"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Schoen def didn't just poo poo the question either. He said sometimes he has to deal with some leaks that make no sense and he has to call and agent or player to say that is not true blah blah blah.
But he did insinuate, especially from the local media, stuff does come out, and he tries to find where that source came from. Interesting...
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
I mean JonC basically said that Tim McDonnell has loose lips. We also know that from the Brian Flores lawsuit where Tim McDonnell overstepped his bounds when he is not a decision maker telling a coach to go "win the f*cking job".
Isn't it a pretty well known that Pettit got really close to Tim? I mean if Tim thinks he is going to be doing anything not worthy for Joe Schoen he has another thing coming. Sounds like Chris Mara and Tim M migth just be filing scouting reports and Joe is probably going to throw them in the trash LOL.
Hopefully after these firings Joe brings in some guys he trusts so that continues to push all the nepotism down the decision pole.
Chris Mara's scouting reports go in the player evaluation database
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
RE: Chris Mara's scouting reports go in the player evaluation database
Been meaning to post this (sorry if already has) since Thursday morning 4/28 or so. GoDeep has had a pretty decent record at asshattery, best as I recall. What struck and stuck with me from his last pre-draft post was, to the effect I think, that the Giants were pretty much all in on one, or more, of the OTs, whether Cross, Neal, Ickey.
What he did say w/o qualification iirc was that--per his source(s)--the Giants were not going to go Edge on Thursday, and indeed there was way more talk about Cross than KT, Jr. And, of course, JG went right at KT, Jr. at #5 not to risk CAR taking or trading down. Whether deliberate plant of disinformation to identify potential leakers or just effective smokescreen, I thought his post, which of course got a ton of looks and comments, was interesting. Not saying or directing anything at all negative about GD13, he tells us what he hears and it's only as good as the source.
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
It will be better than his rookie year by decent margin. Jones was not good as a rookie you, I agree. I will admit the stats looked decent for a rookie though. He is going to get Josh Allen's year 1&2 system. If Toney, Barkley and Robinson are healthy, they are going to catch short passes with a ton of YAC, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand how that is going to compile stats. They made early Josh Allen stats look better by flipping the jet sweeps. You can't find an easier completion and those three are going to break some. It just is going to happen. I think you are going to see something like:
4k+ yards 69% completion and 30-40 TDs rushing and passing combined over 17 games. We win 7-9 games depending on how balls bounce. Those stats are going to be earned by the skill players. Jones is not going to be pushing the ball downfield that much. The Chiefs were doing bad early last year because Mahomes was waiting on the big play. Once they got him to get it out quick to the playmakers the Chiefs started rolling. This offense will driven by skill players and playcalling/scheming by the OC. This will not be a QB driven system. He is going to do well.
Colhowpepper what's opposite is JB probably stands to make more $
Logan Ryan's decision was likely a very binary one, play for the giants or play for tampa. money equal (or even better in tampa bc of taxes).
James Bradberry had the chance to get traded elsewhere twice and instead of being willing to accept what 2 teams that wanted him thought was FMV, he chose to remain a NYG and potentially become a cap casualty with minimal safety net.
Logan Ryan knew he was guaranteed 5m this year no matter what, and likely also knew his open market value wasn't above that. His year was essentially locked in no matter where he played.
James Bradberry's range of potential salary this year were completely different.
There was the amount the teams who tried to trade for him offered him. (10-11m aav?)
The salary terms of his current deal, which the nyg were willing to eat in part to facilitate a trade. (13.4m)
And there's the situation he's in now - where he could face an open market without much available cap $. (5m? 7m?)
turning down the other 2 teams to stay on the giants seems like a mistake - and one i dont think a player who wanted out would have made. but i guess we will find out tomorrow.
Bradberry must be presuming one or both of those teams will up
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
Here you go, Aces. Breer wrote this last May, although if you changed the date to 2022 you probably wouldn't know the difference
I get where you are coming from now; my thought on alignment with Ryan wasn't on the contract dollars saved or waived (forsaken), on either side, player or NYG, so much as IF he was tight with LR, it might have colored his outlook if he had been thinking of re-upping. Your analysis has been pretty drill down on both of them from the get-go, so no arguments from me. Bradberry and his camp have been pretty opaque in terms of reading his financial interests/bottom lines.
so here's a different but maybe important question re bradberry
finances aside, what kind of role could Wink build for him in this defense to earn a big contract next year?
after all if he was turning down extensions and his priority was hitting UFA again, the most important thing for him is being in a situation where he can play well this year.
if he were an obvious fit for wink's scheme i think this probably would have been solved already so i think we can assume he's not, probably because he's a better zone corner than press man. but if they had no use of him he'd have been cut already.
there have been some loose rumors about him possibly in more of a safety role but having never played deep and not having speed that seems unlikely in the traditional safety sense. what might make sense is playing him in the star type position as a matchup player.
He has been a pretty good blitzer and 2 years ago was a very solid tackler. In man concepts maybe they can match him up where his length can help him against TEs like Goedert, Schultz, Thomas. Maybe some bigger WRs like Gallup, AJB. They also play DK Metcalf, Mark Andrews, and Michael Pittman next year. Justin Jefferson and Treylon Burks as well.
Wink's D has featured some very creative usage of DBs and while Chuck Clark is much more of a traditional safety, there's definitely a blitzing DB role available and Bradberry may be the best fit for it other than McKinney (who is also probably the best candidate to play centerfield so you may not want him blitzing too much). Almost like the Deon Grant/Antrel Rolle in the slot role.
I get where you are coming from now; my thought on alignment with Ryan wasn't on the contract dollars saved or waived (forsaken), on either side, player or NYG, so much as IF he was tight with LR, it might have colored his outlook if he had been thinking of re-upping. Your analysis has been pretty drill down on both of them from the get-go, so no arguments from me. Bradberry and his camp have been pretty opaque in terms of reading his financial interests/bottom lines.
yeah ultimately i think both players were given chances to stay on nyg terms. ryan chose to leave. bradberry may choose exactly the same, though i think it's possible it may be against his financial interest to do so, so he may choose the opposite because he kind of did exactly that by defacto veto'ing the 2 trades.
“There’s a situation where we could convert the salary [into a bonus] and kick it down the road,” Schoen said, “but that’s why we are in the situation we are in, because of moves like that — which we are trying to avoid. … It’s unfortunate that his contract is structured in a way that he is one of the few you can move on from and it wouldn’t kill you. That’s what I’ve been fighting over the last three months and continue to wrestle with.”
QB Hell, Cap Hell, Roster Hell, Culture Hell, Leak Hell...
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.
Really? So, after year 4, with a new contract necessary, if he plays well (to me that means just decent) we have our QB? You are willing to invest more years at over $20M/per for an OK QB with a roster still under construction? That's insane to me.
Some of the same takes were delivered when Leonard Williams had the season of his life in a contract year and people insisted he should be paid any amount to keep him.
Quote:
"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
He said that? Wow.
I just listened to it and I think I slightly misquoted him. I saved the spot where he said it but its close:
https://youtu.be/EXCFRkPCCj0?t=822
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Quote:
"if you can't trust the people in the building you can't have the people in the building".
I mean if that isn't directly quoted at Chris Pettit I don't know what is.
That's very telling. Yet, there are a few dweebs in the other thread lamenting the fact that this guy got fired. My heart bleeds for him..
Schoen def didn't just poo poo the question either. He said sometimes he has to deal with some leaks that make no sense and he has to call and agent or player to say that is not true blah blah blah.
But he did insinuate, especially from the local media, stuff does come out, and he tries to find where that source came from. Interesting...
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
Quote:
"You got to trust the people in the building, if you cant, you have the wrong people in the building"
so pretty close as I was listening to it on my phone at the time.
Nice to see Schoen realizing he also has to be a plumber in his GM role and plug unnecessary leaks.
Makes me wonder if someone on his team scans websites like BBI to see what's being discussed by the fanbase. Imagine the reaction seeing the term "Asshat" and the role they play at BBI... ;)
I mean JonC basically said that Tim McDonnell has loose lips. We also know that from the Brian Flores lawsuit where Tim McDonnell overstepped his bounds when he is not a decision maker telling a coach to go "win the f*cking job".
Isn't it a pretty well known that Pettit got really close to Tim? I mean if Tim thinks he is going to be doing anything not worthy for Joe Schoen he has another thing coming. Sounds like Chris Mara and Tim M migth just be filing scouting reports and Joe is probably going to throw them in the trash LOL.
Hopefully after these firings Joe brings in some guys he trusts so that continues to push all the nepotism down the decision pole.
Joe doesn't have to throw them in the trash to disreagrd them...
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Joe doesn't have to throw them in the trash to disreagrd them...
it was a figure of speech...
Been meaning to post this (sorry if already has) since Thursday morning 4/28 or so. GoDeep has had a pretty decent record at asshattery, best as I recall. What struck and stuck with me from his last pre-draft post was, to the effect I think, that the Giants were pretty much all in on one, or more, of the OTs, whether Cross, Neal, Ickey.
What he did say w/o qualification iirc was that--per his source(s)--the Giants were not going to go Edge on Thursday, and indeed there was way more talk about Cross than KT, Jr. And, of course, JG went right at KT, Jr. at #5 not to risk CAR taking or trading down. Whether deliberate plant of disinformation to identify potential leakers or just effective smokescreen, I thought his post, which of course got a ton of looks and comments, was interesting. Not saying or directing anything at all negative about GD13, he tells us what he hears and it's only as good as the source.
Quote:
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
4k+ yards 69% completion and 30-40 TDs rushing and passing combined over 17 games. We win 7-9 games depending on how balls bounce. Those stats are going to be earned by the skill players. Jones is not going to be pushing the ball downfield that much. The Chiefs were doing bad early last year because Mahomes was waiting on the big play. Once they got him to get it out quick to the playmakers the Chiefs started rolling. This offense will driven by skill players and playcalling/scheming by the OC. This will not be a QB driven system. He is going to do well.
Logan Ryan's decision was likely a very binary one, play for the giants or play for tampa. money equal (or even better in tampa bc of taxes).
James Bradberry had the chance to get traded elsewhere twice and instead of being willing to accept what 2 teams that wanted him thought was FMV, he chose to remain a NYG and potentially become a cap casualty with minimal safety net.
Logan Ryan knew he was guaranteed 5m this year no matter what, and likely also knew his open market value wasn't above that. His year was essentially locked in no matter where he played.
James Bradberry's range of potential salary this year were completely different.
There was the amount the teams who tried to trade for him offered him. (10-11m aav?)
The salary terms of his current deal, which the nyg were willing to eat in part to facilitate a trade. (13.4m)
And there's the situation he's in now - where he could face an open market without much available cap $. (5m? 7m?)
turning down the other 2 teams to stay on the giants seems like a mistake - and one i dont think a player who wanted out would have made. but i guess we will find out tomorrow.
Either that or this guy is totally braindead...
Either that or this guy is totally braindead...
I'd bet a decent amount 1 of those teams was the Colts before signing Gilmore - who got 2 years 20m a week or so before the draft.
I'd guess the other team may have been KC or Buffalo - who each drafted corners in round 1.
He may be staring into the abyss.
Quote:
In comment 15699316 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Calling Jones a "win-with" player sounds like a compliment but it's really a nice way of saying he's ok. Jones needs a monster year to change that perception because you don't give out massive QB extensions to "win-with" guys.
There was an article last summer I believe that said the feeling around the league was DJ was a win-with type of qb not a win-because type. Interesting to hear that come from the GM.
Nice, I'll have to find that purely out of confirmation bias because I think that's the right take.
Here you go, Aces. Breer wrote this last May, although if you changed the date to 2022 you probably wouldn't know the difference
Link - ( New Window )
after all if he was turning down extensions and his priority was hitting UFA again, the most important thing for him is being in a situation where he can play well this year.
if he were an obvious fit for wink's scheme i think this probably would have been solved already so i think we can assume he's not, probably because he's a better zone corner than press man. but if they had no use of him he'd have been cut already.
there have been some loose rumors about him possibly in more of a safety role but having never played deep and not having speed that seems unlikely in the traditional safety sense. what might make sense is playing him in the star type position as a matchup player.
He has been a pretty good blitzer and 2 years ago was a very solid tackler. In man concepts maybe they can match him up where his length can help him against TEs like Goedert, Schultz, Thomas. Maybe some bigger WRs like Gallup, AJB. They also play DK Metcalf, Mark Andrews, and Michael Pittman next year. Justin Jefferson and Treylon Burks as well.
Wink's D has featured some very creative usage of DBs and while Chuck Clark is much more of a traditional safety, there's definitely a blitzing DB role available and Bradberry may be the best fit for it other than McKinney (who is also probably the best candidate to play centerfield so you may not want him blitzing too much). Almost like the Deon Grant/Antrel Rolle in the slot role.
yeah ultimately i think both players were given chances to stay on nyg terms. ryan chose to leave. bradberry may choose exactly the same, though i think it's possible it may be against his financial interest to do so, so he may choose the opposite because he kind of did exactly that by defacto veto'ing the 2 trades.
QB Hell, Cap Hell, Roster Hell, Culture Hell, Leak Hell...
Did I miss anything else that Gettleman created?
Quote:
What exactly does him playing WELL (i.e. decent, OK, good, not great, etc.) do for them? It's not enough to warrant a 2nd contract over $20M or a Franchise Tag of $30M+. The only thing that should get him that is an other worldly, Tom Brady or Peyton Manning season, which is HIGHLY unlikely. So, just about anything he does is moot. He is not likely to be back, in my opinion.
It had nothing to do with liking him or not, 9n my end or the Giants. It is the economics of the game and him not having any equity built up. It just makes no sense from the business sense.
If Jones plays well the Giants have their QB. Let it play out even if the odds are against it. Worry about the money later.