Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
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@DDuggan21
Giants senior pro scouting executive Ken Sternfeld and senior proscout/football systems analyst Matt Schauger are also no longer with the team, per source. Sternfeld (2002) and Schauger (2005) were long-time employees in the pro personnel department.
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New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting:
Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell
Director of College Scouting: Chris Pettit
College Scouting Coordinator: Ryan Hollern
Pro Personnel Manager: Steven Price
Senior Pro Personnel Executive: Ken Sternfeld
Pro Personnel Executive Scout: Jeremiah Davis
Pro Personnel Senior Scout/Football Systems Analyst: Matt Shauger
Pro Personnel Scouts: Nick La Testa and Corey Lockett
College Scouting Senior Personnel Executive: Kyle O’Brien
College Regional Scout: Jeremy Breit
College Area Scouts: D.J. Boisture (West), Hannah Burnett (Midlands), Marcus Cooper (Southeast), Patrick Hanscomb (Mid-Atlantic), Marquis Pendleton (Northeast), Brendan Prophett (Midwest)
BLESTO College Scout: Blaise Bell
+1
I'm guessing Thomas and McKinney could stay a while, but other than that, I agree.
While I don't completely agree with Terps that there are no salvageable players -- I wouldn't be on there being many.
Schoen is telling is in direct terms system he inherited sucked and produced bad results.
Why do you think he drafted so many players he and Brown visited in person? Those are the only two people in the building the last month he trusted.
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I wouldn't buy any jerseys of any players brought into this organization before Kayvon Thibodeaux. Anyone on this roster before him was either a 1 year stopgap or just lost all their advocates.
I'm guessing Thomas and McKinney could stay a while, but other than that, I agree.
They just drafted a guy that plays the same position as Thomas, and McKinney plays what Schoen wouldn't consider a "premium position". I don't know...
2. he would want to see how they do in the new systems.
Identifying who can be part of the solution, is a real important part of manageing.
As for no returning player "being safe": this will disappoint those who want the entire roster executed for the sin of giving them bad football, but I think Schoen and Daboll are going to be rational and measured about it, just as they seem to be about everything else. Dave on the UWS has it right -- they're going to see how these guys do with new (hopefully improved) coaching before any decisions are made. Jettisoning good players because they were on a bad team that pissed you off isn't a strategy based on logic.
Its been this way for months, people didn't want to believe it (I get that). But if you aren't convinced by now you never will be.
I don't know about you folks, but I feel it is long overdue.
It's obvious what was at play, kept personnel here thru the draft, and then Schoen said sayonara, I love it.
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Let’s get him out of here pronto. ASAP.
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otherwise you can easily challenge his future here.
Let’s get him out of here pronto. ASAP.
Got something on your mind?
Not this year, and probably not next. But after that I'm not convinced he sees another deal here. I'm also not convinced Neal is a right tackle long term.
Schoen is putting more of his imprint on the organization,
as he should. Heck, he mentioned he didn't like the way the draft room and 'board' was set up too. It might seem like a simple thing, but he is paying attention to detail, this organization needs that.
It is just the same injury, not continually dinged, just one injury.
And yes, if the wheel continues to be bad, he will be gone. This guy ain't messing around.
“When you’re here, you’re family”
I don't think he's got the same "I'm going to get rid of any player before my time because GRAAAR" mindset Gettleman had.
Andrew Thomas and McKinney are two players who likely aren't going anywhere.
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But also continually dinged. As JonC noted his foot and ankle better heal or he's on the block too.
It is just the same injury, not continually dinged, just one injury.
And yes, if the wheel continues to be bad, he will be gone. This guy ain't messing around.
Chronic is chronic, he came here from college with it and it has persisted. Let's not split hairs, let's hope they fix it.
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Thomas ain’t going anywhere
Not this year, and probably not next. But after that I'm not convinced he sees another deal here. I'm also not convinced Neal is a right tackle long term.
So the Giants aren’t going to pick up his 5th year option? He’ll be sent packing after year 4.
I'm gonna say they would have won ten games each of those years and Buffalo would have won 6 or so with Danny Jones as QB.
These are the same scouts who found Brandon Jacobs in the 4th round, Justin Tuck in the 3rd. Who found Victor Cruz and drafted JPP, Osi, Nicks,Steve Smith, Corey Webster.
I would not be so quick to think "new" means "better."
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In comment 15696877 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't buy any jerseys of any players brought into this organization before Kayvon Thibodeaux. Anyone on this roster before him was either a 1 year stopgap or just lost all their advocates.
I'm guessing Thomas and McKinney could stay a while, but other than that, I agree.
They just drafted a guy that plays the same position as Thomas, and McKinney plays what Schoen wouldn't consider a "premium position". I don't know...
Neal was clearly drafted to play right tackle. Anybody we got down in the lower rounds is a lottery ticket/depth.
I'm gonna say they would have won ten games each of those years and Buffalo would have won 6 or so with Danny Jones as QB.
These are the same scouts who found Brandon Jacobs in the 4th round, Justin Tuck in the 3rd. Who found Victor Cruz and drafted JPP, Osi, Nicks,Steve Smith, Corey Webster.
I would not be so quick to think "new" means "better."
Would you want the 2022 versions of these guys on the roster right now?
Sometimes the game passes you by.
Lets not compare apples and oranges. Thomas isn't going anywhere, now if it continues to be an issue down the road.
The young man is only going into his 3rd season, it's not like
he in his 5th season, like somebody else we know.
Pro scouting wasn’t good since Gettleman was first promoted.
This seemed pretty clear. Judge worked with him for a while and O'Brien/Patricia in Detroit. It just lines up but who knows for sure.
Giants seemed to be infatuated with Golladay before O'brien was brought in - almost trading for him in 2020 at the deadline.
Lot of decision makers with nostalgia for 2007, trying to find a new Plax I'm thinking.
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But, only bad GMs throw out quality players because they're someone else's legacy.
I bet Andrew Thomas finishes his rookie deal here. The real talking point is would they pay him Left Tackle Money or just move neal over
Yeah this is the only thing that I see that could hold Thomas back at this point. He’s definitely good enough to be a cornerstone player. But the foot and ankle stuff is worrying
But, only bad GMs throw out quality players because they're someone else's legacy.
I bet Andrew Thomas finishes his rookie deal here. The real talking point is would they pay him Left Tackle Money or just move neal over
I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle.
I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.
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In comment 15696886 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15696877 Go Terps said:
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I wouldn't buy any jerseys of any players brought into this organization before Kayvon Thibodeaux. Anyone on this roster before him was either a 1 year stopgap or just lost all their advocates.
I'm guessing Thomas and McKinney could stay a while, but other than that, I agree.
They just drafted a guy that plays the same position as Thomas, and McKinney plays what Schoen wouldn't consider a "premium position". I don't know...
Neal was clearly drafted to play right tackle. Anybody we got down in the lower rounds is a lottery ticket/depth.
Neal was drafted to play RT right now. But he also gives them the flexibility to make an objective and detached decision about Thomas when that time comes.
He arrived with a foot, ankle happened after arrival.
It just requires you to actually draft them when you should...
:-)
This is particularly important for pass pro and coverage.
The Giants had a ton of weak links on the line, so Thomas wasn't a target. Much easier to attack Solder/Hernandez.
Same thing for McKinney -- Ryan/Peppers/Bradberry got beat like a bag last year.
Said in another way, are these good or did the other players just suck more.
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As fans we're also attached to him because he played well amid a dumpster fire.
But, only bad GMs throw out quality players because they're someone else's legacy.
I bet Andrew Thomas finishes his rookie deal here. The real talking point is would they pay him Left Tackle Money or just move neal over
I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle.
I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.
Indianapolis took Quentin Nelson at 6 to be an OG. If the Giants were looking at LT of the future then the only name in this draft that made sense was Cross. Since above average starting OT's rarely hit FA and those that do are overpriced, it would make sense that Joe Schoen would want to lock up a pair of them. If you have 2 OT's who don't need help from OG or TE/FB it allows you more flexibility at those positions.
I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle.
I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.
I was thinking about this. I hope it's open competition to determine who plays which tackle spot. That would seem the best approach. Although Thomas having real game reps at the spot - with improvement - is a plus for him.
I'm from the school of thought that pass rushers line-up everywhere. So you'd better have competent bookends because both T positions get exploited by DCs.
But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot. Hopefully that's just my imagination...
FYI, it's Shauger, not Schauger.
New York Giants Fire Ken Sternfeld and Matt Shauger - ( New Window )
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I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle.
I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.
I was thinking about this. I hope it's open competition to determine who plays which tackle spot. That would seem the best approach. Although Thomas having real game reps at the spot - with improvement - is a plus for him.
I'm from the school of thought that pass rushers line-up everywhere. So you'd better have competent bookends because both T positions get exploited by DCs.
But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot. Hopefully that's just my imagination...
That is my feeling on OL in general. Any competent DC is going to exploit your weakest link. You do not necessarily need Pro Bowlers at every OL position, but you just can't have below average NFL starter or worse at any one position.
Quite likely, since the Giants/Mara are so family oriented, so it’s likely a ‘ legacy’ thing.
Exactly.
Every player not drafted this year should be keenly aware that the people who had a hand in selecting them have been fired for their poor performance.
This would be my concern. And it's a legitimate one.
He did say that.
New York Giants Team Administration - ( New Window )
We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.
Good to see Schoen doing the needful and cleaning house in the scouting dept.
We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.
Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.
Abrams hasn’t been the cap guy for some time
BBB, you forgot to include notable mediocrities Omameh, Skura, Bredesen (we think). I'd amend Jackson to say can't stay on the field but passable when he does, and Ogletree was cooked, slow and bad.
Senior Vice President of Player Personnel: Chris Mara
New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting:
Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell
Having Chris Mara under "Ownership" with Senior VP of Player Personnel title is still very problematic IMHO. Seems to show Chris Mara is above Joe Schoen not only due to his ownership status but also with the SVP of Player Personnel title.
Hopefully Steve Tisch can force more changes:
Senior Vice President of All Things NOT Football: Chris Mara
Director of NON-FOOTBALL Personnel: Tim McDonnell[/quote]
GT, that trade notion is flush with conditionality, possible/could, not exactly going out on a limb are you?. But I'll play, if more than one of those guys is traded, you win; if only one, it's a push. And I say this having been quite vocal here in my reservations about Azeez and McKinney.
As to Thomas and Neal, yeah, Neal looks to be the better prospect, but as a fan I'd like not to devalue the work Thomas has put in under the most trying of circumstances.
Not to mention last year they targeted Jason McCourty, who also got hurt and didn't make it through half the season with the Dolphins.
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When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were.
We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.
Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.
Performance matters and these three didn't see the writing on the wall.
HOWEVER...
ALL the people responsible for creating this mess should be held accountable - not just some.
Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.
Yeah, I find this a little weird.
Now it's family business. Strictly family.
This also does not mean players selected in the past are going to be released or shopped. It simply means that this is Joe Schoen's team and we will keep or remove anyone who does not fit into his vision.
This should not come as a surprise but a relief for it indicates the Mara's are indeed giving the team over to Schoen.
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And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen
Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.
Here's their new office:
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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?
Yeah, I find this a little weird.
No big deal...we'll just draft another OT in round one next year.
Some liked it so much this year, we can just do it again...
He also played a lot of RT which is his natural position and he was better at the right side than the left side. I expect the coaches to keep him at the right.
We should grab another tackle next draft to groom as a swing tackle and eventual replacement if necessary. Maybe Ezeudo can get some reps at tackle as he's played both sides at that position even though he's targeted for LG.
The qualifier I provided was clear, others might have different reasons.
Huh? Who's doing that?
What specifically do you know about Tim McDonnell, his responsibilities and what kind of job he has done. Maybe he s a valuable asset. Some of you just like to complain.
There have been a dozen things that happened since last year that many here said would never happen, but we still get a the same narrative
You don’t like this ownership, suggest you find a new team, it ain’t changing anytime soon
LOL. I kind of got confused as to the thread focus as well.
Chronic injury to Thomas' foot is a concern but other than that it seems like unhealed trauma of being a fan of this team the last 10 years. You simply cannot replace every position every 3-4 years. Eventually you need some traction to be able to improve the team. Broken clock is right twice a day so be grateful if Thomas and McKinney are that.
We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen.
We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen.
Mark Koncz was fired and Chad Blunder (a McDonnell connection) left for Duke
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Who did he fire when he first arrived? I am drawing a blank. Wasn't it two front office guys?
We should start keeping a reaper list for Schoen.
Mark Koncz was fired and Chad Blunder (a McDonnell connection) left for Duke
Klunder* but Blunder sounds better!
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messing around.
.
Schoen is putting more of his imprint on the organization,
as he should. Heck, he mentioned he didn't like the way the draft room and 'board' was set up too. It might seem like a simple thing, but he is paying attention to detail, this organization needs that.
Thomas needs to prove he can stay healthy, and that he can hold up. He got beat like a bag his rookie year, and then played well his second year.
I'll be interested to see if he's the side teams attack more, and how he performs.
Hires a new coaching and "other" staff positions, evaluates his first draft class, and reworks the entire personnel department while doing so. In just a few months.
Amazing isn't it.
If DG drafted the second coming of Jesus CHrist, Moses and LAwrence Taylor all rolled in one, the legion here would insist he needs to be purged to stave off any DG infection.
Thomas isn't fucking going anywhere. And he's a 3rd year player where as Neal is a rookie. Guess who starts at LT.
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New York Giants Team Administration – Ownership:
Senior Vice President of Player Personnel: Chris Mara
New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting:
Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell
Having Chris Mara under "Ownership" with Senior VP of Player Personnel title is still very problematic IMHO. Seems to show Chris Mara is above Joe Schoen not only due to his ownership status but also with the SVP of Player Personnel title.
Hopefully Steve Tisch can force more changes:
Senior Vice President of All Things NOT Football: Chris Mara
Director of NON-FOOTBALL Personnel: Tim McDonnell
THIS
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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?
Amazing isn't it.
If DG drafted the second coming of Jesus CHrist, Moses and LAwrence Taylor all rolled in one, the legion here would insist he needs to be purged to stave off any DG infection.
Thomas isn't fucking going anywhere. And he's a 3rd year player where as Neal is a rookie. Guess who starts at LT.
Some of you either cannot read or are willfully dense.