. Enjoy!