Let's Talk Back-Up Running Back

But it's also a position that you dont want to spend too many resources on - especially when you're team has a ton of other holes

A RB from the Bills. He and Brieda are the backups. People keep forgetting that.

I can see around 100 touches depending on his health - that's 5-6 per game and that sounds about right unless Barkley misses time. I like how he/Barkley's skill sets are similar so we aren't completely showing our hand when a sub is made.

between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped.

Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes.

This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks.

obvious talents. In SF he was successful enough in their rotation that he got the big(ish) deal in Miami, but then Flores buried him.

and even in Buffalo he made the most of the few opportunities he got but then when other guys who aren't world beaters got healthy he was right back on ice.

if Daboll hadn't coached him i wouldn't have much hope for his role here, but since he has you would think Breida views this as a fit to get his career back on track.

I presume part of their comfort not drafting a RB was that they like both he and Williams and think they can handle work if necessary. And both know the offense to some degree. I like the UDFA they signed but am surprised they didn't grab a Kyren Williams type on day 3.

In comment 15700211 BSIMatt said:

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between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped. Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes. This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks.

This is a good point.

your post would not be fair without including these highlights as well.

He is not being discussed at all, but has a chance
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 15700216 YANKEE28 said:

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your post would not be fair without including these highlights as well. He is not being discussed at all, but has a chance Link - ( New Window )

I posted them above.

In comment 15700211 BSIMatt said:

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between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped. Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes. This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks.

i don't remember if it was schoen or daboll but 1 of them pointed out that against KC the bills did call a single run in the first half of the game - all pass plays.

in which case the offensive philosophy will basically be the exact opposite of what it's been the last 2 years under judge/garrett, which is probably a good place to start.

immediately signed Breida and Williams. My guess is that absent injuries, Brightwell is cut. Maybe they put him on the PS if he clears waivers.

Barkley is likely gone after this season. I don't see the Giants offering him a second contract. Breida is also a FA after this season. My guess is RB is addressed in next year's draft. Can't fix every hole in one offseason. Look at our WRs.

a Day 3 pick. They were all-in on James Cook but Buffalo went awfully early to grab that asset. I guess Schoen was less enchanted with the others.

I still think it was a mistake not to put Barkley's replacement on the roster this season. Let him start out lower on depth chart and mix him as the season goes along. And possibly could have had our RB1 for 2023 because it won't be Saquon...

here we come! KG returns!!! (the Houston version that is).

Eric. I missed that.

He is a bigger powerful back who can help

In comment 15700220 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 15700211 BSIMatt said: Quote: between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped. Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes. This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks. i don't remember if it was schoen or daboll but 1 of them pointed out that against KC the bills did call a single run in the first half of the game - all pass plays. in which case the offensive philosophy will basically be the exact opposite of what it's been the last 2 years under judge/garrett, which is probably a good place to start.

So, this guy has never been a coach on one of the teams I follow, college or NFL. But I consider him a national treasure and one of my favorites to listen to when talking football. Mike Leach discussing balanced offense, and it goes to your point regarding the Bills not calling a single run play vs KC in that first half.

Distilled down, he considers balanced offense distribution of touches among your playmakers, not distribution of plays between run or pass. An interesting take, and this guy is full of them.
Mike Leach on a balanced offense - ( New Window )

Slightly off topic:
I do believe James Cook was who they wanted and Buffalo knew it and that they had to take him in 2nd round because he wasn't making it past the Giants in the 3rd.

Future profile = James Cook
Who is coming out next year that fits this profile???

and his air raid is probably the 2nd most successful coaching tree other than Saban's assistants.

he's a little nuts but a lot of his concepts were ahead of the curve and the way the rules changed only turbo charged that.

Devontae Booker, who looked better than Saquon Barkley at times last year, remains unemployed.

Shows you what other teams thought of our roster.

In comment 15700246 rasbutant said:

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Slightly off topic: I do believe James Cook was who they wanted and Buffalo knew it and that they had to take him in 2nd round because he wasn't making it past the Giants in the 3rd. Future profile = James Cook Who is coming out next year that fits this profile???

If the Giants were really interested in Cook, Schoen has to be pissed about all of the stories out there early on that he was their guy.

I thought they might pull the trigger with him with their 2nd round pick....and then Buffalo took him.

My guess is they could have still gotten Robinson in the 3rd. And then Ezeudu with the 2nd 3rd round pick That was really my only beef with this draft.

chance, just as if we drafted him on day 3. The guy may be a diamond in the rough (so to speak). Certainly he has more upside than the aging vets we have picked up

In comment 15700250 Eric from BBI said:

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Devontae Booker, who looked better than Saquon Barkley at times last year, remains unemployed. Shows you what other teams thought of our roster.

they really made a lot of bizarre back roster moves. i think that would be my wtf were they thinking. signing a golladay you get it, both the upside and the downside. same with jackson. and even solder. whether you thought they were good moves, bad moves, or indifferent they are understandable - premium position players who had made pro bowls and filled needs. whatever the odds of their success here it wasn't 0%.

but just like the previous regime before them, the inability to do what Schoen did this year on the OL and just bring in a bunch of competent bodies for competition was mind boggling. there was no more excuse to go into last season with lemiuex, hernandez, and peart penciled in as uncontested starters with only UDFAs behind them as there was to do the same with Flowers and Hart in 2017. Just total magical thinking with blinders on to reality.

Booker was the same - they had barkley going through a serious rehab beyond a normal ACL, on a tight timeline, barely cleared in time for camp, and they overpay 1 journeyman for a run heavy offense without a shred of explosiveness.

In comment 15700250 Eric from BBI said:

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Devontae Booker, who looked better than Saquon Barkley at times last year, remains unemployed. Shows you what other teams thought of our roster.

I like Booker but much like Gallman before him (although Gallman was worse), he still left a lot of yards on the table. He's a solid backup but shouldn't be seeing close to 10 touches a game.

a) they may have plans to use W Robinson and/or Toney in the backfield at times

b) they may have seen things they like out of Brightwell and thought he was equivalent to any late-round guy they could have added

will be signed by a team that has injuries at RB, but probably not before then.

I think he and Robinson were checking some of the same boxes for them in that 2nd/3rd round range. Once we went Robinson, I'm not sure Cook would have been the pick in the 3rd.

He's just a jack of all trades, master of none. A guy like him would be great on our team just to help as a pass blocker. Not sure we have a guy on the roster that can do that.

in FA on the cheap and are comfortable with them for the season. They did some work on RBs but werent able to grab their targets so we are going to roll with what we have.

I dont see a lot of between the tackle runs for this team. I bet Toney & Robinson get some carries from the RB spot too. Shuffle passes on short yardage like KC does. It should be fun to watch unlike the last 2 seasons of plodding.

The only thing that would hold back the O is health. We simply havent had skilled players on the field for stretches of games. The guys we signed are more skilled in space where Booker was more of a plodder but reliable pass catcher.

One interesting note, before DJ went down we actually beat 3 teams that wound up with a winning record last year and nearly beat KC. I believe that we are now a middle of the pack team if the skill guys can stay on the field. The scheme and talent level have been raised on O and D. We are probably between 6-10 wins. We won 4 games last year and pretty much lost no talent. Evan Engram was our biggest loss, as Joe Schoen would say "Reflect on what I just said" Big gains on the OL & DL, yes they are rookies but we are not replacing All-Pros, even with rookie mistakes these guys should be leaps and bounds better than what we had.

In comment 15700288 robbieballs2003 said:

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He's just a jack of all trades, master of none. A guy like him would be great on our team just to help as a pass blocker. Not sure we have a guy on the roster that can do that.

Agreed. Booker was a good backup to the oft-injured Barkley. This year, his cap number was too high so they went out and got 2 cheaper guys, taking a chance they can do combined what Booker could do.

(and I honestly am about our starter too)

But as was said, it's hard to make any kind of judgement not knowing what the scheme is going to be and how the RB position is going to be used. I assume maybe 40% of the time in the "normal way", I mean, football is still football, but still hard to react to our RB's without seeing the play calls and what they do.

In comment 15700215 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15700211 BSIMatt said: Quote: between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped. Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes. This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks. This is a good point.

"Empty" puts a ton of pressure on the Defense if the QB can run.

In comment 15700246 rasbutant said:

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Slightly off topic: I do believe James Cook was who they wanted and Buffalo knew it and that they had to take him in 2nd round because he wasn't making it past the Giants in the 3rd. Future profile = James Cook Who is coming out next year that fits this profile???

I think they were looking at Cook for the same role they envision Robinson playing, but maybe had him as a 1B, looking for one or the other. Either a slot that can move into the backfield or a RB that can move into the slot was a clear priority.

In comment 15700310 Ivan15 said:

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In comment 15700288 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: He's just a jack of all trades, master of none. A guy like him would be great on our team just to help as a pass blocker. Not sure we have a guy on the roster that can do that. Agreed. Booker was a good backup to the oft-injured Barkley. This year, his cap number was too high so they went out and got 2 cheaper guys, taking a chance they can do combined what Booker could do.

I understand why we released him. I'm saying I wouldn't mind if he came back on a team friendly deal.

I made a thread about him earlier this week. He is a sleeper to take over the RB2 role by the end of the season IMO.

Before his ankle injury messed him up, he had elite speed at 22.3 mph on a TD run, which was the fastest RB play back in like 2018 or 2019. He has breakaway speed and the ability to take it to the house.

I never got to see what Brightwell can do, but Corbin was expected to get drafted, so he was an excellent FA acquisition. He's not speedy, but he's more like a Leveon Bell type who waits on his blockers and then hits the opening. I really don't know much about Williams other that he worked behind Michael Carter and Jevonte Williams, and barely played for Buffalo.

Now that we actually have blockers, we could have a better-than-average running game. When Barkley comes out of the game, Daboll will still have some excellent options. Speed, goal line, pass blockers, or dual-threat.

In comment 15700211 BSIMatt said:

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between WR/RB in the Giants offense right now. Rather than focusing on a position, it seems their tendency is to focus on players that operate well in open space and create chunk yac plays regardless of where they line up when the ball is snapped. Barkely, Breida, Toney, Robinson..but even a guy like Richie James they signed from the 49ers fits that mold. Guys that can get out and either take a handoff be it up the middle or jet, or operate as extension of the running game on shorter routes. This really does feel like an emphasis on shifting towards more spread looks.

Really seems that way. Welcome to the 21st century?

That's why he can't stick anywhere.

The GIANTS lack a back capable of converting short yardage plays, and that is going to come back and haunt them again this season.

Platzgummer. I'm curious to see if his talent in a European League could be coached up enough to play in the NFL.

I'm not advocating a return to the 80's, I understand how the game has changed, but if you're able to run the ball effectively, especially in, say, short-yardage or goal-line situations, or when you're trying to eat up some clock, why wouldn't you?

In comment 15700263 PatersonPlank said:

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chance, just as if we drafted him on day 3. The guy may be a diamond in the rough (so to speak). Certainly he has more upside than the aging vets we have picked up

Jashaun Corbin describes his running style - ( New Window )

In comment 15700252 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15700246 rasbutant said: Quote: Slightly off topic: I do believe James Cook was who they wanted and Buffalo knew it and that they had to take him in 2nd round because he wasn't making it past the Giants in the 3rd. Future profile = James Cook Who is coming out next year that fits this profile??? If the Giants were really interested in Cook, Schoen has to be pissed about all of the stories out there early on that he was their guy.

I think we make too much of these " stories ". I mean really you think every GM and person who was at Georgia's pro day didnt SEE the Giants being interested in him? Do we think that other teams dont KNOW who the players are talking to? Like its some big sercet. Or they dont KNOW what the other teams Top 30 visits are?

This stuff aint deep state secrets..

In comment 15700968 Nonfootballexpert said:

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Platzgummer. I'm curious to see if his talent in a European League could be coached up enough to play in the NFL.

I thought it was strange to not at least give him a shot during the regular season once we were out of it. He has some wiggle and did show some capabilities during preseason.

UConn4523 said:

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I like how he/Barkley's skill sets are similar so we aren't completely showing our hand when a sub is made.

I was going to question the similarities, but sadly, you are right: Our 230 lb. touched-by-G*d running back resembles a journeyman whom he outweighs by 50 pounds.

Except Brieda probably has better vision. And he might be a better blocker. 🙄

In comment 15702661 Big Blue Blogger said:

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UConn4523 said: Quote: I like how he/Barkley's skill sets are similar so we aren't completely showing our hand when a sub is made. I was going to question the similarities, but sadly, you are right: Our 230 lb. touched-by-G*d running back resembles a journeyman whom he outweighs by 50 pounds. Except Brieda probably has better vision. And he might be a better blocker. 🙄

👏

In comment 15702661 Big Blue Blogger said:

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UConn4523 said: Quote: I like how he/Barkley's skill sets are similar so we aren't completely showing our hand when a sub is made. I was going to question the similarities, but sadly, you are right: Our 230 lb. touched-by-G*d running back resembles a journeyman whom he outweighs by 50 pounds. Except Brieda probably has better vision. And he might be a better blocker. 🙄

Barkley had more TDs as a rookie than Breida has had in his whole career.

Matt Breida has only played well when playing in the best run scheme in football (SF) and hasn't been durable ever in his career. He also doesn't have a ton of reps as a blocker in his career so that's a fairly large unknown.

I fully support adding Breida, I like his skillset. But he's very flawed and ignoring that just to make sure you can shit on Barkley and the GM quotes is fairly lame.

Unfortunately, we may never see that Barkley again. And Breida does have a nice feel for the outside zone/stretch stuff.

I do struggle to separate Saquon Barkley from the bag of crap who drafted him.

In comment 15703841 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Unfortunately, we may never see that Barkley again. And Breida does have a nice feel for the outside zone/stretch stuff. I do struggle to separate Saquon Barkley from the bag of crap who drafted him.

In a year he'll just be another very forgettable ex-Giant.

“If only he hadn’t hurt his knee…”

As backups, that is. Least of our problems. Corbin might have some upside. No clue about Brightwell, except that drafting him made very little sense.

drafts a special teams player in Gary Brightwell last year?

Now Saquon is a lame duck RB1 and we don't draft any running backs?

I hope guys like Belton, McFadden, Davidson show something because this team really could have used some fresh legs with a real investment in a RB with one of those Day 3 picks...