Ken Sternfeld and Matt Schauger gone

In comment 15697004 Dave on the UWS said:

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He's already said the procedure he had AFTER his rookie season was not successful, and he's had MUCH better results from this past off-season. He expects (as we do) to be 100% for this year. Now, that being said, if he continues to have issues with it (definition of a "chronic" issue), then they should NOT sign him to a second contract. That would not be smart.

He arrived with a foot, ankle happened after arrival.

Hopefully Thomas gets his wheels corrected. And Neal is a nice pickup who can play several places as needed. Having options at Tackle are a good thing.

It just requires you to actually draft them when you should...

:-)

We'll learn a lot about the incumbents if the surrounding talent improves. Are these guys actually good or were they good relative to the surroundings.

This is particularly important for pass pro and coverage.

The Giants had a ton of weak links on the line, so Thomas wasn't a target. Much easier to attack Solder/Hernandez.

Same thing for McKinney -- Ryan/Peppers/Bradberry got beat like a bag last year.

Said in another way, are these good or did the other players just suck more.

In comment 15697012 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15697007 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: As fans we're also attached to him because he played well amid a dumpster fire. But, only bad GMs throw out quality players because they're someone else's legacy. I bet Andrew Thomas finishes his rookie deal here. The real talking point is would they pay him Left Tackle Money or just move neal over I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle. I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.

Indianapolis took Quentin Nelson at 6 to be an OG. If the Giants were looking at LT of the future then the only name in this draft that made sense was Cross. Since above average starting OT's rarely hit FA and those that do are overpriced, it would make sense that Joe Schoen would want to lock up a pair of them. If you have 2 OT's who don't need help from OG or TE/FB it allows you more flexibility at those positions.

In comment 15697012 Go Terps said:

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I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle. I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.

I was thinking about this. I hope it's open competition to determine who plays which tackle spot. That would seem the best approach. Although Thomas having real game reps at the spot - with improvement - is a plus for him.

I'm from the school of thought that pass rushers line-up everywhere. So you'd better have competent bookends because both T positions get exploited by DCs.

But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot. Hopefully that's just my imagination...

significant in that both were with the organization a long, long time... See my write-up on what they did here...

FYI, it's Shauger, not Schauger.


New York Giants Fire Ken Sternfeld and Matt Shauger - ( New Window )

In comment 15697035 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15697012 Go Terps said: Quote: I'm not suggesting they throw Thomas out; I just don't think they drafted Neal #7 overall to be anything other than the left tackle. I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up. I was thinking about this. I hope it's open competition to determine who plays which tackle spot. That would seem the best approach. Although Thomas having real game reps at the spot - with improvement - is a plus for him. I'm from the school of thought that pass rushers line-up everywhere. So you'd better have competent bookends because both T positions get exploited by DCs. But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot. Hopefully that's just my imagination...

That is my feeling on OL in general. Any competent DC is going to exploit your weakest link. You do not necessarily need Pro Bowlers at every OL position, but you just can't have below average NFL starter or worse at any one position.

A lot of LTs play a year or two at RT to start their careers.

In comment 15696877 Go Terps said:

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I wouldn't buy any jerseys of any players brought into this organization before Kayvon Thibodeaux. Anyone on this roster before him was either a 1 year stopgap or just lost all their advocates.

Amen...

In comment 15696942 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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is connected to Tom Boisture who was prominent with those 80 teams.

Quite likely, since the Giants/Mara are so family oriented, so it’s likely a ‘ legacy’ thing.

I think Neal is a more a talented player, and by the end of camp the story is: why is he not playing LT?

In comment 15697062 christian said:

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I think Neal is a more a talented player, and by the end of camp the story is: why is he not playing LT?

Exactly.

And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen

think of the scouts the Giants had making picks/FA signings the last several years.

Every player not drafted this year should be keenly aware that the people who had a hand in selecting them have been fired for their poor performance.

I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

In comment 15696936 JonC said:

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otherwise you can easily challenge his future here.

This would be my concern. And it's a legitimate one.

Then there are the failures of self-scouting, like Sterling Shepard and all the offensive lineman that hung around too long. Maybe Beckham too: he was already starting to break down when the Giants backed up that Brinks truck. And possibly even Eli Manning (ducks).

In comment 15697035 bw in dc said:

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But I thought Schoen said Neal was going to take the RT slot.

He did say that.

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Evan Neal, again, I’m sure it will come up, but starting off we’ll be putting him at right tackle.

note that of the four people fired, three were in newly created positions under the Gettleman/Judge regime.

where we stand right now. I eliminated the previously created positions and kept director of college scouting vacant. It will be interesting to see if Schoen: (1) reorganizes the entire department with new titles/responsibilities (including scouts), and/or (2) creates new positions himself.
New York Giants Team Administration - ( New Window )

When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were.

We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.

With the draft particularly after day 1 was that the scouts were going to have a big influence on the board and the picks. This is why we may have saw some reaches, and why we consistently saw reaches for 15 years across 2 GMs and 4 HCs.

Good to see Schoen doing the needful and cleaning house in the scouting dept.

In comment 15697135 RCPhoenix said:

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When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were. We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it.

Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.

In comment 15696949 The_Boss said:

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Abrams sucks at his job too.

Abrams hasn’t been the cap guy for some time

In comment 15697085 Big Blue Blogger said:

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I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

BBB, you forgot to include notable mediocrities Omameh, Skura, Bredesen (we think). I'd amend Jackson to say can't stay on the field but passable when he does, and Ogletree was cooked, slow and bad.

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New York Giants Team Administration – Ownership: Senior Vice President of Player Personnel: Chris Mara New York Giants Team Administration – Pro Personnel and College Scouting: Director of Player Personnel: Tim McDonnell

Having Chris Mara under "Ownership" with Senior VP of Player Personnel title is still very problematic IMHO. Seems to show Chris Mara is above Joe Schoen not only due to his ownership status but also with the SVP of Player Personnel title.

Hopefully Steve Tisch can force more changes:

Senior Vice President of All Things NOT Football: Chris Mara
Director of NON-FOOTBALL Personnel: Tim McDonnell[/quote]

In comment 15697012 Go Terps said:

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...I do think it's possible Thomas, McKinney, and or Ojulari could be traded at some point before the contract question comes up.

GT, that trade notion is flush with conditionality, possible/could, not exactly going out on a limb are you?. But I'll play, if more than one of those guys is traded, you win; if only one, it's a push. And I say this having been quite vocal here in my reservations about Azeez and McKinney.

As to Thomas and Neal, yeah, Neal looks to be the better prospect, but as a fan I'd like not to devalue the work Thomas has put in under the most trying of circumstances.

Who couldn't identify starting OL talent if it fell in their laps. The guys who liked Flowers and Peart. The guys who liked John Jerry and Patrick Omameh, etc.

and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

In comment 15697085 Big Blue Blogger said:

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I think it would have been difficult to retain Sternfeld, based on results alone, no matter what they think of his abilities or effort. Since 2012, free agent signings and trades have gone a long way toward sinking four head coaches and two GMs. The drafts have been terrible too, but there you're largely projecting what 21-year-old kids will become. With pro personnel, you don't have to project anything, aside from maybe system fit. Even casual fans knew Jonathan Stewart, Connor Barwin, Antoine Bethea, and Kyle Rudolph were cooked, Kenny Golladay was always hurt, Billy Price stunk, Nate Solder, Adoree Jackson and Alec Ogletree were ordinary, etc., etc. Even the "good" signings were good for exactly one year: Jenkins, Vernon, Harrison, Bradberry, Martinez... I guess some credit is due for Leonard Williams, but he wasn't exactly a hidden gem. The Giants were just the most desperate bidder.

Not to mention last year they targeted Jason McCourty, who also got hurt and didn't make it through half the season with the Dolphins.

In comment 15697142 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15697135 RCPhoenix said: Quote: When Schoen was hired. If they thought Mara would save them, they thought poorly & didn't appreciate how bad things were. We'll see if any of them work for another NFL team anytime soon. Somehow I doubt it. Well, three of them have been here for a VERY long time...20 years or more. They were almost lifers.

Performance matters and these three didn't see the writing on the wall.

Being proactive in setting up his staff. Hopefully he fills these openings with good talent.

commenting here were advocating taking Willis or Corral with pick 5...........

I wonder.

about cheering the fact that people were fired....

HOWEVER...

ALL the people responsible for creating this mess should be held accountable - not just some.

In comment 15697067 MyNameIsMyName said:

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And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen

Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Yeah, I find this a little weird.

Giants' prospect since OBJ (drafted in 2014) and JPP (drafted in 2010).

In comment 15697239 GFAN52 said:

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I wonder.

Now it's family business. Strictly family.

Schoen took over the Giants the end of January. He was smart enough to leave things as they were heading into the draft. There is enough work to be done just getting through a draft. These 'firings' had to be expected. There would be no way for Schoen to incorporate his views and build the culture he envisions with the same people who have been running the show for 20+ years. From an organizational perspective this is how to build or rebuild a company or team.

This also does not mean players selected in the past are going to be released or shopped. It simply means that this is Joe Schoen's team and we will keep or remove anyone who does not fit into his vision.

This should not come as a surprise but a relief for it indicates the Mara's are indeed giving the team over to Schoen.

In comment 15697260 Blue Dream said:

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In comment 15697067 MyNameIsMyName said: Quote: And McDonell gone too, but it’ll never happen Can't get too greedy. Schoen will just marganalize them and ignore their advice.

Here's their new office:

In comment 15697261 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said: Quote: and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door? Yeah, I find this a little weird.

No big deal...we'll just draft another OT in round one next year.

Some liked it so much this year, we can just do it again...

In comment 15697044 Vanzetti said:

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A lot of LTs play a year or two at RT to start their careers.

He also played a lot of RT which is his natural position and he was better at the right side than the left side. I expect the coaches to keep him at the right.

We should grab another tackle next draft to groom as a swing tackle and eventual replacement if necessary. Maybe Ezeudo can get some reps at tackle as he's played both sides at that position even though he's targeted for LG.

But still,the only voices that matter are the head coach and GM

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

The qualifier I provided was clear, others might have different reasons.

In comment 15697186 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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and you guys are already pushing Thomas out the door?

Huh? Who's doing that?

In comment 15696863 Trainmaster said:

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The name at the top of the list will very likely remain.

What specifically do you know about Tim McDonnell, his responsibilities and what kind of job he has done. Maybe he s a valuable asset. Some of you just like to complain.

There have been a dozen things that happened since last year that many here said would never happen, but we still get a the same narrative

You don’t like this ownership, suggest you find a new team, it ain’t changing anytime soon

The scouting changes and Andrew Thomas/Evan Neal. Strange.

In comment 15697418 TroyArchersGhost said:

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The scouting changes and Andrew Thomas/Evan Neal. Strange.

LOL. I kind of got confused as to the thread focus as well.