Will defenses compress the LOS against the Giants?

remember to catch the ball, he’s the deep threat. If he’s not a cap casualty.

In comment 15699044 Eric from BBI said:

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so because then Saquon, Kadarius, Robinson, and Golladay will have a field day downfield. Remember, the Giants OL can block now.

They can? Would be a pleasure to see but think you are jumping the gun a bit.

A new OL, new offense, no cohesion, no true Center and maybe a few rookies playing will take some time to get it together. And maybe all of 2023.

They will test his ability to perform the quick-thinking, quick strike game. Jones will have to process quickly and clearly, something he has never been particularly good at. And while playing at an accelerated speed he will have to be deadly accurate in the short game, another thing he has been poor at.

In comment 15699042 George from PA said:

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.....so when it's all said and done....they will have deep threats... Golladay attacking middle & deep Toney, Shepard and Robinson can attack all 3. Barkley short and middle And the 4th WRs will be a deep threat.

Cannot stop them. Only hope to contain them.

In comment 15699067 Klaatu said:

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In comment 15699063 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: In comment 15699056 Klaatu said: Quote: Sure, better blocking will help, along with a better corps of WR's and RB's, but it's still all on him. JS has several times said the goal was to keep Jones on is feet so that they can see clearly who he is. Not those exact words but along those lines. I'm concerned about Jones seeing clearly (and quickly).

I think many have this concern. He may see things but there is a short-circuit upstairs going from that to executing. I think BD will find that out fairly quickly and probably already has a strong idea.

In comment 15699077 NYGgolfer said:

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In comment 15699044 Eric from BBI said: Quote: so because then Saquon, Kadarius, Robinson, and Golladay will have a field day downfield. Remember, the Giants OL can block now. They can? Would be a pleasure to see but think you are jumping the gun a bit. A new OL, new offense, no cohesion, no true Center and maybe a few rookies playing will take some time to get it together. And maybe all of 2023.

Meant all of 2022

Something to look to add next year. But defenses stacking the box to defend against Saquon, jet sweeps, and Jones RPO should be a good thing for Jones to have passing lanes open

Now, can he exploit them? Let’s see what Daboll and Kafka can do with him

No one playes 9 in the box unless it's 4th and 1 or a goal line situation. Even 8 in the box is very rare, especially with 3 WRs and a receiving TE on the field.

I say bring it. Like other posters have said. The biggest plays happen when the D crowds the LOS.

regarding the WR1. Corner1 on D as well.

Can not only throw the option pass when he's lined up as a h.b.; he can play QB. Johnson can line up as a running back, Saquon as a WR, and Jones has demonstrated great hands and straight line speed.
Pre snap motion and multiplicity should be fun this year.

In comment 15699077 NYGgolfer said:

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In comment 15699044 Eric from BBI said: Quote: so because then Saquon, Kadarius, Robinson, and Golladay will have a field day downfield. Remember, the Giants OL can block now. They can? Would be a pleasure to see but think you are jumping the gun a bit. A new OL, new offense, no cohesion, no true Center and maybe a few rookies playing will take some time to get it together. And maybe all of 2023.

I don't guarantee many things, but I guarantee that Neal will be better than Solder, Glowinski better than Hernandez, and Feliciano better than Price.

Ds and 8 in the box, it’ll be nice to see Ds playing honest.

is not significantly better. Hopefully they stay healthy as the depth may still not be sufficient.

Golladay, Robinson, and Slayton are all vertical threats.

Robinson is really going to surprise a lot of fans. Watch his Kentucky highlights, not his Nebraska highlights.

He's a classic, vertical receiver.

They can play that way, but NYG will take smart selective shots down field. Go back watch what Patriots have done over the years. Big difference between compressing the LOS against a plodding run game than 4-5 WR sets. Also, Beware the double move -it's more dangerous down field than trying to out run someone deep and we have some guys with dangers skills of that sort.

... right away. He seemed decent FA signing to me and had speed to take the top off. And he was better than Slayton... at least last year.

Let’s face it, 2022 is going to be a rough year for this team. The ONLY hope they have is a lucky explosive play or two in offense to keep them in the game. This team isn’t marching up and down the field like the Bills or Chiefs do.

Kafka comes from a deep first mentality offense. Jones throws an excellent deep bal. So please stack the line.

At his best, Sauron is the best big play threat RB in the Nfl. Once he breaks the first layer he’s gone. Look at his rookie year please stack the line against him.

KT and Robinson will most likely be up there with the league leaders in making the first tackler miss. So PLEASE don’t give help over top.

The teams only chance to compete is the lucky big play. Stacking the line might literally be the best thing to happen to the Giant’s. Other than padding Jones and Barkley’s stats - making them harder to resign…

In comment 15699095 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15699077 NYGgolfer said: Quote: In comment 15699044 Eric from BBI said: Quote: so because then Saquon, Kadarius, Robinson, and Golladay will have a field day downfield. Remember, the Giants OL can block now. They can? Would be a pleasure to see but think you are jumping the gun a bit. A new OL, new offense, no cohesion, no true Center and maybe a few rookies playing will take some time to get it together. And maybe all of 2023. I don't guarantee many things, but I guarantee that Neal will be better than Solder, Glowinski better than Hernandez, and Feliciano better than Price.

Do you not understand the nature of the playground jinx?! Good lord, someone find Thomas and guard his achilles tendons with your life.

1) Nothing, especially with rookies, is a given.
2) We still need to see how things go with injuries. If HEALTHY the Line should be significantly improved from last year, even if Neal does rookie things the vets alone should help and if Neal is the rare rookie OL who's actually good, I agree things could be really nice.
But a few key early season injuries could torpedo things quickly. Remember last year we were 'counting' on Thomas and Gates to be our best two linemen. Gates missed the season and Thomas missed a huge chunk of it; if they had each started 16 games ... well the team still would have sucked but I would wager the OL would have seemed a heck of a lot less awful.

prove they can beat extra in the box and basic cover two zone, yes defenses will challenge them.

Gadget player, how could they possibly use him, as if the giants were going to need to invent tricks or special plays to even get in the ball.

Then when Toney got on the field..he was just a WR, beating corners, from the slot or outside wide..and making it look easy. Most of his damage wasn’t in the short game, it was him beating guys downfield.

Robinson usage at Kentucky, coming from a background as a rb, it made sense that around 30% of his targets where coming at or behind the LOS. However, as acknowledged by Kentucky coaches he was Kentuckys deep threat and was used as such, he get separation and made plays downfield. The break down by Skinner showed one of his best routes was slot fade and he was constantly getttjg behind guys and making plays.

Does that make him a true burner or a true deep threat? No, but s lot of teams don’t have true burners/deep threats that are actually an integral part of the offense. Any team can trot out some 4th WR version of a John Ross combine hero deep threat..and those guys will run by corners and be a threat, but the guys who can do that AND routinely make plays downfield are pretty rare. Again, I’m using your definition of a true burner/deep threat.

Pre-NYG Golladay was a deep threat, not a burner but his impact was as a vertical threat making impact plays downfield, and he was successful. Doesn’t mean he was taking the top off a defense, but like Plax if he was left 1 on 1 with no safety help you liked your chances.

In short, all 3 of those guys all have some history of success as deeper threats with varying degrees of success.

Looking at our NFC east rivals I’m not sure I see the presence of a true take the top off deep threat on any of them…except for Terry McLaurin..he would qualify.

That’s not Lamb or Gallup. That’s not Devonta or Aj Brown, that’s not Dynami Brown or Dotson. That doesn’t mean any of those guys can’t make deep plays or be vertically threatening..but by your definition..none of them are those classic take the top off outside deep threats except for McLaurin.

Think this is not something I’m particularly worried about at all, improved line play will be a much more significant impact on the team.

I would wager to say that after all the stunts that the Defence in Practice throws at Jones,he will not be surprised at anything that he sees during a game..
This will help DJ a whole bunch..All he will have to do is read the look,and go to the open guy..There will be a man open,just find him quick..

In comment 15699077 NYGgolfer said:

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In comment 15699044 Eric from BBI said: Quote: so because then Saquon, Kadarius, Robinson, and Golladay will have a field day downfield. Remember, the Giants OL can block now. They can? Would be a pleasure to see but think you are jumping the gun a bit. A new OL, new offense, no cohesion, no true Center and maybe a few rookies playing will take some time to get it together. And maybe all of 2023.

Thomas can, Glowinski can, and what is scary to think is that Neal actually could become the best of the 3. We have about 10 bodies to find the right guy at LG/C so from that standpoint we have better insurance and depth compared to last year to make sure the interior isn’t just completely decimated and fielded by street free agent types.

If you have not watched Evan Neal, and I really hadn’t dug into him…you absolutely should go watch him. Before you do that, go watch 2 breakdowns..go watch Travon Walker breakdown by Skinner, or Top Billin first…have to have appreciation for Walker first. After that, go watch Bobby Skinners breakdown on Sam Williams from Ole Miss, the 6-4 270lber who ran a 4.4 at the combine.

Both of these guys are physical freaks, twitchy fast and can cause a lot of havoc.

There’s a very short list of defensive lineman in the NFL with Walkers physical gifts, like count on one hand short.

Afterwards go back and watch the Alabama/Ole Miss game, fast forward to just Bama offense and watch Neal operate. Then do the same with Bama/Georgia. Watch Neal.

This guys was just rock solid, unfazed. I really think the Giants stole one here.

To my last comment, I have seen Andrew Thomas lock down Chase Young multiple times now. Watched him to the same to Myles Garrett. Thomas has shown he can hold his own against the freaks of the NFL edge group. Neal has done some similar work at the college level.

The one knock by Sy on Thibs was developing secondary moves against quality NFL tackle types when his first move was stymied. He’s going to get all the work he needs to develop those moves against Thomas and Neal and will have a pretty strong idea of what he’s capable of in this league before he ever steps foot in an NFL game.

In comment 15699147 JonC said:

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prove they can beat extra in the box and basic cover two zone, yes defenses will challenge them.

You would think that with extra in the box running C2, that slants and slot fades would be open.

In comment 15699059 Eric from BBI said:

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Nate Solder, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, and Matt Skura were BAD... I mean REALLY bad. How bad? Three of them are still unemployed in a league STARVED for offensive linemen. And they started for the Giants. The Giants now have two top 7 picks at tackle, a veteran guard who played for a good Colts line and a C/G who played for a good Bills line. It may not be perfect, but this group can be average and likely way above average.

I'm going to say first that I completely agree and second, that how can D. Jones be "graded" and judged on a team with this bad of an OL and injuries everywhere over the last few seasons? With time, Jones is not bad but he rarely has enough time.

I think the first four games will be about learning the offense and each other so judging Jones may again be rough but if he stays healthy along with the offense I think Jones will be solid enough to warrant a possible extension. The key will be victories. Same goes for Barkley, can he produce behind an average OL?

In comment 15699175 Brown_Hornet said:

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In comment 15699147 JonC said: Quote: prove they can beat extra in the box and basic cover two zone, yes defenses will challenge them. You would think that with extra in the box running C2, that slants and slot fades would be open.

This could be why they're drafting receivers who excel at creating space and separation, to stretch and stress defenses, to find the seams and put it on its heels. Saquon should also become a factor provided Neal at al can block up without help.

Giants for seasons now. They are basically blitzing and covering the short routes. This has shut down the Giants because the OL caves easily. So the running game is dead because in effect the defense is run blitzing, and the passing game dies because the QB doesn't get enough time for the longer pass routes to develop. Since everything short is covered there is nothing there.

The way to destroy this is for the OL to function better. Give a QB a little time and the WR's will get open farther down the field and kill this. A good OL can also hit on a few quick hitting run plays because the they can open a hole there is no 2nd line of defense to stop the RB.

Unfortunately our OL was horrible, and not able to do either thing, which led to our offense being shut down completely.

In comment 15699059 Eric from BBI said:

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Nate Solder, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, and Matt Skura were BAD... I mean REALLY bad. How bad? Three of them are still unemployed in a league STARVED for offensive linemen. And they started for the Giants. The Giants now have two top 7 picks at tackle, a veteran guard who played for a good Colts line and a C/G who played for a good Bills line. It may not be perfect, but this group can be average and likely way above average.

And see what the two Carolina kids have maybe one can be a starting guard. Otherwise iol can be addressed next year and bam seems like only 10 years ago they started the oline rebuild 😂

He too has been hampered by the last regime's offensive scheme, and, he has produced with big, long plays down the field also. He deserves a chance in this offense too....

I hope that the Giants let it rip on both sides of the ball after watching Judge coached games for 2 years.

I want to throw on every down for a full half.
I want the defense to blitz all the time.
I want to see some cover zeros.
I want to see DJ throw a few picks taking chances down the field.
I want a Giants game to cover the over.
I want to see players having fun.
I want to see an offense that prefers 7s to 3s.

Enough with the ultra conservativism as a team and organization.
Let's be outside the box, innovative and entertaining for a change.

In comment 15699222 Dnew15 said:

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I hope that the Giants let it rip on both sides of the ball after watching Judge coached games for 2 years. I want to throw on every down for a full half. I want the defense to blitz all the time. I want to see some cover zeros. I want to see DJ throw a few picks taking chances down the field. I want a Giants game to cover the over. I want to see players having fun. I want to see an offense that prefers 7s to 3s. Enough with the ultra conservativism as a team and organization. Let's be outside the box, innovative and entertaining for a change.

Yes

As they should. Go back and look at Jones” rookie tape. Watch certain plays we are LIKELY to see in this offense. He was on time and accurate.
If Daboll does what he is saying he will- put Jones in an offense tailored to what he does well, makes his reads easier ans more definitive, I think it’s highly likely he plays to an average or above average level. That’s not bad since Eli only was elite ONE season, the Giants still got a lot of years of pretty darn good QB play.
Jones will never be Justin Herbert. But there’s a pretty good chance you can win with him. (Personally, I still wouldn’t give him a second contract).
When you chance personnel, there’s NO guarantee things get better. I can’t blame Schoen and Daboll wanting more info on Jones (the last two years were worthless from an evaluation standpoint).
Not picking up the extension was smart. By years end, they will know what direction to go in.

.

In comment 15699271 JonC said:

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.

agreed.. We can also save some money by letting Martin go, Brown, Harris, Gates (injury settlement) . That will gives us a bit more breathing room.

In comment 15699253 Dave on the UWS said:

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As they should. Go back and look at Jones” rookie tape. Watch certain plays we are LIKELY to see in this offense. He was on time and accurate. If Daboll does what he is saying he will- put Jones in an offense tailored to what he does well, makes his reads easier ans more definitive, I think it’s highly likely he plays to an average or above average level. That’s not bad since Eli only was elite ONE season, the Giants still got a lot of years of pretty darn good QB play. Jones will never be Justin Herbert. But there’s a pretty good chance you can win with him. (Personally, I still wouldn’t give him a second contract). When you chance personnel, there’s NO guarantee things get better. I can’t blame Schoen and Daboll wanting more info on Jones (the last two years were worthless from an evaluation standpoint). Not picking up the extension was smart. By years end, they will know what direction to go in.

From your mouth to god's ears!

Also, its easy to SAY you want to be aggressive. Less easy to feel that way after getting torched on an all-out blitz or Daniel throwing into a tight window and turning it over. Fanbase will be bitching and moaning as usual at the first sign of that.

In comment 15699222 Dnew15 said:

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I hope that the Giants let it rip on both sides of the ball after watching Judge coached games for 2 years. I want to throw on every down for a full half. I want the defense to blitz all the time. I want to see some cover zeros. I want to see DJ throw a few picks taking chances down the field. I want a Giants game to cover the over. I want to see players having fun. I want to see an offense that prefers 7s to 3s. Enough with the ultra conservativism as a team and organization. Let's be outside the box, innovative and entertaining for a change.

Sorry, meant to reply to this post^

Run, pass, catch, return and break the opponent's ankles.
Toney Highlights with commentary - ( New Window )

but if we have to lose 35-27 this year so be it.

At least they go down swinging. Set it up so the Giants can start winning games 45-35 the following year.

No more falling on your sword - ie QB sneaks out of your own end zone - because your too scared to take ANY chances. No more letting the opposition slowly matriculate down the field when the Giants are up 2 with less than two minutes to play. Let's just F'n go for the throat. Get that winning mentality.

I'd rather they go out in a blaze of glory than like a coward. Maybe this team will grow a set if they're allowed to.

AND you know what - start that shit in preseason game one. They have to snap this losing mentality somehow, some way...and the only way to do it is to start winning.

In comment 15699116 Johnny5 said:

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... right away. He seemed decent FA signing to me and had speed to take the top off. And he was better than Slayton... at least last year.

That was my first thought when I read the OP. He was better than I expected.

Showed well and offered both potential and value.

They can bring everyone up, that can work if it flusters Jones. However, those players have plus plus 10 yard spilts. They will get separation in a hurry and because the defense is up, is a shorter throw to go over the top, easier to execute. The other thing is if Jones can identify the 1 v 1, if the defense is crowding the line, make one guy miss and you are running a long way free.

needs to actually be available to practice and follow through.

In comment 15699078 Producer said:

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They will test his ability to perform the quick-thinking, quick strike game. Jones will have to process quickly and clearly, something he has never been particularly good at. And while playing at an accelerated speed he will have to be deadly accurate in the short game, another thing he has been poor at.

Jones should use pump fakes to help receivers get separation or at the very least create a seam.
Just the way we drew it up in the dirt in Queens

and all pretty successful.

Many teams just play regular base defense as well as Jones & Co. haven't really figured out yet how to convert many third downs in succession and/or actually score once in the red zone so no need to get too cute...

In comment 15699291 Rod in St Cloud said:

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Run, pass, catch, return and break the opponent's ankles. Toney Highlights with commentary - ( New Window )

Yes, when Toney is on the field..he is a problem for defensive coordinators to account for. He looked like the best offensive player(non QB) on the field for either team in the game vs Dallas last year.

The Giants identified his talent correctly...would love to see him put it all together this year and stay healthy and leave the backpage news to others.

more time to throw. His problem has been processing what’s going on and pocket awareness. Not sure that going to get better, but perhaps the scheme will allow him to get the ball out faster if WRs are schemed to be open.

In comment 15699423 Simms11 said:

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more time to throw. His problem has been processing what’s going on and pocket awareness. Not sure that going to get better, but perhaps the scheme will allow him to get the ball out faster if WRs are schemed to be open.

I disagree with this, at least on the processing. I know it's the popular opinion but I don't see his issue as processing but rather trust in what he sees and in his teammates. On a few of his misses you can see that he made the right read, he just didn't trust it and didn't pull the trigger. Hopefully Daboll and company can coach that out of him. See it and let it fly. He seemed to do this much more as a rookie.

I think he short circuits transferring the processing to the right decision and then executed it. Garret and now BD have both said he has to let it rip so your impressions may not be off. TBD I guess.

Is to spread teams out across the field to create some space in middle for a lot of quick-hitting option routes for our YAC guys. If teams sit on the short stuff Toney/Robinson will hit them with a move and go deep, both are capable of doing that in hurry. If teams start bracketing them inside then they'll throw up jump balls to Golladay 1v1 on the boundaries or you try to get Barkley 1v1 on a linebacker. At least that's my best guess at a plan until they get punched in the mouth a few times. Hopefully the OL is improved.

IMO it makes sense as to why they dialed in on Robinson. That was a pure need pick, full stop and I think they knew that. If they were just looking for a pure gadget guy they could have waited so there's something else about Robinson's game beyond combo back skills that thinned out the draft options enough for them to take a guy with his profile there. My guess is how often he attacked the deep middle with those types of routes in that Rams scheme at Kentucky. There's a year 1 skill they felt was integral to their plans and thats my best guess.

In comment 15699447 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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I think he short circuits transferring the processing to the right decision and then executed it. Garret and now BD have both said he has to let it rip so your impressions may not be off. TBD I guess.

Yep for sure. I think if there's any staff good for him it's this one. To bad we didn't get them in his rookie year. I have a feeling this year he shows he can be a better than decent QB but it won't be enough for them to keep him. And that will suck because who knows when we get the next great QB... if ever. I knew we would miss Eli.... lol