His skills are negated by the fact that all a defense has to do is blitz when Barkley is in and they will completely shut down the Giants offense and/or generate turnovers.
Despite his talent, he has a net negative impact on the offense. It's ridiculous, given his size and strength, that he is not more proficient at picking up blitzers.
Speed outside to force Ds to spread out and play honest.
A better OL than recently can then run SB for gains.
SB will also roll wide on sweeps and screens , further forcing D’s to play honest.
Even use him in the slot and 4/5WR sets.
Like real offenses we have been jealous of for a while.
If SB continues to play shy, we have other RBs, and he’s gone in 2023.
if he plays well enough to get a good offer in October they have to consider it.
if he plays well, and more importantly the offense improves and he's a big part of it, they also need to consider keeping him on the tag for another year because there's very little downside. The RB tag is going to be half the AAV of Christian Kirk, whose entire career is basically the same # of TDs barkley had in his rookie year.
and the cap is about to jump up so cost controlled prices (like the tag on the lowest value position) are going to look like value deals.
in the unlikely event the Giants somehow have a top 10 offense next year and Barkley is one of the top 2 or 3 players on the offense, then of course the Giants will try and bring him back.
I am a supporter of him. His first year he won rookie of the year, and made All-Pro, even with our crappy line.
However availability is a big thing, and he has been injured since. Last year, as all the doctors said, was a rebuilding year for him. For major knee surgery like he had, which was worse than most because he broke multiple ligaments, a 2 year recovery is normal. Its not just the physical issues, but the mental that he can cut hard and not get reinjured. I was very encouraged by the fact that he ran for 100 yds in the last game, with our crappy line and running up the middle mostly.
I am really looking forward to see if he is back. I think people forget just how explosive he was as a rookie. I also think people who hated the pick just try to brush that off. He was great.
His skills are negated by the fact that all a defense has to do is blitz when Barkley is in and they will completely shut down the Giants offense and/or generate turnovers.
Despite his talent, he has a net negative impact on the offense. It's ridiculous, given his size and strength, that he is not more proficient at picking up blitzers.
I disagree on all levels. He is not great at pickups but he's not awful. And he should be running swing routes against the blitz. /The old West Coast offense, if you blitz you're leaving a vacant hole and a linebacker is absent from the defense. everytime there's a blitz, Barclay should br a threat to score.
You are giving away so much and allowing the defense to dicate turems when you keep him in to block... Folly.
RE: Trade him at the earliest available opportunity
And a playoff caliber team in need of a RB, a big play pass receiving stud RB, trades and overpays.
This team is being built for the future, a run in 2023 but more likely 2024 and that only happens if we draft well and get rid of players who get hurt a lot. This can mean Jones too.
My gut says Saquon could be traded due to cap but getting value for him only happens if he explodes right out of the gates and helps Jones look good too.
Lets say the Giants were to trade Saquon and their #4 & 6 for a team's #2, #3 and #4 or something crazy like that? We move up in the draft and it looks like a good draft while not looking at a big contract? With Jones, we may need the tag if he shows he is worthy.
Bottom Line: we gotta get value for the #2 pick of 2018 and the BEST value is trading him while he is doing well. But if he has a top season and walks we may get a #3 compensation. Or perhaps best case is a top team, say 5-1 despite lack of RB, trades for him giving us their #1. That gives us ammo to even trade up for a QB in the 2023 draft should we target one?
and use the pick to draft his replacement. I hope that Schoen didn't actually pass on any offers and it was only Saquon's $7M salary that prevented it from happening.
Now that has passed, so maybe he doesn't look too bad in first half of the season and we can trade him before the Oct deadline for a 2023 pick (or developmental player).
trade SB right now. But who is going to give us even a 7th for a massively overpaid running back who might potentially be good. He was the second best running back on our team last year. The best running back on our team last year is currently unemployed.
RE: Best thing that can happen to this team: Saquon shines 6 straight game
And a playoff caliber team in need of a RB, a big play pass receiving stud RB, trades and overpays.
This team is being built for the future, a run in 2023 but more likely 2024 and that only happens if we draft well and get rid of players who get hurt a lot. This can mean Jones too.
My gut says Saquon could be traded due to cap but getting value for him only happens if he explodes right out of the gates and helps Jones look good too.
Lets say the Giants were to trade Saquon and their #4 & 6 for a team's #2, #3 and #4 or something crazy like that? We move up in the draft and it looks like a good draft while not looking at a big contract? With Jones, we may need the tag if he shows he is worthy.
Bottom Line: we gotta get value for the #2 pick of 2018 and the BEST value is trading him while he is doing well. But if he has a top season and walks we may get a #3 compensation. Or perhaps best case is a top team, say 5-1 despite lack of RB, trades for him giving us their #1. That gives us ammo to even trade up for a QB in the 2023 draft should we target one?
Barkley will be a part of the offense this season. But regardless of his play an oft injured running back in his 5 th season is not highly valued in today s NFL.
Certainly not to the point that he would have any trade value even close to what his draft capital was.
It was a mistake and the team has paid dearly, cannot be undone.
RBs don't have a long life-span in the NFL. Maybe his time has passed.
I don't think he can be resurrected like OJ Anderson was.
His salary is too high for what he did last year. If he still has speed, I'd consider WR-flanker for him.
If he is really good at the start of the year I try to trade him while his value is high. If there is no market for him he plays out the year. If he stays healthy and produces you offer him a short term prove it deal. No long term deal should be on the table for a RB with a history of missing games every year.
They're trying to figure out how the new coaching staff is going to magically unlock the talent and health for Barkley and Jones.
I just don't see it.
I get it a little more with Barkley. Fans want to see that player again and will hold out hope for that. There was undeniable talent there, although his game has some glaring holes, particularly his inability to pick up blitzes and unwillingness to play a physical game.
Jones? Fans here seem to be hoping he will suddenly become something he never was. At times he has looked like an average NFL QB. Most times he has looked well below average. It’s nice to have hope, but I just don’t know what it is based on. It is blind hope.
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
and yes obviously whether or not barkley is still an impact player
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
haha, shocking take...
not shocking to all the teams in the league who have used the tag and had players play on it over the past couple years. Or picked up 5th year options on their first round picks which is equivalent to using a transition tag. So basically every team in the NFL.
No it’s shocking how you continue to overvalue NYG players
for whatever reason. The two most important factors being are they good enough players to consider this level of pay and does the team have a reasonable chance to compete for a title over that short term.
for whatever reason. The two most important factors being are they good enough players to consider this level of pay and does the team have a reasonable chance to compete for a title over that short term.
can one of your other handles explain the word 'if' to you?
obviously whether or not barkley is still an impact player is very much an open question. you only tag him if he is and you haven't already traded him.
RE: RE: No it’s shocking how you continue to overvalue NYG players
for whatever reason. The two most important factors being are they good enough players to consider this level of pay and does the team have a reasonable chance to compete for a title over that short term.
can one of your other handles explain the word 'if' to you?
In comment 15701230 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
obviously whether or not barkley is still an impact player is very much an open question. you only tag him if he is and you haven't already traded him.
My handle gets if just fine. Except if isn't relevant in this case and other cases you continue to push the idea of franchising players like its a drug...Leonard Williams, DJ and Barkley amongst others. These guys aren't impactful players, or at least not impactful enough at the postions they play. And the NYG aren't competing for anything valuable in the years discussed so what is the point of a short term overpriced rental.
If I were calling the shots, my plans for hime would be
He is only useful to the Giants in '22, and since we are not contending, we should deal him.
Yep. Hope he plays well early and trade him by the trade deadline to a team needing a finish piece.
Maybe DJ does the same and they can trade him to a needy team.
Despite his talent, he has a net negative impact on the offense. It's ridiculous, given his size and strength, that he is not more proficient at picking up blitzers.
A better OL than recently can then run SB for gains.
SB will also roll wide on sweeps and screens , further forcing D’s to play honest.
Even use him in the slot and 4/5WR sets.
Like real offenses we have been jealous of for a while.
If SB continues to play shy, we have other RBs, and he’s gone in 2023.
if he plays well, and more importantly the offense improves and he's a big part of it, they also need to consider keeping him on the tag for another year because there's very little downside. The RB tag is going to be half the AAV of Christian Kirk, whose entire career is basically the same # of TDs barkley had in his rookie year.
and the cap is about to jump up so cost controlled prices (like the tag on the lowest value position) are going to look like value deals.
wow.. you would Franchise Tag a running back?
+ a million!
Would be a lot of fun if the offense can break out this year.
Back.
Barkley and the $$$ it will take to keep him is not worth it for this team.
However availability is a big thing, and he has been injured since. Last year, as all the doctors said, was a rebuilding year for him. For major knee surgery like he had, which was worse than most because he broke multiple ligaments, a 2 year recovery is normal. Its not just the physical issues, but the mental that he can cut hard and not get reinjured. I was very encouraged by the fact that he ran for 100 yds in the last game, with our crappy line and running up the middle mostly.
I am really looking forward to see if he is back. I think people forget just how explosive he was as a rookie. I also think people who hated the pick just try to brush that off. He was great.
you might as well put Toney or Robinson in the backfield if that's what you want.
and you can't build an offense around a guy that isn't going to finish the season.
Despite his talent, he has a net negative impact on the offense. It's ridiculous, given his size and strength, that he is not more proficient at picking up blitzers.
I disagree on all levels. He is not great at pickups but he's not awful. And he should be running swing routes against the blitz. /The old West Coast offense, if you blitz you're leaving a vacant hole and a linebacker is absent from the defense. everytime there's a blitz, Barclay should br a threat to score.
You are giving away so much and allowing the defense to dicate turems when you keep him in to block... Folly.
Ditto.
We need ammo for our QB next year and we don’t have many chips for picks.
This team is being built for the future, a run in 2023 but more likely 2024 and that only happens if we draft well and get rid of players who get hurt a lot. This can mean Jones too.
My gut says Saquon could be traded due to cap but getting value for him only happens if he explodes right out of the gates and helps Jones look good too.
Lets say the Giants were to trade Saquon and their #4 & 6 for a team's #2, #3 and #4 or something crazy like that? We move up in the draft and it looks like a good draft while not looking at a big contract? With Jones, we may need the tag if he shows he is worthy.
Bottom Line: we gotta get value for the #2 pick of 2018 and the BEST value is trading him while he is doing well. But if he has a top season and walks we may get a #3 compensation. Or perhaps best case is a top team, say 5-1 despite lack of RB, trades for him giving us their #1. That gives us ammo to even trade up for a QB in the 2023 draft should we target one?
Result? Short completions with Barkley easily being tackled.
The guy is a bad player. Those calling for him to be potentially franchised are utterly delusional. Utterly.
Trade him now for whatever you can get.
Now that has passed, so maybe he doesn't look too bad in first half of the season and we can trade him before the Oct deadline for a 2023 pick (or developmental player).
I am not optimistic anyone will want to do that.
They're trying to figure out how the new coaching staff is going to magically unlock the talent and health for Barkley and Jones.
I just don't see it.
This team is being built for the future, a run in 2023 but more likely 2024 and that only happens if we draft well and get rid of players who get hurt a lot. This can mean Jones too.
My gut says Saquon could be traded due to cap but getting value for him only happens if he explodes right out of the gates and helps Jones look good too.
Lets say the Giants were to trade Saquon and their #4 & 6 for a team's #2, #3 and #4 or something crazy like that? We move up in the draft and it looks like a good draft while not looking at a big contract? With Jones, we may need the tag if he shows he is worthy.
Bottom Line: we gotta get value for the #2 pick of 2018 and the BEST value is trading him while he is doing well. But if he has a top season and walks we may get a #3 compensation. Or perhaps best case is a top team, say 5-1 despite lack of RB, trades for him giving us their #1. That gives us ammo to even trade up for a QB in the 2023 draft should we target one?
Barkley will be a part of the offense this season. But regardless of his play an oft injured running back in his 5 th season is not highly valued in today s NFL.
Certainly not to the point that he would have any trade value even close to what his draft capital was.
It was a mistake and the team has paid dearly, cannot be undone.
His salary is too high for what he did last year. If he still has speed, I'd consider WR-flanker for him.
They're trying to figure out how the new coaching staff is going to magically unlock the talent and health for Barkley and Jones.
I just don't see it.
I get it a little more with Barkley. Fans want to see that player again and will hold out hope for that. There was undeniable talent there, although his game has some glaring holes, particularly his inability to pick up blitzes and unwillingness to play a physical game.
Jones? Fans here seem to be hoping he will suddenly become something he never was. At times he has looked like an average NFL QB. Most times he has looked well below average. It’s nice to have hope, but I just don’t know what it is based on. It is blind hope.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
Quote:
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
haha, shocking take...
Quote:
In comment 15701228 Section331 said:
Quote:
WTF? That is insane. If you want to keep him after this year, extend him so you can spread the guaranteed money out. Why the f*KC would you use the FT that way? Every $ goes against the cap.
(shouts into the void franchise tags carry a lower AAV than FMV for pro bowl level players and lower dead money risk than any contract extension)
haha, shocking take...
not shocking to all the teams in the league who have used the tag and had players play on it over the past couple years. Or picked up 5th year options on their first round picks which is equivalent to using a transition tag. So basically every team in the NFL.
can one of your other handles explain the word 'if' to you?
In comment 15701230 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
for whatever reason. The two most important factors being are they good enough players to consider this level of pay and does the team have a reasonable chance to compete for a title over that short term.
can one of your other handles explain the word 'if' to you?
In comment 15701230 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
obviously whether or not barkley is still an impact player is very much an open question. you only tag him if he is and you haven't already traded him.
My handle gets if just fine. Except if isn't relevant in this case and other cases you continue to push the idea of franchising players like its a drug...Leonard Williams, DJ and Barkley amongst others. These guys aren't impactful players, or at least not impactful enough at the postions they play. And the NYG aren't competing for anything valuable in the years discussed so what is the point of a short term overpriced rental.
I like this plan the most.
Best being a trade partner at the deadline OR staying healthy all year and getting that value in a comp pick.