Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
The Giants are releasing CB James Bradberry after failing to find a trade partner, per source. The move will create $10.1M in cap savings while leaving $11.7M in dead money.
(Savings will be $11.5M with $10.4M dead this year and $1.4M dead in 2023 if they make it a June 1 cut)
to be done. I never thought they would restructure him. I'm also not surprised they couldn't find a trade partner. Best of luck to him. He gets a chance to go to a contender and we get much needed cap space.
If they make it a post June 1st cut, they can't use the $ until after that. So, don't expect all draft picks to be signed until after June 1.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
Paul Schwartz
✔
@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
Boy I certainly hope not but Im sure Bradberry isnt happy with the timing. It was a bad gamble that cost an additional $2mil. Cant blame Bradberry for not wanting to negotiate with teams he didnt choose.
We definitely took a hit to the talent level on the team today.
I wish him the best unless he goes to the Eagles or any other NFC East team.
Will they have any money left over after signing the rookies to bring in a cheap veteran CB? Maybe guaranteed playing time with a solid defense might be enough to entice someone decent to sign fairly cheap for a year with an eye towards making more money next year.
Jordan Raanan
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@JordanRaanan
Releasing James Bradberry saves $10.1M vs. salary cap. He was set to count $21.9M.
It was a $$$ move. Giants needed to find cap space to operate this season (sign rookies, make in-season moves, etc.) Currently less than $7M under cap.
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
I just want to be clear that I was not focusing on the hate part. It was wishing him success even if he goes to Philly. I have no idea if he will but they'll definitely be players for him.
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
I just want to be clear that I was not focusing on the hate part. It was wishing him success even if he goes to Philly. I have no idea if he will but they'll definitely be players for him.
after DG's FA spending spree in 2021 created a mess of the cap situation and Schoen publicly stated he wanted to create $40M in cap space in 2022. Bradberry had no obligation to make it easy on the Giants by negotiating with potential trade partners and let's be honest this team is not 1 player away from competing for a playoff spot.
It’s hard to replaced one of the top corners in this league.. This definitely affects this defense. You always need at least one ace at the CB position. DG did this team wrong by signing Adoree Jackson, that was a bad move! DG was as awful as you can get. Smh.
seemed clear all offseason he just wasnt a fit for the new D
the fact that he didn't extend with 2 teams willing to trade for him was a bad omen that there'd be a reasonable extension that made sense for both sides.
kudos to schoen for sticking to his guns. annoying 1 of the trades couldn't have worked out to at least get another pick and maybe even another CB in the door.
Maybe you should post dollar bills, because that's all this comes down to. Mara and money. Bradberry can play.
Should be fun to see this season ruined by no corner back play. It's usually the OL or the passrush or the QB, might be fun to see some new form of suck.
concerns about this unit again? Does the DB unit become Shoen's saga? We totally ignored it knowing we would have to release our CB1.
Wut? Your comment is replete with errors. Back to major concerns? They never left, given the JB contract black hole.
JS 'totally ignored' CBs knowing he'd have to release CB1? He said he had deals in place: JB camp would not budge on contract demands, per most info.
Per Asshat rico, Giants wanted Sauce at #5 and McCreary in 3rd or 4th? JS drafted a lesser know CB at 3b (I think).
Follow the team much?
RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Every other team in the NFL knew that if the Giants didn't trade Bradberry they would have to release him. And Bradberry's team didn't seem particularly interested in helping come to new contract terms as part of a trade.
I'm glad Schoen took his medicine and didn't kick the can down the road.
RE: Watch him go to Philly or Washington and become a pro-bowler again
Best option, exponentially better than investing more money in an older player who is a bad fit.
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
His play wasnt a bad fit, his contract was
Bradberry surrendered the most touch downs and third most yards of any defender in the NFL last year. And particularly struggled in man coverage.
Seems opposite of Martendale is aiming for, unless of course being terrible is the goal. Who knows, right?
And Bradberry was a pro bowler the year before that. And they were playing a ton of off coverage last season, and they lost Martinez so they couldnt stop the run
Paul Schwartz
✔
@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
Nothing in return. Bad contract, no pick, no compensatory pick, and now a hole in the secondary to plug just to sign our draft picks.
The Dave Gettleman stench will continue on for some time.
AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Paul Schwartz
✔
@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
Nothing in return. Bad contract, no pick, no compensatory pick, and now a hole in the secondary to plug just to sign our draft picks.
The Dave Gettleman stench will continue on for some time.
Yep, this is how the collateral damage continues to hang around.
Wink expects his CBs to come up in run support and tackle, not a strong suit of JB. Not so concerned about the fit questions, it's a financial decision.
Seemed slower to me last year and not a great fit at his cost in this system. Wink will get more eyes on the players in the coming weeks to see if they need to add a cheaper vet at some point.
I don't have anything against Bradberry. His release is a direct result of the incompetent way this roster was assembled pre-Schoen.
This is Schoen cleaning up someone else's mess, and he has to make the 2022 team worse on the field to do it.
Im not sure im understanding here (and this is not directed at you)...are people under the impression, Bradberry or no Bradberry, that the Giants are going to have a competitive team this year? The overriding sentiment ive seen has been that we continue to have one of the worst rosters in the NFL, and thats with or without Bradberry. If this is true, then what are we melting down about losing Bradberry for? Again, if the roster thing is true, well, heres the news...yeah, there are gonna be a LOT of open WR's. Just like last year. And the year before that. And ....you get the picture.
first that we couldn't afford to keep him and I think he would have been great in Winks Def. Second we couldn't trade for draft pick. Third Bradberry released so late hurts him. Sucks all around.
RE: RE: RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
Given the state of the roster an amazingly good season will be to win 8 games. The team isn't good enough to justify keeping Bradberry and extending him, which would and should be purely on Braberry's terms.
He's a good football player who is going to be missed, even in a down year for him. Sucks but it is what it is.
Schoen misplayed this early by not taking a late round pick and holding out for something better. And misjudging the leverage Team Bradberry had.
Regardless, the inevitable has occurred.
It would be smart now to find a buyer/partner for Barkley to open up another $8M in cap space for the chance to buy some cheap cuts as teams start to make tough roster choices.
without looking at the books, but it's easy to cut everyone when the owner is scared shitless of losing anymore and likely welcomes a no pressure type season in 2022. Must be nice.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
It has to be before it gets better. Sucks, but there is no other way to REBUILD the team. No more Re-tooling half-measures.
It's been bad for so long. What's one more season with a new regime to bring hope?
I don't have anything against Bradberry. His release is a direct result of the incompetent way this roster was assembled pre-Schoen.
This is Schoen cleaning up someone else's mess, and he has to make the 2022 team worse on the field to do it.
I agree with you (dear god how can that be- lol) and honestly have no attachment to Bradberry or almost anyone currently on the roster. We have been inept for the last 5 years, now is the time to make some changes and people need to go.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
I get your anger. We are in this position because Gettleman took a blowtorch to the franchise for 4 seasons. It's just not fixable in 6 months.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
without looking at the books, but it's easy to cut everyone when the owner is scared shitless of losing anymore and likely welcomes a no pressure type season in 2022. Must be nice.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
I wish Schoen had cut or traded a lot more people than he did. There's no baby in the bathwater he inherited.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I was hoping that he could stick around, as I felt his presence would be helpful to Wink’s defense, although it is unclear if Wink wanted him as his CB1. Let’s hope Robinson fills in nicely. We can only hope, or we will be looking for another CB1.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
Schoen misplayed this early by not taking a late round pick and holding out for something better. And misjudging the leverage Team Bradberry had.
I don't really fault him that much, maybe it's the honeymoon period. I think most speculated that Bradberry would have a stronger market and it's becoming apparent that players are a little bit better at understanding their leverage than they have in the past.
I think his two big mistakes were advertising the Giants plan to slash 40m dollars from the cap and not taking into account how Bradberry would play it. He probably didn't understand how ready the fan base was for a true rebuild and didn't need to set those expectations with them by advertising that strategy. He also probably should have gotten an idea on if and what Bradberry was looking for in an extension to see if teams were in the ballpark.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
It's not that he spent all the money, he mis-spent it.
The cost of mistake contracts is you F yourself into situations where you may have to cut guys you don't want to to cut because you blew it with Solder and Golladay and other dead money.
I can see the argument for wanting to keep Bradberry, but he also has to want to re-work his deal and he didn't.
Which ironically is why he's cut. The mistake they made in the deal was the 3 year structure really.
They restructured this deal twice I think in 2021 to help pay for other awful decisions.
Yup, that's ultimately why he was cut. I think if they gave him a 4 year deal at the outset instead of 3, Schoen would have been more able to move him too.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
If they make it a post June 1st cut, they can't use the $ until after that. So, don't expect all draft picks to be signed until after June 1.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
haven't bought a jersey since 2005, Eli.
I'll get over it. I just don't have to like it. Was quietly hoping this D would be good this season. You only notice the corners when they are either really great or really bad. I hope we aren't really bad in 2022 because I'd like to see this team flirt with a winning record.
AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Not only that, some posters were convinced Schoen should take his time and trade him after the draft to negotiate a better pick with desperate teams. There was no hurry to take less before the Draft since the cap room wasn't needed yet was the logic used I recall.
Not a surprise so simply time to move on. Aaron Robinson was traded up for, he should get plenty of snaps now.
This season is mostly about seeing what the young guys on the roster can do, and especially the holdovers that the previous regime brought in. There are lots of them!
Young, inexpensive guys competing for roster spots that they could fill for several years. Maybe a few starters and the rest developmental depth. I like this direction, and think we will be building a solid foundation for years to come.
Here is the real rub .... Can Wink actually adjust?
He is on record saying he will call the games how he calls the games. Which is part of the reason he was let go. Also that and basically not playing with the game at times and not setting his guys up for success.
With Jackson* and and inexperience CB highly aggressive blizting might not be ideal. Now I hope we see a rebound in Jackson playing more press something he does better at.
*Disclaimer: Jackson has the ability to be a #1 CB IF he puts in the work comittment.
If Wink refuses to have more balance (conventional football wisdom) in his approach it is going to be a long season.
without looking at the books, but it's easy to cut everyone when the owner is scared shitless of losing anymore and likely welcomes a no pressure type season in 2022. Must be nice.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
you think the difference of competing and not competing is James Bradberry???
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
on top of that Schoen and Daboll are only linked to the guys they signed (which was stop gap vets) and there rookie draft class this year.
To suggest Schoen should restructure guys he had no business bringing in the first place to make it harder to move them down the road makes zero sense.
Its always best practice to rip the band aid off now. Its sucks no one wanted to trade for him. But at the end of the day we were probably only getting a day 3 pick anyway and it was most important to free up the cap space.
Cut Ximines soon to clear another $1 million in cap space. Trading/cutting Slayton would free up $2.5 million but I am curious to see how he performs in cap under a new staff. They might as well take him to camp, unless a team offers a pick for him, and see if he can return to his rookie form. If not then just release him at the end of camp.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Aaron Wilson
@AaronWilson_NFL
Texans were among teams the Giants spoke with about trade scenarios for James Bradberry, per league source. However, trade for possible later-round pick never consummated due to wide gap in money on potential long-term deal. Chiefs expected to continue to be a Bradberry suitor
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
Yup. People don't want to accept that we need yet another COMPLETE rebuild after McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge, with Reese and DG at the helm, but we do. That's how bad we are.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
So what if he goes to Washington or Philly? He was a good to very good player for the Giants during his time here and a reliable roster piece. I'm sure the coaches and front office would have loved to keep him and his talent around but they can't do that and actually rebuild the team the way that they envision. Far better to just deal with the pain and move on to the future. He can do what he pleases and I wish him the best wherever he goes.
seems worth every penny to me. He's never hurt and always productive. He's an impact player.
I don't have nearly the same love for Bradberry but I just feel like going from a pretty good corner to a pretty bad corner can sink the season before it even begins. I guess we will find out. Gotta make peace with it I guess.
Moving on...I refuse to punt this season away, damnit. Expect more. We need to dig out of this trench.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
So what if he goes to Washington or Philly? He was a good to very good player for the Giants during his time here and a reliable roster piece. I'm sure the coaches and front office would have loved to keep him and his talent around but they can't do that and actually rebuild the team the way that they envision. Far better to just deal with the pain and move on to the future. He can do what he pleases and I wish him the best wherever he goes.
chiefs or texans seem more likely. Both have 10m+ in effective cap space per wilson tweet i posted above.
the philly/wsh rumors were likely just bradberry's agents trying to leverage nyg.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
Agreed on Williams. Typically in a 3-4 you spend your money at edge in terms of front seven cost allocation. I was never a fan of the deal they gave him. However, it was only three years so at least they aren’t locked in for a long time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
either Andrew Booth or Kyler Gordon right about now...
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
Look no offense djm, but if you are going to put up posts like you do on cap topics and act like a whiny kid who was told by his Mom he can't have a candy bar in the check-out aisle then expect replies like mine.
I don't have to convince you of anything. The last GM left the place a mess and this GM has to make some decisions you may not like to clean it up. If you think he doesn't have to then you come up with the alternative.
We're all ears.
I don't want to read all of this so if this was mentioned sorry
Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
RE: I don't want to read all of this so if this was mentioned sorry
Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
You don't get it. Bradberry wasn't going to be long term here, nor should he have been. His cap number aside, he just isn't a guy you are committing to long term now, while building a roster.
leave it alone dude. I don't have to agree with you and sit here and offer up a 100000 word essay on the intricate and enigmatic details of cap mgmt. Unlike you I don't act like I know every detail. but what I do know is there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you can kick money down the road for the sake of today. Giants chose to NOT do that. I don't necessarily agree. Ok? Thanks.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
leave it alone dude. I don't have to agree with you and sit here and offer up a 100000 word essay on the intricate and enigmatic details of cap mgmt. Unlike you I don't act like I know every detail. but what I do know is there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you can kick money down the road for the sake of today. Giants chose to NOT do that. I don't necessarily agree. Ok? Thanks.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
You want a new GM to start kicking money down the road while he tries to rebuild a 4 win team with no QB, very few core players and more bad contracts on the horizon. For James Bradberry who got lit up last year as our #1 CB and he wasn't even injured.
as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
It’s funny you mention that last point because I just had the same conversation with my brother yesterday. All of those wasted draft assets only to sign two free agents to be your starting corners. Possibly the ultimate lowlight of DG’s tenure.
Baker, Beal, Ballentine, Love, Holmes, Rodarius Williams. Love was converted to safety and is very likely entering his last season as a Giant, and Holmes is likely being replaced by Flott. Jury is out on Williams, but he’s coming off an ACL.
could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
He's not in the team's longterm plans and Bradberry could see that when the new regime began shopping him. The dye was cast, even if they wanted to, and I don't think they did, it was probably off the table at that point. I imagine the delay in his release since the draft was the team exploring creative options to keep Bradberry on a 1 year deal without an extension but that never materialized.
could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Hmm, you continue to argue one point while pushing a separate point as your reasoning.
Bradberry is a solid CB- nothing more. He wasn't worth the money on a rebuilding team and would have been gone in the near future regardless.
Not sure why you seem to think the team screwed up here. In fact, many would say the screw up was extending, redoing etc. his contract already. But, whatever. Minus the draft class this year, I don't worry about any player on this team yet as they have all been part of suck central for years.
could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
Isn't he an UFA right now?
He is, but most teams have already spent their FA money. If he signs a one year deal, with the rising cap next year he’ll likely get much more.
Maybe a silver lining to this trade not going through
Speculative- but if the giants traded Houston Bradberry maybe they dont take Stingley at 3. Houston was the "wild card team" with their pick, and maybe if they had Bradberry, Stingley becomes less of a pressing need and Kayvon doesn't fall to 5 to the Giants. possible silver lining.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
I advocated walking away once they had clearly surpassed any reasonable figure in the $15-16M per range as I recall. Reasons being I wouldn't overvalue a 3-4 DE (at least anymore than I had at 15-16M per), and I also held firm the team wasn't going anywhere in 2021, let alone contending.
That's one basic tenet I hope is gone from NYG, the colossal failures of self-scouting and being honest with themselves as to the state of the roster. They will win again when it's built correctly.
RE: Watch him go to Philly or Washington and become a pro-bowler again
who the fuck in their right mind signs off on last offseason when this scorched earth follow up was looming?
Fucking amazing.
They deluded themselves into believing they were a few players away from being a playoff contender.
It amazes me though that posters here are still defending some of Dave's moves when virtually every move he made was a disaster of one-line narratives.
Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
Oh, and it's widely assumed that JB had offset language in his contract.
You might set a record for things you get wrong in one post.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
that Bradberry was overpaid. I think he was performing to the contract. the structure of the contract was not good but we are cutting a good player who was getting paid a fair value based on his position and other contracts.
It was simply a numbers game with his contract being one of the few left that could get us the cap space needed.
Schoen overplayed his hand and lost. Bradberry should have been released before his guarantee. But he took the gamble and lost.
LW was the only contract left to renegotiate and we may still have to renegotiate his contract. I think Slayton and Gates are in trouble if LW doesnt get done. We are under the cap with picks and the PS but we need in season functional money and slayton as the 4th or 5th guy is making too much. Gates may not be ready so might be an injury settlement.
Ultimately I think they will have to add void years to LW.
who the fuck in their right mind signs off on last offseason when this scorched earth follow up was looming?
Fucking amazing.
They deluded themselves into believing they were a few players away from being a playoff contender.
It amazes me though that posters here are still defending some of Dave's moves when virtually every move he made was a disaster of one-line narratives.
This wasn’t the first time it happened. They did the same thing with Reese at the helm in 2016. That got them the fluke wild card playoff appearance.
Was the process. The fact framework for a deal should have been in place prior to acquiring him in a trade. Hell, that's why we couldn't move Bradberry, most GMs can see past their nose. On top of that, to then compound the mistake of tagging him only to acquire information that would ultimately be baked into his new contract was beyond stupid. If they believed in the talent enough to trade a top 65 pick for him, they should have been prepared to offer him an extension that same offseason. Buy low. He's a conviction transaction, act with conviction.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Hmm, you continue to argue one point while pushing a separate point as your reasoning.
Bradberry is a solid CB- nothing more. He wasn't worth the money on a rebuilding team and would have been gone in the near future regardless.
Not sure why you seem to think the team screwed up here. In fact, many would say the screw up was extending, redoing etc. his contract already. But, whatever. Minus the draft class this year, I don't worry about any player on this team yet as they have all been part of suck central for years.
Essentially I said the Giants might have been better off keeping Bradberry at the expense of future funds. Pretty clearly said that.
Like I said, moving on... I just don't have to like it. At the end of the day I doubt I will be sitting here 2-3 years from now lamenting the loss of Bradberry but it's going to hurt us in 2022.
RE: yes he's a UFA right now but with leaguewide cap space spent
and off a down year. he wanted to get back to UFA next year more than a contract extensions with at least 2 other teams.
There are two other components to this:
1. Right now he is projected to be the best FA CB available in 2023
2. He can shop for a situation that he feels will maximize value/play to his strengths going into 2023.
Was the process. The fact framework for a deal should have been in place prior to acquiring him in a trade. Hell, that's why we couldn't move Bradberry, most GMs can see past their nose. On top of that, to then compound the mistake of tagging him only to acquire information that would ultimately be baked into his new contract was beyond stupid. If they believed in the talent enough to trade a top 65 pick for him, they should have been prepared to offer him an extension that same offseason. Buy low. He's a conviction transaction, act with conviction.
I think Gettleman would have resigned Williams even if it meant 90% of their cap lol. As you noted, most teams work out a long term deal with a player before making a trade like that. Just like the recent Tyreek Hill and AJ Brown trades. Gettleman had too much pride to just let him walk, or better yet, not make the trade in the first place. So glad he is gone.
Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
He was actually right about the player but his process was so broken that you're not even getting value and locking him into a deal that hinders your ability to keep him longterm.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
That’s not what happened. Eric in Li will explain.
Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
Leo’s agent had to know Gettleman would pay him anything because he was praying that Leo would make them competitive and make that terrible trade look somewhat intelligent.
Recall he was already making more than as a Jet so not really
all that interesting. His market was higher, just not what ultimately he was given. Bottom line is LW negotiated a great deal for himself because of the situation he was granted by an awful GM across the table.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
This is an overstatement. Schoen wanted to trade him and couldn't get a deal made. That's more of a reflection of the bad contract he inherited than a fail. Bradberry is a good player and will have plenty of options for this year at a lower salary, but no one wanted to take on that contract at all.
Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
Paul Schwartz wrote the market value was even lower.
Gettleman did a lot of stupid things, but the way he handled the Williams contract was shocking even for him.
It sounds like they had multiple deals in place, but Bradberry didn’t agree to the extension terms with the trade partners.
Bradberry is betting on himself to have a good 2022 at a reduced salary compared to what he would have made with the Giants, and that the solid 2022 play will lead to a nice 2-3 payday with the rising cap in 2023.
Not much Schoen could do about that. As other posters have noted, he’s cleaning up the mess left by DG.
Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
It would be a whole lot easier to rework his deal if he was signed at that level initially too. Hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube and get him on a reasonable extension when he's only 2 years removed from completely resetting the market.
Bradberry had lost speed and quickness in 2021 v 2020 and was routinely troubled by the faster quicker receivers. Given the Giants are rebuilding, his career timeline didn’t match up with the teams.
It’s good for everyone that Bradberry is moving on. Best of luck to him.
Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
Paul Schwartz wrote the market value was even lower.
Gettleman did a lot of stupid things, but the way he handled the Williams contract was shocking even for him.
Yeah, I remember the media reporting $10M per when I heard $12-13M. When the number was up to $16M (which was a guess) you knew DG was in a worse than bad spot.
Bradberry had lost speed and quickness in 2021 v 2020 and was routinely troubled by the faster quicker receivers. Given the Giants are rebuilding, his career timeline didn’t match up with the teams.
It’s good for everyone that Bradberry is moving on. Best of luck to him.
Exactly. If Bradberry was anywhere near the 2021 version, or management projected he would be that guy in 2023 -- the Giants had the tools to retain him.
I never thought we would get anything for Bradbury.
As for LW, I am with JonC, I would not have gone over 15M and even that would have had me chewing on nails.
It just isn't the proper allocation of rost building resources.
And for sure, you don't trade for without a contract agreement in place or at least in principle.
but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation.
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
The Leonard Williams comp is a good reason why a trade didnt happen
If Bradberry thinks he's undervalued going into 2023 no way he signs an extension with the team trading for him.
That leaves the trading team of having to overpay to 'justify' the trade if he has a great 2022 or lose the player in FA and take shit for pissing away draft picks.
Ahh, just heard about the Bradberry release. I am a bit
pissed that he didn't give in with either contract negotiations with those two other teams nor Schoen. His value has to be low but we'll see what he gets.
Just yet another gaping hole in the roster left behind due to the fine work of our perennial GM of the Year candidate Dave Gettleman...
RE: My style isn't to do call outs and name names...
but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation.
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
In comment 15703198 bw in dc said.....:///
I think his two big mistakes were advertising the Giants plan to slash 40m dollars from the cap and not taking into account how Bradberry would play it. He probably didn't understand how ready the fan base was for a true rebuild and didn't need to set those expectations with them by advertising that strategy. He also probably should have gotten an idea on if and what Bradberry was looking for in an extension to see if teams were in the ballpark.
bw with another of his crackerjack nostradamos retro forecasts smh
Aces, you may be right; I just get the feeling he didn't want to stay with this franchise any longer. Completely understandable: sure way to kill your marketability by association with NYG...with his eye on FA asap
I 100% thought they had a deal in place. It never even occurred to me at that point that an NFL executive would not have all the details ironed out before moving on that trade. I took it even further and thought they maybe had some feelers to flip Hill or Tomlinson to get some of that capital back because the acquisition made keeping them impossible. He wasn't even close to thinking that far ahead. It became apparent in the coming days that they didn't.
If he doesn’t return to 2020 form, he’s not a Giant in 2023 at 18M in new cash.
The real error was giving a multi-year deal off a contract year explosion and paying him as if he was capable of consistently being that player when you had no reason to believe he would.
Like, if Daniel Jones has a good year year I'm not throwing 100m at him. Go prove it wasn't a fluke.
but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation.
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
Many, many threads arguing about how the LW deal was being handled. The trade, not having the deal inked, the leverage given, the silly franchise tagging, his comps, and the ultimate elite-level money he got.
Paul Schwartz - 3/16/20 - bold is added by me
Go Terps : 3/17/2021 11:48 pm : link
Quote:
The Giants did not trade for Leonard Williams to let him walk.
That was the thinking back on Oct. 28 when general manager Dave Gettleman made the controversial deal with the Jets and that is the thinking now. The Giants on Monday placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Williams and have every intention of signing him to a long-term deal to become a fixture at defensive tackle.
The deadline to tag players was 11:59 a.m. Monday as the NFL started up business for the 2020 season.
The franchise tag carries a salary-cap hit and salary for Williams of $16.1 million. The Giants do not want Williams to play out the season on that one-year deal. They can significantly lower the cap hit by coming to an agreement with Williams on a long-term deal that likely would be in the range of $10 million to $12 million a year.
There was no way the Giants were going to allow Williams to head into free agency and hit the open market. Not after sending a 2020 third-round draft pick and what will be a 2021 fifth-round pick to the Jets for a player who is still in his prime.
The bold gives a sense of Williams's perceived value on the open market at the time.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
It's cute that you don't know how offset language works.
If only we could figure out how to make sure you didn't know how login language worked, either.
RE: RE: My style isn't to do call outs and name names...
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
RE: RE: RE: My style isn't to do call outs and name names...
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
lol. So if BW's call are always wrong, but in this case he's called out himself, does a negative and a negative make a positive?
RE: RE: RE: My style isn't to do call outs and name names...
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
I'm just sharing what was said - particularly the Schwartz article specifically calling out Williams's market value. You'll note everyone stopped posting after I dug that up.
We've been riding a slow motion train wreck and so many were in denial about it.
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
The timeline and discussions ostensibly went like this...
We acquire LW at the trade deadline in 2019. There is this excitement about LW and how we are going to sign him for $10-12M based on him loving the NY area and he really wants to be a Giant, etc, etc.
A few of us start looking at the market and realize the going rate for DT - like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey, who had recently signed new deals - was probably going to be $17M+. And when you adjust for all of the variables, the franchise tag was very likely going to be $18M+.
Thus, there was NFW that Team LW was going to be so magnanimous and give us a 30-35% hometown discount from that projected FT. They knew the minimum the FT was the baseline minimum and would - rightly - negotiate off of that.
And as the deal played out, LW got a deal that reflected the market and not some asinine hometown discount that would be less than $15M, and maybe as low as $12M...
In other words, he took Gettleman to the cleaners and added another example in the long line of misplays by DG.
Of course he took DG to the cleaners...popular club.
DG at least identified a good player but if he came to a conclusion LW was a must have (3-4 DL, really?) then he needed to have a deal basically locked up as part of the trade or at least parameters of one that worked for big Leonard.
If not, then just bid for his services in free agency the following spring.
And if you lose out because somebody else outbid you in the market, then did you really lose out? Oh and that's a rhetorical for a lot of posters in that year-old thread...
It's so crazy to see the intersection of LW and JB in this thread.
with a rebuilding team and a GM working to balance 2022 roster and fix prior regime mistakes. Now, what to do with KG's contract and when.
If the mantra is " rip the band aide off" then this is it
Next yr it may be KG
2023 cap should be healthy , hopefully one more good drat land a qb.
And we sign a couple solid FA 's
RE: RE: RE: RE: My style isn't to do call outs and name names...
I'm just sharing what was said - particularly the Schwartz article specifically calling out Williams's market value. You'll note everyone stopped posting after I dug that up.
We've been riding a slow motion train wreck and so many were in denial about it.
I'm definitely not directing that at you. I've been aligned with you on Williams from the start. Watching people take victory laps on Leo mugging 80m from the Giants' clueless front office is hysterical.
all of those victory laps and acting like the cap was not going to be an issue. Then LW sitting there as our most expensive player. Exactly what the problem was, not LW just overpaying him and everyone else catches up to you
I think Bradbury may regret his decision to not rework his contract. Just a feeling. I also think Bradberry’s game has fallen off a bit. Just my 2 cents.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
I have come to grips with it
JB was average last yr Play the young guys Build the lines draft well
Hit FA some next yr Works for me not expecting a contender this yr, just better play If we are starting over with qb in 23, we arent contenders till 24
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
The timeline and discussions ostensibly went like this...
We acquire LW at the trade deadline in 2019. There is this excitement about LW and how we are going to sign him for $10-12M based on him loving the NY area and he really wants to be a Giant, etc, etc.
A few of us start looking at the market and realize the going rate for DT - like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey, who had recently signed new deals - was probably going to be $17M+. And when you adjust for all of the variables, the franchise tag was very likely going to be $18M+.
Thus, there was NFW that Team LW was going to be so magnanimous and give us a 30-35% hometown discount from that projected FT. They knew the minimum the FT was the baseline minimum and would - rightly - negotiate off of that.
And as the deal played out, LW got a deal that reflected the market and not some asinine hometown discount that would be less than $15M, and maybe as low as $12M...
In other words, he took Gettleman to the cleaners and added another example in the long line of misplays by DG.
Some of the worst examples of negotiating tactics I've ever seen. Gettleman was like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. The driver just slows down enough for him to keep up. And when he finally stops, the poor kid can't help himself...
If he doesn’t return to 2020 form, he’s not a Giant in 2023 at 18M in new cash.
The real error was giving a multi-year deal off a contract year explosion and paying him as if he was capable of consistently being that player when you had no reason to believe he would.
Like, if Daniel Jones has a good year year I'm not throwing 100m at him. Go prove it wasn't a fluke.
I feel this year we have to start building a winning culture, and our CB's getting smoked all year isn't going to help. We are paper thin at CB in a passing league before injuries.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Well you pretty much got it all wrong, but other than that your opinion is ok with me...
He's always been willing to spend. We just haven't spent wisely. People here refuse to recognize that we are in a full rebuild. Bradberry is in decline already and is nearing 30. He won't be good when this team is ready.
He's always been willing to spend. We just haven't spent wisely. People here refuse to recognize that we are in a full rebuild. Bradberry is in decline already and is nearing 30. He won't be good when this team is ready.
He spends like any NFL owner spends. They aren't spending their money; they're spending yours.
... good luck covering Lamb, McLaurin, Dotson, Devonta and AJ Brown now. Smh. Wish there was a way this could have worked out.
CB is not barren. There are injury concerns with Adoree’ Jackson but when healthy he is a legitimate starting CB. The truth is that Jackson frequently outplayed Bradberry last season.
His first year in NY Bradberry was a true star CB but unfortunately he was unable to replicate his performance and struggled for much of last season.
The Giants have some talented young cornerbacks in Aaron Robinson, Cor’Dale Flott, Darnay Holmes, Rodarius Williams, and Jarren Williams. Plus they added an intriguing UDFA in Zyon Gilbert.
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
DG as GM of the Giants is a case study in everything NOT to do in Sports Management, including Negotiations: Outbidding yourself for someone no one else wants.
Not only did Williams agent take Gettleman to the cleaners but so did the Jets GM. Here you have a rookie GM who knows he’s not going to re-sign Williams to the contract Williams wants. He would have been lucky to get a team to offer a 7th round pick in the trade. Instead, he gets a high 3 from a bad team which turns out to be something like the 75th pick plus either a 4th or a 5th depending on when Williams signed. In the middle of the year, this trade would only have made sense if a a team was deep in the playoff hunt and probably not even though let only a very bad team giving up a premium pick plus more.
The Giants have some talented young cornerbacks in Aaron Robinson, Cor’Dale Flott, Darnay Holmes, Rodarius Williams, and Jarren Williams. Plus they added an intriguing UDFA in Zyon Gilbert.
I'm also curious to see what we have in these young guys, too, especially with a new DC like Wink. Seeing how he and Henderson can develop them is going to be one of the more important stories of 2022.
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
DG as GM of the Giants is a case study in everything NOT to do in Sports Management, including Negotiations: Outbidding yourself for someone no one else wants.
traded this year any time between training camp and the deadline he costs the acquiring team less than $2m against their cap this year (less the closer you get to the deadline).
if he plays halfway decent a contender might even give up a day 2 pick. they will still eat some dead money but save $12m in 2023.
the only reason they wouldn't trade him is if they like him enough to extend him longer term.
I'm just glad it's over and they can finally move on.
Roll with the young guys, maybe sign a vet for the minimum for a year if one shakes loose and they have the cash, I really don't care. For me, this year is all about erasing past mistakes and beginning the process of setting the team up for a successful future.
Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
RE: Everyone saw this move coming down Main Street
Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
Setting aside the rookies, I believe Schoen subtracted more from the 2023 cap than he added.
It’s crystal clear cap resources in 2023 is his goal.
RE: Everyone saw this move coming down Main Street
So is Schoen going to regret not drafting a CB in round 2? And if Wan Dale doesn't produce, its going to get ugly.
Schoen went into the draft knowing he was going to have a hole at CB, so I doubt it. There's no such thing as getting ugly this year. This year is for getting the financial house in order and seeing what he has with the players he brought on board or kept and I think most Giants fans know it.
either Andrew Booth or Kyler Gordon right about now...
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
Definitely a few head scratchers during the draft that I'd label as reaches, but at least they nailed the first round and hit some needs with prospects better on paper than the previous options.
Dan Duggan
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
with a rebuilding team and a GM working to balance 2022 roster and fix prior regime mistakes. Now, what to do with KG's contract and when.
2024 for KG.
If he doesn't produce significantly I can see them cutting him after 2022... $6.8 million in cap savings even though there'd be over $14 million dead money.
So is Schoen going to regret not drafting a CB in round 2? And if Wan Dale doesn't produce, its going to get ugly.
Schoen went into the draft knowing he was going to have a hole at CB, so I doubt it. There's no such thing as getting ugly this year. This year is for getting the financial house in order and seeing what he has with the players he brought on board or kept and I think most Giants fans know it.
Most rookie CB’s struggle heavily in year one anyways so either way you’re likely to have a liability at cb2 this year.
either Andrew Booth or Kyler Gordon right about now...
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
Definitely a few head scratchers during the draft that I'd label as reaches, but at least they nailed the first round and hit some needs with prospects better on paper than the previous options.
They wanted McCreary but Tennessee took him at #35. They could have had either Gordon or Boothe at #38, but decided to trade down again anyway. The fact that they were willing to risk losing both for a fourth round pick shows that neither was likely rated that highly on their board. They also didn't take Flott until #81, not #67. So it sounds like their three top corners were Stingley, Gardner, and McCreary, with a big drop off after those players. They also did all this knowing that one way or another Bradberry would be gone. Maybe they like Aaron Robinson more than we know.
with so many holes it was literally impossible to address every single need, even if the cap wasn't so poor. They have a lot of young players in the secondary to evaluate. I would assume they'll focus on the back-end of the defense and offense skill positions more-so next offseason.
with so many holes it was literally impossible to address every single need, even if the cap wasn't so poor. They have a lot of young players in the secondary to evaluate. I would assume they'll focus on the back-end of the defense and offense skill positions more-so next offseason.
Which is why I don't understand some people wringing their hands over Bradbury.
He was never staying beyond this year, and even with him there are so many holes that this team was not going to challenge for anything. Does it make a difference if the team is 7 - 10 with Bradbury and 5 - 12 without? And I doubt that Bradbury would make even that much of a difference. It is far better to take the medicine now and free up space for the future when it will matter who the team keeps.
Also keep in mind, the Giants do not have as much space as it appears in 2023. They only have 30 players under contract right now... It is likely that about half of them will get cut before the 2023 year starts. The team needs to fill out more than 2/3 of the roster and as of now they only have $81M to do it... LW is scheduled to be a $26M hit, KG is a $21.4M hit and AJ is a $19.5M hit. Expect more blood letting next year!
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@DDuggan21
The Giants are releasing CB James Bradberry after failing to find a trade partner, per source. The move will create $10.1M in cap savings while leaving $11.7M in dead money.
(Savings will be $11.5M with $10.4M dead this year and $1.4M dead in 2023 if they make it a June 1 cut)
I wish JB well..
@Giants
·
1m
We have released CB James Bradberry
Nah, I’d like to see him try and cover Toney or Robinson.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
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@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
NYG needs to know what they have in those 2 before next offseason
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
His play wasnt a bad fit, his contract was
NYG needs to know what they have in those 2 before next offseason
Or they sign one of the several veteran name brand corners available for cheap
We definitely took a hit to the talent level on the team today.
I wish him the best unless he goes to the Eagles or any other NFC East team.
And if he goes to Philly?
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@JordanRaanan
Releasing James Bradberry saves $10.1M vs. salary cap. He was set to count $21.9M.
It was a $$$ move. Giants needed to find cap space to operate this season (sign rookies, make in-season moves, etc.) Currently less than $7M under cap.
Now leaves them expectedly thin at CB.
Didn't we just use a third round pick on a CB?
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I hope he goes somewhere and wins.
And if he goes to Philly?
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
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Now, what to do with KG's contract and when.
Unless someone is interested in trading for him, there's nothing to do but wait and see what kind of year he has.
Yep, that's what I'm alluding to because his contract is uglier than JB's.
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In comment 15703085 Dnew15 said:
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I hope he goes somewhere and wins.
And if he goes to Philly?
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
I just want to be clear that I was not focusing on the hate part. It was wishing him success even if he goes to Philly. I have no idea if he will but they'll definitely be players for him.
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concerns about this unit again? Does the DB unit become Shoen's saga? We totally ignored it knowing we would have to release our CB1.
Didn't we just use a third round pick on a CB?
He's going to start week 1?
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In comment 15703111 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 15703085 Dnew15 said:
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I hope he goes somewhere and wins.
And if he goes to Philly?
Honestly, if he goes to Philly, I am going to be mad, rationally or not, that we did not figure out a way to get him out of our conference. Now the Eagles will have Slay and Bradbury. that isn't bad.
I just want to be clear that I was not focusing on the hate part. It was wishing him success even if he goes to Philly. I have no idea if he will but they'll definitely be players for him.
I wish him no success in philly
See y’a JBIV.
It's kind of a weird situation.
kudos to schoen for sticking to his guns. annoying 1 of the trades couldn't have worked out to at least get another pick and maybe even another CB in the door.
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Best option, exponentially better than investing more money in an older player who is a bad fit.
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
His play wasnt a bad fit, his contract was
Bradberry surrendered the most touch downs and third most yards of any defender in the NFL last year. And particularly struggled in man coverage.
Seems opposite of Martendale is aiming for, unless of course being terrible is the goal. Who knows, right?
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
Maybe you should post dollar bills, because that's all this comes down to. Mara and money. Bradberry can play.
Should be fun to see this season ruined by no corner back play. It's usually the OL or the passrush or the QB, might be fun to see some new form of suck.
Get ready for wide open WRs.
Wut? Your comment is replete with errors. Back to major concerns? They never left, given the JB contract black hole.
JS 'totally ignored' CBs knowing he'd have to release CB1? He said he had deals in place: JB camp would not budge on contract demands, per most info.
Per Asshat rico, Giants wanted Sauce at #5 and McCreary in 3rd or 4th? JS drafted a lesser know CB at 3b (I think).
Follow the team much?
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
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In comment 15703096 christian said:
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Best option, exponentially better than investing more money in an older player who is a bad fit.
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
His play wasnt a bad fit, his contract was
Bradberry surrendered the most touch downs and third most yards of any defender in the NFL last year. And particularly struggled in man coverage.
Seems opposite of Martendale is aiming for, unless of course being terrible is the goal. Who knows, right?
On a team with a bottom 3 pass rush.
These things are connected and people continue to talk on defensive backs as if it's not part of the conversation.
This is Schoen cleaning up someone else's mess, and he has to make the 2022 team worse on the field to do it.
Didn't play particularly well last year
They just restructured him
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
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I hope he goes somewhere and wins.
And if he goes to Philly?
Then fuck him.
He's dead to me.
When I said anywhere...I meant anywhere but Philly :)
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@ZackBlatt
The #Giants should be at around $16.3M in cap space after this. Need around $12.8M to sign rookie class.
Will need more space for in-season moves/practice squad and to fill out the depth chart.
Likely aren’t done clearing space, tho this is probably the last major subtraction.
I'm glad Schoen took his medicine and didn't kick the can down the road.
He made the Pro Bowl once in six seasons.
I'd wager he never does again.
And he doesn't play special teams either.
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In comment 15703096 christian said:
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Best option, exponentially better than investing more money in an older player who is a bad fit.
The Giants dodged the next version of Logan Ryan.
Good luck on the Raiders or Commanders, James. I like him, in the right system he can be a productive player.
His play wasnt a bad fit, his contract was
Bradberry surrendered the most touch downs and third most yards of any defender in the NFL last year. And particularly struggled in man coverage.
Seems opposite of Martendale is aiming for, unless of course being terrible is the goal. Who knows, right?
And Bradberry was a pro bowler the year before that. And they were playing a ton of off coverage last season, and they lost Martinez so they couldnt stop the run
Bradberry fit, the contract didnt
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@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
Nothing in return. Bad contract, no pick, no compensatory pick, and now a hole in the secondary to plug just to sign our draft picks.
The Dave Gettleman stench will continue on for some time.
Seems opposite of Martendale is aiming for, unless of course being terrible is the goal. Who knows, right?
On a team with a bottom 3 pass rush.
These things are connected and people continue to talk on defensive backs as if it's not part of the conversation.
Oh I agree, these things are inextricably connected.
Bradberry excelled in what a lot fans bemoaned was soft zone, on a Giants team that had a top 10 pass rush, in 2020.
The Giants pass rush will be a work-in-progress, and the new DC has a very different philosophy on pass coverage.
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Paul Schwartz
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@NYPost_Schwartz
Replying to @NYPost_Schwartz
GM Joe Schoen tried for months to trade Bradberry. Had a couple of deals worked out - contingent on the new team redoing Bradberry's contract. That could not be worked out, thus no deal. And Giants lose their best cornerback for nothing in return.
Nothing in return. Bad contract, no pick, no compensatory pick, and now a hole in the secondary to plug just to sign our draft picks.
The Dave Gettleman stench will continue on for some time.
Yep, this is how the collateral damage continues to hang around.
Wink expects his CBs to come up in run support and tackle, not a strong suit of JB. Not so concerned about the fit questions, it's a financial decision.
This is Schoen cleaning up someone else's mess, and he has to make the 2022 team worse on the field to do it.
Im not sure im understanding here (and this is not directed at you)...are people under the impression, Bradberry or no Bradberry, that the Giants are going to have a competitive team this year? The overriding sentiment ive seen has been that we continue to have one of the worst rosters in the NFL, and thats with or without Bradberry. If this is true, then what are we melting down about losing Bradberry for? Again, if the roster thing is true, well, heres the news...yeah, there are gonna be a LOT of open WR's. Just like last year. And the year before that. And ....you get the picture.
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
He's a good football player who is going to be missed, even in a down year for him. Sucks but it is what it is.
Regardless, the inevitable has occurred.
It would be smart now to find a buyer/partner for Barkley to open up another $8M in cap space for the chance to buy some cheap cuts as teams start to make tough roster choices.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
It has to be before it gets better. Sucks, but there is no other way to REBUILD the team. No more Re-tooling half-measures.
It's been bad for so long. What's one more season with a new regime to bring hope?
This is Schoen cleaning up someone else's mess, and he has to make the 2022 team worse on the field to do it.
I agree with you (dear god how can that be- lol) and honestly have no attachment to Bradberry or almost anyone currently on the roster. We have been inept for the last 5 years, now is the time to make some changes and people need to go.
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
I get your anger. We are in this position because Gettleman took a blowtorch to the franchise for 4 seasons. It's just not fixable in 6 months.
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
I wish Schoen had cut or traded a lot more people than he did. There's no baby in the bathwater he inherited.
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
They restructured this deal twice I think in 2021 to help pay for other awful decisions.
We seem to raise these questions every year,and the results have been pretty one sided.
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
I don't really fault him that much, maybe it's the honeymoon period. I think most speculated that Bradberry would have a stronger market and it's becoming apparent that players are a little bit better at understanding their leverage than they have in the past.
I think his two big mistakes were advertising the Giants plan to slash 40m dollars from the cap and not taking into account how Bradberry would play it. He probably didn't understand how ready the fan base was for a true rebuild and didn't need to set those expectations with them by advertising that strategy. He also probably should have gotten an idea on if and what Bradberry was looking for in an extension to see if teams were in the ballpark.
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
It's not that he spent all the money, he mis-spent it.
The cost of mistake contracts is you F yourself into situations where you may have to cut guys you don't want to to cut because you blew it with Solder and Golladay and other dead money.
I can see the argument for wanting to keep Bradberry, but he also has to want to re-work his deal and he didn't.
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Which ironically is why he's cut. The mistake they made in the deal was the 3 year structure really.
They restructured this deal twice I think in 2021 to help pay for other awful decisions.
Yup, that's ultimately why he was cut. I think if they gave him a 4 year deal at the outset instead of 3, Schoen would have been more able to move him too.
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no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Fucking amazing.
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In comment 15703192 djm said:
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
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If they make it a post June 1st cut, they can't use the $ until after that. So, don't expect all draft picks to be signed until after June 1.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
OK. Thanks for the info.
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In comment 15703213 djm said:
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no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
haven't bought a jersey since 2005, Eli.
I'll get over it. I just don't have to like it. Was quietly hoping this D would be good this season. You only notice the corners when they are either really great or really bad. I hope we aren't really bad in 2022 because I'd like to see this team flirt with a winning record.
Fucking amazing.
It's another symptom in a failed collection of football ops individuals, unfortunately it begins with the top dude.
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AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Not only that, some posters were convinced Schoen should take his time and trade him after the draft to negotiate a better pick with desperate teams. There was no hurry to take less before the Draft since the cap room wasn't needed yet was the logic used I recall.
That sure went over well.
This season is mostly about seeing what the young guys on the roster can do, and especially the holdovers that the previous regime brought in. There are lots of them!
Young, inexpensive guys competing for roster spots that they could fill for several years. Maybe a few starters and the rest developmental depth. I like this direction, and think we will be building a solid foundation for years to come.
With Jackson* and and inexperience CB highly aggressive blizting might not be ideal. Now I hope we see a rebound in Jackson playing more press something he does better at.
*Disclaimer: Jackson has the ability to be a #1 CB IF he puts in the work comittment.
If Wink refuses to have more balance (conventional football wisdom) in his approach it is going to be a long season.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
you think the difference of competing and not competing is James Bradberry???
When you start over, you start over.
Fucking amazing.
So now we want John Mara signing off on deals and involving himself more into football operations?
Which is it guys?
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In comment 15703218 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703192 djm said:
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
When you start over, you start over.
on top of that Schoen and Daboll are only linked to the guys they signed (which was stop gap vets) and there rookie draft class this year.
To suggest Schoen should restructure guys he had no business bringing in the first place to make it harder to move them down the road makes zero sense.
Its always best practice to rip the band aid off now. Its sucks no one wanted to trade for him. But at the end of the day we were probably only getting a day 3 pick anyway and it was most important to free up the cap space.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
@AaronWilson_NFL
Texans were among teams the Giants spoke with about trade scenarios for James Bradberry, per league source. However, trade for possible later-round pick never consummated due to wide gap in money on potential long-term deal. Chiefs expected to continue to be a Bradberry suitor
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@ZackBlatt
The #Giants should be at around $16.3M in cap space after this. Need around $12.8M to sign rookie class.
Will need more space for in-season moves/practice squad and to fill out the depth chart.
Likely aren’t done clearing space, tho this is probably the last major subtraction.
I wonder if Slayton is next. Not now, but maybe at the end of camp if he doesn't "wow" the coaches. Cutting him saves $2.5M.
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In comment 15703232 djm said:
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In comment 15703218 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703192 djm said:
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
This is a standard release, per source.
When you start over, you start over.
Yup. People don't want to accept that we need yet another COMPLETE rebuild after McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge, with Reese and DG at the helm, but we do. That's how bad we are.
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
I don't have nearly the same love for Bradberry but I just feel like going from a pretty good corner to a pretty bad corner can sink the season before it even begins. I guess we will find out. Gotta make peace with it I guess.
Moving on...I refuse to punt this season away, damnit. Expect more. We need to dig out of this trench.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
chiefs or texans seem more likely. Both have 10m+ in effective cap space per wilson tweet i posted above.
the philly/wsh rumors were likely just bradberry's agents trying to leverage nyg.
✔
@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
This is a standard release, per source.
makes sense they want to start getting there rookies in the building asap. 1 MM isn't going to make a major difference being a post june 1 date.
But this month is vital to get the rookies up to speed.
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In comment 15703114 BigBlueJ said:
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concerns about this unit again? Does the DB unit become Shoen's saga? We totally ignored it knowing we would have to release our CB1.
Didn't we just use a third round pick on a CB?
He's going to start week 1?
Plus he’s a slot corner, just like Holmes. We’re very thin on the outside.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
You forgot Tate lol.
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In comment 15703243 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703232 djm said:
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In comment 15703218 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703192 djm said:
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
Agreed on Williams. Typically in a 3-4 you spend your money at edge in terms of front seven cost allocation. I was never a fan of the deal they gave him. However, it was only three years so at least they aren’t locked in for a long time.
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In comment 15703286 JonC said:
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
You forgot Tate lol.
You're right. And Jackson is another. There were so many, I just couldn't remember them all.
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
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In comment 15703265 djm said:
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In comment 15703243 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703232 djm said:
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In comment 15703218 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703192 djm said:
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In comment 15703164 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703151 djm said:
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In comment 15703147 mphbullet36 said:
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
Look no offense djm, but if you are going to put up posts like you do on cap topics and act like a whiny kid who was told by his Mom he can't have a candy bar in the check-out aisle then expect replies like mine.
I don't have to convince you of anything. The last GM left the place a mess and this GM has to make some decisions you may not like to clean it up. If you think he doesn't have to then you come up with the alternative.
We're all ears.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
+1. You pay that to an explosive edge in a 3-4, not a DE.
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
You don't get it. Bradberry wasn't going to be long term here, nor should he have been. His cap number aside, he just isn't a guy you are committing to long term now, while building a roster.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
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In comment 15703286 JonC said:
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
Yippee.
Enjoy.
There's a distinction between the two.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
You want a new GM to start kicking money down the road while he tries to rebuild a 4 win team with no QB, very few core players and more bad contracts on the horizon. For James Bradberry who got lit up last year as our #1 CB and he wasn't even injured.
You have to do better than this.
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as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
It’s funny you mention that last point because I just had the same conversation with my brother yesterday. All of those wasted draft assets only to sign two free agents to be your starting corners. Possibly the ultimate lowlight of DG’s tenure.
Baker, Beal, Ballentine, Love, Holmes, Rodarius Williams. Love was converted to safety and is very likely entering his last season as a Giant, and Holmes is likely being replaced by Flott. Jury is out on Williams, but he’s coming off an ACL.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
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could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
Isn't he an UFA right now?
There's a distinction between the two.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Hmm, you continue to argue one point while pushing a separate point as your reasoning.
Bradberry is a solid CB- nothing more. He wasn't worth the money on a rebuilding team and would have been gone in the near future regardless.
Not sure why you seem to think the team screwed up here. In fact, many would say the screw up was extending, redoing etc. his contract already. But, whatever. Minus the draft class this year, I don't worry about any player on this team yet as they have all been part of suck central for years.
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In comment 15703377 David B. said:
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could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
Bradberry wants to get paid. It's really simple.
Houston tried to trade for him but couldn't get him to agree to an extension.
He wants to play a 1 year deal this year and hit UFA next year.
Isn't he an UFA right now?
He is, but most teams have already spent their FA money. If he signs a one year deal, with the rising cap next year he’ll likely get much more.
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In comment 15703313 chick310 said:
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In comment 15703286 JonC said:
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
I advocated walking away once they had clearly surpassed any reasonable figure in the $15-16M per range as I recall. Reasons being I wouldn't overvalue a 3-4 DE (at least anymore than I had at 15-16M per), and I also held firm the team wasn't going anywhere in 2021, let alone contending.
That's one basic tenet I hope is gone from NYG, the colossal failures of self-scouting and being honest with themselves as to the state of the roster. They will win again when it's built correctly.
Nobody goes to Washington and becomes a pro bowl player.
Fucking amazing.
It amazes me though that posters here are still defending some of Dave's moves when virtually every move he made was a disaster of one-line narratives.
Yippee.
Enjoy.
Said another way:
We can sign our DRAFT CLASS!
That wasn't possible before today.
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Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
Oh, and it's widely assumed that JB had offset language in his contract.
You might set a record for things you get wrong in one post.
When you start over, you start over.
But yet, here we are.
It was simply a numbers game with his contract being one of the few left that could get us the cap space needed.
Schoen overplayed his hand and lost. Bradberry should have been released before his guarantee. But he took the gamble and lost.
LW was the only contract left to renegotiate and we may still have to renegotiate his contract. I think Slayton and Gates are in trouble if LW doesnt get done. We are under the cap with picks and the PS but we need in season functional money and slayton as the 4th or 5th guy is making too much. Gates may not be ready so might be an injury settlement.
Ultimately I think they will have to add void years to LW.
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who the fuck in their right mind signs off on last offseason when this scorched earth follow up was looming?
Fucking amazing.
They deluded themselves into believing they were a few players away from being a playoff contender.
It amazes me though that posters here are still defending some of Dave's moves when virtually every move he made was a disaster of one-line narratives.
This wasn’t the first time it happened. They did the same thing with Reese at the helm in 2016. That got them the fluke wild card playoff appearance.
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I do get it. I don't agree.
There's a distinction between the two.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Hmm, you continue to argue one point while pushing a separate point as your reasoning.
Bradberry is a solid CB- nothing more. He wasn't worth the money on a rebuilding team and would have been gone in the near future regardless.
Not sure why you seem to think the team screwed up here. In fact, many would say the screw up was extending, redoing etc. his contract already. But, whatever. Minus the draft class this year, I don't worry about any player on this team yet as they have all been part of suck central for years.
Essentially I said the Giants might have been better off keeping Bradberry at the expense of future funds. Pretty clearly said that.
Like I said, moving on... I just don't have to like it. At the end of the day I doubt I will be sitting here 2-3 years from now lamenting the loss of Bradberry but it's going to hurt us in 2022.
There are two other components to this:
1. Right now he is projected to be the best FA CB available in 2023
2. He can shop for a situation that he feels will maximize value/play to his strengths going into 2023.
I think Gettleman would have resigned Williams even if it meant 90% of their cap lol. As you noted, most teams work out a long term deal with a player before making a trade like that. Just like the recent Tyreek Hill and AJ Brown trades. Gettleman had too much pride to just let him walk, or better yet, not make the trade in the first place. So glad he is gone.
That’s not what happened. Eric in Li will explain.
Leo’s agent had to know Gettleman would pay him anything because he was praying that Leo would make them competitive and make that terrible trade look somewhat intelligent.
LW is tomorrow's problem.
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thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
This is an overstatement. Schoen wanted to trade him and couldn't get a deal made. That's more of a reflection of the bad contract he inherited than a fail. Bradberry is a good player and will have plenty of options for this year at a lower salary, but no one wanted to take on that contract at all.
Paul Schwartz wrote the market value was even lower.
Gettleman did a lot of stupid things, but the way he handled the Williams contract was shocking even for him.
Bradberry is betting on himself to have a good 2022 at a reduced salary compared to what he would have made with the Giants, and that the solid 2022 play will lead to a nice 2-3 payday with the rising cap in 2023.
Not much Schoen could do about that. As other posters have noted, he’s cleaning up the mess left by DG.
Maybe some of the kids step up in 22.
It's Bradberry, not Revis. Let's establish an identity in 22, run the ball stop the run and generate a pass-rush and kick ass in 23.
It would be a whole lot easier to rework his deal if he was signed at that level initially too. Hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube and get him on a reasonable extension when he's only 2 years removed from completely resetting the market.
It’s good for everyone that Bradberry is moving on. Best of luck to him.
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Funny thing at the time was the back channels were saying $12-13M per was the expected agreement ballpark. We all know how it ended. So someone(s) either fibbed about the comp point shortly after the trade, or were just clueless as LW's camp took them to the shed.
Paul Schwartz wrote the market value was even lower.
Gettleman did a lot of stupid things, but the way he handled the Williams contract was shocking even for him.
Yeah, I remember the media reporting $10M per when I heard $12-13M. When the number was up to $16M (which was a guess) you knew DG was in a worse than bad spot.
If he doesn’t return to 2020 form, he’s not a Giant in 2023 at 18M in new cash.
It’s good for everyone that Bradberry is moving on. Best of luck to him.
Exactly. If Bradberry was anywhere near the 2021 version, or management projected he would be that guy in 2023 -- the Giants had the tools to retain him.
As for LW, I am with JonC, I would not have gone over 15M and even that would have had me chewing on nails.
It just isn't the proper allocation of rost building resources.
And for sure, you don't trade for without a contract agreement in place or at least in principle.
It is a subtle difference.
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
That leaves the trading team of having to overpay to 'justify' the trade if he has a great 2022 or lose the player in FA and take shit for pissing away draft picks.
Just yet another gaping hole in the roster left behind due to the fine work of our perennial GM of the Year candidate Dave Gettleman...
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
Here you go.
Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
I think his two big mistakes were advertising the Giants plan to slash 40m dollars from the cap and not taking into account how Bradberry would play it. He probably didn't understand how ready the fan base was for a true rebuild and didn't need to set those expectations with them by advertising that strategy. He also probably should have gotten an idea on if and what Bradberry was looking for in an extension to see if teams were in the ballpark.
bw with another of his crackerjack nostradamos retro forecasts smh
Aces, you may be right; I just get the feeling he didn't want to stay with this franchise any longer. Completely understandable: sure way to kill your marketability by association with NYG...with his eye on FA asap
If he doesn’t return to 2020 form, he’s not a Giant in 2023 at 18M in new cash.
The real error was giving a multi-year deal off a contract year explosion and paying him as if he was capable of consistently being that player when you had no reason to believe he would.
Like, if Daniel Jones has a good year year I'm not throwing 100m at him. Go prove it wasn't a fluke.
Still wish they had taken a CB instead of Robinson but that’s water under the bridge
We have some young CBS. Time for them to step up
I look back fondly at those times and the manta being pedaled that Gettleman had a gentleman's agreement in place and a hometown discount was forthcoming.
And those doing the pedaling were so visceral when a few of is countered that Team LW was in prime position to roll Gettleman and get a top-market deal.
Many, many threads arguing about how the LW deal was being handled. The trade, not having the deal inked, the leverage given, the silly franchise tagging, his comps, and the ultimate elite-level money he got.
How not to be a GM (nor a foolish fan) 101..
Go Terps : 3/17/2021 11:48 pm : link
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The Giants did not trade for Leonard Williams to let him walk.
That was the thinking back on Oct. 28 when general manager Dave Gettleman made the controversial deal with the Jets and that is the thinking now. The Giants on Monday placed the non-exclusive franchise tag on Williams and have every intention of signing him to a long-term deal to become a fixture at defensive tackle.
The deadline to tag players was 11:59 a.m. Monday as the NFL started up business for the 2020 season.
The franchise tag carries a salary-cap hit and salary for Williams of $16.1 million. The Giants do not want Williams to play out the season on that one-year deal. They can significantly lower the cap hit by coming to an agreement with Williams on a long-term deal that likely would be in the range of $10 million to $12 million a year.
There was no way the Giants were going to allow Williams to head into free agency and hit the open market. Not after sending a 2020 third-round draft pick and what will be a 2021 fifth-round pick to the Jets for a player who is still in his prime.
The bold gives a sense of Williams's perceived value on the open market at the time.
Link - ( New Window )
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thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
no one also seems to want to come to grips with the fact that Schoen's cash strapped team pissed away 2 million on a roster bonus to keep him around for another month or so while he tried and failed to do something, anything with him. This is a fail anyway you cut it. Schoen's first real fuck up.
It's cute that you don't know how offset language works.
If only we could figure out how to make sure you didn't know how login language worked, either.
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
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In comment 15703501 bw in dc said:
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
lol. So if BW's call are always wrong, but in this case he's called out himself, does a negative and a negative make a positive?
Quote:
In comment 15703501 bw in dc said:
Quote: but the LW acquisition revealed quite a lot about some high profile BBI regulars and their complete lack of understanding of the market and compensation./////
Here you go. Leonard Williams signed - 3/16/21 - ( New Window )
That thread has a lot of ouches.
And those 'high profile BBI regulars' included that certain bw person, before he started doing his own back pedaling
Huh?
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
I'm just sharing what was said - particularly the Schwartz article specifically calling out Williams's market value. You'll note everyone stopped posting after I dug that up.
We've been riding a slow motion train wreck and so many were in denial about it.
So, it's a good thing...right?
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This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
The timeline and discussions ostensibly went like this...
We acquire LW at the trade deadline in 2019. There is this excitement about LW and how we are going to sign him for $10-12M based on him loving the NY area and he really wants to be a Giant, etc, etc.
A few of us start looking at the market and realize the going rate for DT - like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey, who had recently signed new deals - was probably going to be $17M+. And when you adjust for all of the variables, the franchise tag was very likely going to be $18M+.
Thus, there was NFW that Team LW was going to be so magnanimous and give us a 30-35% hometown discount from that projected FT. They knew the minimum the FT was the baseline minimum and would - rightly - negotiate off of that.
And as the deal played out, LW got a deal that reflected the market and not some asinine hometown discount that would be less than $15M, and maybe as low as $12M...
In other words, he took Gettleman to the cleaners and added another example in the long line of misplays by DG.
If not, then just bid for his services in free agency the following spring.
And if you lose out because somebody else outbid you in the market, then did you really lose out? Oh and that's a rhetorical for a lot of posters in that year-old thread...
Remind me how the extension terms went when DG traded for LW?
If the mantra is " rip the band aide off" then this is it
Next yr it may be KG
2023 cap should be healthy , hopefully one more good drat land a qb.
And we sign a couple solid FA 's
Sounds about right (:
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On smelling your own brand.
I'm just sharing what was said - particularly the Schwartz article specifically calling out Williams's market value. You'll note everyone stopped posting after I dug that up.
We've been riding a slow motion train wreck and so many were in denial about it.
I'm definitely not directing that at you. I've been aligned with you on Williams from the start. Watching people take victory laps on Leo mugging 80m from the Giants' clueless front office is hysterical.
When you start over, you start over.
I have come to grips with it
JB was average last yr Play the young guys Build the lines draft well
Hit FA some next yr Works for me not expecting a contender this yr, just better play If we are starting over with qb in 23, we arent contenders till 24
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Quote:
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
The timeline and discussions ostensibly went like this...
We acquire LW at the trade deadline in 2019. There is this excitement about LW and how we are going to sign him for $10-12M based on him loving the NY area and he really wants to be a Giant, etc, etc.
A few of us start looking at the market and realize the going rate for DT - like Grady Jarrett and Jurrell Casey, who had recently signed new deals - was probably going to be $17M+. And when you adjust for all of the variables, the franchise tag was very likely going to be $18M+.
Thus, there was NFW that Team LW was going to be so magnanimous and give us a 30-35% hometown discount from that projected FT. They knew the minimum the FT was the baseline minimum and would - rightly - negotiate off of that.
And as the deal played out, LW got a deal that reflected the market and not some asinine hometown discount that would be less than $15M, and maybe as low as $12M...
In other words, he took Gettleman to the cleaners and added another example in the long line of misplays by DG.
Some of the worst examples of negotiating tactics I've ever seen. Gettleman was like a fat kid chasing the ice cream truck. The driver just slows down enough for him to keep up. And when he finally stops, the poor kid can't help himself...
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2020 LW was a 21M/YR player, 2021 was not.
If he doesn’t return to 2020 form, he’s not a Giant in 2023 at 18M in new cash.
The real error was giving a multi-year deal off a contract year explosion and paying him as if he was capable of consistently being that player when you had no reason to believe he would.
Like, if Daniel Jones has a good year year I'm not throwing 100m at him. Go prove it wasn't a fluke.
If it's truly up to Schoen, he won't.
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Well you pretty much got it all wrong, but other than that your opinion is ok with me...
He spends like any NFL owner spends. They aren't spending their money; they're spending yours.
CB is not barren. There are injury concerns with Adoree’ Jackson but when healthy he is a legitimate starting CB. The truth is that Jackson frequently outplayed Bradberry last season.
His first year in NY Bradberry was a true star CB but unfortunately he was unable to replicate his performance and struggled for much of last season.
The Giants have some talented young cornerbacks in Aaron Robinson, Cor’Dale Flott, Darnay Holmes, Rodarius Williams, and Jarren Williams. Plus they added an intriguing UDFA in Zyon Gilbert.
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This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
DG as GM of the Giants is a case study in everything NOT to do in Sports Management, including Negotiations: Outbidding yourself for someone no one else wants.
The Giants have some talented young cornerbacks in Aaron Robinson, Cor’Dale Flott, Darnay Holmes, Rodarius Williams, and Jarren Williams. Plus they added an intriguing UDFA in Zyon Gilbert.
I'm also curious to see what we have in these young guys, too, especially with a new DC like Wink. Seeing how he and Henderson can develop them is going to be one of the more important stories of 2022.
Quote:
Quote:
This transaction with Williams from start to finish
Jimmy Googs : 3/16/2021 5:02 pm : link
needs to be a case study in a Sports Management class.
And the Giants front office should attend and listen up...
DG as GM of the Giants is a case study in everything NOT to do in Sports Management, including Negotiations: Outbidding yourself for someone no one else wants.
Did I leave that to a different interpretation?
I think his plan is to tank 2022 but can't say so to the public/media.
This team isn’t remotely close to competing. Can’t fill all of the holes in one draft.
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So is Schoen going to regret not drafting a CB in round 2? And if Wan Dale doesn't produce, its going to get ugly.
I think his plan is to tank 2022 but can't say so to the public/media.
Agreed.
The Giants cut half as many veterans today, as they signed to multi year deals this offseason.
either all the guys they retained sink or swim. both outcomes have pluses and minuses.
every guy that swims brings back a little more future value, or makes it easier to dump them off next year's cap.
if they all sink there's less maneuvering necessary to grab their QB next year.
i think they are rolling the dice with house money before deciding to raise the stakes with all their own chips in the pot.
You think Bradberry's contract was bad? Check out Jackson's.
Next year's situation with Jackson will be nearly identical to Bradberry this year.
$19.5 million cap # in 2023, 9 million savings if cut, but $10.5 million dead money.
My lord Gettleman was fucking awful.
OTC - Adoree Jackson - ( New Window )
if he plays halfway decent a contender might even give up a day 2 pick. they will still eat some dead money but save $12m in 2023.
the only reason they wouldn't trade him is if they like him enough to extend him longer term.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
This season is for evaluation not competition.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
Setting aside the rookies, I believe Schoen subtracted more from the 2023 cap than he added.
It’s crystal clear cap resources in 2023 is his goal.
Schoen went into the draft knowing he was going to have a hole at CB, so I doubt it. There's no such thing as getting ugly this year. This year is for getting the financial house in order and seeing what he has with the players he brought on board or kept and I think most Giants fans know it.
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
Definitely a few head scratchers during the draft that I'd label as reaches, but at least they nailed the first round and hit some needs with prospects better on paper than the previous options.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
Also ICYMI, told this is a standard release, not a June 1. Interesting decision considering a case can be made that $1.4M is more valuable now than next year, but Schoen is committed to not pushing cap charges to future years.
Happy to hear it.
You think Bradberry's contract was bad? Check out Jackson's.
Next year's situation with Jackson will be nearly identical to Bradberry this year.
$19.5 million cap # in 2023, 9 million savings if cut, but $10.5 million dead money.
My lord Gettleman was fucking awful.
OTC - Adoree Jackson - ( New Window )
I would blame that more on Judge, as that signing had his fingerprints all over it.
2024 for KG.
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with a rebuilding team and a GM working to balance 2022 roster and fix prior regime mistakes. Now, what to do with KG's contract and when.
2024 for KG.
Yeah, you'd think so. Will be very interesting to see how Schoen handles the KG/AJ situations come '23, '24.
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with a rebuilding team and a GM working to balance 2022 roster and fix prior regime mistakes. Now, what to do with KG's contract and when.
2024 for KG.
If he doesn't produce significantly I can see them cutting him after 2022... $6.8 million in cap savings even though there'd be over $14 million dead money.
We loaded up for a championship run last offseason. Hah.
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So is Schoen going to regret not drafting a CB in round 2? And if Wan Dale doesn't produce, its going to get ugly.
Schoen went into the draft knowing he was going to have a hole at CB, so I doubt it. There's no such thing as getting ugly this year. This year is for getting the financial house in order and seeing what he has with the players he brought on board or kept and I think most Giants fans know it.
Most rookie CB’s struggle heavily in year one anyways so either way you’re likely to have a liability at cb2 this year.
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either Andrew Booth or Kyler Gordon right about now...
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
Definitely a few head scratchers during the draft that I'd label as reaches, but at least they nailed the first round and hit some needs with prospects better on paper than the previous options.
They wanted McCreary but Tennessee took him at #35. They could have had either Gordon or Boothe at #38, but decided to trade down again anyway. The fact that they were willing to risk losing both for a fourth round pick shows that neither was likely rated that highly on their board. They also didn't take Flott until #81, not #67. So it sounds like their three top corners were Stingley, Gardner, and McCreary, with a big drop off after those players. They also did all this knowing that one way or another Bradberry would be gone. Maybe they like Aaron Robinson more than we know.
Which is why I don't understand some people wringing their hands over Bradbury.
He was never staying beyond this year, and even with him there are so many holes that this team was not going to challenge for anything. Does it make a difference if the team is 7 - 10 with Bradbury and 5 - 12 without? And I doubt that Bradbury would make even that much of a difference. It is far better to take the medicine now and free up space for the future when it will matter who the team keeps.
Also keep in mind, the Giants do not have as much space as it appears in 2023. They only have 30 players under contract right now... It is likely that about half of them will get cut before the 2023 year starts. The team needs to fill out more than 2/3 of the roster and as of now they only have $81M to do it... LW is scheduled to be a $26M hit, KG is a $21.4M hit and AJ is a $19.5M hit. Expect more blood letting next year!