The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
i dont know why patrick graham's scheme always got shredded in man early in the season before they sat back in soft zones but maybe it's just not a fit for Bradberry?
or maybe he just wants more money than he's worth. 2 teams apparently liked him enough they were willing to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
but if the giants don't think he's a fit there's no way the 2 sides will agree on an extension given that teams who valued him enough to trade for him disagreed with his asking price.
without Bradberry I think there's a much better chance of Holmes outside than Robinson. Holmes played like 2000 snaps outside at UCLA and very few inside. Robinson was the opposite. Flott played both but more slit.
and i'd expect they sign a veteran for the minimum who fits the scheme. unless bradberry takes a paycut, which would be a no lose.
If I'm Bradberry I look at this way: I'm getting 2M from the Giants no matter what this season. I'm better off getting cut, and having a choice where I go, to 1) either go to a contender or 2) a system I've played well in and rebuild my value.
I know Washington has 2 solid + starters, but that's my bet.
if he gets cut i think he goes raiders depending on $
so he's going to get whatever he gets on the market. If he gets a 1/5m, he makes $5m. this isn't like logan ryan where the guarantee is higher than whatever salary he's going to get.
that's why i suspect the giants have an offer on the table equivalent to something around 1/9m or 1/10m. That's probably a little higher than what he'd get on the open market on a 1 year at this point.
Gilmore's deal is practically 1 year 9.5m deal with a 7.75m cap hit year 1 and 2m of dead money if they cut him year 2. if he plays well they have an option to keep him at 11.9m for year 2.
I haven't seen details on Mathieu's 3/33m yet but i expect it to be similar.
So if bradberry is looking to cash in 1 more time as a UFA next year, it's going to be hard for him to get what the giants will likely offer even with a paycut.
Nassib does appear to have been cut but he's still listed on OTC so not sure what the deal is there. The NFLPA has them 5m under the cap but not sure they have any means to make room.
I don't think Bradberry is going to fetch big money on the open market. My guess is he gets 1/5M (+2M from NYG). So the Raiders are easily in play.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
He specifically said negotiate extension. I assume bradberry was shooting for Xavien Howard money but getting offered Stephon Gilmore money and didn't anticipate musical chairs ending up with him on the outside looking in.
From the excerpt you posted earlier, the quote I'm referring to was:
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
From the excerpt you posted earlier, the quote I'm referring to was:
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Releasing him now after the draft and way past free Agency. He could of done it earlier, when there was still free Agency money out there.
You're blaming Joe Schoen for being put in an untenable position re Bradberry (and others) by the previous regime?
Schoen's job is to transform the Giants from laughable losers to perennial winners. It's not to insure that James Bradberry is as comfortable as possible. It's also not to repeat the mistakes of the past by throwing good money after bad.
Sounds like they gave him an option of a paycut, an "extension" or his release.
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
Is that a serious question? The best thing that could happen to the Giants is Daniel Jones develops to an elite level under Daboll.
Schoen s comments indicate he s going to get that chance.
Really puzzled by your question am I a troll. Are you that locked in to your own opinion that you feel a dissenting one must be a troll.
“If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
From that interview it sound very clear that Bradberry
is not interested in modifying his pay and will be released this week.
All the talk in threads that he was worth a 3rd/4th round pick before the Draft but Schoen/Giants should hold out and wait for higher and better since there was no hurry and some teams would offer more later if they don't draft a CB. That never followed any actual logic to begin with and now it seems basically ridiculous.
So now his time in near up as a NYG. Bradberry will get released because the team is still finanically strapped by the decisions from the prior GM and they have other priority obligations to pay. The secondary has a lot of young guys now all over the place and I think Jackson is the senior member.
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
Explain how playing less shitty than backups on a bad team is evidence of elevating the team.
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
Judge was basically assured of staying until he started putting his foot in his mouth at the end of the year pressers
We don't really know this as fact. It's been speculated on but for all we know Judge was gone even if he spoke like the Dalai Lama through December of 2021.
More than likely it was the god awful losing streak and lack of competitiveness that did in Judge. That and the take a knee nonsense. And how ill prepared the backup QBs looked. And the historically bad and inept offense.
RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
RE:
djm : 9:25 am : link : reply
In comment 15699085 Matt M. said:
Quote:
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
"If Jones plays well"
I think that the other posters point - to keep Jones, the Gmen would be looking at 20-30M a year depending on whether they franchise him or not.
He would need a Brady/Manning type of year to justify that investment (and even then, you'd have the "flash in the pan" 1 year wonder question to work through given his prior history)
Giants don't have the roster for that. Let some other team make that gamble.
He was putting up decent numbers (more than Jones ever had), but never elevated the team and proved he was special.
Looking back now - they would've been better off just cutting their losses, using that salary to to invest in other team improvements, and continue their QB search.
Much like the Vikings should be doing now..
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
Nothing is lost? What about the games we're losing? What about the opportunity to look at another quarterback?
It's been nothing but losing with Jones.
RE: RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
You say this now, but I can guarantee that when Jones fails this year there will be a myriad of excuses on how it's not his fault, needs more time, etc, because that's what the Daniel Jones Defense Force has done for years.
Those comments on Jones are remarkably good backhanded compliments. They are brilliant in superficially sounding nice but not expressing any real confidence. He definitely went through multiple revisions to get something that good.
RE: Robinson hasn't done jack yet to deserve a starting spot
I think we could probably afford to kick some money down the road...we have plenty of space next year, so it would be tempting to keep him...
but I'm the end by the time the Giants are really ready to make noise JB's value will have dropped, and this opens space to let the young players develop
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
that's a net pay cut of $4.4m and kind of a "meet in the middle" number right at the AAV Gilmore got from IND.
it would likely pay out $8m as bonus with a minimum base this year, so 2 new prorated hits of $4m this year and next on the already existing void year (which currently carries a 1.36m hit).
net savings to giants $8.4m. 4.4m saved via paycut, 4m kicked to next year. Gets nyg to 14m under the cap (rookie pool costs 12.6).
presumably the nyg have given him some kind of offer like this and his agent is out there shopping it. not sure they find anything close to that number though because the giants could have easily facilitated a trade at a similar or better number even if the trade comp was basically nothing.
So in my scenario JB's choices are take a $9m check and report to camp in a week or sit around waiting for the phone to ring like Logan Ryan a couple years ago hoping something happens in the league that increases interest.
the positive of this scenario for the nyg is that via trade Bradberry becomes better trade bait because his cap # for an acquiring team would be the minimum and in the interim they get a player who has opted in/motivated to earn a new contract.
I tip my hat to Schoen, I didn't think they could improve the offense in the way they did in the draft. When they say "help the kid succeed" -- they did.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
old friend Jack Rabbit played 927 for TEN (78%)
Joe Haden played 695 for PIT (54%)
Chris Harris played 747 (64%)
Kyle Fuller played 719 (66%)
Xavier Rhodes played 638 (58%)
AJ Bouye played 401 (37%)
Jimmy Smith is out there but he's just a part timer (27%) at this point and was also considering retirement.
Bradberry would be at the top of that list because none can log the snaps and ball production he does. But how much $ is that worth over the cheaper options above? Jenkins and Fuller made 7.5 and 9.5 last year respectively, but seem very likely to make a lot less than that this year. Harris made 8.5. Presumably what he's asking his agent right now.
I tip my hat to Schoen, I didn't think they could improve the offense in the way they did in the draft. When they say "help the kid succeed" -- they did.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
And stay healthy. Durability is not talked about enough with Jones.
Eric in Li -- I think that's a very reasonable projection.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Dont forget Gates too - I suspect the best thing for both parties is adding another year to that deal. Unless he's miraculously able to compete for a starting spot in a few months.
But in the more likely event that he's starting on PUP for a few months it makes a ton of sense to add a cheap year for next year, and move a little bit of $ off this year. he gets a little extra security and instead of hitting FA without any tape post-injury he gets the security of 1 more offseason before needing to come into camp in 2023 in his contract year.
he's got $2m in non-gtd salary this year on a 3m cap hit so you could probably shave $1m off his cap number by adding a cheap year next year, him not losing any money, and the nyg not having to deal with an injury grievance.
RE: “If Jones plays well you will all look like idiots”
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Yes, can be idiots on both sides, but, Sean, Come on yourself. All in, with the same or worse OL, with SS hurt/out, KT hurt or out most games, Slayton being Slayton, and KG--don't know what to say. SB being the underside of SB last year. Part of your comment that I bolded is such facile spin on your part, you're better than that.
I am in the JS/BD camp: not that I think DJ is a lock to be an elite or franchise QB, at all, but that he is the starter for now and we will evaluate him in the context of 2022's roster and coaching staff. And whatever number of games he's on the field in '22, we'll assess at that time and make the best decision at QB for NYG--and which is not at all necessarily to re-sign him.
I’m not saying the team wasn’t constructed poorly, the OL was neglected. However, the plan was to go all in on guys like Golladay, Jackson, Rudolph & Toney to try to win a crappy division. Schoen/Daboll are paying for those consequences now.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
I tend to agree, and I think the up hill got steeper in BD/Kafka read quick/get the ball out quick to your receivers either wide or in the slot, not necessarily the longer fly or post patterns where Jones has had some success.
Aside from the apparent desire to hit FA asap, I agree with others that he seems not to want to be with NYG, and maybe the Logan Ryan fallout stuck in his craw. Were they known to be close? Of course, a franchise mired in losing helps hasten the break-up, and Gettleman never minded overpaying to overcome that small disincentive to signing.
Aside from the apparent desire to hit FA asap, I agree with others that he seems not to want to be with NYG, and maybe the Logan Ryan fallout stuck in his craw. Were they known to be close? Of course, a franchise mired in losing helps hasten the break-up, and Gettleman never minded overpaying to overcome that small disincentive to signing.
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions.
i think it's pretty easy to guess those 2 teams possibly included KC (who traded up for McDuffie) or IND (who signed Gilmore) or the Bills who got Elam or other teams who have since drafted or signed other players and moved on.
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions....
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
Not grasping 'the opposite: His agents were negotiating with other teams but couldn't agree to terms, money, or, up to this point, with NYG. I don't see anything there that would suggest he was inclined to remain here even under the new regime. As to misjudging the market, seems so, but again nothing in that to suggest he didn't want out of here.
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
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In comment 15698869 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants needed to upgrade every position. The corners were taken so they took a pass rusher.
Doesn't change the fact Bradberry is overpaid and had a really rough year:
Should the Giants cut a different player?
Jones and Barkley are good for $11M, I believe...
I believe we get the best cap relief by trading both Jones and SB to get to that $11M number. On the other hand, releasing them has negligible savings.
Ah that's right. Too bad.
If I were Bardberry and forced to take a pay cut, I'd refuse and let them cut me. Then sign a 1 year contract with a contender this season.
or maybe he just wants more money than he's worth. 2 teams apparently liked him enough they were willing to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
but if the giants don't think he's a fit there's no way the 2 sides will agree on an extension given that teams who valued him enough to trade for him disagreed with his asking price.
without Bradberry I think there's a much better chance of Holmes outside than Robinson. Holmes played like 2000 snaps outside at UCLA and very few inside. Robinson was the opposite. Flott played both but more slit.
and i'd expect they sign a veteran for the minimum who fits the scheme. unless bradberry takes a paycut, which would be a no lose.
I know Washington has 2 solid + starters, but that's my bet.
he'd be a really good matchup weapon in that division. he did a good job on Kelce, could help against Mike Williams, Sutton.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
Yup. He was designated a post June 1 cut. Raiders can't spend that money for 3 weeks. But he could definitely land there.
that's why i suspect the giants have an offer on the table equivalent to something around 1/9m or 1/10m. That's probably a little higher than what he'd get on the open market on a 1 year at this point.
Gilmore's deal is practically 1 year 9.5m deal with a 7.75m cap hit year 1 and 2m of dead money if they cut him year 2. if he plays well they have an option to keep him at 11.9m for year 2.
I haven't seen details on Mathieu's 3/33m yet but i expect it to be similar.
So if bradberry is looking to cash in 1 more time as a UFA next year, it's going to be hard for him to get what the giants will likely offer even with a paycut.
Nassib does appear to have been cut but he's still listed on OTC so not sure what the deal is there. The NFLPA has them 5m under the cap but not sure they have any means to make room.
When Schoen said trade partners and Bradberry couldn't agree to renegotiate, I took that to mean he wouldn't agree to a straight cut.
He specifically said negotiate extension. I assume bradberry was shooting for Xavien Howard money but getting offered Stephon Gilmore money and didn't anticipate musical chairs ending up with him on the outside looking in.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
Quote:
Being that did have good talks with other teams and their agents, but sometimes if you're going to renegotiate a contract and you couldnt come to an agreement, it is what it is.
As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
You're blaming Joe Schoen for being put in an untenable position re Bradberry (and others) by the previous regime?
Schoen's job is to transform the Giants from laughable losers to perennial winners. It's not to insure that James Bradberry is as comfortable as possible. It's also not to repeat the mistakes of the past by throwing good money after bad.
Joe Schoen Talks Expectations, QB, & James Bradberry! [Full Interview] - ( New Window )
I'm assuming the reason it is dragging out is that Schoen gave his agent permission to talk to other teams "indirectly" to see what kind of contract he can get if he hits FA.
If the numbers are weak - he has option of coming back to Giants. If it's a strong FA market - which is very unlikely since there was apparently zero trade interest - he leaves. Just a guess, but only logically explanation for why it's dragging out and they are constantly in touch with each other.
Agreed
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In comment 15698716 joeinpa said:
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Good to hear.
Why is that 'good to hear'? Are you trolling?
I really don't get people dying on the DJ hill. Yeah, good kid & hard worker from all accounts, but he is a subpar-at best-QB.
No one is "dying on the DJ hill." We just would like to see him have a chance with a better OL, better coaching, and better weapons in a year where, despite the 5000 idiotic posts saying otherwise on this website, there were no franchise QBs to take in this draft - as the draft itself proved. And every football draft writer on the planet says next year's draft is way better for QBs
The people "dying on the DJ hill" are the ones already proclaiming Jones dead. You are all so dug in on it that I dont know how you will be rooting for the Giants this season - if Jones does well and the team does well, you all look like idiots
Is that a serious question? The best thing that could happen to the Giants is Daniel Jones develops to an elite level under Daboll.
Schoen s comments indicate he s going to get that chance.
Really puzzled by your question am I a troll. Are you that locked in to your own opinion that you feel a dissenting one must be a troll.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
All the talk in threads that he was worth a 3rd/4th round pick before the Draft but Schoen/Giants should hold out and wait for higher and better since there was no hurry and some teams would offer more later if they don't draft a CB. That never followed any actual logic to begin with and now it seems basically ridiculous.
So now his time in near up as a NYG. Bradberry will get released because the team is still finanically strapped by the decisions from the prior GM and they have other priority obligations to pay. The secondary has a lot of young guys now all over the place and I think Jackson is the senior member.
Quote:
Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Getting that situation to 4-7 actually looks respectable now. Worst coaching staff in the league. Worst offensive system. Everyone injured. What do you expect? And then the backups played and it got much, much worse, so you had clear evidence that he actually was elevating the team.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
We don't really know this as fact. It's been speculated on but for all we know Judge was gone even if he spoke like the Dalai Lama through December of 2021.
More than likely it was the god awful losing streak and lack of competitiveness that did in Judge. That and the take a knee nonsense. And how ill prepared the backup QBs looked. And the historically bad and inept offense.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
djm : 9:25 am : link : reply
In comment 15699085 Matt M. said:
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What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
"If Jones plays well"
I think that the other posters point - to keep Jones, the Gmen would be looking at 20-30M a year depending on whether they franchise him or not.
He would need a Brady/Manning type of year to justify that investment (and even then, you'd have the "flash in the pan" 1 year wonder question to work through given his prior history)
Giants don't have the roster for that. Let some other team make that gamble.
He was putting up decent numbers (more than Jones ever had), but never elevated the team and proved he was special.
Looking back now - they would've been better off just cutting their losses, using that salary to to invest in other team improvements, and continue their QB search.
Much like the Vikings should be doing now..
Nothing is lost? What about the games we're losing? What about the opportunity to look at another quarterback?
It's been nothing but losing with Jones.
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Why doesn’t that work the other way? Jones is 12-25 as a starter and hasn’t played a full season yet. The team also went all in on Jones last year dipping significantly into 2022 cap dollars, yet Jones led the Giants to a 4-7 record before getting hurt.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
Are you serious? Because you and the others have already buried him - saying he sucks, wildly overrating this year's QB draft because you think he sucks, and putting all your chips on "Jones sucks there is no way the Giants can win with him." And you have each said this 5000 times.
The rest of us are saying give him a shot, in what is a transition year anyway with no good free agent options and no time wasted because this year's QB draft stunk. And if he fails, we try to draft a QB next year in a much better year to draft a QB. So how are we idiots if he fails? No one is saying anything definitively about Jones becoming a franchise QB this year.
But you and the others ARE definitively saying he sucks get rid of him now
So if he succeeds, you all look like idiots. If he fails, nothing is lost because we are right back in the same spot and we try to draft a QB in a better QB draft
You say this now, but I can guarantee that when Jones fails this year there will be a myriad of excuses on how it's not his fault, needs more time, etc, because that's what the Daniel Jones Defense Force has done for years.
On the 2022 version of the Giants, the most important ability that many players possess is affordability.
but I'm the end by the time the Giants are really ready to make noise JB's value will have dropped, and this opens space to let the young players develop
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As far as an offset, I know Vacchiano reported there might be language, but has anyone else confirmed that and how much?
In March Fitzgerald said there’s standard offset language preventing the double dip so as long as he gets 2m on his next deal giants are off the hook (it will get credited back next year).
Cool, thanks. I think Team Bradberry feel he's coming off a down year and want to get a shot at UFA next year. Just a year ago he was coming off a no doubt pro bowl campaign.
Seems like he's willing to get cut, rather than get locked up at a bargain value.
I wonder what the Giants floor on savings would be to keep him.
that's a net pay cut of $4.4m and kind of a "meet in the middle" number right at the AAV Gilmore got from IND.
it would likely pay out $8m as bonus with a minimum base this year, so 2 new prorated hits of $4m this year and next on the already existing void year (which currently carries a 1.36m hit).
net savings to giants $8.4m. 4.4m saved via paycut, 4m kicked to next year. Gets nyg to 14m under the cap (rookie pool costs 12.6).
presumably the nyg have given him some kind of offer like this and his agent is out there shopping it. not sure they find anything close to that number though because the giants could have easily facilitated a trade at a similar or better number even if the trade comp was basically nothing.
So in my scenario JB's choices are take a $9m check and report to camp in a week or sit around waiting for the phone to ring like Logan Ryan a couple years ago hoping something happens in the league that increases interest.
the positive of this scenario for the nyg is that via trade Bradberry becomes better trade bait because his cap # for an acquiring team would be the minimum and in the interim they get a player who has opted in/motivated to earn a new contract.
Dan Jones is the QB and were going to see what he can do this season -JS
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Joe Haden played 695 for PIT (54%)
Chris Harris played 747 (64%)
Kyle Fuller played 719 (66%)
Xavier Rhodes played 638 (58%)
AJ Bouye played 401 (37%)
Jimmy Smith is out there but he's just a part timer (27%) at this point and was also considering retirement.
Bradberry would be at the top of that list because none can log the snaps and ball production he does. But how much $ is that worth over the cheaper options above? Jenkins and Fuller made 7.5 and 9.5 last year respectively, but seem very likely to make a lot less than that this year. Harris made 8.5. Presumably what he's asking his agent right now.
I think Neal was the best player in the draft and will pay huge dividends right away. I also like the upgrade at slot WR in Robinson a lot. Plus depth at guard and TE.
Jones has to dramatically improve his play. I am very skeptical.
And stay healthy. Durability is not talked about enough with Jones.
If they can get there, and you move Slayton and Ximines, you get in a pretty comfortable place to operate.
Dont forget Gates too - I suspect the best thing for both parties is adding another year to that deal. Unless he's miraculously able to compete for a starting spot in a few months.
But in the more likely event that he's starting on PUP for a few months it makes a ton of sense to add a cheap year for next year, and move a little bit of $ off this year. he gets a little extra security and instead of hitting FA without any tape post-injury he gets the security of 1 more offseason before needing to come into camp in 2023 in his contract year.
he's got $2m in non-gtd salary this year on a 3m cap hit so you could probably shave $1m off his cap number by adding a cheap year next year, him not losing any money, and the nyg not having to deal with an injury grievance.
But only one side of the argument is to be considered “idiots”. Come on.
I am in the JS/BD camp: not that I think DJ is a lock to be an elite or franchise QB, at all, but that he is the starter for now and we will evaluate him in the context of 2022's roster and coaching staff. And whatever number of games he's on the field in '22, we'll assess at that time and make the best decision at QB for NYG--and which is not at all necessarily to re-sign him.
it actually appears the opposite. schoen said the nyg had trades agreed to with 2 teams and he was unable to reach agreements with those teams on extensions.
i think it's pretty easy to guess those 2 teams possibly included KC (who traded up for McDuffie) or IND (who signed Gilmore) or the Bills who got Elam or other teams who have since drafted or signed other players and moved on.
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
btw I just googled "james bradberry agents" and this story was the first thing that came up from March 2021.
Giants’ James Bradberry’s faith in young agent results in great success for both - ( New Window )
i think he and his agent just misjudged their market and the likelihood of him getting cut for nothing. i think that's why schoen "feels bad for the kid".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
He said that? Wow.