that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
Agreed.
Excellent interview.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
Barkley had 91 catches, on a 121 targets for only 721 yards. That's not good production at all. Six yards a target in the pass game isn't good.
Those targets are much better served going down field, to players who can get down field.
I think we'll see his ypc numbers go up this year, but say there is a back in the draft next year like James Cook? Just much cheaper.
Giants still have a bunch of needs for next year. You can argue that they really don't have a deep threat outside WR. They probably will draft a CB high. And of course, there is the big elephant in the room... QB.
I hope the Giants give virtually every carry to Barkley and let him prove he can be a feature back. And if he proves he's healthy and still has his burst, they can trade him mid season.
The notion of "weapon" is a little silly. You either gain hard yards on the ground, or big yards in the air.
the fact that he went 1oa means he was likely a stand out on a lot of boards. believe giants did a top 30 with him.
Could be. They picked Bellinger six picks later. I'd love to know how they had them graded. I think, though, that they might have had on eye on CB Coby Bryant.
I believe in one of the pre-draft conferences JS said the draft was deep through round 4.
I had reservations about BD becoming HC for being too pass happy. Buffalo's run game not overly impressive (Allen Dependent). All for moving the ball in the air, chunk plays etc. but can't recall many NFCE teams that have won this division without a strong running game (especially w/ young QB).
Even the SB winners mostly have balance and if they were not it was with outstanding vet QB's who had great weapons. Burrow is a outlier getting to the SB but he had a elite WR group and a D that stepped up (little Giant 2011 like) but didn't close.
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
and though I agree with you I will say this (as I have said many times before), Barkley has been injured by week 5 each of the last 3 years. It is a major roll of the dice thinking he will be healthy towards the trade deadline. if anything, hope for a top tier back (not a specific person but that a top back comes up lame or full on injured) before the regular season begins or just after it and we trade Barkley then. Anything after that is us hoping that the last three years were just unlucky...
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
This is spot on. NYG needs to show blue print for the sort of weapon Barkley can be in an offense, raise his value, and deal him at deadline to a SB contender. NYG needs to figure out how to acquire picks as ammo for next draft and don't have many resources to deal, but Barkley is one of them.
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
If league is going 7 on 7 like, Its possible no one is paying saquon a big second contract Possibly a reasonable one worked out here if it works for both parties Saquon probably wants to be here if team is on upswing
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
If we can get decent draft capital for him, i would trade him at deadline too Not against resigning him but we blew EE deal at deadline But we couldve got a 22 4th
I'm actually not as down on him as many others but who is going to give him a big deal at this point? He's basically a below average every down RB with some potential to rediscover his explosiveness and be a dangerous part time guy. The comps for him should be guys who are considered 3rd down backs.
If we do indeed evolve to a pass centric Offense then book it Barkley is as good as gone after this year IMHO. Significant $$$ will not be be allocated to the RB position with that philosophy.
I suspect you are right. No matter how great Barkley is this year, it may just be that team building philosophy would prevent them from allocating premium resources to that position.
One reservation I have that is possible, is that Barkley could factor huge in the passing game, including out wide, in the slot but likely mostly out of the backfield. Think of how the Chiefs utilized Kareem Hunt. He had 883 yards receiving in 27 games for the Chiefs on 79 catches and 10 TDs, to go with 2,151 yards rushing and 15 TDs on the ground. That's more than 3000 yards of offense and 25 TDs in 27 games for the Chiefs, and who knows what would've happened had he not had the off-the-field incident.
Barkley is capable of exceeding that production. The slot is really crowded with Robinson and Toney, but they can certainly get creative with putting Saquon out wide. He has the hands for it.
But in this model, you're going to have to keep Saquon as the centerpiece of the offense, which isn't a bad thing as long as he's healthy. And it also means continuing to supplement the WR group with cost-controlled talent in 2023 and 2024.
I think given the injury-related concerns both to Saquon and the RB position in general, from a team-building aspect, I think it's more likely that they move on from Barkley and go cost-control at the RB position, however.
Now they got this kid in UDFA in Jashaun Corbin. Corbin is a player who can be a UDFA gem. I think he has 1000 yard rusher upside and can also be a factor in the passing game out of the backfield as well. Really interesting player.
that Barkley can be a tremendous asset catching the ball out of the backfield. The issue is you can get the same for far cheaper.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
I couldn't agree more. The Giants should trade Barkley at the deadline unless by some miracle they are in contention for a playoff spot. I really wanted James Cook in round 3 as I believe he is a perfect fit for Daboll's offense who provides a similar skill set to Barkley but he would be cheap for 4 years.
you can get the same of what barkley has been since 2019
you can't find the player he was in 2018. he tied randy moss' record for tds over 50 yards as a rookie. i forget the exact stat but he had as many chunk plays over 20 or 30 as the top 5 Wrs other than Tyreek hill. there's a reason he was an all pro.
playing like that wouldn't preclude the possibility of trading him or letting him walk in UFA but i also don't think the franchise tag would be off the table. 1 year 10m isn't a bad use of $ if he returns to being one of the most dynamic players in the game. big if though.
If we do indeed evolve to a pass centric Offense then book it Barkley is as good as gone after this year IMHO. Significant $$$ will not be be allocated to the RB position with that philosophy.
I tend to agree.
Not saying he stays but the dude caught 90 passes his rookie year. Using Barkley in a pass centric offense like that would maximize his value I would think. It’s most likely a moot point but he is a weapon if healthy and used correctly.
I suspect a lot of that success was Eli Manning
RE: For those seeking to part ways with Bradberry…
Who on this squad is capable of covering the Eagles AJ Brown?
Maybe nobody, but does it really matter? Cleaning up the mess left by the previous regime is going to take more than one year, with difficult and painful choices that have to be made. If you expected the Giants to field a complete, competitive team this year you were mistaken. They won't. There are still holes that have to be filled, and problems that won't be addressed until next year.
you can't find the player he was in 2018. he tied randy moss' record for tds over 50 yards as a rookie. i forget the exact stat but he had as many chunk plays over 20 or 30 as the top 5 Wrs other than Tyreek hill. there's a reason he was an all pro.
playing like that wouldn't preclude the possibility of trading him or letting him walk in UFA but i also don't think the franchise tag would be off the table. 1 year 10m isn't a bad use of $ if he returns to being one of the most dynamic players in the game. big if though.
If he stays healthy, a huge if, then I think Barkley could have a great season and justify the franchise tag but I am 99.9% convinced that he will never be the same player he was during his rookie season due to the injuries he's sustained.
Barkley's situation reminds me of Shockey and Beckham's rookie seasons. They all had amazing rookie years and looked like they were destined for the HOF but they all suffered injuries that zapped them of the explosiveness that made them so special. Now Shockey and Beckham still had good seasons after their injuries but you could tell they weren't the same again.
I wouldn't give him a long term deal. I would apply the franchise tag to allow the Giants another year to draft a suitable replacement at a fraction of the cost.
I don't get all the talk about what to do with Barkley next year
Without seeing his role and level of success in the new offense, it's impossible to predict his value: this includes his value to the Giants, his trade value (either in-season or post-season), and his open market value should he hit free agency. It's premature. There are too many variables that require assumptions for there to be a meaningful discussion. It's like having a debate over what y equals in the equation y=2x+7.
Who on this squad is capable of covering the Eagles AJ Brown?
that would have been an issue next year when Bradberry was a FA.
No move should be made for just 1 year. That would be short sighted. This was always going to be a multi year rebuild. Bad drafts and horrendous FA signings (cap issues). Caused that.
No way is Schoen going to make this team super competitive in year 1. Hopefully by fixing the OL the offense looks like a modern offense and I would take that as a win this year.
You don't keep Bradberry or hurt your future cap down the road because you are going all out in year 1 when we still have so many question marks and holes to fill.
I wouldn't give him a long term deal. I would apply the franchise tag to allow the Giants another year to draft a suitable replacement at a fraction of the cost.
So if he wins both the League MVP and Super Bowl MVP, you wouldn't even bother to negotiate a long term deal? You would tell him to take his League MVP and Super Bowl MVP and go fuck himself? That would go over great in the locker room!
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
I would guess either Otton or Winfrey. If it was Bellinger they were trying to trade up for then Schoen would have said that.
yeah it seems like "tried" to trade up meaning most likely there target got snatched up.
Otherwise he could have said they ended up stay pat and there guy dropped.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was Otton. Mentioned on the thread that day when the round started he was probably best on the board and we were clearly looking at TE at that point.
Have a feeling they settled for Bellinger because of it...
while Barkley can be an asset THIS YEAR, they won’t resign him because it’s not a position that he will put dollars into. As was pointed out above, far more likely they trade him mid season, or let him walk and figure I to the comp formula for the 23 draft.
When they were talking about Bradberry, there was a nugget that Skinner missed when he talked about him.
It seems they had a few deals structured to trade him, had the compensation worked out, but Bradberry and those teams couldn’t come to agreement. ( I’m assuming on an extension). So no deals. They also talked to his agent about what could be done between NY and him (extension, void years, etc) but also no dice. Seems like, after agreeing to re- structure twice last year (thanks Dave), he’s not inclined to do anything else now and is forcing his release.
Post June 1 release, 10 million + saved, move along to next problem.
It's insight into their idea of positional value, which is good to see. They wanted Gardner, they wanted Thibs enough that they were willing to take their second choice but closely similar rated RT. They targeted a specific skillset at WR.
you beat me to it. There is only one professional option to address Kim Jones in that setting. By her first name just the way every male in that room was addressed. Gettleman is an asshole as a person and was an unprofessional embarrassment as a GM and public face of the Giants. But it doesn't surprise me that the Giants didn't do anything about it. Look at who they have represent them as a PR person.
Every team believes in positional value, that's why franchise tags are separated by position and there's arbitration over whether someone played DT or DE. It doesn't mean only QBs get paid and everyone else gets the minimum. It means players are compared to others at their position when negotiating contracts. And that's what will happen for Barkley. It's amazing that I need to remind people of this.
p.s.--How sad for Go Terps that he will go into the season hoping with his fingers and toes crossed that Jones and Barkley do poorly.
Yes I'm wishing and hoping for Jones and Barkley to do well because if they're doing well the Giants are doing well. Not that it isn't possible for the Giants to do well without them, but if they are doing well the Giants are surely doing well. And despite your declaration of opinion as fact, there exists the possibility that either or both will have productive seasons that warrant a second contract. It would not be unprecedented, it would not require divine intervention.
Can Jones be an elite QB like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Warner, and Brees? Extremely doubtful. Can he be a good to very good QB who can win you Super Bowls like Simms and Eli? Possibly. There were times early on when Eli looked awful and Simms's early days included being benched for Scott Brunner. My best guess is that Jones--assuming he avoids injury--performs well enough for the Giants to have a winning season, but not necessarily well enough for franchise QB money. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he gets injured and the jury remains out on him until he proves he can stay healthy.
As for Barkley, it's all about returning to his 2018 capabilities. Is it possible? I have no idea, but it wouldn't be unprecedented. And the 2018 Barkley with three more years of experience in the NFL game is certainly worthy of the franchise tag.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
Agreed.
Excellent interview.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
Those targets are much better served going down field, to players who can get down field.
Those targets are much better served going down field, to players who can get down field.
I think we'll see his ypc numbers go up this year, but say there is a back in the draft next year like James Cook? Just much cheaper.
Giants still have a bunch of needs for next year. You can argue that they really don't have a deep threat outside WR. They probably will draft a CB high. And of course, there is the big elephant in the room... QB.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
Yup, great listen. Florio asked well prepared questions then shut up and let Schoen answer
The notion of "weapon" is a little silly. You either gain hard yards on the ground, or big yards in the air.
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Yup, great listen. Florio asked well prepared questions then shut up and let Schoen answer
Except for the first five minutes when he asking about Daniel Jones.
Heard teams may trade up to #6 for Kayvon.
Wonder who their target was
Could be. They picked Bellinger six picks later. I'd love to know how they had them graded. I think, though, that they might have had on eye on CB Coby Bryant.
What a breath of fresh air!
I had reservations about BD becoming HC for being too pass happy. Buffalo's run game not overly impressive (Allen Dependent). All for moving the ball in the air, chunk plays etc. but can't recall many NFCE teams that have won this division without a strong running game (especially w/ young QB).
Even the SB winners mostly have balance and if they were not it was with outstanding vet QB's who had great weapons. Burrow is a outlier getting to the SB but he had a elite WR group and a D that stepped up (little Giant 2011 like) but didn't close.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
and though I agree with you I will say this (as I have said many times before), Barkley has been injured by week 5 each of the last 3 years. It is a major roll of the dice thinking he will be healthy towards the trade deadline. if anything, hope for a top tier back (not a specific person but that a top back comes up lame or full on injured) before the regular season begins or just after it and we trade Barkley then. Anything after that is us hoping that the last three years were just unlucky...
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
If league is going 7 on 7 like, Its possible no one is paying saquon a big second contract Possibly a reasonable one worked out here if it works for both parties Saquon probably wants to be here if team is on upswing
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
If we can get decent draft capital for him, i would trade him at deadline too Not against resigning him but we blew EE deal at deadline But we couldve got a 22 4th
Degrade women? He called Kim Jones "darlin."
I suspect you are right. No matter how great Barkley is this year, it may just be that team building philosophy would prevent them from allocating premium resources to that position.
One reservation I have that is possible, is that Barkley could factor huge in the passing game, including out wide, in the slot but likely mostly out of the backfield. Think of how the Chiefs utilized Kareem Hunt. He had 883 yards receiving in 27 games for the Chiefs on 79 catches and 10 TDs, to go with 2,151 yards rushing and 15 TDs on the ground. That's more than 3000 yards of offense and 25 TDs in 27 games for the Chiefs, and who knows what would've happened had he not had the off-the-field incident.
Barkley is capable of exceeding that production. The slot is really crowded with Robinson and Toney, but they can certainly get creative with putting Saquon out wide. He has the hands for it.
But in this model, you're going to have to keep Saquon as the centerpiece of the offense, which isn't a bad thing as long as he's healthy. And it also means continuing to supplement the WR group with cost-controlled talent in 2023 and 2024.
I think given the injury-related concerns both to Saquon and the RB position in general, from a team-building aspect, I think it's more likely that they move on from Barkley and go cost-control at the RB position, however.
Now they got this kid in UDFA in Jashaun Corbin. Corbin is a player who can be a UDFA gem. I think he has 1000 yard rusher upside and can also be a factor in the passing game out of the backfield as well. Really interesting player.
Do the Giants want to pay Barkley a gigantic second-contract for being a weapon out of the backfield who sometimes runs the ball?
I stand by my original point from a couple of weeks ago. Play Barkley a bunch in September and October. If the team is not in serious playoff contention, trade him before the trade deadline. Don't let this become another Engram situation.
I couldn't agree more. The Giants should trade Barkley at the deadline unless by some miracle they are in contention for a playoff spot. I really wanted James Cook in round 3 as I believe he is a perfect fit for Daboll's offense who provides a similar skill set to Barkley but he would be cheap for 4 years.
playing like that wouldn't preclude the possibility of trading him or letting him walk in UFA but i also don't think the franchise tag would be off the table. 1 year 10m isn't a bad use of $ if he returns to being one of the most dynamic players in the game. big if though.
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In comment 15698850 Devour the Day said:
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If we do indeed evolve to a pass centric Offense then book it Barkley is as good as gone after this year IMHO. Significant $$$ will not be be allocated to the RB position with that philosophy.
I tend to agree.
Not saying he stays but the dude caught 90 passes his rookie year. Using Barkley in a pass centric offense like that would maximize his value I would think. It’s most likely a moot point but he is a weapon if healthy and used correctly.
I suspect a lot of that success was Eli Manning
Maybe nobody, but does it really matter? Cleaning up the mess left by the previous regime is going to take more than one year, with difficult and painful choices that have to be made. If you expected the Giants to field a complete, competitive team this year you were mistaken. They won't. There are still holes that have to be filled, and problems that won't be addressed until next year.
I regularly interact with the media on behalf of my company, and if I called a woman darlin I'd be fired by the time I ended the call.
playing like that wouldn't preclude the possibility of trading him or letting him walk in UFA but i also don't think the franchise tag would be off the table. 1 year 10m isn't a bad use of $ if he returns to being one of the most dynamic players in the game. big if though.
If he stays healthy, a huge if, then I think Barkley could have a great season and justify the franchise tag but I am 99.9% convinced that he will never be the same player he was during his rookie season due to the injuries he's sustained.
Barkley's situation reminds me of Shockey and Beckham's rookie seasons. They all had amazing rookie years and looked like they were destined for the HOF but they all suffered injuries that zapped them of the explosiveness that made them so special. Now Shockey and Beckham still had good seasons after their injuries but you could tell they weren't the same again.
that would have been an issue next year when Bradberry was a FA.
No move should be made for just 1 year. That would be short sighted. This was always going to be a multi year rebuild. Bad drafts and horrendous FA signings (cap issues). Caused that.
No way is Schoen going to make this team super competitive in year 1. Hopefully by fixing the OL the offense looks like a modern offense and I would take that as a win this year.
You don't keep Bradberry or hurt your future cap down the road because you are going all out in year 1 when we still have so many question marks and holes to fill.
Let the young guys play and see what we have.
Agreed.
Excellent interview.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
I would guess either Otton or Winfrey. If it was Bellinger they were trying to trade up for then Schoen would have said that.
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Agreed.
Excellent interview.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
I would guess either Otton or Winfrey. If it was Bellinger they were trying to trade up for then Schoen would have said that.
yeah it seems like "tried" to trade up meaning most likely there target got snatched up.
Otherwise he could have said they ended up stay pat and there guy dropped.
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In comment 15698909 AcidTest said:
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Agreed.
Excellent interview.
I wonder who they tried to trade up for in the fourth round? Otton?
I would guess either Otton or Winfrey. If it was Bellinger they were trying to trade up for then Schoen would have said that.
yeah it seems like "tried" to trade up meaning most likely there target got snatched up.
Otherwise he could have said they ended up stay pat and there guy dropped.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was Otton. Mentioned on the thread that day when the round started he was probably best on the board and we were clearly looking at TE at that point.
Have a feeling they settled for Bellinger because of it...
Florio gets a lot of shit for having poked fun at every team at some point, but he does do a decent interview.
Toney hasn't shown he can score from anywhere yet.
When they were talking about Bradberry, there was a nugget that Skinner missed when he talked about him.
It seems they had a few deals structured to trade him, had the compensation worked out, but Bradberry and those teams couldn’t come to agreement. ( I’m assuming on an extension). So no deals. They also talked to his agent about what could be done between NY and him (extension, void years, etc) but also no dice. Seems like, after agreeing to re- structure twice last year (thanks Dave), he’s not inclined to do anything else now and is forcing his release.
Post June 1 release, 10 million + saved, move along to next problem.
Heard teams may trade up to #6 for Kayvon.
Supposedly Seattle absolutely loved him
p.s.--How sad for Go Terps that he will go into the season hoping with his fingers and toes crossed that Jones and Barkley do poorly.
Can Jones be an elite QB like Brady, Peyton, Rodgers, Warner, and Brees? Extremely doubtful. Can he be a good to very good QB who can win you Super Bowls like Simms and Eli? Possibly. There were times early on when Eli looked awful and Simms's early days included being benched for Scott Brunner. My best guess is that Jones--assuming he avoids injury--performs well enough for the Giants to have a winning season, but not necessarily well enough for franchise QB money. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he gets injured and the jury remains out on him until he proves he can stay healthy.
As for Barkley, it's all about returning to his 2018 capabilities. Is it possible? I have no idea, but it wouldn't be unprecedented. And the 2018 Barkley with three more years of experience in the NFL game is certainly worthy of the franchise tag.