Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "If Daniel can stay on his feet there are enough weapons on the team right now we can be a competitive team and get our best version of Daniel Jones."
Zack Rosenblatt
✔
@ZackBlatt
Joe Schoen said on WFAN that there should be a resolution to the James Bradberry situation by the end of the week. #Giants
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660 "We love Daniel Jones... we think he is a win-with player." Says not using the option is "not an indictment" or a signal that their feelings have changed.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
if they simply were going to release him, I would think that there is little reason for it to drag on. They must have a proposal to him and his agent. But whatever…
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
Really sucks if they release him now. He missed the freeagent period so the Giants played hardball with him. Don't like separations like this.
Some pretty dumb questions from Carton and Roberts but I’m really enjoying listening to Schoen. He’s providing some great insight. I’ll never understand why fans don’t care about hearing from their GM -I.e. Gettleman and the Knicks with Leon Rose.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
Really sucks if they release him now. He missed the freeagent period so the Giants played hardball with him. Don't like separations like this.
yes, and IF this is true, it’s the closest Schoen has come to a miscue since he’s been here - otherwise he’s been masterful.
Ryan Dunleavy
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
He forced himself out. Gave his employer every reason to can him.
Certainly got a raw deal here as well not denying that but he had to do many things wrong to put himself in a situation to get fired and he did those many things.
Not sure what more they could have done. Doesn't sound like they had an offer before the draft. I too thought they might be able to get a pick for him during or right after the draft from a team that did not address CB.
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
The talk about a couple of teams being interested him (coming from Schoen himself) must have been BS. Mara's comments at the owner's meeting didn't help, but probably did not impact this.
Not sure what more they could have done. Doesn't sound like they had an offer before the draft. I too thought they might be able to get a pick for him during or right after the draft from a team that did not address CB.
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
The talk about a couple of teams being interested him (coming from Schoen himself) must have been BS. Mara's comments at the owner's meeting didn't help, but probably did not impact this.
agreed. designate him a post June 1 cut, pick up $10 mill in cap space and move on.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
Ryan Dunleavy
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
He forced himself out. Gave his employer every reason to can him.
Certainly got a raw deal here as well not denying that but he had to do many things wrong to put himself in a situation to get fired and he did those many things.
Seriously...national media forced Judge out? OK, sure...
He’s the only other starting CB on this team. And if this is another wasted season by November, I’d look to trade him and Barkley or whoever else is not going to be on the team next year
can't keep Bradberry because they need the cap space his release provides.
Schoen ate his $2M signing bonus because he thought he'd be able to trade him. The fact that true out to be false doesn't mean it wasn't a reasonable assumption.
Ryan Dunleavy
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
Dunleavy strikes me as not too bright and over self-important with this line.
The MEDIA is a lot more than the beats who cover the team, especially now. Social media (which all the players have and pay a lot of attention to), talk radio, etc - there's more of it here in NY. Who cares about the beats lol.
RE: Cannot believe Joe Schoen said team success is dependent upon
if they are going to release him what is stopping them from doing it now?
unless I misheard, Schoen just confirmed he had compensation in place for JB trades but the other teams couldn't agree to extensions with JB. Takeaway being James Bradberry the player had trade value pre teams filling their needs in UFA/Draft. I personally wouldn't rush to cut a player with trade value because you never know when a team will lose a player to injury or suspension and all of sudden be back in the market. If Bradberry plays decent it's highly likely there's a trade market before the deadline.
the most (only?) logical thing holding up a decision at this point is financial. Do they have an extension on the table? If he declines, is their backup plan to release him or just restructure?
the best thing for his trade value would be a restructure, so i think that's what happens. And perhaps only as much as they need to sign their draft picks for now.
JJ might be the worst coach of all time in NYG history.....
For me after all his bluster, he never lived up to anything he said. Here's an all-timer. Remember when he said that they will treat every single play as if it had a life of it's own...." I'm paraphrasing there....And, then insult us by going into the "the turtle" formation on 2nd & 3rd down deep in our own end? Those 2 plays are a close second to "the Fumble".... Pure Embarrassment.
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
I agree 100%.
We have our book ends for the next 8-10 years. I would be shocked otherwise.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
just relistened here was schoen's exact quote re bradberry trades
here's the full question and answer. The point about the trades previously agreed to is bolded.
Quote:
Q: Are you surprised there wasn't that robust a trade market for him (Bradberry)?
A: "Yeah I was. I thought there'd be more interest. There were some teams that showed interest pre-draft and we had a couple different times there were compensation in place and the contract never worked out. Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is. Again, great kid, agents been great, great conversations and at some point we'll have a resolution by the end of the week."
now on the flip side, on a re-listen in the answer to the prior question he used the word "unfortunate" because "because he's a great kid" which would seemingly imply something negative upcoming, like an impending release into a market that doesn't have $13.4m unspent dollars in it for this year.
Quote:
Q: What's the status of James Bradberry, is he going to be on this team to start the year?
A: "Yeah we're working through that right now. His agents have been great, we've been in constant communication. I've talked to James, it's been very professional throughout the whole process, and we should have some resolution hopefully by the end of the week. It's unfortunate because he's a great kid, I know a lot about him when i was in buffalo Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott were in Carolina when they drafted him and always spoken very highly of the kid, and listen he's a starting corner in the league, it's just you know where we are financially, we need to sign our draft picks, practice squad, and replacement costs during the season."
and he declined. Because there wasn't much reason to keep him as long as they did if they planned to cut him. The only reason to have taken his contract down to the wire when the guaranteed $ vested was if there was an alternative under consideration.
RE: just relistened here was schoen's exact quote re bradberry trades
here's the full question and answer. The point about the trades previously agreed to is bolded.
Quote:
Q: Are you surprised there wasn't that robust a trade market for him (Bradberry)?
A: "Yeah I was. I thought there'd be more interest. There were some teams that showed interest pre-draft and we had a couple different times there were compensation in place and the contract never worked out. Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is. Again, great kid, agents been great, great conversations and at some point we'll have a resolution by the end of the week."
now on the flip side, on a re-listen in the answer to the prior question he used the word "unfortunate" because "because he's a great kid" which would seemingly imply something negative upcoming, like an impending release into a market that doesn't have $13.4m unspent dollars in it for this year.
Quote:
Q: What's the status of James Bradberry, is he going to be on this team to start the year?
A: "Yeah we're working through that right now. His agents have been great, we've been in constant communication. I've talked to James, it's been very professional throughout the whole process, and we should have some resolution hopefully by the end of the week. It's unfortunate because he's a great kid, I know a lot about him when i was in buffalo Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott were in Carolina when they drafted him and always spoken very highly of the kid, and listen he's a starting corner in the league, it's just you know where we are financially, we need to sign our draft picks, practice squad, and replacement costs during the season."
Thanks for supplying this. Indeed it sounds like release.
Maybe he communicated to Team JB to think through again what a restructured deal looks like that helps both sides, and he has until Friday to stipulate otherwise he is released.
Sounds like they gave him an option of a paycut, an "extension" or his release.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
the scenario i just laid out above where he cuts his salary $3.4m would play out like this (i think, can't recall another paycut restructure like this).
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
Sounds like they gave him an option of a paycut, an "extension" or his release.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
Yup. I give Schoen a lot of credit for how he's seemingly played this. It seems like Bradberry's contract demands scuttled their plan A, and even still he's kept things respectful with his public comments. No bridges burned.
He said he let the agents go out there and have conversations. The right move. Don't let them live in a fantasy land that the grass is greener. Go find the better deal.
It seems he's willing to accept whatever outcome transpires even though it's unlikely not ideal, but he's played the scenario out to try to extract value as best he can. Bradberry's contract demands and the way UFA/draft fell may have just broken against him.
If Bradberry wants out I think they will let him out like Logan Ryan. If he wants in I think he will have to say yes on their terms. Ryan's contract gave him a lot more leverage to walk though.
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
I agree 100%.
We have our book ends for the next 8-10 years. I would be shocked otherwise.
I'm not sure that "right now" portends a 10 year plan
the scenario i just laid out above where he cuts his salary $3.4m would play out like this (i think, can't recall another paycut restructure like this).
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
Might need even a bit more salary cut...not liking a dead cap exceeding $5M at first blush.
Nevertheless, good thoughts. My guess is JB doesn't give but who the hell knows...
is that everything with JB was on hold until after the draft to see how things played out. now they'll sit down with JB and see where his head's at. wink can tell him how he sees him fitting in to the scheme etc. if JB's not into it, he'll be released. If he wants to be here, they'll figure out a way.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
Wtf? Why are Booth and Gordon long term fixes but Robinson is a short term fix? Because you wanted Booth or Gordon more? You act like Robinson is 32 years old with one year left on his contract….
the scenario i just laid out above where he cuts his salary $3.4m would play out like this (i think, can't recall another paycut restructure like this).
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
Might need even a bit more salary cut...not liking a dead cap exceeding $5M at first blush.
Nevertheless, good thoughts. My guess is JB doesn't give but who the hell knows...
If i had to be on over or under the 10m i'd probably bet under. Gilmore is on a 7.75m cap number this year and it sounds like Bradberry wants to get to UFA next March, which gives teams less ways to manipulate the cap hit.
just 5 teams have $15m or more in effective cap space to reasonably afford a 1 year $10m cap hit. Browns, Panthers, Dolphins, Chargers, Bengals.
so the odds not exactly in his favor to get anywhere close to the 13.4m he's on paper for right now, especially since the nyg have likely already been willing to deal him to any of those teams at a similar approximate cost for whatever they can get back.
the number only needs to be as high as whatever the alternative is where he's making less.
if it's $8m (7m bonus) the dead cap hit next year is $4.8m.
imo having him as a trade asset to bring back a 4th or 5th round pick at the deadline is worth a dead cap hit. It's almost like a reverse comp pick.
They have been honest about the plan for next season to an unprecedented level.
it's not about the season - it's about asset management.
schoen says they had compensation agreed to for him with 2 different teams.
do you cut bait now, or move paper around to hopefully cash in the asset a few months from now?
by far the best future outcome is getting a draft pick as opposed to nothing. my own belief is draft capital is more important than a modest dead cap hit, though the ease with which Schoen created 2 extra draft picks with slight trade downs gives me a little pause on that theory.
Would start thinking less and less about potential trade value
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Yes. They could designate him as a post-June 1 cut. Savings would be $11.5M instead of $10.1M, with a $1.4M dead money charge in 2023. They don’t need to wait until after June 1 though. It’s just a designation. Money doesn’t become available until June 2, which shouldn’t matter
Ryan Dunleavy
✔
@rydunleavy
Joe Schoen had a lot to say about James Bradberry today on @CartonRoberts and @TMKSESPN. I wrote it all up but the biggest news … sounds like he is about to be released for no compensation and also that #Giants had some deals in place but teams and JB couldn’t reach new contract
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Asked for injury updates during the interview, Schoen said he expects the majority of players, including Sterling Shepard and Blake Martinez, to be ready for camp. He mentioned Nick Gates and Matt Peart as possible exceptions to that.
They have been honest about the plan for next season to an unprecedented level.
it's not about the season - it's about asset management.
schoen says they had compensation agreed to for him with 2 different teams.
do you cut bait now, or move paper around to hopefully cash in the asset a few months from now?
by far the best future outcome is getting a draft pick as opposed to nothing. my own belief is draft capital is more important than a modest dead cap hit, though the ease with which Schoen created 2 extra draft picks with slight trade downs gives me a little pause on that theory.
I dont disagree with anything you're saying.
We have a tendency to overvalue our own players because of the hope that a trade transaction brings. The reality is Bradberry is a good but very well paid corner, and trading him away was never going to be what some people expected.
Not if they had Robinson rated as the better player.
I also think the ineptitude of the offense the past few seasons vs the defense which at times has played decent would sway the opinion on Robinson vs a CB to some extent.
The Giants do have some young talent at CB and drafted another in the third round.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
I love these posts. They never backfire.
Booth ends up a mediocre player and forgetful. Just feels like more whining. Aaron Robinson was a very talented kid coming out last year and has size. Did a jam up job against Kelce and Waller, even. Round 2 projection and taken in round 3. Inside/outside potential. Ran 4.39 at his pro day..
Corners often take time to develop. McKinney didn't explode until the 2nd half of the second season. Robinson to me showed enough in his rookie year that he deserves a shot in his sophomore year to start.
Just let Bradberry walk and let the young guys get their crack.
If you can get a trade without a subsidy, obviously that's ideal. But let's end this unnecessary soap opera. We don't need Bradberry.
I agree with this. They need to end it one way or another by the end of the week.
Where's the "soap opera"? They're trying to work it out. Neither side has said a single bad word about the other. Sounds like the opposite of soap opera to me.
I look forward to seeing how Aaron Robinson plays this season
but if Robinson has to start 17 games on the outside...watch out. He’s going to get shredded. I don’t get the warm and fuzzy from what I saw that he is talented to hold up.
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
I love these posts. They never backfire.
Booth ends up a mediocre player and forgetful. Just feels like more whining. Aaron Robinson was a very talented kid coming out last year and has size. Did a jam up job against Kelce and Waller, even. Round 2 projection and taken in round 3. Inside/outside potential. Ran 4.39 at his pro day..
Corners often take time to develop. McKinney didn't explode until the 2nd half of the second season. Robinson to me showed enough in his rookie year that he deserves a shot in his sophomore year to start.
Baked or fried? The sure didn't love him enough to exercise his option. Scholarship is over. Time to produce bigly or go be a backup somewhere. He is out of excuses not that the bunch on Big Blue Excuses Interactive won't issue them.
but if Robinson has to start 17 games on the outside...watch out. He’s going to get shredded. I don’t get the warm and fuzzy from what I saw that he is talented to hold up.
Just my view...
Well, this is the year to develop him. That's what coaches are supposed to do.
We bought him in the third round, which is a very respectable slot. So, let's see what we have.
Listen he's a starting corner in the league, it's just you know where we are financially, we need to sign our draft picks, practice squad, and replacement costs during the season.
I wish we could build a bot that posted this quote everytime someone posts something ignorant about the cap.
RE: RE: Oh and again not that I think 2022 is all that important
U
but if Robinson has to start 17 games on the outside...watch out. He’s going to get shredded. I don’t get the warm and fuzzy from what I saw that he is talented to hold up.
Just my view...
Well, this is the year to develop him. That's what coaches are supposed to do.
We bought him in the third round, which is a very respectable slot. So, let's see what we have.
Backup material. The guys that bought him were morons...
Yes, the Giants think so much of Robinson as an outside corner
Joe Schoen is not necessarily going on the FAN to convey truth to Giants fans.
The "unfortunately" definitely makes it sound like they are going to release him. But it could also be a negotiating tactic to get Bradberry back to the table.
Otherwise, why do you say "end of the week"? Why not just release him now? End of the week sounds like they are granting JB's agent one more shot to come to terms.
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
People have been making this same silly post for a couple years. Victory laps taken for something that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen.
RE: Yes, the Giants think so much of Robinson as an outside corner
that they were going to draft Gardner with their first draft pick
If their plan is Robinson replacing Bradberry in Wink's defense that depends on corners holding up 1-on-1 - yikes
I'm going to make a leap here and assume you know that every NFL team runs 3,4 and 5 WR sets. With Bradberry's situation, we had a dearth of corners. Therefore, targeting corners in the draft made sense. Thus, the interest in Sauce...
Not sure what more they could have done. Doesn't sound like they had an offer before the draft. I too thought they might be able to get a pick for him during or right after the draft from a team that did not address CB.
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
Yup
RE: RE: Yes, the Giants think so much of Robinson as an outside corner
that they were going to draft Gardner with their first draft pick
If their plan is Robinson replacing Bradberry in Wink's defense that depends on corners holding up 1-on-1 - yikes
I'm going to make a leap here and assume you know that every NFL team runs 3,4 and 5 WR sets. With Bradberry's situation, we had a dearth of corners. Therefore, targeting corners in the draft made sense. Thus, the interest in Sauce...
Im going to make a leap here and assume you know that there are only 2 sides to a field, so there are only 2 outside corners. The rest are slot corners
They were obviously targeting Gardner to replace Bradberry
Joe Schoen is not necessarily going on the FAN to convey truth to Giants fans.
The "unfortunately" definitely makes it sound like they are going to release him. But it could also be a negotiating tactic to get Bradberry back to the table.
Otherwise, why do you say "end of the week"? Why not just release him now? End of the week sounds like they are granting JB's agent one more shot to come to terms.
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
I think we can cut Martinez and save $3.5M+. I can live without him.
We're going to be living without him soon enough anyway. Let's one of the rookies get his reps. This applies to any roster vet that can offer cap savings; it's not just Bradberry.
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
i dont know why patrick graham's scheme always got shredded in man early in the season before they sat back in soft zones but maybe it's just not a fit for Bradberry?
or maybe he just wants more money than he's worth. 2 teams apparently liked him enough they were willing to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
but if the giants don't think he's a fit there's no way the 2 sides will agree on an extension given that teams who valued him enough to trade for him disagreed with his asking price.
without Bradberry I think there's a much better chance of Holmes outside than Robinson. Holmes played like 2000 snaps outside at UCLA and very few inside. Robinson was the opposite. Flott played both but more slit.
and i'd expect they sign a veteran for the minimum who fits the scheme. unless bradberry takes a paycut, which would be a no lose.
If I'm Bradberry I look at this way: I'm getting 2M from the Giants no matter what this season. I'm better off getting cut, and having a choice where I go, to 1) either go to a contender or 2) a system I've played well in and rebuild my value.
I know Washington has 2 solid + starters, but that's my bet.
if he gets cut i think he goes raiders depending on $
so he's going to get whatever he gets on the market. If he gets a 1/5m, he makes $5m. this isn't like logan ryan where the guarantee is higher than whatever salary he's going to get.
that's why i suspect the giants have an offer on the table equivalent to something around 1/9m or 1/10m. That's probably a little higher than what he'd get on the open market on a 1 year at this point.
Gilmore's deal is practically 1 year 9.5m deal with a 7.75m cap hit year 1 and 2m of dead money if they cut him year 2. if he plays well they have an option to keep him at 11.9m for year 2.
I haven't seen details on Mathieu's 3/33m yet but i expect it to be similar.
So if bradberry is looking to cash in 1 more time as a UFA next year, it's going to be hard for him to get what the giants will likely offer even with a paycut.
Nassib does appear to have been cut but he's still listed on OTC so not sure what the deal is there. The NFLPA has them 5m under the cap but not sure they have any means to make room.
I don't think Bradberry is going to fetch big money on the open market. My guess is he gets 1/5M (+2M from NYG). So the Raiders are easily in play.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
He specifically said negotiate extension. I assume bradberry was shooting for Xavien Howard money but getting offered Stephon Gilmore money and didn't anticipate musical chairs ending up with him on the outside looking in.
From the excerpt you posted earlier, the quote I'm referring to was:
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
From the excerpt you posted earlier, the quote I'm referring to was:
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Releasing him now after the draft and way past free Agency. He could of done it earlier, when there was still free Agency money out there.
You're blaming Joe Schoen for being put in an untenable position re Bradberry (and others) by the previous regime?
Schoen's job is to transform the Giants from laughable losers to perennial winners. It's not to insure that James Bradberry is as comfortable as possible. It's also not to repeat the mistakes of the past by throwing good money after bad.
Sounds like they gave him an option of a paycut, an "extension" or his release.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
Is that a serious question? The best thing that could happen to the Giants is Daniel Jones develops to an elite level under Daboll.
Schoen s comments indicate he s going to get that chance.
Really puzzled by your question am I a troll. Are you that locked in to your own opinion that you feel a dissenting one must be a troll.
“If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
From that interview it sound very clear that Bradberry
is not interested in modifying his pay and will be released this week.
All the talk in threads that he was worth a 3rd/4th round pick before the Draft but Schoen/Giants should hold out and wait for higher and better since there was no hurry and some teams would offer more later if they don't draft a CB. That never followed any actual logic to begin with and now it seems basically ridiculous.
So now his time in near up as a NYG. Bradberry will get released because the team is still finanically strapped by the decisions from the prior GM and they have other priority obligations to pay. The secondary has a lot of young guys now all over the place and I think Jackson is the senior member.
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
Explain how playing less shitty than backups on a bad team is evidence of elevating the team.
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
Judge was basically assured of staying until he started putting his foot in his mouth at the end of the year pressers
We don't really know this as fact. It's been speculated on but for all we know Judge was gone even if he spoke like the Dalai Lama through December of 2021.
More than likely it was the god awful losing streak and lack of competitiveness that did in Judge. That and the take a knee nonsense. And how ill prepared the backup QBs looked. And the historically bad and inept offense.
RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
RE:
djm : 9:25 am : link : reply
In comment 15699085 Matt M. said:
Quote:
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
"If Jones plays well"
I think that the other posters point - to keep Jones, the Gmen would be looking at 20-30M a year depending on whether they franchise him or not.
He would need a Brady/Manning type of year to justify that investment (and even then, you'd have the "flash in the pan" 1 year wonder question to work through given his prior history)
Giants don't have the roster for that. Let some other team make that gamble.
He was putting up decent numbers (more than Jones ever had), but never elevated the team and proved he was special.
Looking back now - they would've been better off just cutting their losses, using that salary to to invest in other team improvements, and continue their QB search.
Much like the Vikings should be doing now..
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
Nothing is lost? What about the games we're losing? What about the opportunity to look at another quarterback?
It's been nothing but losing with Jones.
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
You say this now, but I can guarantee that when Jones fails this year there will be a myriad of excuses on how it's not his fault, needs more time, etc, because that's what the Daniel Jones Defense Force has done for years.
Those comments on Jones are remarkably good backhanded compliments. They are brilliant in superficially sounding nice but not expressing any real confidence. He definitely went through multiple revisions to get something that good.
RE: Robinson hasn't done jack yet to deserve a starting spot
I think we could probably afford to kick some money down the road...we have plenty of space next year, so it would be tempting to keep him...
but I'm the end by the time the Giants are really ready to make noise JB's value will have dropped, and this opens space to let the young players develop
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
that's a net pay cut of $4.4m and kind of a "meet in the middle" number right at the AAV Gilmore got from IND.
it would likely pay out $8m as bonus with a minimum base this year, so 2 new prorated hits of $4m this year and next on the already existing void year (which currently carries a 1.36m hit).
net savings to giants $8.4m. 4.4m saved via paycut, 4m kicked to next year. Gets nyg to 14m under the cap (rookie pool costs 12.6).
presumably the nyg have given him some kind of offer like this and his agent is out there shopping it. not sure they find anything close to that number though because the giants could have easily facilitated a trade at a similar or better number even if the trade comp was basically nothing.
So in my scenario JB's choices are take a $9m check and report to camp in a week or sit around waiting for the phone to ring like Logan Ryan a couple years ago hoping something happens in the league that increases interest.
the positive of this scenario for the nyg is that via trade Bradberry becomes better trade bait because his cap # for an acquiring team would be the minimum and in the interim they get a player who has opted in/motivated to earn a new contract.
I tip my hat to Schoen, I didn't think they could improve the offense in the way they did in the draft. When they say "help the kid succeed" -- they did.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
old friend Jack Rabbit played 927 for TEN (78%)
Joe Haden played 695 for PIT (54%)
Chris Harris played 747 (64%)
Kyle Fuller played 719 (66%)
Xavier Rhodes played 638 (58%)
AJ Bouye played 401 (37%)
Jimmy Smith is out there but he's just a part timer (27%) at this point and was also considering retirement.
Bradberry would be at the top of that list because none can log the snaps and ball production he does. But how much $ is that worth over the cheaper options above? Jenkins and Fuller made 7.5 and 9.5 last year respectively, but seem very likely to make a lot less than that this year. Harris made 8.5. Presumably what he's asking his agent right now.
I tip my hat to Schoen, I didn't think they could improve the offense in the way they did in the draft. When they say "help the kid succeed" -- they did.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
And stay healthy. Durability is not talked about enough with Jones.
Eric in Li -- I think that's a very reasonable projection.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Dont forget Gates too - I suspect the best thing for both parties is adding another year to that deal. Unless he's miraculously able to compete for a starting spot in a few months.
But in the more likely event that he's starting on PUP for a few months it makes a ton of sense to add a cheap year for next year, and move a little bit of $ off this year. he gets a little extra security and instead of hitting FA without any tape post-injury he gets the security of 1 more offseason before needing to come into camp in 2023 in his contract year.
he's got $2m in non-gtd salary this year on a 3m cap hit so you could probably shave $1m off his cap number by adding a cheap year next year, him not losing any money, and the nyg not having to deal with an injury grievance.
RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Yes, can be idiots on both sides, but, Sean, Come on yourself. All in, with the same or worse OL, with SS hurt/out, KT hurt or out most games, Slayton being Slayton, and KG--don't know what to say. SB being the underside of SB last year. Part of your comment that I bolded is such facile spin on your part, you're better than that.
I am in the JS/BD camp: not that I think DJ is a lock to be an elite or franchise QB, at all, but that he is the starter for now and we will evaluate him in the context of 2022's roster and coaching staff. And whatever number of games he's on the field in '22, we'll assess at that time and make the best decision at QB for NYG--and which is not at all necessarily to re-sign him.
I’m not saying the team wasn’t constructed poorly, the OL was neglected. However, the plan was to go all in on guys like Golladay, Jackson, Rudolph & Toney to try to win a crappy division. Schoen/Daboll are paying for those consequences now.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
I tend to agree, and I think the up hill got steeper in BD/Kafka read quick/get the ball out quick to your receivers either wide or in the slot, not necessarily the longer fly or post patterns where Jones has had some success.
Aside from the apparent desire to hit FA asap, I agree with others that he seems not to want to be with NYG, and maybe the Logan Ryan fallout stuck in his craw. Were they known to be close? Of course, a franchise mired in losing helps hasten the break-up, and Gettleman never minded overpaying to overcome that small disincentive to signing.
Aside from the apparent desire to hit FA asap, I agree with others that he seems not to want to be with NYG, and maybe the Logan Ryan fallout stuck in his craw. Were they known to be close? Of course, a franchise mired in losing helps hasten the break-up, and Gettleman never minded overpaying to overcome that small disincentive to signing.
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions.
i think it's pretty easy to guess those 2 teams possibly included KC (who traded up for McDuffie) or IND (who signed Gilmore) or the Bills who got Elam or other teams who have since drafted or signed other players and moved on.
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions....
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
Not grasping 'the opposite: His agents were negotiating with other teams but couldn't agree to terms, money, or, up to this point, with NYG. I don't see anything there that would suggest he was inclined to remain here even under the new regime. As to misjudging the market, seems so, but again nothing in that to suggest he didn't want out of here.
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Schoen def didn't just poo poo the question either. He said sometimes he has to deal with some leaks that make no sense and he has to call and agent or player to say that is not true blah blah blah.
But he did insinuate, especially from the local media, stuff does come out, and he tries to find where that source came from. Interesting...
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
I mean JonC basically said that Tim McDonnell has loose lips. We also know that from the Brian Flores lawsuit where Tim McDonnell overstepped his bounds when he is not a decision maker telling a coach to go "win the f*cking job".
Isn't it a pretty well known that Pettit got really close to Tim? I mean if Tim thinks he is going to be doing anything not worthy for Joe Schoen he has another thing coming. Sounds like Chris Mara and Tim M migth just be filing scouting reports and Joe is probably going to throw them in the trash LOL.
Hopefully after these firings Joe brings in some guys he trusts so that continues to push all the nepotism down the decision pole.
Chris Mara's scouting reports go in the player evaluation database
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
RE: Chris Mara's scouting reports go in the player evaluation database
Been meaning to post this (sorry if already has) since Thursday morning 4/28 or so. GoDeep has had a pretty decent record at asshattery, best as I recall. What struck and stuck with me from his last pre-draft post was, to the effect I think, that the Giants were pretty much all in on one, or more, of the OTs, whether Cross, Neal, Ickey.
What he did say w/o qualification iirc was that--per his source(s)--the Giants were not going to go Edge on Thursday, and indeed there was way more talk about Cross than KT, Jr. And, of course, JG went right at KT, Jr. at #5 not to risk CAR taking or trading down. Whether deliberate plant of disinformation to identify potential leakers or just effective smokescreen, I thought his post, which of course got a ton of looks and comments, was interesting. Not saying or directing anything at all negative about GD13, he tells us what he hears and it's only as good as the source.
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
It will be better than his rookie year by decent margin. Jones was not good as a rookie you, I agree. I will admit the stats looked decent for a rookie though. He is going to get Josh Allen's year 1&2 system. If Toney, Barkley and Robinson are healthy, they are going to catch short passes with a ton of YAC, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how that is going to compile stats. They made early Josh Allen stats look better by flipping the jet sweeps. You can't find an easier completion and those three are going to break some. It just is going to happen. I think you are going to see something like:
4k+ yards 69% completion and 30-40 TDs rushing and passing combined over 17 games. We win 7-9 games depending on how balls bounce. Those stats are going to be earned by the skill players. Jones is not going to be pushing the ball downfield that much. The Chiefs were doing bad early last year because Mahomes was waiting on the big play. Once they got him to get it out quick to the playmakers the Chiefs started rolling. This offense will driven by skill players and playcalling/scheming by the OC. This will not be a QB driven system. He is going to do well.
Colhowpepper what's opposite is JB probably stands to make more $
Logan Ryan's decision was likely a very binary one, play for the giants or play for tampa. money equal (or even better in tampa bc of taxes).
James Bradberry had the chance to get traded elsewhere twice and instead of being willing to accept what 2 teams that wanted him thought was FMV, he chose to remain a NYG and potentially become a cap casualty with minimal safety net.
Logan Ryan knew he was guaranteed 5m this year no matter what, and likely also knew his open market value wasn't above that. His year was essentially locked in no matter where he played.
James Bradberry's range of potential salary this year were completely different.
There was the amount the teams who tried to trade for him offered him. (10-11m aav?)
The salary terms of his current deal, which the nyg were willing to eat in part to facilitate a trade. (13.4m)
And there's the situation he's in now - where he could face an open market without much available cap $. (5m? 7m?)
turning down the other 2 teams to stay on the giants seems like a mistake - and one i dont think a player who wanted out would have made. but i guess we will find out tomorrow.
Bradberry must be presuming one or both of those teams will up
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
Here you go, Aces. Breer wrote this last May, although if you changed the date to 2022 you probably wouldn't know the difference
I get where you are coming from now; my thought on alignment with Ryan wasn't on the contract dollars saved or waived (forsaken), on either side, player or NYG, so much as IF he was tight with LR, it might have colored his outlook if he had been thinking of re-upping. Your analysis has been pretty drill down on both of them from the get-go, so no arguments from me. Bradberry and his camp have been pretty opaque in terms of reading his financial interests/bottom lines.
so here's a different but maybe important question re bradberry
finances aside, what kind of role could Wink build for him in this defense to earn a big contract next year?
after all if he was turning down extensions and his priority was hitting UFA again, the most important thing for him is being in a situation where he can play well this year.
if he were an obvious fit for wink's scheme i think this probably would have been solved already so i think we can assume he's not, probably because he's a better zone corner than press man. but if they had no use of him he'd have been cut already.
there have been some loose rumors about him possibly in more of a safety role but having never played deep and not having speed that seems unlikely in the traditional safety sense. what might make sense is playing him in the star type position as a matchup player.
He has been a pretty good blitzer and 2 years ago was a very solid tackler. In man concepts maybe they can match him up where his length can help him against TEs like Goedert, Schultz, Thomas. Maybe some bigger WRs like Gallup, AJB. They also play DK Metcalf, Mark Andrews, and Michael Pittman next year. Justin Jefferson and Treylon Burks as well.
Wink's D has featured some very creative usage of DBs and while Chuck Clark is much more of a traditional safety, there's definitely a blitzing DB role available and Bradberry may be the best fit for it other than McKinney (who is also probably the best candidate to play centerfield so you may not want him blitzing too much). Almost like the Deon Grant/Antrel Rolle in the slot role.
I get where you are coming from now; my thought on alignment with Ryan wasn't on the contract dollars saved or waived (forsaken), on either side, player or NYG, so much as IF he was tight with LR, it might have colored his outlook if he had been thinking of re-upping. Your analysis has been pretty drill down on both of them from the get-go, so no arguments from me. Bradberry and his camp have been pretty opaque in terms of reading his financial interests/bottom lines.
yeah ultimately i think both players were given chances to stay on nyg terms. ryan chose to leave. bradberry may choose exactly the same, though i think it's possible it may be against his financial interest to do so, so he may choose the opposite because he kind of did exactly that by defacto veto'ing the 2 trades.
“There’s a situation where we could convert the salary [into a bonus] and kick it down the road,” Schoen said, “but that’s why we are in the situation we are in, because of moves like that — which we are trying to avoid. … It’s unfortunate that his contract is structured in a way that he is one of the few you can move on from and it wouldn’t kill you. That’s what I’ve been fighting over the last three months and continue to wrestle with.”
QB Hell, Cap Hell, Roster Hell, Culture Hell, Leak Hell...
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
Really? So, after year 4, with a new contract necessary, if he plays well (to me that means just decent) we have our QB? You are willing to invest more years at over $20M/per for an OK QB with a roster still under construction? That's insane to me.
Some of the same takes were delivered when Leonard Williams had the season of his life in a contract year and people insisted he should be paid any amount to keep him.
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "If Daniel can stay on his feet there are enough weapons on the team right now we can be a competitive team and get our best version of Daniel Jones."
✔
@ZackBlatt
Joe Schoen said on WFAN that there should be a resolution to the James Bradberry situation by the end of the week. #Giants
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660 "We love Daniel Jones... we think he is a win-with player." Says not using the option is "not an indictment" or a signal that their feelings have changed.
✔
@ZackBlatt
Joe Schoen on the lack of a trade market for James Bradberry: “I thought there would be more interest.” #Giants
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
Really sucks if they release him now. He missed the freeagent period so the Giants played hardball with him. Don't like separations like this.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
Really sucks if they release him now. He missed the freeagent period so the Giants played hardball with him. Don't like separations like this.
yes, and IF this is true, it’s the closest Schoen has come to a miscue since he’s been here - otherwise he’s been masterful.
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
He forced himself out. Gave his employer every reason to can him.
Certainly got a raw deal here as well not denying that but he had to do many things wrong to put himself in a situation to get fired and he did those many things.
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
The talk about a couple of teams being interested him (coming from Schoen himself) must have been BS. Mara's comments at the owner's meeting didn't help, but probably did not impact this.
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
The talk about a couple of teams being interested him (coming from Schoen himself) must have been BS. Mara's comments at the owner's meeting didn't help, but probably did not impact this.
agreed. designate him a post June 1 cut, pick up $10 mill in cap space and move on.
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
Quote:
Ryan Dunleavy
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
He forced himself out. Gave his employer every reason to can him.
Certainly got a raw deal here as well not denying that but he had to do many things wrong to put himself in a situation to get fired and he did those many things.
Seriously...national media forced Judge out? OK, sure...
Kay: what another JB?
JS: we'll have a resolution by the end of the week. It sucks because he's a good player, still a starting CB.
Definitely sounds like he's gone
Kay: what another JB?
JS: we'll have a resolution by the end of the week. It sucks because he's a good player, still a starting CB.
Definitely sounds like he's gone
*What about
Schoen ate his $2M signing bonus because he thought he'd be able to trade him. The fact that true out to be false doesn't mean it wasn't a reasonable assumption.
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
Judge being a terrible coach and getting worse every week cost him his job. Not to mention the clown show he put on during his press conferences.
How on earth could an owner bring a coach with that performance back?
✔
@rydunleavy
It's strange listening to #Giants Joe Schoen GM talk about the national vs. local media dynamic and how tough NY media is.
By all accounts, NY media thought Joe Judge deserved to be back. Had been told he would have rope and operated like it. National media forced him out.
Dunleavy strikes me as not too bright and over self-important with this line.
The MEDIA is a lot more than the beats who cover the team, especially now. Social media (which all the players have and pay a lot of attention to), talk radio, etc - there's more of it here in NY. Who cares about the beats lol.
I hope that's a joke...
unless I misheard, Schoen just confirmed he had compensation in place for JB trades but the other teams couldn't agree to extensions with JB. Takeaway being James Bradberry the player had trade value pre teams filling their needs in UFA/Draft. I personally wouldn't rush to cut a player with trade value because you never know when a team will lose a player to injury or suspension and all of sudden be back in the market. If Bradberry plays decent it's highly likely there's a trade market before the deadline.
the most (only?) logical thing holding up a decision at this point is financial. Do they have an extension on the table? If he declines, is their backup plan to release him or just restructure?
the best thing for his trade value would be a restructure, so i think that's what happens. And perhaps only as much as they need to sign their draft picks for now.
This really sucks because our secondary is going to get lit up. Don't see this ending well, personally.
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
I agree 100%.
We have our book ends for the next 8-10 years. I would be shocked otherwise.
This really sucks because our secondary is going to get lit up. Don't see this ending well, personally.
Tanking for Stroud/Young. This is still a bad football team even with Bradberry. Just compare the roster to the other teams in the division,
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Quote:
In comment 15698557 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
A: "Yeah I was. I thought there'd be more interest. There were some teams that showed interest pre-draft and we had a couple different times there were compensation in place and the contract never worked out. Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is. Again, great kid, agents been great, great conversations and at some point we'll have a resolution by the end of the week."
now on the flip side, on a re-listen in the answer to the prior question he used the word "unfortunate" because "because he's a great kid" which would seemingly imply something negative upcoming, like an impending release into a market that doesn't have $13.4m unspent dollars in it for this year.
A: "Yeah we're working through that right now. His agents have been great, we've been in constant communication. I've talked to James, it's been very professional throughout the whole process, and we should have some resolution hopefully by the end of the week. It's unfortunate because he's a great kid, I know a lot about him when i was in buffalo Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott were in Carolina when they drafted him and always spoken very highly of the kid, and listen he's a starting corner in the league, it's just you know where we are financially, we need to sign our draft picks, practice squad, and replacement costs during the season."
But ideally our qb would be a win because of player.
1 guess is they offered him a pay cut of some sort. Sort of like a hybrid paycut/restructure but if he doesn't take it they will cut him outright.
reduce the amount you were going to make from $13.4m to 10m, with $9m of that as signing bonus paid up front.
that way it only puts about $4.5m on to next year's cap and keeps the player (at a very tradable minimum salary).
Quote:
Q: Are you surprised there wasn't that robust a trade market for him (Bradberry)?
A: "Yeah I was. I thought there'd be more interest. There were some teams that showed interest pre-draft and we had a couple different times there were compensation in place and the contract never worked out. Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is. Again, great kid, agents been great, great conversations and at some point we'll have a resolution by the end of the week."
now on the flip side, on a re-listen in the answer to the prior question he used the word "unfortunate" because "because he's a great kid" which would seemingly imply something negative upcoming, like an impending release into a market that doesn't have $13.4m unspent dollars in it for this year.
Quote:
Q: What's the status of James Bradberry, is he going to be on this team to start the year?
A: "Yeah we're working through that right now. His agents have been great, we've been in constant communication. I've talked to James, it's been very professional throughout the whole process, and we should have some resolution hopefully by the end of the week. It's unfortunate because he's a great kid, I know a lot about him when i was in buffalo Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott were in Carolina when they drafted him and always spoken very highly of the kid, and listen he's a starting corner in the league, it's just you know where we are financially, we need to sign our draft picks, practice squad, and replacement costs during the season."
Thanks for supplying this. Indeed it sounds like release.
Maybe he communicated to Team JB to think through again what a restructured deal looks like that helps both sides, and he has until Friday to stipulate otherwise he is released.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
Yup. I give Schoen a lot of credit for how he's seemingly played this. It seems like Bradberry's contract demands scuttled their plan A, and even still he's kept things respectful with his public comments. No bridges burned.
He said he let the agents go out there and have conversations. The right move. Don't let them live in a fantasy land that the grass is greener. Go find the better deal.
It seems he's willing to accept whatever outcome transpires even though it's unlikely not ideal, but he's played the scenario out to try to extract value as best he can. Bradberry's contract demands and the way UFA/draft fell may have just broken against him.
If Bradberry wants out I think they will let him out like Logan Ryan. If he wants in I think he will have to say yes on their terms. Ryan's contract gave him a lot more leverage to walk though.
Quote:
Tom Rock
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Joe Schoen on @WFAN660: "I think right tackle is a perfect fit for (Neal) right now... To plug him in at right tackle will be a really good fit for him."
I agree 100%.
We have our book ends for the next 8-10 years. I would be shocked otherwise.
I'm not sure that "right now" portends a 10 year plan
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
Might need even a bit more salary cut...not liking a dead cap exceeding $5M at first blush.
Nevertheless, good thoughts. My guess is JB doesn't give but who the hell knows...
Quote:
In comment 15698588 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15698557 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
Wtf? Why are Booth and Gordon long term fixes but Robinson is a short term fix? Because you wanted Booth or Gordon more? You act like Robinson is 32 years old with one year left on his contract….
If you can get a trade without a subsidy, obviously that's ideal. But let's end this unnecessary soap opera. We don't need Bradberry.
Quote:
the scenario i just laid out above where he cuts his salary $3.4m would play out like this (i think, can't recall another paycut restructure like this).
JB makes $10m this year, $9m converted to bonus, still hits UFA next year. Don't think he'd do better on the open market (Gilmore essentially got 1 year $9.5m).
His cap $ this year would go down to just under $14m, saving the nyg 9m+.
next year his already existing void year would carry about $5.8m of dead cap.
the key though is as a trade asset his value would go up because he'd basically count as the minimum for a team trading for him.
guess we'll see in the next few days but that is a scenario that fits with everything Schoen said.
Might need even a bit more salary cut...not liking a dead cap exceeding $5M at first blush.
Nevertheless, good thoughts. My guess is JB doesn't give but who the hell knows...
If i had to be on over or under the 10m i'd probably bet under. Gilmore is on a 7.75m cap number this year and it sounds like Bradberry wants to get to UFA next March, which gives teams less ways to manipulate the cap hit.
just 5 teams have $15m or more in effective cap space to reasonably afford a 1 year $10m cap hit. Browns, Panthers, Dolphins, Chargers, Bengals.
so the odds not exactly in his favor to get anywhere close to the 13.4m he's on paper for right now, especially since the nyg have likely already been willing to deal him to any of those teams at a similar approximate cost for whatever they can get back.
the number only needs to be as high as whatever the alternative is where he's making less.
if it's $8m (7m bonus) the dead cap hit next year is $4.8m.
imo having him as a trade asset to bring back a 4th or 5th round pick at the deadline is worth a dead cap hit. It's almost like a reverse comp pick.
it's not about the season - it's about asset management.
schoen says they had compensation agreed to for him with 2 different teams.
do you cut bait now, or move paper around to hopefully cash in the asset a few months from now?
by far the best future outcome is getting a draft pick as opposed to nothing. my own belief is draft capital is more important than a modest dead cap hit, though the ease with which Schoen created 2 extra draft picks with slight trade downs gives me a little pause on that theory.
They just aren't going to be in demand as much as one would hope...
✔
@DDuggan21
Yes. They could designate him as a post-June 1 cut. Savings would be $11.5M instead of $10.1M, with a $1.4M dead money charge in 2023. They don’t need to wait until after June 1 though. It’s just a designation. Money doesn’t become available until June 2, which shouldn’t matter
✔
@rydunleavy
Joe Schoen had a lot to say about James Bradberry today on @CartonRoberts and @TMKSESPN. I wrote it all up but the biggest news … sounds like he is about to be released for no compensation and also that #Giants had some deals in place but teams and JB couldn’t reach new contract
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Asked for injury updates during the interview, Schoen said he expects the majority of players, including Sterling Shepard and Blake Martinez, to be ready for camp. He mentioned Nick Gates and Matt Peart as possible exceptions to that.
Quote:
They have been honest about the plan for next season to an unprecedented level.
it's not about the season - it's about asset management.
schoen says they had compensation agreed to for him with 2 different teams.
do you cut bait now, or move paper around to hopefully cash in the asset a few months from now?
by far the best future outcome is getting a draft pick as opposed to nothing. my own belief is draft capital is more important than a modest dead cap hit, though the ease with which Schoen created 2 extra draft picks with slight trade downs gives me a little pause on that theory.
I dont disagree with anything you're saying.
We have a tendency to overvalue our own players because of the hope that a trade transaction brings. The reality is Bradberry is a good but very well paid corner, and trading him away was never going to be what some people expected.
I also think the ineptitude of the offense the past few seasons vs the defense which at times has played decent would sway the opinion on Robinson vs a CB to some extent.
The Giants do have some young talent at CB and drafted another in the third round.
Quote:
In comment 15698588 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15698557 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
I love these posts. They never backfire.
Booth ends up a mediocre player and forgetful. Just feels like more whining. Aaron Robinson was a very talented kid coming out last year and has size. Did a jam up job against Kelce and Waller, even. Round 2 projection and taken in round 3. Inside/outside potential. Ran 4.39 at his pro day..
Corners often take time to develop. McKinney didn't explode until the 2nd half of the second season. Robinson to me showed enough in his rookie year that he deserves a shot in his sophomore year to start.
Not entirely true. Dunleavy's own paper the NY Post, specifically Steve Serby wrote an article that Judge needs to be fired.
Bradberry has been handsomely paid by the New York Giants. He will be fine.
If you can get a trade without a subsidy, obviously that's ideal. But let's end this unnecessary soap opera. We don't need Bradberry.
I agree with this. They need to end it one way or another by the end of the week.
Quote:
Just let Bradberry walk and let the young guys get their crack.
If you can get a trade without a subsidy, obviously that's ideal. But let's end this unnecessary soap opera. We don't need Bradberry.
I agree with this. They need to end it one way or another by the end of the week.
Where's the "soap opera"? They're trying to work it out. Neither side has said a single bad word about the other. Sounds like the opposite of soap opera to me.
That would qualify as a resolution...not likely but would be something.
Just my view...
So what? How is he fucked over, he will be making millions off the Gmen without even playing for them.
Quote:
In comment 15698630 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15698588 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15698557 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Dan Duggan
✔
@DDuggan21
Joe Schoen said on WFAN they should have resolution on James Bradberry by the end of the week. This is obviously headed toward his release, probably sooner than later.
So they’re going to release him after passing on Andrew Booth last week?
You need to stop thinking this is 1 -year fix. It's going to take another year or two on top of this one.
Replacing Bradberry with Booth, or Gordon, would have been perfectly in line with a long term fix. Robinson is going for the quick fix.
I love these posts. They never backfire.
Booth ends up a mediocre player and forgetful. Just feels like more whining. Aaron Robinson was a very talented kid coming out last year and has size. Did a jam up job against Kelce and Waller, even. Round 2 projection and taken in round 3. Inside/outside potential. Ran 4.39 at his pro day..
Corners often take time to develop. McKinney didn't explode until the 2nd half of the second season. Robinson to me showed enough in his rookie year that he deserves a shot in his sophomore year to start.
Not that Robinson
Gonna be awkward when he gets benched for TT
Link - ( New Window )
Just my view...
Well, this is the year to develop him. That's what coaches are supposed to do.
We bought him in the third round, which is a very respectable slot. So, let's see what we have.
Why is that 'good to hear'? Are you trolling?
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
Quote:
Good to hear.
Gonna be awkward when he gets benched for TT
I see this happening, I don't see Jones being productive in a quick read, quick throw offense
I wish we could build a bot that posted this quote everytime someone posts something ignorant about the cap.
Quote:
U
but if Robinson has to start 17 games on the outside...watch out. He’s going to get shredded. I don’t get the warm and fuzzy from what I saw that he is talented to hold up.
Just my view...
Well, this is the year to develop him. That's what coaches are supposed to do.
We bought him in the third round, which is a very respectable slot. So, let's see what we have.
Backup material. The guys that bought him were morons...
If their plan is Robinson replacing Bradberry in Wink's defense that depends on corners holding up 1-on-1 - yikes
We bought him in the third round, which is a very respectable slot. So, let's see what we have.
They can't upgrade every position, and with the dreadful financial situation Rabbit Foot Dave left, some positions will take a step back or stand pat.
QB, RB, corner, safety, TE, inside & middle linebacker, and interior d-line have to dance with who they brought to prom.
Romen wasn't ... well ya know.
The "unfortunately" definitely makes it sound like they are going to release him. But it could also be a negotiating tactic to get Bradberry back to the table.
Otherwise, why do you say "end of the week"? Why not just release him now? End of the week sounds like they are granting JB's agent one more shot to come to terms.
Quote:
Good to hear.
Why is that 'good to hear'? Are you trolling?
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
People have been making this same silly post for a couple years. Victory laps taken for something that hasn't happened and isn't going to happen.
If their plan is Robinson replacing Bradberry in Wink's defense that depends on corners holding up 1-on-1 - yikes
I'm going to make a leap here and assume you know that every NFL team runs 3,4 and 5 WR sets. With Bradberry's situation, we had a dearth of corners. Therefore, targeting corners in the draft made sense. Thus, the interest in Sauce...
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
Can't force a trading partner. He as as patient as he could have been.
Yup
Quote:
that they were going to draft Gardner with their first draft pick
If their plan is Robinson replacing Bradberry in Wink's defense that depends on corners holding up 1-on-1 - yikes
I'm going to make a leap here and assume you know that every NFL team runs 3,4 and 5 WR sets. With Bradberry's situation, we had a dearth of corners. Therefore, targeting corners in the draft made sense. Thus, the interest in Sauce...
Im going to make a leap here and assume you know that there are only 2 sides to a field, so there are only 2 outside corners. The rest are slot corners
They were obviously targeting Gardner to replace Bradberry
The "unfortunately" definitely makes it sound like they are going to release him. But it could also be a negotiating tactic to get Bradberry back to the table.
Otherwise, why do you say "end of the week"? Why not just release him now? End of the week sounds like they are granting JB's agent one more shot to come to terms.
glad I wasnt the only one thinking this.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
I think we can cut Martinez and save $3.5M+. I can live without him.
Quote:
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
I think we can cut Martinez and save $3.5M+. I can live without him.
We're going to be living without him soon enough anyway. Let's one of the rookies get his reps. This applies to any roster vet that can offer cap savings; it's not just Bradberry.
Quote:
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
Quote:
In comment 15698869 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
Ah that's right. Too bad.
If I were Bardberry and forced to take a pay cut, I'd refuse and let them cut me. Then sign a 1 year contract with a contender this season.
or maybe he just wants more money than he's worth. 2 teams apparently liked him enough they were willing to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
but if the giants don't think he's a fit there's no way the 2 sides will agree on an extension given that teams who valued him enough to trade for him disagreed with his asking price.
without Bradberry I think there's a much better chance of Holmes outside than Robinson. Holmes played like 2000 snaps outside at UCLA and very few inside. Robinson was the opposite. Flott played both but more slit.
and i'd expect they sign a veteran for the minimum who fits the scheme. unless bradberry takes a paycut, which would be a no lose.
I know Washington has 2 solid + starters, but that's my bet.
he'd be a really good matchup weapon in that division. he did a good job on Kelce, could help against Mike Williams, Sutton.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
Yup. He was designated a post June 1 cut. Raiders can't spend that money for 3 weeks. But he could definitely land there.
that's why i suspect the giants have an offer on the table equivalent to something around 1/9m or 1/10m. That's probably a little higher than what he'd get on the open market on a 1 year at this point.
Gilmore's deal is practically 1 year 9.5m deal with a 7.75m cap hit year 1 and 2m of dead money if they cut him year 2. if he plays well they have an option to keep him at 11.9m for year 2.
I haven't seen details on Mathieu's 3/33m yet but i expect it to be similar.
So if bradberry is looking to cash in 1 more time as a UFA next year, it's going to be hard for him to get what the giants will likely offer even with a paycut.
Nassib does appear to have been cut but he's still listed on OTC so not sure what the deal is there. The NFLPA has them 5m under the cap but not sure they have any means to make room.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
He specifically said negotiate extension. I assume bradberry was shooting for Xavien Howard money but getting offered Stephon Gilmore money and didn't anticipate musical chairs ending up with him on the outside looking in.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
You're blaming Joe Schoen for being put in an untenable position re Bradberry (and others) by the previous regime?
Schoen's job is to transform the Giants from laughable losers to perennial winners. It's not to insure that James Bradberry is as comfortable as possible. It's also not to repeat the mistakes of the past by throwing good money after bad.
Joe Schoen Talks Expectations, QB, & James Bradberry! [Full Interview] - ( New Window )
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
Agreed
Quote:
In comment 15698716 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Good to hear.
Why is that 'good to hear'? Are you trolling?
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
Is that a serious question? The best thing that could happen to the Giants is Daniel Jones develops to an elite level under Daboll.
Schoen s comments indicate he s going to get that chance.
Really puzzled by your question am I a troll. Are you that locked in to your own opinion that you feel a dissenting one must be a troll.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
All the talk in threads that he was worth a 3rd/4th round pick before the Draft but Schoen/Giants should hold out and wait for higher and better since there was no hurry and some teams would offer more later if they don't draft a CB. That never followed any actual logic to begin with and now it seems basically ridiculous.
So now his time in near up as a NYG. Bradberry will get released because the team is still finanically strapped by the decisions from the prior GM and they have other priority obligations to pay. The secondary has a lot of young guys now all over the place and I think Jackson is the senior member.
Quote:
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
We don't really know this as fact. It's been speculated on but for all we know Judge was gone even if he spoke like the Dalai Lama through December of 2021.
More than likely it was the god awful losing streak and lack of competitiveness that did in Judge. That and the take a knee nonsense. And how ill prepared the backup QBs looked. And the historically bad and inept offense.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
djm : 9:25 am : link : reply
In comment 15699085 Matt M. said:
Quote:
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
"If Jones plays well"
I think that the other posters point - to keep Jones, the Gmen would be looking at 20-30M a year depending on whether they franchise him or not.
He would need a Brady/Manning type of year to justify that investment (and even then, you'd have the "flash in the pan" 1 year wonder question to work through given his prior history)
Giants don't have the roster for that. Let some other team make that gamble.
He was putting up decent numbers (more than Jones ever had), but never elevated the team and proved he was special.
Looking back now - they would've been better off just cutting their losses, using that salary to to invest in other team improvements, and continue their QB search.
Much like the Vikings should be doing now..
Nothing is lost? What about the games we're losing? What about the opportunity to look at another quarterback?
It's been nothing but losing with Jones.
Quote:
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
You say this now, but I can guarantee that when Jones fails this year there will be a myriad of excuses on how it's not his fault, needs more time, etc, because that's what the Daniel Jones Defense Force has done for years.
On the 2022 version of the Giants, the most important ability that many players possess is affordability.
but I'm the end by the time the Giants are really ready to make noise JB's value will have dropped, and this opens space to let the young players develop
Quote:
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
that's a net pay cut of $4.4m and kind of a "meet in the middle" number right at the AAV Gilmore got from IND.
it would likely pay out $8m as bonus with a minimum base this year, so 2 new prorated hits of $4m this year and next on the already existing void year (which currently carries a 1.36m hit).
net savings to giants $8.4m. 4.4m saved via paycut, 4m kicked to next year. Gets nyg to 14m under the cap (rookie pool costs 12.6).
presumably the nyg have given him some kind of offer like this and his agent is out there shopping it. not sure they find anything close to that number though because the giants could have easily facilitated a trade at a similar or better number even if the trade comp was basically nothing.
So in my scenario JB's choices are take a $9m check and report to camp in a week or sit around waiting for the phone to ring like Logan Ryan a couple years ago hoping something happens in the league that increases interest.
the positive of this scenario for the nyg is that via trade Bradberry becomes better trade bait because his cap # for an acquiring team would be the minimum and in the interim they get a player who has opted in/motivated to earn a new contract.
Dan Jones is the QB and were going to see what he can do this season -JS
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Joe Haden played 695 for PIT (54%)
Chris Harris played 747 (64%)
Kyle Fuller played 719 (66%)
Xavier Rhodes played 638 (58%)
AJ Bouye played 401 (37%)
Jimmy Smith is out there but he's just a part timer (27%) at this point and was also considering retirement.
Bradberry would be at the top of that list because none can log the snaps and ball production he does. But how much $ is that worth over the cheaper options above? Jenkins and Fuller made 7.5 and 9.5 last year respectively, but seem very likely to make a lot less than that this year. Harris made 8.5. Presumably what he's asking his agent right now.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
And stay healthy. Durability is not talked about enough with Jones.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Dont forget Gates too - I suspect the best thing for both parties is adding another year to that deal. Unless he's miraculously able to compete for a starting spot in a few months.
But in the more likely event that he's starting on PUP for a few months it makes a ton of sense to add a cheap year for next year, and move a little bit of $ off this year. he gets a little extra security and instead of hitting FA without any tape post-injury he gets the security of 1 more offseason before needing to come into camp in 2023 in his contract year.
he's got $2m in non-gtd salary this year on a 3m cap hit so you could probably shave $1m off his cap number by adding a cheap year next year, him not losing any money, and the nyg not having to deal with an injury grievance.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
I am in the JS/BD camp: not that I think DJ is a lock to be an elite or franchise QB, at all, but that he is the starter for now and we will evaluate him in the context of 2022's roster and coaching staff. And whatever number of games he's on the field in '22, we'll assess at that time and make the best decision at QB for NYG--and which is not at all necessarily to re-sign him.
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions.
i think it's pretty easy to guess those 2 teams possibly included KC (who traded up for McDuffie) or IND (who signed Gilmore) or the Bills who got Elam or other teams who have since drafted or signed other players and moved on.
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
btw I just googled "james bradberry agents" and this story was the first thing that came up from March 2021.
Giants’ James Bradberry’s faith in young agent results in great success for both - ( New Window )
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
He said that? Wow.
Quote:
"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
He said that? Wow.
I just listened to it and I think I slightly misquoted him. I saved the spot where he said it but its close:
https://youtu.be/EXCFRkPCCj0?t=822
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Quote:
"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Schoen def didn't just poo poo the question either. He said sometimes he has to deal with some leaks that make no sense and he has to call and agent or player to say that is not true blah blah blah.
But he did insinuate, especially from the local media, stuff does come out, and he tries to find where that source came from. Interesting...
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
Quote:
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
I mean JonC basically said that Tim McDonnell has loose lips. We also know that from the Brian Flores lawsuit where Tim McDonnell overstepped his bounds when he is not a decision maker telling a coach to go "win the f*cking job".
Isn't it a pretty well known that Pettit got really close to Tim? I mean if Tim thinks he is going to be doing anything not worthy for Joe Schoen he has another thing coming. Sounds like Chris Mara and Tim M migth just be filing scouting reports and Joe is probably going to throw them in the trash LOL.
Hopefully after these firings Joe brings in some guys he trusts so that continues to push all the nepotism down the decision pole.
Joe doesn't have to throw them in the trash to disreagrd them...
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Joe doesn't have to throw them in the trash to disreagrd them...
it was a figure of speech...
Been meaning to post this (sorry if already has) since Thursday morning 4/28 or so. GoDeep has had a pretty decent record at asshattery, best as I recall. What struck and stuck with me from his last pre-draft post was, to the effect I think, that the Giants were pretty much all in on one, or more, of the OTs, whether Cross, Neal, Ickey.
What he did say w/o qualification iirc was that--per his source(s)--the Giants were not going to go Edge on Thursday, and indeed there was way more talk about Cross than KT, Jr. And, of course, JG went right at KT, Jr. at #5 not to risk CAR taking or trading down. Whether deliberate plant of disinformation to identify potential leakers or just effective smokescreen, I thought his post, which of course got a ton of looks and comments, was interesting. Not saying or directing anything at all negative about GD13, he tells us what he hears and it's only as good as the source.
Quote:
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
4k+ yards 69% completion and 30-40 TDs rushing and passing combined over 17 games. We win 7-9 games depending on how balls bounce. Those stats are going to be earned by the skill players. Jones is not going to be pushing the ball downfield that much. The Chiefs were doing bad early last year because Mahomes was waiting on the big play. Once they got him to get it out quick to the playmakers the Chiefs started rolling. This offense will driven by skill players and playcalling/scheming by the OC. This will not be a QB driven system. He is going to do well.
Logan Ryan's decision was likely a very binary one, play for the giants or play for tampa. money equal (or even better in tampa bc of taxes).
James Bradberry had the chance to get traded elsewhere twice and instead of being willing to accept what 2 teams that wanted him thought was FMV, he chose to remain a NYG and potentially become a cap casualty with minimal safety net.
Logan Ryan knew he was guaranteed 5m this year no matter what, and likely also knew his open market value wasn't above that. His year was essentially locked in no matter where he played.
James Bradberry's range of potential salary this year were completely different.
There was the amount the teams who tried to trade for him offered him. (10-11m aav?)
The salary terms of his current deal, which the nyg were willing to eat in part to facilitate a trade. (13.4m)
And there's the situation he's in now - where he could face an open market without much available cap $. (5m? 7m?)
turning down the other 2 teams to stay on the giants seems like a mistake - and one i dont think a player who wanted out would have made. but i guess we will find out tomorrow.
Either that or this guy is totally braindead...
Either that or this guy is totally braindead...
I'd bet a decent amount 1 of those teams was the Colts before signing Gilmore - who got 2 years 20m a week or so before the draft.
I'd guess the other team may have been KC or Buffalo - who each drafted corners in round 1.
He may be staring into the abyss.
Quote:
In comment 15699316 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
Here you go, Aces. Breer wrote this last May, although if you changed the date to 2022 you probably wouldn't know the difference
Link - ( New Window )
after all if he was turning down extensions and his priority was hitting UFA again, the most important thing for him is being in a situation where he can play well this year.
if he were an obvious fit for wink's scheme i think this probably would have been solved already so i think we can assume he's not, probably because he's a better zone corner than press man. but if they had no use of him he'd have been cut already.
there have been some loose rumors about him possibly in more of a safety role but having never played deep and not having speed that seems unlikely in the traditional safety sense. what might make sense is playing him in the star type position as a matchup player.
He has been a pretty good blitzer and 2 years ago was a very solid tackler. In man concepts maybe they can match him up where his length can help him against TEs like Goedert, Schultz, Thomas. Maybe some bigger WRs like Gallup, AJB. They also play DK Metcalf, Mark Andrews, and Michael Pittman next year. Justin Jefferson and Treylon Burks as well.
Wink's D has featured some very creative usage of DBs and while Chuck Clark is much more of a traditional safety, there's definitely a blitzing DB role available and Bradberry may be the best fit for it other than McKinney (who is also probably the best candidate to play centerfield so you may not want him blitzing too much). Almost like the Deon Grant/Antrel Rolle in the slot role.
yeah ultimately i think both players were given chances to stay on nyg terms. ryan chose to leave. bradberry may choose exactly the same, though i think it's possible it may be against his financial interest to do so, so he may choose the opposite because he kind of did exactly that by defacto veto'ing the 2 trades.
QB Hell, Cap Hell, Roster Hell, Culture Hell, Leak Hell...
Did I miss anything else that Gettleman created?
Quote:
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.