Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
If they make it a post June 1st cut, they can't use the $ until after that. So, don't expect all draft picks to be signed until after June 1.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
haven't bought a jersey since 2005, Eli.
I'll get over it. I just don't have to like it. Was quietly hoping this D would be good this season. You only notice the corners when they are either really great or really bad. I hope we aren't really bad in 2022 because I'd like to see this team flirt with a winning record.
AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Not only that, some posters were convinced Schoen should take his time and trade him after the draft to negotiate a better pick with desperate teams. There was no hurry to take less before the Draft since the cap room wasn't needed yet was the logic used I recall.
Not a surprise so simply time to move on. Aaron Robinson was traded up for, he should get plenty of snaps now.
This season is mostly about seeing what the young guys on the roster can do, and especially the holdovers that the previous regime brought in. There are lots of them!
Young, inexpensive guys competing for roster spots that they could fill for several years. Maybe a few starters and the rest developmental depth. I like this direction, and think we will be building a solid foundation for years to come.
Here is the real rub .... Can Wink actually adjust?
He is on record saying he will call the games how he calls the games. Which is part of the reason he was let go. Also that and basically not playing with the game at times and not setting his guys up for success.
With Jackson* and and inexperience CB highly aggressive blizting might not be ideal. Now I hope we see a rebound in Jackson playing more press something he does better at.
*Disclaimer: Jackson has the ability to be a #1 CB IF he puts in the work comittment.
If Wink refuses to have more balance (conventional football wisdom) in his approach it is going to be a long season.
without looking at the books, but it's easy to cut everyone when the owner is scared shitless of losing anymore and likely welcomes a no pressure type season in 2022. Must be nice.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
you think the difference of competing and not competing is James Bradberry???
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
on top of that Schoen and Daboll are only linked to the guys they signed (which was stop gap vets) and there rookie draft class this year.
To suggest Schoen should restructure guys he had no business bringing in the first place to make it harder to move them down the road makes zero sense.
Its always best practice to rip the band aid off now. Its sucks no one wanted to trade for him. But at the end of the day we were probably only getting a day 3 pick anyway and it was most important to free up the cap space.
Cut Ximines soon to clear another $1 million in cap space. Trading/cutting Slayton would free up $2.5 million but I am curious to see how he performs in cap under a new staff. They might as well take him to camp, unless a team offers a pick for him, and see if he can return to his rookie form. If not then just release him at the end of camp.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Aaron Wilson
@AaronWilson_NFL
Texans were among teams the Giants spoke with about trade scenarios for James Bradberry, per league source. However, trade for possible later-round pick never consummated due to wide gap in money on potential long-term deal. Chiefs expected to continue to be a Bradberry suitor
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
thread is exhibit A at how Giants fans still have not come to grips with "we're rebuilding all over again."
When you start over, you start over.
Yup. People don't want to accept that we need yet another COMPLETE rebuild after McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge, with Reese and DG at the helm, but we do. That's how bad we are.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
So what if he goes to Washington or Philly? He was a good to very good player for the Giants during his time here and a reliable roster piece. I'm sure the coaches and front office would have loved to keep him and his talent around but they can't do that and actually rebuild the team the way that they envision. Far better to just deal with the pain and move on to the future. He can do what he pleases and I wish him the best wherever he goes.
seems worth every penny to me. He's never hurt and always productive. He's an impact player.
I don't have nearly the same love for Bradberry but I just feel like going from a pretty good corner to a pretty bad corner can sink the season before it even begins. I guess we will find out. Gotta make peace with it I guess.
Moving on...I refuse to punt this season away, damnit. Expect more. We need to dig out of this trench.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
So what if he goes to Washington or Philly? He was a good to very good player for the Giants during his time here and a reliable roster piece. I'm sure the coaches and front office would have loved to keep him and his talent around but they can't do that and actually rebuild the team the way that they envision. Far better to just deal with the pain and move on to the future. He can do what he pleases and I wish him the best wherever he goes.
chiefs or texans seem more likely. Both have 10m+ in effective cap space per wilson tweet i posted above.
the philly/wsh rumors were likely just bradberry's agents trying to leverage nyg.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
Agreed on Williams. Typically in a 3-4 you spend your money at edge in terms of front seven cost allocation. I was never a fan of the deal they gave him. However, it was only three years so at least they aren’t locked in for a long time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
either Andrew Booth or Kyler Gordon right about now...
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I just never understood the people that wanted to add void years
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
Look no offense djm, but if you are going to put up posts like you do on cap topics and act like a whiny kid who was told by his Mom he can't have a candy bar in the check-out aisle then expect replies like mine.
I don't have to convince you of anything. The last GM left the place a mess and this GM has to make some decisions you may not like to clean it up. If you think he doesn't have to then you come up with the alternative.
We're all ears.
I don't want to read all of this so if this was mentioned sorry
Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
RE: I don't want to read all of this so if this was mentioned sorry
Bradberry had ZERO guaranteed money left on his contract this year. So releasing him saves the Mara's over 11.4M real money dollars. Now that he's a free agent the team that signs him won't have to pay anything that was on his Giants contract. That's probably the biggest reason they couldn't trade him.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
You don't get it. Bradberry wasn't going to be long term here, nor should he have been. His cap number aside, he just isn't a guy you are committing to long term now, while building a roster.
leave it alone dude. I don't have to agree with you and sit here and offer up a 100000 word essay on the intricate and enigmatic details of cap mgmt. Unlike you I don't act like I know every detail. but what I do know is there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you can kick money down the road for the sake of today. Giants chose to NOT do that. I don't necessarily agree. Ok? Thanks.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: and starting over for them right now
means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
could have found a way to stay if he really wanted to be in NY. He clearly didn't want to be here. Can't really blame him for wanting to go somewhere with a better chance of winning, or just wanting to make his money.
leave it alone dude. I don't have to agree with you and sit here and offer up a 100000 word essay on the intricate and enigmatic details of cap mgmt. Unlike you I don't act like I know every detail. but what I do know is there's more than one way to skin a cat, and you can kick money down the road for the sake of today. Giants chose to NOT do that. I don't necessarily agree. Ok? Thanks.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
You want a new GM to start kicking money down the road while he tries to rebuild a 4 win team with no QB, very few core players and more bad contracts on the horizon. For James Bradberry who got lit up last year as our #1 CB and he wasn't even injured.
as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
It’s funny you mention that last point because I just had the same conversation with my brother yesterday. All of those wasted draft assets only to sign two free agents to be your starting corners. Possibly the ultimate lowlight of DG’s tenure.
Baker, Beal, Ballentine, Love, Holmes, Rodarius Williams. Love was converted to safety and is very likely entering his last season as a Giant, and Holmes is likely being replaced by Flott. Jury is out on Williams, but he’s coming off an ACL.
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
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If they make it a post June 1st cut, they can't use the $ until after that. So, don't expect all draft picks to be signed until after June 1.
Only the void year carryover would be impacted (~$1.36M) by a 6/1 designation. It probably only requires holding off on one of the picks until 6/1, or making some other corresponding move (Slayton?) in the meantime.
OK. Thanks for the info.
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no one has to like it. But I can't shake this feeling that Mara couldn't wait to take the cheap and easy way out and just allow Schoen to go scorched earth because why not? What does anyone have to lose if you basically sell the NYG fan base the bill of goods that "sorry guys but we had no money, it was all DG's fault, just hang in there for ONE MORE year while we purge the books for the 2nd time in 5 years and yea, sorry, but we're gonna suck balls in 2022 yet again and truly and seriously, we had no choice, those damn cap numbers"
Sorry...I am here to call bullshit. another fucking no show season because wahhhh DG spent all our money...
FOUR long term contracts. FOUR.
Not sure where you are coming from with this. He adn his contract had to go. I have ZERO attachment to players on a team that won 10 games over his two years here.. 10..
Maybe he owns a lot of current players's jerseys?...
haven't bought a jersey since 2005, Eli.
I'll get over it. I just don't have to like it. Was quietly hoping this D would be good this season. You only notice the corners when they are either really great or really bad. I hope we aren't really bad in 2022 because I'd like to see this team flirt with a winning record.
Fucking amazing.
It's another symptom in a failed collection of football ops individuals, unfortunately it begins with the top dude.
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AND pay Bradbury $13 Million. Schoen made every effort to get some thing back but there were no takers. It will be interesting to see how much Bradbury signs for.
Yeah - I never quite understood why people thought it wouldn't be hard for Schoen to trade him.
Not only that, some posters were convinced Schoen should take his time and trade him after the draft to negotiate a better pick with desperate teams. There was no hurry to take less before the Draft since the cap room wasn't needed yet was the logic used I recall.
That sure went over well.
This season is mostly about seeing what the young guys on the roster can do, and especially the holdovers that the previous regime brought in. There are lots of them!
Young, inexpensive guys competing for roster spots that they could fill for several years. Maybe a few starters and the rest developmental depth. I like this direction, and think we will be building a solid foundation for years to come.
With Jackson* and and inexperience CB highly aggressive blizting might not be ideal. Now I hope we see a rebound in Jackson playing more press something he does better at.
*Disclaimer: Jackson has the ability to be a #1 CB IF he puts in the work comittment.
If Wink refuses to have more balance (conventional football wisdom) in his approach it is going to be a long season.
No pressure...until everyone is on notice in 2023. Might as well hibernate.
you think the difference of competing and not competing is James Bradberry???
When you start over, you start over.
Fucking amazing.
So now we want John Mara signing off on deals and involving himself more into football operations?
Which is it guys?
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
When you start over, you start over.
on top of that Schoen and Daboll are only linked to the guys they signed (which was stop gap vets) and there rookie draft class this year.
To suggest Schoen should restructure guys he had no business bringing in the first place to make it harder to move them down the road makes zero sense.
Its always best practice to rip the band aid off now. Its sucks no one wanted to trade for him. But at the end of the day we were probably only getting a day 3 pick anyway and it was most important to free up the cap space.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
@AaronWilson_NFL
Texans were among teams the Giants spoke with about trade scenarios for James Bradberry, per league source. However, trade for possible later-round pick never consummated due to wide gap in money on potential long-term deal. Chiefs expected to continue to be a Bradberry suitor
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@ZackBlatt
The #Giants should be at around $16.3M in cap space after this. Need around $12.8M to sign rookie class.
Will need more space for in-season moves/practice squad and to fill out the depth chart.
Likely aren’t done clearing space, tho this is probably the last major subtraction.
I wonder if Slayton is next. Not now, but maybe at the end of camp if he doesn't "wow" the coaches. Cutting him saves $2.5M.
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
This is a standard release, per source.
When you start over, you start over.
Yup. People don't want to accept that we need yet another COMPLETE rebuild after McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge, with Reese and DG at the helm, but we do. That's how bad we are.
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
I don't have nearly the same love for Bradberry but I just feel like going from a pretty good corner to a pretty bad corner can sink the season before it even begins. I guess we will find out. Gotta make peace with it I guess.
Moving on...I refuse to punt this season away, damnit. Expect more. We need to dig out of this trench.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
chiefs or texans seem more likely. Both have 10m+ in effective cap space per wilson tweet i posted above.
the philly/wsh rumors were likely just bradberry's agents trying to leverage nyg.
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@DDuggan21
Replying to @DDuggan21
This is a standard release, per source.
makes sense they want to start getting there rookies in the building asap. 1 MM isn't going to make a major difference being a post june 1 date.
But this month is vital to get the rookies up to speed.
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concerns about this unit again? Does the DB unit become Shoen's saga? We totally ignored it knowing we would have to release our CB1.
Didn't we just use a third round pick on a CB?
He's going to start week 1?
Plus he’s a slot corner, just like Holmes. We’re very thin on the outside.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
You forgot Tate lol.
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
Agreed on Williams. Typically in a 3-4 you spend your money at edge in terms of front seven cost allocation. I was never a fan of the deal they gave him. However, it was only three years so at least they aren’t locked in for a long time.
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
DG gave out a whole bunch of really bad contracts.
Leo.
Golladay.
Bradberry.
Shepard.
Stewart.
Omameh.
Solder.
He also made a whole bunch of terrible trades (Price, Bredeson, Ogletree).
You forgot Tate lol.
You're right. And Jackson is another. There were so many, I just couldn't remember them all.
And let's face it, Gettleman is just another in the long line of excuses for this team. The problem clearly remains in the building. As far as I can tell, other than the blindingly obvious picks of Thibs and Neal, the decision making continues to be perplexing at best and idiotic at worst....
Good stuff. Keep truckin.
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
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this was the only scenario if there was no trade.
Why hurt years where we hopefully will be competing to just worry about this year (when we aren't a playoff team).
we'll see about that.
I mean lets be realistic for a second. Maybe they can surprise...but that is not what next year is about.
Why? I'm sorry if I can't sit here and celebrate a move that will likely lead to 2-3 losses in and of itself. I am a paying customer. This team has 4 fucking long term contracts. Williams, MArtinez, Golladay and Jackson. Somehow we need to free up even more room. Ok.
I have to accept it. I have to live with it. But I don't have to fucking like it and I sure as hell don't have to correlate this move with future success. Been there. Done that.
I guess I look for moral victories in 2022? Was told that's the loser's lament, right here.
Whatever. There is NO pressure on anyone right now except Daniel Jones. Everyone else at MAra Tech has a free ride to a sure fire top 5 pick in the 2023 draft.
No pressure. No one has to win. Sounds fun.
What is the moaning and groaning about...the cap has to be met and this release is how to do it.
Unless of course you want to keep restructuring other contracts and punt the pain some more into future? Do you have another idea how to make this work?
I'm fucking exhausted with this reasons why. The excuses. The money. Fucking save it.
When my team sucks balls for 10 years I don't wanna here it's the money. Lie to me.
You got the best of both worlds with Gettleman though. The team sucked balls AND spent up to the cap and more when you count restructuring deals into the future to fund overpays for players.
I don't know how many threads you want to take this stance that the cap doesn't matter and you can sign anyone. But today is an example of a day when you have to pay the piper.
OK except I never ever said the cap doesn't matter.
I said the cap can be manipulated and it's more about long term whopper contracts (we have 2 lol) but ok...we had to pay the piper. I guess signing nothing but bargain basement average vet types in FA wasn't paying the piper enough?
Time to Suck it up I guess.
I am going to keep adding onto this post because you just can't seem to get it.
Are you now suggesting that with only 2 large contracts (not sure who the 2 are but I don't really care), the Giants are lying about their cap space and actually have plenty of room to operate and sign better players? That this is some kind of ruse they are playing with us fans and no one is really making much money on the team?
Please share this wisdom you have on player salaries.
Oh stop I didn't say they are lying.
I said you and nearly everyone else here who thinks they know the cap and all its intricate details, don't. And neither do I.
I don't think the Giants are that bogged down, long term by the cap at all. matter of fact i'd bet my life on it because I know long term cap hell....this ain't it. This is short term cap hell or problems.
Move on. I said my peace. you have to convince me or reinvent the wheel and explain 1+1 = 2. I get it. I just don't like it and I have no doubts the Giants could have kept him and not completely fucked the books for 23 and beyond. But they chose not to. Fine. I don't like it.
Look no offense djm, but if you are going to put up posts like you do on cap topics and act like a whiny kid who was told by his Mom he can't have a candy bar in the check-out aisle then expect replies like mine.
I don't have to convince you of anything. The last GM left the place a mess and this GM has to make some decisions you may not like to clean it up. If you think he doesn't have to then you come up with the alternative.
We're all ears.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
The Giants cap issues are paper money not real money. At quick glance the Giants owe their full current roster about 80M in guaranteed real dollars for 2022. Of course they'll have to pay the players on the roster who don't have guaranteed money for 2022. But it would be difficult to screw up the NFL salary cap more than Gettleman and Abrams did.
No guaranteed money for this year?
Have you considered trying to get a post correct one of these times?
+1. You pay that to an explosive edge in a 3-4, not a DE.
They didn't have to do this. There were other methods they chose not to utilize. They chose to take the most direct route to cap nirvana they could find.
I don't have to like this move. And I can speculate that there are other ways to handle the cap constraints here other than cutting the best corner on the team and a guy who is under 30.
Again, I GET THE CAP. Save me the pontifications.
You don't get it. Bradberry wasn't going to be long term here, nor should he have been. His cap number aside, he just isn't a guy you are committing to long term now, while building a roster.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
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In comment 15703286 JonC said:
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In comment 15703273 mphbullet36 said:
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In comment 15703266 JonC said:
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means a number of contracts stick for another year before they can be removed, more changes coming for certain. This is why drafting is so vital, and drafting for need is something to be careful with until you have a roster that can actually win football games.
correct Golladay and Leonard Williams will be on the chopping block next year. Along with Barkley and Jones (even though they are technically expiring contracts).
The team could loook totally different in another year as Schoen continues to overhaul the worst roster in the NFL.
Yep. I would really like to retain Leo but the associated contract cost now is just ridiculous and only going to get worse. To me, spending big open market dollars on a 3-4 DE goes against some of the build cost principles of a 3-4 in the first place. But, get off my lawn, I guess is where this goes. Interested to see if they keep Leo around, but the rest are likely goners.
He's simply overpaid. Many of you need to come to grips that many NY Giant players aren't worth it and Leonard Williams certainly is not. It's not good enough to be one of the best players on the team if it still means you are overpaid and at a position that doesn't justify it either. Foolish spending for a 4 win team.
I'm not of the "you", lol, I railed against giving Leo more than $15M per at the time and still dislike the contract. I'm also one of the biggest shouters of reality here wrt to the stink of this product. My football fan side still appreciates the player and would prefer to keep him around, but I've acknowledged often it's probably not going to happen, given the new regime and a likely different allocation structure. All good.
Yes but can't have it both ways. Negotiations clearly had reached levels beyond LW's worth and not sure you were suggesting walking away, only a few folks were. Though if that was your view then all good on this one.
Yippee.
Enjoy.
There's a distinction between the two.
Been watching the NFL and the salary cap nonsense since it came to be. I get it just fine.
The Giants chose to suck more now rather than pay more later. I don't have to agree with that.
If Schoen is as good as 90% of this board thinks, we will be just fine in 2023. Pray that's the case.
Don't need to be a smart ass.
You want a new GM to start kicking money down the road while he tries to rebuild a 4 win team with no QB, very few core players and more bad contracts on the horizon. For James Bradberry who got lit up last year as our #1 CB and he wasn't even injured.
You have to do better than this.
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as much. It’s only three years if I remember correctly and with Bradberry gone they’ll need his experience.
I'm fine they restructured Jackson, but DG signing him to that original contract was a mistake. The signing also came after DG had signed Bradberry and spent about two drafts worth of picks on DBs, mostly CBs. All those draft picks and our two starting CBs were expensive FA signings.
It’s funny you mention that last point because I just had the same conversation with my brother yesterday. All of those wasted draft assets only to sign two free agents to be your starting corners. Possibly the ultimate lowlight of DG’s tenure.
Baker, Beal, Ballentine, Love, Holmes, Rodarius Williams. Love was converted to safety and is very likely entering his last season as a Giant, and Holmes is likely being replaced by Flott. Jury is out on Williams, but he’s coming off an ACL.